the prop pitch of the 109 has only 3 positions now

[raaaid]

its this normal?

[JG53Frankyboy]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=22549

[JG52Krupi]

I flew for the first time last night since the new patch and it felt like someone had replaced the 109 engine with a lawnmower wtf is that about bring back the old pitch control ffs

[skouras]

is the way that it works during BOB

[Winger]

its this normal?

Not just 3 Positions. Only a diffrent way of steering the pitchchange.

Neutral position of the lever means the pitch stays as currently is.

If you push the lever up the pitch get finer (increasing revs). The lever has a spring centering. So once you let it go it returns to centerposition and the pitch remains as fine as it has gotten until then.
If you push the lever down the pitch gets more coarse (decreasing revs). And again if you let it go the pitch remains where it is.

It has only 3 positions if you put it to an analog axis. You have to think of that. I put it to a switch that has auto centering on my throttle. A coolie hat works best for that purpose.

Winger

PS: If i mixed something up feel free to correct me.

[DB605]

Look at the topic in jg53frankyboys link. Short quote from kurfurst:

"In short what needs to be fixed:

1, (re-)Adding a fully featherable propellor and key binding for it on the 109E series, plus graphical rework of the dashboard prop pitch lever.
2, Fixing the propellor pitch speed change which became abnormally low."

[Gollum]

Look at the topic in jg53frankyboys link. Short quote from kurfurst:

"In short what needs to be fixed:

1, (re-)Adding a fully featherable propellor and key binding for it on the 109E series, plus graphical rework of the dashboard prop pitch lever.
2, Fixing the propellor pitch speed change which became abnormally low."

anyone also have a problem that the 109 prop pitch control (axis) is reveresed as opposed to the spitfire? I tried re assigning these controls but still cant get 109 and spitfire to work the same direction.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Look at the topic in jg53frankyboys link. Short quote from kurfurst:

"In short what needs to be fixed:

1, (re-)Adding a fully featherable propellor and key binding for it on the 109E series, plus graphical rework of the dashboard prop pitch lever.
2, Fixing the propellor pitch speed change which became abnormally low."

I agree with the last point. It has absolutely to be fixed urgently. I now am used to the new prop pitch mechanics but I just cannot get it to the rpms I happily flew with before. It always is too low. I very often have to wind up to 12:00 in order to get any rpm increase despite being quite fast.
I don't understand: something is fixed on the 109 there and in return something else is porked instead.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Doing some tests I have the impression that the current process for 109 prop pitch as implemented is:

Set prop pitch (taking too much time)
then prop pitch slowly sets in.

My guess is that by accident the prop pitch angle rate was mirrored to the clock that is: setting it to a certain position now takes as much as realizing that amount of delta prop pitch. Thus the realization of a certain prop pitch takes more time than it should. Setting it should be much quicker, realization should be like it had been but working in parallel. It should start moving the blades the moment I change prop pitch. But whereas I have very quickly the prop pitch clock set to where I want it the real prop pitch will lag behind like it did before patch.

Anyone sharing this observation?

[Khamsin]

anyone also have a problem that the 109 prop pitch control (axis) is reveresed as opposed to the spitfire? I tried re assigning these controls but still cant get 109 and spitfire to work the same direction.

Yup, its a bug .... needs fixin'

[ATAG_Doc]

What does feathering do? I see it as a bind one can use but I don't know what it does

And yes mine is backwards as well. I liked the old one.

[Strike]

If I understand your question correctly; What is prop feather? The answer is you turn the blades so that the propeller blade airfoil chord is paralell to the airstream, they produce the minimal amount of drag possible, and prevents the propeller windmilling. Picture this: you hold your hand flat out of the window of a moving car, if you hold your hand vertically, you will feel the force of the drag very well, but if you tilt your hand so it's horizontal, there's a lot less drag.

That is what prop feathering does to your propellers. You adjust the blades angle to produce the minimum amount of drag possible. Typically used for gliding after engine loss, or generally on multi-engine aircraft to lessen drag caused by an engine loss.

In modern day airplanes, often the engines start with the prop in feathered position to avoid creating thrust.

In german I believe the prop-pitch panel is marked "Segel-something" and means "Sailplane" mode sortof and intended for gliding incase of an engine stop.

[Redroach]

I love how the change in the PP setting mode (why was it changed anyway? Is the change to the current method historically correct?) spawned one major bug and at least two awkward-feeling issues - PP setting the other way around and being waay too slow. Talk about development cycles :rolleyes:
Who is that guy luthier talked about *doing bad things to him* ? :eek:

On a side note: the PP slider having 3 positions for actuating in both directions and leaving it alone may properly represent things now, but it really shouldn't be that way on the 109's water radiator slider. I mean, you use the crank to change it and there is nothing which snaps back to neutral or something. The slider should show the water rad's position, as it currently does on the oil radiator slider.

[Strike]

...it really shouldn't be that way on the 109's water radiator slider. I mean, you use the crank to change it and there is nothing which snaps back to neutral or something. The slider should show the water rad's position, as it currently does on the oil radiator slider....

+1 This makes no sense. Probably an overlooked GUI design flaw...

[VO101_Tom]

I love how the change in the PP setting mode (why was it changed anyway? Is the change to the current method historically correct?) spawned one major bug and at least two awkward-feeling issues - PP setting the other way around and being waay too slow. Talk about development cycles :rolleyes:
Who is that guy luthier talked about *doing bad things to him* ? :eek:

On a side note: the PP slider having 3 positions for actuating in both directions and leaving it alone may properly represent things now, but it really shouldn't be that way on the 109's water radiator slider. I mean, you use the crank to change it and there is nothing which snaps back to neutral or something. The slider should show the water rad's position, as it currently does on the oil radiator slider.

This method historically correct, except that the switch has four positions, not three (feather mode is missing now), and 1°-1.5°/second should be its velocity, not 0,3°/s. The speed was good before the hotfix, i don't know what happened.

The small icons (engine info window) signal it only, what you know without it being necessary to look down onto the panels. Your hand on the gas arm, you feel it what his position. Oil radioator is the same. As opposed to these, the water radiator arm you don't know, even if you grab it (it may turn two and quarter times round.). It is necessary to look out onto the wing, the indicator what shows.
The new Prop pitch method causes the same one. The position of the switch does not reveal the accurate value, you must to look at the instrument.

[ATAG_Doc]

Thank you everyone! Very informative and very interesting.

[IvanK]

Quick fix. Reverse your current keybindings for Increase Prop Pitch and Decrease Prop pitch.
Save as a new profile. When you fly the 109 or 110 load this profile. For all other types then load your default profile. Doing this all looks and behaves the same.

Profiles can be loaded on the fly.

[Blackdog_kt]

Doing some tests I have the impression that the current process for 109 prop pitch as implemented is:

Set prop pitch (taking too much time)
then prop pitch slowly sets in.

My guess is that by accident the prop pitch angle rate was mirrored to the clock that is: setting it to a certain position now takes as much as realizing that amount of delta prop pitch. Thus the realization of a certain prop pitch takes more time than it should. Setting it should be much quicker, realization should be like it had been but working in parallel. It should start moving the blades the moment I change prop pitch. But whereas I have very quickly the prop pitch clock set to where I want it the real prop pitch will lag behind like it did before patch.

Anyone sharing this observation?

I'm getting the same RPMs as before the patch for each combination of power/airspeed/prop pitch, it just takes much longer to change the pitch.

I think the clock is not for selecting a desired setting to which the prop will catch up, to me it seems the clock just tells you what the actual setting is currently. At least that's the way it works on my end.

Kurfurst's recommendations are good. Adding a feathering lock and making the pitch change match a historically correct rate of degrees of pitch change per second, along with correcting the reversal of the controls, would pretty much fix it once and for all.

[Tiger27]

anyone also have a problem that the 109 prop pitch control (axis) is reveresed as opposed to the spitfire? I tried re assigning these controls but still cant get 109 and spitfire to work the same direction.

Yeh they have fixed the cockpit animation of the switch, so up is now fine etc, but they seem to have forgotten to match the joystick movement to this change, so lever back for me is coarse in a spit and spit lever goes back, but same control movement gives fine pitch in a 109, and is reverse to what you see animated.

[Tiger27]

I'm getting the same RPMs as before the patch for each combination of power/airspeed/prop pitch, it just takes much longer to change the pitch.

I think the clock is not for selecting a desired setting to which the prop will catch up, to me it seems the clock just tells you what the actual setting is currently. At least that's the way it works on my end.

Kurfurst's recommendations are good. Adding a feathering lock and making the pitch change match a historically correct rate of degrees of pitch change per second, along with correcting the reversal of the controls, would pretty much fix it once and for all.

Yeh, I have no idea how fast it should go, but it makes it hard to keep your energy up in a DF, as you cant change pitch fast enough now by the time you have it set for a climb your in a dive etc, other than the speed if its wrong and the reversed controls its great, as you say fix those two issues and it's another issue of the long list of issues they are working on.

[VO101_Tom]

Yeh, I have no idea how fast it should go...
1 hour (6°) should be 6 or 4 seconds. (1° or 1.5° PP / second). Now it takes 16-17 sec (~0.3°/sec PP)

[Winger]

I agree with the last point. It has absolutely to be fixed urgently. I now am used to the new prop pitch mechanics but I just cannot get it to the rpms I happily flew with before. It always is too low. I very often have to wind up to 12:00 in order to get any rpm increase despite being quite fast.
I don't understand: something is fixed on the 109 there and in return something else is porked instead.

+1 Needs urget fixing. And especially since its an easy fix that only needs some variables changed i believe. Having the correct pitch for current airspeed is at the moment close to impossible since the pitch changes much too slow.

Winger

[xnomad]

Doing some tests I have the impression that the current process for 109 prop pitch as implemented is:

Set prop pitch (taking too much time)
then prop pitch slowly sets in.

My guess is that by accident the prop pitch angle rate was mirrored to the clock that is: setting it to a certain position now takes as much as realizing that amount of delta prop pitch. Thus the realization of a certain prop pitch takes more time than it should. Setting it should be much quicker, realization should be like it had been but working in parallel. It should start moving the blades the moment I change prop pitch. But whereas I have very quickly the prop pitch clock set to where I want it the real prop pitch will lag behind like it did before patch.

Anyone sharing this observation?

I am pretty certain that between the last patch and the hotfix, it was working perfectly and the speed the pitch changed seemed spot on. The hotfix then corrected the direction and centreing but also killed the speed.

You can't boom and zoom with Spits now, you are either over revving or under-revving as it takes too long to adjust.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Are there hints that the devs are working on this issue and some solution will turn up soon?

[Redroach]

I am pretty certain that between the last patch and the hotfix, it was working perfectly and the speed the pitch changed seemed spot on. The hotfix then corrected the direction and centreing but also killed the speed.


And this is what's completely eluding me, concerning their development methods... I mean the newest patch/game build had to be fired up only once to test the Bf 109 and it would have been glaringly obvious. That's how each and everyone of us found out as well - within the first 2 minutes in the cockpit of the 109 (CEM on and such)...
It's a strange, strange world.

[raaaid]

theres a conspiracy to make the spit uber in all sims

actually the spit turns better than the 109 if both pilots are unexperienced

in case of experten the 109 out turns the spit
:-P the spit is easier to handle:-Pthe 109 performs better:-P

[Ze-Jamz]

theres a conspiracy to make the spit uber in all sims

actually the spit turns better than the 109 if both pilots are unexperienced

in case of experten the 109 out turns the spit
:-P the spit is easier to handle:-Pthe 109 performs better:-P

LOL trust me mate the SPit is far from 'Uber' in this Sim ;)

If the Spit in game performed as it should the 109 will NOT out turn it, not in this life or another :)

In a stall fight with slats extended Yes the spit would fall out the sky..But if your saying a spit and a 109 turning generally with both pilots equal experience in the cockpits...id have to disagree with your statement

In game now i would agree however due to the Spit1/1a not having the correct power to maintain airspeed/airflow over the wings

[Ze-Jamz]

Definitely alot harder to use BnZ tactics now with the PP as it is..As said already it takes too long to adjust so keeping optimal performance is very tricky now in the 109

[raaaid]

i would say out of nothing so i would take my opinion as drunken nonsense:

the 109 burns energy to 220kph

the spit burns energy to 260kph

on a turn

so inesperince dogfight the spit will win for turning a optimum speed while 109 didn know more is less

but an expert will keep at an ideal turning speed and defeat the spit

do you really think a spit would beat an f16 in a dogfight?

well take it for a climbing spiral

you can do that with the spit ii now

hell why do people still fly 109 on aeroquake when they can be uber?

hero worship?

well they are heros after all when spits dominate the virtual skies the dark powers of the world will have impose their view on this matter

well just to understand this people im going to aeroquaeke and take a 109 :)

[Ze-Jamz]

i would say out of nothing so i would take my opinion as drunken nonsense:

the 109 burns energy to 220kph

the spit burns energy to 260kph

on a turn

so inesperince dogfight the spit will win for turning a optimum speed while 109 didn know more is less

but an expert will keep at an ideal turning speed and defeat the spit

do you really think a spit would beat an f16 in a dogfight?

well take it for a climbing spiral

you can do that with the spit ii now

hell why do people still fly 109 on aeroquake when they can be uber?

hero worship?

well they are heros after all when spits dominate the virtual skies the dark powers of the world will have impose their view on this matter

well just to understand this people im going to aeroquaeke and take a 109 :)

And an expert in a spit would know when to use flaps and where/how much trim to use..I think a 'more' experienced 109 pilot would maybe out turn a Spit using your method of course but that wasnt what your orig point was.. :)

People still fly the 109 in the quake server because most people that fly the 109 dont like the Spit...The K/D from the more experienced 109 pilots has reduced alot since they introduced the SpitII as well as i see some pilots who usually fly 109's in SpitII's..

The match up evens out because the the Spit has the correct Power..not so easy to outclimb or extend for the 109 pilots especially with the PP how it is

go and HF :)

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Could we please put the 109vsspit discussion into another thread and stick to topic which is the porked prop pitch of the 109.

[raaaid]

well just tried it and its not so bad, the pitch

[Pluto]

...looks like every patch that is released in order to fix something, also screws up something that was working all right before.

So there will be another patch that fixes what the previous patch has f.....-up.
That new patch then will of course alo f....-up something else that has worked so far ok. So we will need another patch to fix that again
and so on and on and on, ....
Nice way to drive someone into madness,....
:twisted:

[Tiger27]

Definitely alot harder to use BnZ tactics now with the PP as it is..As said already it takes too long to adjust so keeping optimal performance is very tricky now in the 109

As it is you can adjust for the dive but then your pitch is wrong for the pullout and there is know way to adjust it quickly enough, it is annoying as it seemed right before the hotfix apart from the visuals and as Redroach said how hard would it have been to test this, I mean it is not hardware specific, it's wrong for everyone, they really need to shake up there QA, and patch management, otherwise they are just wasting there time fixing the fixes.