I get killed as a gunner, so the pilot is dead too?

[Nil]

Hi dear Daidalos Team!
When we get killed as a gunner, it is game over, even if the pilot is still alive.
I find it not realistic,
Would it be possible that when we get killed as a gunner, the view goes automatically to the pilot and we can still control the plane? (like IL2 BOS BOM)?

It would be nice!

[majorfailure]

I find it not realistic,


If you would get shot dead IRL you couldn't just skip your soul to the next passer-by and take control of him, could you? So it is realistic, what is not is beeing able to skip seats. But add it as a difficulty option -if that's possible- why not?

[Nil]

In a bomber, there are not 1 guy, but several
So if one guy get shot, there are still the other.

My gunner get shot, not me because I am the pilot.
This is called "multirole playing"

So As long as the pilot is alive, the plane has to continue to fly.
Like the reality.

[Verdun1916]

In a bomber, there are not 1 guy, but several
So if one guy get shot, there are still the other.

My gunner get shot, not me because I am the pilot.
This is called "multirole playing"

So As long as the pilot is alive, the plane has to continue to fly.
Like the reality.

Yeah but you play as the pilot. If one of your gunners get shot while you fly the plane you are still alive. But if you leave the pilot seat to go change places with one of your gunners and you get killed while manning the gun your characher is dead. That is realistic. You don't play as all the crewmen on one aircraft. That would be unrealistic. You play as one of them, either the default "John Doe" or another you have created yourself, that is realistic.

[idefix44]

So As long as the pilot is alive, the plane has to continue to fly.
Like the reality.

She does. But without you... :rolleyes:

[Nil]

Yeah but you play as the pilot. If one of your gunners get shot while you fly the plane you are still alive. But if you leave the pilot seat to go change places with one of your gunners and you get killed while manning the gun your characher is dead. That is realistic. You don't play as all the crewmen on one aircraft. That would be unrealistic. You play as one of them, either the default "John Doe" or another you have created yourself, that is realistic.
The crew on a bomber do not change roles! like the pilot take the gunner position and the gunner take the pilot seat

It is not about changing role,
it is about using temporally the body of one gunner.

Multi crew is that actually. each has a role and if one is dead, there as still the other

Otherwise, the modeled gunners stations are useless and have to be always used by IA.

As a player, we play the WHOLE bomber, not just a part of it, or we need other human as well in the bomber which would be impossible in single player. While I am manning the gun, I can still fly the plane so if a gunner is dead, I still fly the plane as well because I am not the gunner, I am the pilot, and the pilot is still alive.

to say it fast: When I use a gunner station, I am still the pilot, I am not the gunner: I am commanding the gunner guy. Proof: I am still piloting the plane while I use the gun station.

[Verdun1916]

The crew on a bomber do not change roles! like the pilot take the gunner position and the gunner take the pilot seat

It is not about changing role,
it is about using temporally the body of one gunner.

Multi crew is that actually. each has a role and if one is dead, there as still the other

Otherwise, the modeled gunners stations are useless and have to be always used by IA.

As a player, we play the WHOLE bomber, not just a part of it, or we need other human as well in the bomber which would be impossible in single player. While I am manning the gun, I can still fly the plane so if a gunner is dead, I still fly the plane as well because I am not the gunner, I am the pilot, and the pilot is still alive.

to say it fast: When I use a gunner station, I am still the pilot, I am not the gunner: I am commanding the gunner guy. Proof: I am still piloting the plane while I use the gun station.

No, you are right! In real life the pilot or co-pilot did not not switch places. But in the game they can do that...it's to make the game more fun to play. To be honest, for full realism you should not be able to access any of the other stations on multicrew aircraft, only the first-pilot seat. :grin:
Don't know what you have your game settings on but when I leave the pilot seat to enter another station the AI flies the plane for me. I'm not both pilot and gunner at the same time since that would be highly unrealistic.

But hey...since you to want realism I suggest we petition TD to restrict all other stations exept for the pilot seat to AI use only. That way we can only fly the bombers. That would make it easier for TD to give us more new bombers aswell since they won't have to bother with creating internal looks for all other the stations except for the flight deck. Would that be realistic enough for you? :grin:

[Tolwyn]

I've never seen so many non-answers to a post before.

In single-player mode, the game has a limitation that a plane can only have one "flying" intelligence as the pilot. EITHER human OR AI. If you select the pilot, only you can control that object in the simulator. If you choose to go to a gunner and get killed, the plane can not be controlled any longer.

In COOP mode, this can be achieved ONLY IF the other human selects the CO-pilot position.

If pilot dies AND IF pilot has already assigned/given control to buttons and axis to CO PILOT before the pilot dies, then co-pilot can control the plane.

[Nil]

No, you are right! In real life the pilot or co-pilot did not not switch places. But in the game they can do that...it's to make the game more fun to play. To be honest, for full realism you should not be able to access any of the other stations on multicrew aircraft, only the first-pilot seat. :grin:
Don't know what you have your game settings on but when I leave the pilot seat to enter another station the AI flies the plane for me. I'm not both pilot and gunner at the same time since that would be highly unrealistic.

But hey...since you to want realism I suggest we petition TD to restrict all other stations exept for the pilot seat to AI use only. That way we can only fly the bombers. That would make it easier for TD to give us more new bombers aswell since they won't have to bother with creating internal looks for all other the stations except for the flight deck. Would that be realistic enough for you? :grin: No that would be not realistic enough for me.
I want that ; like the reality, we have only ONE life. Once we die, the game is not working anymore and you do not play it for the rest of your life.
Sounds stupid, uh? Same thing applies for this issue.

I've never seen so many non-answers to a post before.

In single-player mode, the game has a limitation that a plane can only have one "flying" intelligence as the pilot. EITHER human OR AI. If you select the pilot, only you can control that object in the simulator. If you choose to go to a gunner and get killed, the plane can not be controlled any longer.

In COOP mode, this can be achieved ONLY IF the other human selects the CO-pilot position.

If pilot dies AND IF pilot has already assigned/given control to buttons and axis to CO PILOT before the pilot dies, then co-pilot can control the plane.
That is why I would like to remove this limitation , so using turret stations would have more interest , sounds logical as they are modeled with hard work

It is so much enjoyable to be the pilot AND the gunner, that is why gunner stations are modeled.

[Verdun1916]

No that would be not realistic enough for me.
I want that ; like the reality, we have only ONE life. Once we die, the game is not working anymore and you do not play it for the rest of your life.
Sounds stupid, uh? Same thing applies for this issue.


That is why I would like to remove this limitation , so using turret stations would have more interest , sounds logical as they are modeled with hard work

It is so much enjoyable to be the pilot AND the gunner, that is why gunner stations are modeled.

Hey, you were the one posting that it 's not realistic enough. Not me! I have no problem with the way it is right now. ;)

[Nil]

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story :o

[Marabekm]

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story :o

I can see that.
So why not just uncheck the realistic pilot vulnerability setting under difficulty options. This way you can't die. (I do not know if it applies to gunners. Perhaps test and let us know.) There really is no need to get upset over a non-issue.

[Nil]

Thank you Marabekm,
I did not test "pilot vulnerability" for gunner and to be honest, I completely forgot this option as I always fly at the max difficulty.

But what I asked for our mighty Daidalos Team is to have the ability to not die when we use a gunner station. The view goes automatically to pilot view, and if the pilot die, of course it is game over.
Note that on some plane it is possible that an another crew member take the role of the pilot, but I guess it is too much to ask.

[Verdun1916]

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story :o

My intention was certainly not to troll at all! But simply to put my thoughts on the subject! I have never had the problem you claim to have here. Yet you brought up the point of realism. And to be honest, as a pure gamer I have no problems with the possibility og changing places in mulicrew Aircrafts in-game. But from a realism-standpoint it's not realistic at all to be able to change places from pilot seat to te rest in mid flight. So I put forth my idea of an added realism setting that would be nice to have for those who want to have the added realism it brings. if you don't like that idea that's frankly not my problem. I'm entitled to an opinion of my own just as you are entitled to an opinion of your own.

And I like the fact that if you change seats from pilot to a gunner seat and get killed there the mission is over! Just as if you were killed while sitting in the pilot seat. I think so because I see it as you play the pilot character you have created and he is the pilot. And it's not realistic that he would just switch seats with one of the other crewmembers in midflight (but as a pure fun-factor we can do that). But if a pilot would do that in real life anyway, and he would be killed on a gunner station for instance he would be dead just the same. And if it was a single pilot aircraft the plane would most likely crash since none of the other crewmember would have any pilot training. So for me I like the fact that if I get killed after I have switched to another station the mission is over since it brings an additional level of realism. That is not me trolling! That is me posting my opinion. And I also think it would be nice, for added realism, to have a setting to choose from were you could switch between the way it is now or pilot-only.

So that is my opinion on this matter! But that is still not me trolling! It's just me having a diffrent opinion on this matter than you. Not all of us enjoys "multitasking" when it comes to the multicrew aircraft just because you do. Many of us just enjoy to (only) fly them and like having the AI taking care of the rest. I'm sorry if you can't handle that, mate!

[Janosch]

So for me I like the fact that if I get killed after I have switched to another station the mission is over since it brings an additional level of realism.

This sounds fair in a side-by-side pilot/copilot type situation in a bomber, but it would be unfair for planes like Bf-110 where it's pretty much physically impossible to switch positions between the two (modeled) seats. So, since AI is AI, and human is human (usually human is smarter than AI and therefore makes the decisions), in a situation where you can't get humans to man all seats, it would be better to not kill the player - that is to say the ability to continue playing as a pilot (because you started the mission as a pilot, after all, by Jove) if a gunner dies. Because AI gunner can't even properly report bandits, merely looking through the eyes of a rear gunner is often vital for two seaters. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that, since nobody really flies planes that have bigger crew than two, maybe B5N being the rare exception.

There's one funny thing about switching stations. If you're using a custom pilot skin, it actually gets swapped if you look at your plane from an external view. I strongly object to this feature.

[idefix44]

Using IL-2 Sturmovik, each time you're dead you have to hit the "refly" button.
No matter the seat was occupied.

Why?...

BECAUSE YOU'RE DEAD.

And for me it's good like that.

[Verdun1916]

Using IL-2 Sturmovik, each time you're dead you have to hit the "refly" button.
No matter the seat was occupied.

Why?...

BECAUSE YOU'RE DEAD.

And for me it's good like that.

Well said! :D

[Nil]

If you want to die Idefix, that is your choice.
You know, I am not like you, some people want to stay alive.
By the way , if I command a gunner and my pilot dies, it would be fair that the game is over, because no pilot, no more possible de fly the plane (like IL2 BOS)

For me it is the best solution! :grin:
I hope it will be the default setting for our IL2 one day.

[Pursuivant]

I think that the debate over "dead is dead" vs. "dead just means you have to switch bodies" boils down to player preference.

The debate over whether it's "right" is a debate over play style, with some elements of outrage about "other people having fun in the wrong way."

In multi-player, I can see advantages to having it both ways, but the decision should be up to the mission builder and/or server operator.

For offline, it doesn't matter at all. Just check the appropriate difficulty settings boxes and have fun.

Obviously, "dead is dead" is more realistic, but only if you are attempting to simulate the life of a particular crewman rather than the life of a particular plane crew, or even a particular squadron.

Really, it's a technical issue as to whether the IL2 game engine will support a change to "dead is dead" and whether making the change is a priority for TD.