EXPENSIVE v1.2 - New challenging mod for WoTN-Ice and Fire

[jorko80]

Mod "Expensive" - version 1.2.

For Warriors of the north: Ice and Fire build 6263 v.1.3.1 GoG version(it should work on Steam version too).

The mod is made with the idea of making the game harder. It is inspired by a mod called Grossmaster, made by Antiboss for KB-The legend and Crossworlds(regrettably only in russian).
For all the changes to take effect, it is needed to start a new game.

The installation of the mod is a bit tricky, but this way it reduces the size of the content to 300MB, otherwise it's over 4GB
For mod installation :
1. Copy your Ice_and_Fire folder, which by default is in your "game folder"\sessions\ and store it in a place to keep it safe. Then delete it from the game folder.
2. Copy the loc_ses.kfs and ses.kfs, which by default are in your "game folder"\sessions\addon store them in a place to keep them safe. Then delete them from the game folder.
3. Extract the Ice_and_Fire folder from expensive.zip to your "game folder"\sessions\.
4. Extract the loc_ses.kfs and ses.kfs from expensive.zip to your "game folder"\sessions\addon.

To uninstall the mod :
1. Delete the folder Ice and Fire from your "game folder"\sessions\.
2 Delete the loc_ses.kfs and ses.kfs from your "game folder"\sessions\addon
3. Use the original "ice_and_fire" folder and loc_ses.kfs and ses.kfs, which you earlier copied in a safe location and put them in their respective folders.


Some of the main changes in the mod :
-Raised difficulty(not only with the bigger enemy numbers ,but also through balance changes)
-6 new creatures (5 for all , 1 just for the enemy-it may appear randomly in some places,but it's ultra expensive, still it can be bought) - Fire Skeleton, Skeleton Warrior, Celestial Snake, Maelstrom, Sinister(for the enemy).
***Originally these 5 creatures are designed by Nemesis, mod - "Legendary warriors". I think the mod is no longer available. I have balanced and changed many skills and abilities .
-Blue Dragon - neutral, level 5.
***Original design by MattCaspermaeyer, mod - "Heroes of might and magic 3 babies". I have changed the skills,abilities and some animations of the creature.
-Gold plays a big role in the game now. It is not easy to acquire it.
-Islands of freedom are removed from play(the game is pretty long anyway, there are plenty of old places to revisit from The Legend and the Islands of freedom brake the balance in the mid game).
-Getting to the elf island - Merlassar is not easy.
-Changed many skills, medals,spells,artifacts,locations,some enemy heroes,creatures and bosses.
-Some of the creatures get new skills and are made more usable.
-Only the mage hero can restore up to 8 mana per round.
-Creatures level 5 are considered special and they are really expensive.
-Reduced the number of fights throughout the game by around 25(not counting those in the Islands of freedom).

The game was tested 4 times only on impossible with all 3 types of heroes, it is quite hard at some points, definitely not for newbies.
I've made the mod originally in russian and now there maybe some things left not translated, if you encounter such bugs, please write in this thread.

Download link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cTLylD-baNcEP-ykXyAFCdp3thmCmr8I

Full list of changes:

1. Difficulty levels:
* Easy: enemy strength 100%, power/health bosses 100%/100%, gold income 100%, valkyries experience 200%, Rage income in battle 200%, Mana income/Rage decreasing on the map 200%, compensation for losses in battle 20%.
* Normal: enemy strength 160%, power/health bosses 130%/150%, gold income 50%, valkyries experience 100%, Rage income in battle 100%, Mana income/Rage decreasing on the map 100%, compensation for losses in battle 10%.
* Hard: enemy strength 240%, power/health bosses 180%/220%, gold income 25%, valkyries experience 85%, Rage income in battle 85%, Mana income/Rage decreasing on the map 80%, compensation for losses in battle - none.
* Impossible: enemy strength 330%, power/health bosses 250%/300%, gold income 10%, valkyries experience 70%, Rage income in battle 70%, Mana income/Rage decreasing on the map 50%, compensation for losses in battle - none.


2. Game mechanics
*Changed the description of the power of the enemy armies:
Compared power <0,8 - very weak.
Compared power 0,8 - 1,2 - weak.
Compared power 1,2 - 1,5 - weaker.
Compared power 1,5 - 2,0 - equal.
Compared power 2,0 - 2,5 - stronger.
Compared power 2,5 - 3,0 - strong.
Compared power 3,0 - 4,0 - very strong.
Compared power 4,0 - 5,5 - deadly.
Compared power >5,5 - invincible.
*When doing damage, the limit of maximum 60 difference between attack and defense is removed.
*The maximum difference between the creature ranks of the player and the enemy is up to 9 (was 1)
*When ranking up, the creatures don't reload their abilities.
*Archers can receive a speed increase when leveling up.
*Reduced damage from burning,poisoning and freezing.
*Valkyries acquire experience 2 times slower.
*Increased experience needed for creatures to get ranks 6 to 10.
*The speed increase can start at creature rank 8.
*Maximal rank of enemy creatures in hard mode is 9.
*Some creatures have slightly reduced rank, depending on the location.
*The paladin hero can use up to 2 artifacts (was 1)
*The mage hero can use up to 2 regalia (was 1)
*Speed up of some valkyrie animations

3. Skills:

-Magic skills

* Creation - duration of the spells and effects +0/0/1 (was 0/1/2)
* Concentration restores +2/3/4 mana per round (was 2/4/8 ), reduced price.
* Soothsayer gives +1/3/5 intellect (was 2/4/6 ) , mana +4/8/12 (was 7/14/21), magic resistance +3/5/8% (was 4/7/10)
* Meditation +2/4/6 mana (was 4/8/12)
* Wisdom +4/8/12 mana (was 6/12/18 )
* Hi magic allows the hero to use 2 spells per round 1/2/3 times per fight (was 2/4/6 ).
* Alchemy reduces the crystals needed to learn spells to 10/20/40% (was 15/30/50%). Restores 1/2/4 mana per round. Increased price.
* Transmutation gives 2/3/4 mana (was 4/7/10). For killed allies : 3/5/7 mana (was 8/14/20). For summoned (enemies and allies) 1/1/2 mana.
* Artefactor works just on artifacts level 1/2/3 (was 3/4/5), artifacts level 4-5 cannot be destroyed precisely. Gives +1/2/3 mana(was 2/4/6 ).

-Spirit skills

* Favorite of the gods - probability to return 10/15/20% from the received damage to the enemy is 5/10/15% (was 10/10/10 , 10/15/20).
* Diplomacy - join up to 3/6/9% creatures (was 3/6/10). Joining an enemy army is only possible if there are enough creatures, luck factor is removed.
* Diversion - 4/8/12%(was 10/20/30).
* Sense Weakness - increases probability of critical hit to 2/3/5% (was 3/5/7%). Evade critical hit is 4/8/12% (was 3/5/7%).
* Warriors of Valhalla brings back 25/35/50% dead creatures (was 50/70/90%).

-Power skills

* Runic power - damage from rage skills for every unused rune +10/20/30%(was 20/40/60), probability to use rage skill 2nd time for the round +0.5/0.5/0.5% for every unused rune(was 1/2/3), maximum 3/6/9%(was 20/40/60).
* Absolute rage - probability to receive a bonus attack 10/20/30%(was 10/25/50), critical hit damage +10/20/30(was 10/25/50)
* Blood lust - gives rage +2/4/8(was 5/10/15)
* Arctic rage - probability for critical hit with rage skills 3/6/10%(was 3/5/7).
* Rage shield - Probability to remove a negative effect 5/10/15%(was 10/20/30).
* Berserk - prob. for double damage 3/4/6%(was 5/10/15).
* Anger - gives +10/25/45% rage income in fights(was 20/40/60), for every hit +1/1/2(was 1/2/3). Increased price.
* Steadfast norse - damage from spells -3/6/10% (was -10/10/20).
* Onslaught gives +2/4/6 rage(was 5/8/10), distributes 10/15/20 adrenaline between orcs.
* Rage control gives +4/9/14 rage(was 8/16/24), adrenaline +10/15/20(was 10/20/30).
* Frenzy gives +1/2/4 Attack (was +2/4/6).
* Endurance gives +1/2/5 Defense (was 1/3/5).
* Heroism gives +1/2/5 Attack (was 1/3/6).
* Quick Draw - gives archers +3/5/7 attack and 0/1/2 initiative.

4. Medals:
* Treasure hunter + 1/2/3/5/7% exp. (was 2/4/6/8/10%).
* Dragon killer : +2/5/9/14/20% attack vs dragons (was 5/10/15/20/30%).
* Blind rage: critical hit +1/2/3/4/6 (was 1/2/4/7/10) .
* Trap medal: needed kills 10/30/60/120/200 (was 10/50/100/200/350), traps always appear 2 hexes away from the enemy (was 2-4).
* Head hunter : +3/5/7/10/15 rage vs enemy hero (was 3/6/10/15/20).
* Iron knight gives 2/5/8/11/15 rage (was 3/6/10/15/20), needs 20/70/120/200/300 (was 20/70/150/250/400).
* Guardian angel gives +2/3/5/7/10% resistance to all damage (was 2/4/6/9/12), needs 30/100/250/400/600 (was 30/80/150/300/500).
* Vampire hunter gives +1/2/3/4/5 attack (was 1/2/3/5/8 ).
* Undead hunter gives +1/2/3/4/5 defense (was 1/2/3/5/8 ).
* Fat Cat +10/20/30/40/50% gold for a fight (was 2/5/7/10/15), needs 50000/120000/200000/350000/550000 (was 100000,500000,1000000,2500000,5000000).

5. Locations:
* Kreiston mines - all dwarven armies are neutral.
* New Kordar - Removed the respawning of some undead armies after main quest is accomplished.
* Grontland - Reduced the fights by 5.
* Merlasar cannot be accessed from Isterring.
* Islands of freedom removed.
* Enemy armies in the cave of Vestlig are a bit stronger.
* Merlassar - enemy armies are a bit stronger. Dragon cave - some dragons removed from appearing. Drinren army slightly stronger.
* Map for Ice Gardens can not be acquired without a fight.
* Cave of secrets - reduced number of fights by 5,gold income from fights reduced, some bonuses removed.
* Island cave - reduced number of fights by 4, some bonuses removed.
* Arlania 2 - gold income from fights reduced.
* Hades - gold income from fights reduced, some bonuses removed, reduced number of fights by 5.
* Morshan swamps - gold income from fights reduced.
* Verlon wasteland - dragon cave - increased strength of guarding army.
* Ice gardens - gold income from fights reduced. Dragon cave - added one more type of dragon to appear.
* Demonis - gold income from fights reduced.


5. Artifacts and objects


- Silver Chain Mail - does not give mana.
- Eggs of level5 creatures are just for selling. Price is reduced.
- Celestial boots give 2 mana and rage (was 10).
- Iron will necklace can give 1 scroll hypnotize.
- Rage and Mana potions - price 3000.
- Mage Belt gives +1 mana per round(was 2).
- Bracers of power gives +2 Intellect instead of +1 mana per round.
- Dragonslayer shield reduces dragon's damage by 10%.
- Dragonslayer sword gives +10% damage vs dragons.
- Rekross Shield - reduces dragon's attack by 15%.
- Dragon eye - reduces dragon's attack by 20%.
- Odin's banner - gives +15% attack (was +20%).
- Raven Rind - does not give any rage or mana.
- Banner of true faith - gives additionally +4 defense
- Metamorphic axel - price 300 000(was 200 000) , Attack and Defense +7 (was 4), intellect +5(was 4), rage and mana +16 (was 20)

6. Magic.

* Turn back time - increased mana (was 30/30/30, now it is 60/80/100) and increased crystals (was 10/20/30, now it is 20/40/60). The spell can be cast on all allied creatures including dragons.
* Invisibility - increased mana (was 10/20/30, now it is 30/45/60) and crystals (was 3/6/9, now it is 5/10/15); reduced durability (was 2/3/4, now it is 1/2/3).
* Phantom - Some abilities of phantom creatures are disabled. Price 30000. Skill creation works with just 50% power.
* Stone skin - physical resistance 10/20/30% (was +20/30/40%). durability 3/4/5 (was 3/4/4).
* Gods armor - reduced power to 10/15/20 (was 20/25/30).
* Call Phoenix - reduced intellect bonus, reduced crit chance. Price 30000 (was 7000).
* Magic shackles: Spell levels 2 and 3 have leadership - x2 .
* Call of nature: reduced mana 10/20/30(was 20/30/40).
* Sacrifice - cannot increase level 5 creatures.
* Song of the wind - Sun fairy and Ice fairy added. Price 18000.
* Call Giant - becomes Call Beast. Price 18000.
* Life Light - price 25000(was 50000).
* Fear - durability 1/2/3, intellect does not affect it (was 2/3/4).
* Trap - poisons on level 2, poisons and bleeds on level 3.
* Permafrost - calls better creatures, which can be fully controlled. Mana 15/20/25(was 15/25/35).
* Pygmy - skill Creation affects just by 50%.
* Geyser - can't be cast on creatures with magic immunity.

7. Creatures
* new creatures :
-Fire skeleton - undead , level 2.
-Skeleton warrior - undead , level 2
-Sinister - undead, level 5 just for the enemy(it may appear randomly at some places but it's ultra expensive).
-Celestial snake - neutral, level 4.
-Maelstrom - viking , level 5.
***Originally these 5 creatures are designed by Nemesis, mod - "Legendary warriors". I have balanced and changed many skills and abilities .
-Blue Dragon - neutral, level 5.
***Original design by MattCaspermaeyer, mod - "Heroes of might and magic 3 babies". I have changed the skills,abilities and some animations of the creature.

* Price of level 5 creatures is 4 times bigger with some exceptions.
* Some creatures give less gold after killing.
* Cyclops: Has ability Monster - melee damage is 90-105 (было 60-70). Gets a new skill in rank 9.
* Elf avenger: skill tranquilizer reloads every 8 turns and puts to sleep enemies level 1-2 for 2 rounds, level 3-4 for 1 round.
* Inkvisitor: resurrects allies level 1-4.
* Paladin: Praying resurrects only paladins.
* Ancient ent - skill "run" is removed , no retaliation added, physical resistance 20%(was 10), leadership 1400(was 1200), base price 5000 (was 3600).
* Dread eye - is now neutral, some abilities changed.
* Warrior maiden - skill "call of valhalla" has just 1 charge and 2 warrior maidens can resurrect 1 creature(was 1 resurrect 2)
* Sorcerer is now level 3 and can resurrect just elves and snow elves.
* Scout is now level 4, skill Ice arrow is changed to Stun Arrow, base attack can freeze target, ice damage protection 20%(was 10).
* Ice werewolf is now level 4, skill invisibility is changed to "revenge of the winter gods", ice damage protection 20%(was 10).
* White wolf can teleport up to 2 hexes(was 3).
* Giant-Restores minimum 100 health.
* Ice ball - has greater initiative.
* Assassin - backstab 2 charges and reload 3 turns. Slightly increased damage and health.
* Imperial griffin gets a new ability in rank 5.
* Ice Dragon - Increased damage
* Fire mage - faster fireball reload, fireshield gives 35% fire resistance(was 20), increased damage of base attack and fireball.

8. Enemy heroes.

* Dark master - Increased stats
* Uladar - Decreased stats
* Ahriman - Decreased stats
* Dragon Veritorii - Increased stats
* Constantine - Decreased stats
* Ksaltotun - Increased stats
* Jalassar - slightly decreased stats
* Heroes guarding the last boss have increased stats
* Spider boss - slightly decreased stats, increased gold for killing.
* Last boss - Increased stats

9. Valkyries

* Gudrida - Special skill cooldown increased to 10.
* Christa - Increased gold bonus for gold chests.

10. Dialogs and quests.
* Kinen does not give map for Merlassar
* Simon does not give map for Merlassar
* Price for antidot by Irwin is increased.
* Gold for Christa's quest is decreased.
* Tlak's quest removed.
* Price for the ticket to fight the demon boss is decreased.

11. Fixed Bugs in original game
*Christa's gift - Skill was not working on creatures above level 2.
*Added missing description in skill Learning- units also gain bonus experience
*Fixed some wrong descriptions
*Fixed Ice Dragon not getting experience for summoning

12. Known bugs in the mod
* Cave(Iceland) - One of the neutral armies is attacking the hero.
* Runes does not work on Blue Dragon.
* Quest of Christa says it wants 1 000 000 gold but 100 000 is enough.

Compatibility with other mods was not tested.
There may be some things left , which are not translated correctly from the russian version of my mod.


.......
jorko80

[King's Hunty]

Looks good. It's a delight to find a modder who appreciates challenge. I might give WotN another go with this.

I especially like the removal of Freedom Islands and reduced gold income. Only thing I'm against is the trap power increase (both spell and medal). I already find it the most useful spell/thing in non-modded game which discourages me to use other spells.

[jorko80]

Well about the spell - in late game I don't use it at all or very rarely and the level 3 costing 15 mana should have some additional spice in it for incentive. Level 2 poisons but for less then 3 turns and the bleeding was 1 turn I think. About the medal , it still requires 120 trap kills to have 3 traps , which is not an easy job and the increased enemy number in the game compensates for that.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Hey, wow - cool!

Nice to see my work inspiring others and congrats on the mod!

:-)

Matt

-Blue Dragon - neutral, level 5.
***Original design by MattCaspermaeyer, mod - "Heroes of might and magic 3 babies". I have changed the skills,abilities and some animations of the creature.

[jorko80]

Thanks Matt! Loved your creature. I love WoTN also for the story and waited so long for someone to make it challenging and in the end I did it :)

[Sirlancelot]

Thanks for the translation! I will begin a new game soon :-D

[raknefne]

Impossible really sounds like a challenge. I think I start with Hard. Interesting with the 'Fat Cat' Medal, have to save gold, a good reward now! Overall it sounds very cool.

[jorko80]

One of the two biggest problems with WoTN was that the money is like unlimited,there is so much and it's completely boring. Now with the mod , the medal is very important ,because fights give very small amounts. I left some ways to make extra income :) , but I will not spoil this. I don't recommend starting on impossible on the first run, because you need to get a feel how the game progresses and plan in advance.

[raknefne]

I never played WotN that long so cant say about money.

I have some comments (from reading your notes, havent played yet):
- I noticed that all 3 heroes have some high level skills reduced. I understand Warrior and Mage, but Paladin's Resurrection is only 50% of troop lose..? Is that to prevent too much gold savings? It doesnt seem that interesting now to develop that skill.
- Stone skin: Durability 3/4/5 (was 3/4/4): It is opposite, it was duration 3-4-5 in vanilla, or at least in Crossworld, cant remember in WotN.
- Why is Invisibility nerfed so much, and Divine Armor? (=Gods Armor). I'm curious, haven't used those spells much.
- With 330% on Impossible level, isnt is hard for Paladin to develop his song skill? And isn't it too hard to get "no-loss" (not saying a game should be that easy), I'm meaning the player will have to spend a lot of gold for restocking...? I know the mod has been played on impossible with all 3 heroes, so it IS possible. It's just my first impressions.
- With Christa Valkyrie: Much more interesting to have her as main for the gold.
- The extra gold from chest in game, is it worth developing now? It wasnt in vanilla.
- Sounds like level 4 creatures are the "uber" creature now, since level 5 is much more expensive... ??? Wonder if it is too expensive when gold is low????
- The 10% gold income on Impossible, I guess it is toughest at first with gold, but means less late game ??
- When using your download link, a lot of web pages appear about Winzip etc... I see expensive1.2.zip, loc_ses.kfs, ses.kfs or so... looked complicated to get downloaded...

I'm just curious, not critizing, just wondering of these things, since I havent played yet.

[jorko80]

1. Paladin is maybe the easiest hero to play with anyway and with 90% Resurrection you can just put a whole stack between the enemies and don't care for it at all, it is still a good skill now with 50%.
2. Stone skin duration I've changed long time ago, I guess it was weird 3/4/4 in WoTN.
3. Mage hero can play a sick tactic with invisibility and just one stack, Divine armor gave too much protection, especially combined with stone skin.
4. Have in mind , that I managed to get over 300 no-loss battles on impossible and complete the medal. Still there are fights ,where you lose troops, in some you loose a lot. If you loose too much , you have to figure out how to restock and continue or just restart. That's what the easier levels are for.
What does the song skill have to do with 330% number of enemies ?
5.The extra gold from chests helps a bit, it's not much ,but have in mind that the special skill of the valkyrie is also developed.
6. Level 5 is expensive, you have to work hard to get them, if you loose them - you don't deserve them :P . You'll have to think much how to spend the precious gold, still every game I have level 5 creatures and not just one stack.
7. Gold income is pretty well balanced throughout the whole game.
8. Google drive presents what is in the archive. You just need to look on the upper right part of the screen, there is an arrow pointing down. If you hover the mouse cursor over it , it says download , click and you'll have the zip file.

Have in mind, that many of the changes I've made are specifically for WoTN, if it was TL , it would've been different and with less nerfing. In vanilla WoTN , you just get too much of everything too easy and too fast.

[raknefne]

Thx for information. Interesting reading. I did read about the trick with one stack of green dragons and invisibility and wait for dragon mana talent...

What I meant with the paladin song medal is that it is harder to get in 3-4-5 rounds etc. With 330% enemy. That's my first thought. I guess players have to leave some easy fights and return later to be able to finish battle in 3 or 4 rounds.

In general I just wanted to understand the reason to the balance changes. And to get inspired

[Sirlancelot]

I feel actually more comfortable with the medal design that has implemented Trent that doesn't reward leadership points in exchange of x battles won with no losses. Instead, you receive such points after slaying x enemies.

This have the effect of making Level 1-3 units more appealing and the game less tedious, because you don't need to resurrect everyone at the very end of every battle won.

Honestly I'd prefer that would be impossible to do impossible zero loss runs. Otherwise it seems that there's not real difficulty whatsoever. It gives the impression that if you play on a certain way you can actually never loss. And I love unpredictability.

This is why I think damage resistance should be capped at 75-80% and remove other exploits.

I agree with you about Resurrection power, back in Trent racknefne raised second and third medals rune cost, but your solution is probably better.

Stone skin can be 10-20-30 or even 10-15-20 and still be a good spell. At certain point, damage resistance is key.

Anyway, your mod seems very interesting. I like the implementation of new creatures (yay!), and the general philosophy behind the mod.

[Sirlancelot]

Mod "Expensive" - version 1.2.

For Warriors of the north: Ice and Fire build 6263 v.1.3.1 GoG version(it should work on Steam version too)

I have Steam latest version, which is 1.3.1 build 6280. Hope it'll work allright anyway. Can I do any test to check that it fully works as intended?

Do I need to start a Warriors of the North standard campaign or an Ice and Fire campaign? I guess the second contains the first (like Crossworlds contained Armored Princess), but I want your confirmation.

Will it be compatible with the spanish translation of the game, or do I need to play WotN in english?

Hype begins! :P

[raknefne]

I've noticed that many players including myself sometimes don't like changes even if it balance things compared to vanilla. A player didn't like my idea in trent with removable of no loss medal or removable of the paladin creature resurrection talent etc.... It's hard to please everyone... About Trent and res skill, it is a short game and u won't benefit for so long. I haven't played Paladin hero into end game so I'm not an expert.

It is strange 1c haven't worked more on balance spells in later releases

[jorko80]

I have Steam latest version, which is 1.3.1 build 6280. Hope it'll work allright anyway. Can I do any test to check that it fully works as intended?

Do I need to start a Warriors of the North standard campaign or an Ice and Fire campaign? I guess the second contains the first (like Crossworlds contained Armored Princess), but I want your confirmation.

Will it be compatible with the spanish translation of the game, or do I need to play WotN in english?

Hype begins! :P

I think that if the game starts, it will work ok.
You have to start an Ice and Fire campaign and you have to play the english version.
I bought all KB games on GoG and tested an earlier version of the mod on a steam cracked version, it worked back then. I hate Steam and all the checks and additional programs it requires and the internet connection dependability. I hope the mod works for you.
To Raknefne : You can't make everybody happy, that's true. But if you like the general idea of a mod, I guess you'll be able to enjoy the game. Actually vanilla WoTN made most people unhappy - hence modding :) . And the mod I've made mostly for myself - to be able to enjoy this game.
About the song medal - the song skill is powerful anyway and the new difficulty to obtain the medal kinda balances itself. I think I managed to get it to level 2 , never focused on it though. There are many things to have in this game and you can't have it all, that's my idea. Focus on what you want and what strategy you chose.

[Sirlancelot]

I think that if the game starts, it will work ok.
You have to start an Ice and Fire campaign and you have to play the english version.
I bought all KB games on GoG and tested an earlier version of the mod on a steam cracked version, it worked back then. I hate Steam and all the checks and additional programs it requires and the internet connection dependability. I hope the mod works for you.


Great. It worked. But know I wonder, Viking or Skald? I liked the leadership of the warrior in previous iterations of the game, but if possible, at the same time, I would desire its high attack. I don't care at all about rage powers, prefer the kind of spells that buff up your army; Precision, Haste...

By the way, does in WotN exist an skill like the Warrior one in Crossworlds which allows the characters to retaliate several times?

[Sirlancelot]

It seems jorko80 is not as active as raknefne. Well, time to wait patiently :) I have chosen Skald for now.

[jorko80]

Hi Sirlancelot! I've read what you wrote, but I thought you could figure it out yourself by looking the skills in the game :) . I don't think there is such skill.

[Sirlancelot]

What a shame! I'd love to retaliate several times with Bears or Bears alike. I guess I'd have to find a "Furious" creature.

[raknefne]

Oh Sirlancelot are u having a break from Trent hehe.... Only Crossworld has this retal skill. It makes units be like Griffens, pretty strong... I don't think I can play skald in Wotn, I get too focused on developing the song medal (bonus in x rounds with song). A bit annoying. I guess most use the song that gives gold against undead. Used a lot in vanilla. Song could be modded for balance too .... What difficulty do u play?

I managed to download now, np. Btw the only way to get to greenwort is thru the Big Spider? Now that Freedom Island are removed. In vanilla I got kind of annoyed loosing troops when entering portal and have to start new army...

[Sirlancelot]

Oh Sirlancelot are u having a break from Trent hehe.... Only Crossworld has this retal skill. It makes units be like Griffens, pretty strong... I don't think I can play skald in Wotn, I get too focused on developing the song medal (bonus in x rounds with song). A bit annoying. I guess most use the song that gives gold against undead. Used a lot in vanilla. Song could be modded for balance too .... What difficulty do u play?

Hehe, a break, yes. The game became a bit boring with the Ogre set. Almost all battles were cakewalk, and I used Call Phoenix + Archmage Magic Shield + Stone Skin 90% of the time.

Hard, this is my first time playing WotN. :)

[raknefne]

Bug with TRAP spell:

I have level 1 trap with level 2 medal, which gives 150-220 Damage or so with 5 Intellect as Mage. But enemy get poisoned by the level 1 trap, also the trap does same damage as level 2 trap (which I haven't developed yet). I tested with 3 enemies.

They game is a catwalk so far, as level 4-5 on Nordlig. The extra enemy stack on Hard compared with vanilla, I think will be seen a lot more later in game. Also when Freedom Islands are removed, so it is probably balanced, with easy at start but harder later. That's my first impression. I also noticed that Potions cost 3k and not 500 now... Gold is not a problem at all so far with the army of Soothsayer, Warrior Maiden, Jarl, Axe Thrower and Mistique... Did you reduce the gold from chests etc too? It looks low, but can't remember the amount from vanilla Wotn (low compared to Debir in Crossworld).

[Sirlancelot]

It is strange 1c haven't worked more on balance spells in later releases

Heh, I think is simply because not enough people complain. I'm 99% sure Katauri did playtesting enough to know for certain which spells were OP or UP. It's just they didn't find necessary to put more time and effort on balance them.

It's the same with the AI. People nowadays are still mostly obssesed with graphics. It's about time to react and change priorities, though.

[jorko80]

Bug with TRAP spell:

I have level 1 trap with level 2 medal, which gives 150-220 Damage or so with 5 Intellect as Mage. But enemy get poisoned by the level 1 trap, also the trap does same damage as level 2 trap (which I haven't developed yet). I tested with 3 enemies.

They game is a catwalk so far, as level 4-5 on Nordlig. The extra enemy stack on Hard compared with vanilla, I think will be seen a lot more later in game. Also when Freedom Islands are removed, so it is probably balanced, with easy at start but harder later. That's my first impression. I also noticed that Potions cost 3k and not 500 now... Gold is not a problem at all so far with the army of Soothsayer, Warrior Maiden, Jarl, Axe Thrower and Mistique... Did you reduce the gold from chests etc too? It looks low, but can't remember the amount from vanilla Wotn (low compared to Debir in Crossworld).

I know about the trap. The medal traps make more damage and start poisoning on medal level2. I don't know why is that, but it's ok anyway. On impossible I have money problems starting on the 1st island :) . The gold from chests is also reduced. I never tried the game on hard and I don't know how it feels about the gold, but still I think it should be around 2 times more then on impossible. I think it'll be challenging even on hard later when you try buying some level 5 creatures ,spells and artifacts.

[raknefne]

Yes I can imagine game will be harder later, that's what my post also was about. Easy or easier first but harder later, that's the perfect balance. Saving money for later... Is level 4 vikings more expensive than vanilla? Paid 1400 gold or so for one.

[jorko80]

Vikings prices are not changed. But you should get way less money from fighting and it feels expensive.

[Sirlancelot]

Hmm, for the first time on ages, I have money shortage. Am I supposed to recruit Marauders or the like? I see they're offered for free at several places... I'm not very fond of them, though. They're not that good. :neutral:

[jorko80]

Glad to hear it :P . You'll figure it out.
P.S. I don't remember free Marauders. Which island?

[Sirlancelot]

P.S. I don't remember free Marauders. Which island?

Istering.

[raknefne]

I suppose u mean some free stacks u have found? The free ones are random in vanilla. In other games it could be assassin's, witch hunters etc. I recall some in istering two places: in cave and also at surface. Don't think there are much landscape changes in mod more balance of things.

[Sirlancelot]

I suppose u mean some free stacks u have found? The free ones are random in vanilla. In other games it could be assassin's, witch hunters etc. I recall some in istering two places: in cave and also at surface. Don't think there are much landscape changes in mod more balance of things.

Yep, you're right. I found some of them in the robbers haven and the others outside.

By the way, Target works the same as in Crossworlds? I mean, does it force all enemies of the appropiate level to attack always the enchanted (targeted) unit?

[jorko80]

There are 2 stacks that want to join you in Istering and they are random. When you said you are being offered free Marauders, I thought that you found them in a shop, which would've been strange. I did not make terrain changes. Many enemy stacks are changed to include new units. Some stacks are neutral and some have their movement changed.
About the Target spell, I'm not sure,because I didn't use it. It should work the way you have written.

[Sirlancelot]

About the Target spell, I'm not sure,because I didn't use it. It should work the way you have written.

Hope not. It should make the targeted creature more appealing for enemy attacks, not make 100% certain that such creature will be attacked by every opponent of the appropiate level.

Let's see how affects balance.

[raknefne]

Hope not. It should make the targeted creature more appealing for enemy attacks, not make 100% certain that such creature will be attacked by every opponent of the appropiate level.
Let's see how affects balance.

In Trent we made Target more expensive in mana and only effect level 1-3. If it only should be more appealing I guess some modding in a lua file is necessary. I like just level 1-3 better.

BTW I guess the Only way to get to Greenwort is thru the Big Spider 🕷️, right? Can be tough...

[jorko80]

Hi Sirlancelot, raknefne! I usually can't afford to lose so many units of one creature. That means a lot of money. That's why I think the spell is not overpowered. It is possible of course,that there is a cheating tactic,which I didn't find. But if it can't be used for more then 10% of the fights, it is still ok. So when you successfully complete the game on impossible and then you say again the spell must be nerfed - then we can think of something :) . I modified many lua files, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it more appealing.
About Greenwort - yes only thru the spider and one additional fight after it. It is supposed to be tough :P

[Sirlancelot]

Hi Sirlancelot, raknefne! I usually can't afford to lose so many units of one creature. That means a lot of money. That's why I think the spell is not overpowered. It is possible of course,that there is a cheating tactic,which I didn't find. But if it can't be used for more then 10% of the fights, it is still ok. So when you successfully complete the game on impossible and then you say again the spell must be nerfed - then we can think of something :) . I modified many lua files, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it more appealing.
About Greenwort - yes only thru the spider and one additional fight after it. It is supposed to be tough :P

Do you mean the only level of difficulty that you expect to be challenging is Impossible?

Anyway, I'll buy Target and try it out in my current game, so I can offer some feedback.

[jorko80]

Do you mean the only level of difficulty that you expect to be challenging is Impossible?
Heheh, why do you even ask this. There are persons , for whom even "easy" will be challenging, everyone is different. What I mean is , that the game must be balanced for the highest difficulty and then everybody finds a challenge according to their skills. I never tried "hard" , maybe there is too much money compared to "impossible" and the difference is too big. I guess we'll see with some feedback :)

[Sirlancelot]

*When doing damage, the limit of maximum 60 difference between attack and defense is removed.

Is this true also for the reversal (avoiding damage)? (ie: defense) I hope so, it would give a good reason to developing defense. :)

Target seems still quite relevant (decisive) on Hard, I'm gonna start an Impossible run to check the differences.

PS: The song which increases gold income after battle and initiative, does it also give such extra money if the fight last longer than the specified turns its played?

[Sirlancelot]

By the way, don't you think Gift or Runic word should be nerfed so the former couldn't be exploited?

https://www.vigaroe.com/2018/09/warriors-of-north-spell-analysis-part-4.html

Possible bug: Jarls "Shoulder to Shoulder" ability doesn't seem to work on Berserkers.

[raknefne]

I think the song w gold doesn't matter how long it last.

I think ice crystal spell is OP... 6-12-18 Mana is cheap. Perhaps increase with 50% in mana. U can block everything and just have shooters...

[Sirlancelot]

I think the song w gold doesn't matter how long it last.

Good to know. Thanks.


I think ice crystal spell is OP... 6-12-18 Mana is cheap. Perhaps increase with 50% in mana. U can block everything and just have shooters...

Are you playing with a mage, rak? Well, with a Soothsayer.

I see Royal Griffins have got a new talent unlockable at rank 5. I think this change is not documented on page 1.**

[jorko80]

Is this true also for the reversal (avoiding damage)? (ie: defense) I hope so, it would give a good reason to developing defense. :)

Target seems still quite relevant (decisive) on Hard, I'm gonna start an Impossible run to check the differences.

PS: The song which increases gold income after battle and initiative, does it also give such extra money if the fight last longer than the specified turns its played?

Hi guys!
-Damage difference works both ways
-I think the gold song works always, as raknefne said
-Gift and runic word can be a possible exploit bug, I never used it, so I can't tell. Maybe on my next run I'll try it. You can try it on impossible and also have a feeling if it is overpowered.
-I don't remember what was "shoulder to shoulder". If it is bugged , then it is from the original game, I didn't touch it.
-Ice spikes spell is good, but in my experience it wasn't overpowered, maybe again it is the difficulty difference.
-Royal griffin is documented under point 7. I've accidently named it "Imperial" :)

[Sirlancelot]

Well, I'm actually enjoying the mod despite the fact it seems I can't beat on Impossible the first necromancer enemy hero (with a Viking, at least), you need to defeat in order to leave the first island.

I wonder how you manage to win him. He's Very Strong and I only have a couple of scrolls and level 4.

Hard however, felt rather easy to me. So it seems I'd need something between Hard and Impossible. :???:

[jorko80]

Well, I'm actually enjoying the mod despite the fact it seems I can't beat on Impossible the first necromancer enemy hero (with a Viking, at least), you need to defeat in order to leave the first island.

I wonder how you manage to win him. He's Very Strong and I only have a couple of scrolls and level 4.

Hard however, felt rather easy to me. So it seems I'd need something between Hard and Impossible. :???:
Yes, the enemy hero is quite strong. I'm always having difficulties with him :) , but I like it.
Maybe we can adjust the "Hard" option. Do you know your way with the game files? Edit the logic.txt file and change "exp" and "alead" from 2.40 to 2.60 and also change "money" from 0.25 to 0.18. That should give around 33% more money compared to "impossible"(it's 50% at the moment). You'll need to start a new game after the changes.

[Sirlancelot]

Yes, the enemy hero is quite strong. I'm always having difficulties with him :) , but I like it.
Maybe we can adjust the "Hard" option. Do you know your way with the game files? Edit the logic.txt file and change "exp" and "alead" from 2.40 to 2.60 and also change "money" from 0.25 to 0.18.

Where are those files located? In "data" or "sessions" folders? I guess they are inside some *.kfs compressed archive?

I defeated the hero at third attempt, anyway. Problem is, I lost all the fancy units on the process and now have an army of only slingers, vikings and simmilar cheaper units. :) I lack the money for any better.

And now I was beaten by Eric (facepalm) xD

[Sirlancelot]

Two more questions:

Assassins Known Enemy ability, how much attack & defense get depending on their % knowledge of each race?

Pirates and Sea dogs excavator ability, does stack? ie: If I have x pirates and y sea dogs, do I get 20% more gold after battle?

[raknefne]

To Sirlancelot: was playing mage on hard. Having a break... Been playing Wotn a lot the last years when making the Hylfire and Bonfire mod. More surfing games now but only Kb games...

[jorko80]

Two more questions:

Assassins Known Enemy ability, how much attack & defense get depending on their % knowledge of each race?

Pirates and Sea dogs excavator ability, does stack? ie: If I have x pirates and y sea dogs, do I get 20% more gold after battle?

When you hover the mouse cursor over the assassin's ability , it will show you how much bonus they acquired. I think it was up to 50%. I have no idea about pirates and sea dogs, never used them.
Glad to hear you've beaten the necromancer. Eric is a bit easier, but losing your army makes it harder :) . Next time you'll prepare better.
If you are still interested in changing the hard mode, write me again, I'll think of something.

[Sirlancelot]

Griffin Rage is bugged. Whenever I use it from distance, it hits the target without moving the griffin.

[jorko80]

It is not bugged, the griffin moves so fast that you can't see it :P . Jokes aside - for some reason the game does not want to execute the correct animation, that is why the griffin stays on it's place. But still the skill works perfect - you can't hit a creature outside your moving range.

[Sirlancelot]

I think ice crystal spell is OP... 6-12-18 Mana is cheap. Perhaps increase with 50% in mana. U can block everything and just have shooters...

I concur, and I'm playing on impossible.

What file I need to change to edit its mana cost? (and where that file is located)

[jorko80]

The folder is ....\sessions\ice_and_fire . Open the archive ses.kfs and and then open spells.txt . The name of the spell is devatron.
I guess I'll check it next time I play , in my last 2 games I never found it so I don't have much experience with it.

[Sirlancelot]

The folder is ....\sessions\ice_and_fire . Open the archive ses.kfs and and then open spells.txt . The name of the spell is devatron.
I guess I'll check it next time I play , in my last 2 games I never found it so I don't have much experience with it.

Thanks.

By the way, I cannot beat the Spider boss. How many attemps do you do before giving up? What tactic and strategy do you follow to defeat her? I don't care to be spoiled, please tell me how the heck you can crush the spider, I was enjoying the average difficulty till this point, I'm desperated.

I'm level 13 Viking hero with 29 Attack (19+10), 13 Defense, 14 Intellect. 38 mana. 17 Warrior maidens, 137 pirates, 22 Assasins, 57 Berserkers and 11 Royal Griffins, with 14 soothsayers and 68 bowmen in reserve.

[jorko80]

Hi , glad to hear it's challenging :) . But that's why I said impossible is not possible without knowing how the game develops.
First of all, I don't attack the spider before getting to level 15 , even 16 if I manage to do it. And that also means longer fighting with the units you choose for the spider fight - which means they will increase their rank(very important). You can't kill it with units ranked 2-3 .
Second, there were always some options to have a level5 unit in your army. I think I managed to kill the spider without level5 once,can't remember the details. My last game was with mage hero and I had level5 , so it's different from yours.
Third, you have to plan everything since the beginning,thinking exactly for that encounter and choose every skill very carefully.
Hope this helps :)

[Sirlancelot]

Hi , glad to hear it's challenging :) . But that's why I said impossible is not possible without knowing how the game develops.
First of all, I don't attack the spider before getting to level 15 , even 16 if I manage to do it. And that also means longer fighting with the units you choose for the spider fight - which means they will increase their rank(very important). You can't kill it with units ranked 2-3 .
Second, there were always some options to have a level5 unit in your army. I think I managed to kill the spider without level5 once,can't remember the details. My last game was with mage hero and I had level5 , so it's different from yours.
Third, you have to plan everything since the beginning,thinking exactly for that encounter and choose every skill very carefully.
Hope this helps :)

Yes it does. My units are all above rank level 5, though. Didn't find level 5 creatures..

Is there any workaround to make this easier? I don't want to restart, honestly. I think I could reach level 14 with several loses, but probably not more. Getting up to level 15 would imply facing "Very strong" or deadlier encounters.

[Space Knight]

Yes it does. My units are all above rank level 5, though. Didn't find level 5 creatures..

Is there any workaround to make this easier? I don't want to restart, honestly. I think I could reach level 14 with several loses, but probably not more. Getting up to level 15 would imply facing "Very strong" or deadlier encounters.

I think you can find level 5 units in Merlassar and Ice Gardens before fighting the spider boss.
Edit: You can't.

[jorko80]

There is no workaround :) . I think there were some lvl5 by the witch in the pirate's cave. But anyway by that time you will not have enough fights left to up their rank. So I guess restarting and planning carefully is the way to go on impossible.

To Space Knight - This mod does not allow you easy access to Merlassar and Ice Gardens. You have to beat the spider and then some more to get there.

[Space Knight]

There is no workaround :) . I think there were some lvl5 by the witch in the pirate's cave. But anyway by that time you will not have enough fights left to up their rank. So I guess restarting and planning carefully is the way to go on impossible.

To Space Knight - This mod does not allow you easy access to Merlassar and Ice Gardens. You have to beat the spider and then some more to get there.

Ok. To be honest, I still haven't played the mod (planning to), so I just took a guess.

[raknefne]

You can always use this cheat: Have a stack of Witch Hunters in your army. Cast the talent that gives damage each time enemy uses a skill, cast it on the big spider. It dies in 1 round... it's a vanilla bug. I don't know if jorko80 fixed this, though. I used it in vanilla.

[jorko80]

Hahaha :) , awful BUG . Never heard of it. I'll fix it in the next version of my mod.
Thanks raknefne!

[Sirlancelot]

You can always use this cheat: Have a stack of Witch Hunters in your army. Cast the talent that gives damage each time enemy uses a skill, cast it on the big spider. It dies in 1 round... it's a vanilla bug. I don't know if jorko80 fixed this, though. I used it in vanilla.

Haha, I've got it!

[Sirlancelot]

Hello there. :) I've been playing the mod again lately and found a really weird bug in Hades. My rage went down by 12! points after a battle. Is it a known issue? Could it happen under some circumstances even in vanilla or this must be somehow related to the mod? I'm quite confused and annoyed.

Recent changes/actions which I did before the aforementioned battle:

I chose Gudrida as a senior valkyrie.
Equipped Salamander Banner and the +5 sword that raises your attack by +10 in snowy arenas (I don't remember its name right now) It's part of a set.

[jorko80]

Hi, never heard of such a bug. And it never happened to me. Played the mod 4 times I think. I guess it's connected to the core of the game. Are you sure you didn't just unequip an artefact or a valkyrie that gives bonus? What happens if you just load before that battle?

[Sirlancelot]

Yes, I'm certain.

Before the battle I had 77 fury points and afterwards 65. I'd bet is related to the sword (Ice song, checked the name ingame) or the banner and not the valkyrie chosen as senior, because I put Gudrida in front a few other times in the past, and nothing happened.

[violetnred]

does valkyries' "Manage Runes" option work here? i was never sure if it did anything useful before and i much prefer to manage the runes manually if the effects are neglectible.

[jorko80]

I didn't change that option. I never used it , so I don't know if it's working. It should work as in the original game.

[Sirlancelot]

Hello again.

I'm stuck at the Grotland quest "Paper for the professor", for which completion I need both paper and a bottle of ink. The paper can be purchased from Rezo, but the ink... seems impossible to find. I think I have checked all shops in the game for no avail. Surely I exchanged all inkpots I found/bought through the game for mana crystals.

Quite annoying.

PS: Tried also creating the item with the aid of the console code "item inkpot" without sucess. Damm. I hope I won't miss anything important.

[jorko80]

Hi! This is a vanilla quest. When you have sold all your inks , then you can't finish it. It's not that important :)

[Sirlancelot]

Hi! This is a vanilla quest. When you have sold all your inks , then you can't finish it. It's not that important :)

Hey, jorko! Thank you for remain there after so many years.

Good to hear. I'll skip the quest then.

Ice song, the +5 sword, +10 in snowy arenas, is deffinitely bugged. As per description, it should pass its powers to its owner once its moral reach zero. Probably OP, by the way. But I bought it just for that feature. And when the sword morales becomes Terrible, nothing happens.