Why not the Mediterranean Theater next?

[DoolittleRaider]

All the talk on the forums seems to focus on the Battle of Moscow as the first sequel to COD. Some of this is apparently based upon some hint by Oleg, and/or a poster at an SOW:BOB demo-show(?).

In a recent thread, a discussion began about which aircraft would be needed for such a Battle of Moscow flightsim sequel. Answer:many Russian aircraft would need to be developed/added to the COD baseline, along with additional Luftwaffe aircraft types and models not used in BofB/COD. After all, the invasion of Russia did not begin until June 1941, almost a year after the Battle of Britain began. Also, the new Maps required would have to be failry extensive. It seems that a considerable amount of programming and design, etc, would be required for a Battle of Moscow sequel.


I've long been curious as to why the Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) would not be the next planned theater for a COD sequel. The role of the Italian Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain was merely a curiosity, insignificant. So, why would so much programming effort in COD development have been diverted to such a relatively obscure matter. To me, it only makes sense if it were planned by 1C to use those RA aircraft in a Mediterranean scenario/sequel, released relatively quickly after SOW:BoB/COD release.


Battle of the Mediterranean, 1940-1941

Italians aerial assault on Malta beginning June 1940: COD has RAF Gladiators and Hurricanes, and most of the significant Italian RA aircraft. One would just need maps, which would seem to be much less complex maps than the UK/France maps of COD. COD would need to add SM-79.

Italians in North Africa attack British forces in Egypt in Sep 1940. Again, COD has all of the necessary RAF and most of the necessary RA aircraft.

Italians invade Greece in October 1940. Ditto above.

Germans invade Yugoslavia and Greece in April 1941. COD has 90% of the necessary Luftwaffe aircraft and all the RAF aircraft.

Germans attack Crete and British Naval task forces in Mediterranean. COD Luftwaffe has almost all necessary aircraft. COD would have to add British Carrier(s) and carrier-based aircraft.

Rommel battles British in North Africa from Spring 1941. Would only need COD to add P40B/C for RAF, SAAF of Desert Air Force

It would seem that with a relatively small effort/cost, IL-2: MTO could be released very soon after all the major problems with COD are worked out and patched.

imho

[T}{OR]

Unless I am mistaken, Oleg himself stated that hey will be revealing the third title in line before the second - i.e. The Battle of Moscow.

Apart from the IL2 screen shot (presumably and early variant) that has been shown to us by luthier, we know nothing about the sequel yet.

Why it isn't Mediterranean Theater - is beyond me and the majority here that have wanted this series to go next.

Still, I look forward to any sequel - as long as BoB is made operational first. :)

[TeeJay82]

I look forward to any sequel - as long as BoB is made operational first. :)

I could not agree more

[Mad G]

All the talk on the forums seems to focus on the Battle of Moscow as the first sequel to COD. Some of this is apparently based upon some hint by Oleg, and/or a poster at an SOW:BOB demo-show(?).

In a recent thread, a discussion began about which aircraft would be needed for such a Battle of Moscow flightsim sequel. Answer:many Russian aircraft would need to be developed/added to the COD baseline, along with additional Luftwaffe aircraft types and models not used in BofB/COD. After all, the invasion of Russia did not begin until June 1941, almost a year after the Battle of Britain began. Also, the new Maps required would have to be failry extensive. It seems that a considerable amount of programming and design, etc, would be required for a Battle of Moscow sequel.


I've long been curious as to why the Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) would not be the next planned theater for a COD sequel. The role of the Italian Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain was merely a curiosity, insignificant. So, why would so munch programming effort in COD development have been diverted to such a relatively obscure matter. To me, it only makes sense if it were planned by 1C to use those RA aircraft in a Mediterranean scenario/sequel, released relatively quickly after SOW:BoB/COD release.


Battle of the Mediterranean, 1940-1941

Italians aerial assault on Malta beginning June 1940: COD has RAF Gladiators and Hurricanes, and most of the significant Italian RA aircraft. One would just need maps, which would seem to be much less complex maps than the UK/France maps of COD. COD would need to add SM-79.

Italians in North Africa attack British forces in Egypt in Sep 1940. Again, COD has all of the necessary RAF and most of the necessary RA aircraft.

Italians invade Greece in October 1940. Ditto above.

Germans invade Yugoslavia and Greece in April 1941. COD has 90% of the necessary Luftwaffe aircraft and all the RAF aircraft.

Germans attack Crete and British Naval task forces in Mediterranean. COD Luftwaffe has almost all necessary aircraft. COD would have to add British Carrier(s) and carrier-based aircraft.

Rommel battles British in North Africa from Spring 1941. Would only need COD to add P40B/C for RAF, SAAF of Desert Air Force

It would seem that with a relatively small effort/cost, IL-2: MTO could be released very soon after all the major problems with COD are worked out and patched.

imho


+1

[JG27_brook]

Enjoying the E3 but just give me a "190" soon

[Skiiwa]

Enjoying the E3 but just give me a "190" soon

They really need a flight instructor in this game cause I ALWAYS break my E3 :D

[JG27_brook]

They really need a flight instructor in this game cause I ALWAYS break my E3 :D

flew E3 on easy settings for a day, noted all the PP settings etc then you will pick up PP for the E3 and it becomes a joy to fly on manual

[*Buzzsaw*]

All the talk on the forums seems to focus on the Battle of Moscow as the first sequel to COD. Some of this is apparently based upon some hint by Oleg, and/or a poster at an SOW:BOB demo-show(?).

In a recent thread, a discussion began about which aircraft would be needed for such a Battle of Moscow flightsim sequel. Answer:many Russian aircraft would need to be developed/added to the COD baseline, along with additional Luftwaffe aircraft types and models not used in BofB/COD. After all, the invasion of Russia did not begin until June 1941, almost a year after the Battle of Britain began. Also, the new Maps required would have to be failry extensive. It seems that a considerable amount of programming and design, etc, would be required for a Battle of Moscow sequel.


I've long been curious as to why the Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) would not be the next planned theater for a COD sequel. The role of the Italian Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain was merely a curiosity, insignificant. So, why would so munch programming effort in COD development have been diverted to such a relatively obscure matter. To me, it only makes sense if it were planned by 1C to use those RA aircraft in a Mediterranean scenario/sequel, released relatively quickly after SOW:BoB/COD release.


Battle of the Mediterranean, 1940-1941

Italians aerial assault on Malta beginning June 1940: COD has RAF Gladiators and Hurricanes, and most of the significant Italian RA aircraft. One would just need maps, which would seem to be much less complex maps than the UK/France maps of COD. COD would need to add SM-79.

Italians in North Africa attack British forces in Egypt in Sep 1940. Again, COD has all of the necessary RAF and most of the necessary RA aircraft.

Italians invade Greece in October 1940. Ditto above.

Germans invade Yugoslavia and Greece in April 1941. COD has 90% of the necessary Luftwaffe aircraft and all the RAF aircraft.

Germans attack Crete and British Naval task forces in Mediterranean. COD Luftwaffe has almost all necessary aircraft. COD would have to add British Carrier(s) and carrier-based aircraft.

Rommel battles British in North Africa from Spring 1941. Would only need COD to add P40B/C for RAF, SAAF of Desert Air Force

It would seem that with a relatively small effort/cost, IL-2: MTO could be released very soon after all the major problems with COD are worked out and patched.

imho

Would totally agree the Med is much more logical as a sequel, although there are some errors in your list above.

1) No carriers used in the Crete campaign.

2) Malta would be a good addition, this would require RN Carriers. Aircraft on the Carriers absolutely required would be Sea Hurricane I (same as Hurri I but +16 boost and tailhook) and Swordfish. If you wanted all the seaborne aircraft then you'd need the Fairey Fulmar, Gladiator and Martlet, (Wildcat) and but those were a minority of the fighters used. Game already has the AI Glad so it could be implemented fairly easily. It was also the first defending land based fighter on Malta. The Italians would need the MC-200 for early Malta, and MC-202 for late plus and SM-79.

[ElAurens]

Well, as much as I want the Med, and believe me I want it badly, The Battle of Moscow does not require any capitol ships to be modeled.

Note we have no warships of any kind in CloD.

I suspect that modeling at least one battleship type, and cruiser type, and two destroyer types, for the Italian and British navies, and a Royal Navy aircraft carrier with the appropriate aircraft types for it would take a year in and of themselves, not counting any new maps.

I'll bet most of the Russian Front stuff has been done for a long time now.

;)

[JG14_Jagr]

"Malta" doesn't have a broad enough scope to be a full addon in and of itself. It requires a significant investment in Ship models and CV operations, and in the end, its VERY narrowly focused. Its certainly something to MOD when the plane sets becomes available..but who is going to play "Malta" over and over and over?

Keeping in mind that the coders are RUSSIAN :) and that the original CORE of the IL2 series started with the Russian campaign, I think its logical in both time line and progress of the plane set. You get to integrate a lot of knew AC types that they already have in the bag, and grow the plan set.

I'll place my money on Barbarossa :)

[AndyJWest]

I wonder if an issue is the size of the maps required? Though doing an entire 'Eastern Front' campaign map would entail as much, if not more, than a Med one, it would be feasible enough to do a smaller one (just the Smolensk - Moscow region?), and still have plenty of space for a decent campaign. In contrast, a Med map would need to be quite large to do justice to the historical context - fronts moved rapidly etc. Perhaps a Med map would involve too much work, or put too much strain on current hardware?

[DoolittleRaider]

Would totally agree the Med is much more logical as a sequel, although there are some errors in your list above.

1) No carriers used in the Crete campaign.
True, not in the May 1941Crete campaign, per se. Other Brit convoys were attacked by LW, with losses of cruisers, destroyers, transports etc...but no Brit carrier operations.

However, Brit carriers Ark Royal and Illustrious and one or two others were active in Med in 1940 (for example, Illustrious in attack upon Taranto in Nov 1940). Later, in summer '42, several carriers were active and Indomitable, specifically, was attacked by LW Stukas.




2) Malta would be a good addition, this would require RN Carriers. Aircraft on the Carriers absolutely required would be Sea Hurricane I (same as Hurri I but +16 boost and tailhook) and Swordfish. ...
Game already has the AI Glad so it could be implemented fairly easily. It was also the first defending land based fighter on Malta. The Italians would need the MC-200 for early Malta, and MC-202 for late plus and SM-79.

I agree. Swordfish would be a Must-have aircraft (see note about Taranto, above), and Macchi 200 and 202's also. FYI, if interested in Malta Gladiators, see the "Faith, Hope, and Charity" IL-2 movie here: http://www.flightsimmachinima.com/faith-hope-and-charity-by-wingmen-productions

[xnomad]

Enjoying the E3 but just give me a "190" soon

With a great big bar obscuring the bottom of the windscreen! :grin:

[nearmiss]

Well, as much as I want the Med, and believe me I want it badly, The Battle of Moscow does not require any capitol ships to be modeled.

Note we have no warships of any kind in CloD.

I suspect that modeling at least one battleship type, and cruiser type, and two destroyer types, for the Italian and British navies, and a Royal Navy aircraft carrier with the appropriate aircraft types for it would take a year in and of themselves, not counting any new maps.

I'll bet most of the Russian Front stuff has been done for a long time now.

;)

Don't you think they could use IL2 ships?

I realize they won't be 16 poly, but all I've ever done is blow them up. I really think Oleg must have planned to do something with the IL2 ships, because there was never any real effort made for ships. That does seem abit strange, because the Battle of Britain started with concentrated attacks on British shipping.

Like yourself, I'd love to do the Hurricanes, Glads and Spits out of Malta. We have most of the aircraft now, with the Italian aircraft, etc.

All we need is the maps covering southern Italy, Malta and North Africa. LOL

[csThor]

Well, 1C is a russian company so naturally they're closer to the interests and wants of the russian players. Secondly I remember pics of Oleg showing Il-2 1946 to President Medvedev last year along with reports that the russian state and 1C have signed a contract for state subsidies for the development of computer games which show aspects of Russia's history to the younger generation.

[Feathered_IV]

As much as I'd love a dedicated Malta scenario, the Moscow addon makes more sense for 1c as a whole. The future for them is to share many of their models and other content for ease of production over a number of different games. Men of War 2 and future ToW series etc might well be fought in the clod engine. Focusing on the East is just good resource management.

[Chivas]

All the talk on the forums seems to focus on the Battle of Moscow as the first sequel to COD. Some of this is apparently based upon some hint by Oleg, and/or a poster at an SOW:BOB demo-show(?).

In a recent thread, a discussion began about which aircraft would be needed for such a Battle of Moscow flightsim sequel. Answer:many Russian aircraft would need to be developed/added to the COD baseline, along with additional Luftwaffe aircraft types and models not used in BofB/COD. After all, the invasion of Russia did not begin until June 1941, almost a year after the Battle of Britain began. Also, the new Maps required would have to be failry extensive. It seems that a considerable amount of programming and design, etc, would be required for a Battle of Moscow sequel.


I've long been curious as to why the Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) would not be the next planned theater for a COD sequel. The role of the Italian Regia Aeronautica in the Battle of Britain was merely a curiosity, insignificant. So, why would so much programming effort in COD development have been diverted to such a relatively obscure matter. To me, it only makes sense if it were planned by 1C to use those RA aircraft in a Mediterranean scenario/sequel, released relatively quickly after SOW:BoB/COD release.


Battle of the Mediterranean, 1940-1941

Italians aerial assault on Malta beginning June 1940: COD has RAF Gladiators and Hurricanes, and most of the significant Italian RA aircraft. One would just need maps, which would seem to be much less complex maps than the UK/France maps of COD. COD would need to add SM-79.

Italians in North Africa attack British forces in Egypt in Sep 1940. Again, COD has all of the necessary RAF and most of the necessary RA aircraft.

Italians invade Greece in October 1940. Ditto above.

Germans invade Yugoslavia and Greece in April 1941. COD has 90% of the necessary Luftwaffe aircraft and all the RAF aircraft.

Germans attack Crete and British Naval task forces in Mediterranean. COD Luftwaffe has almost all necessary aircraft. COD would have to add British Carrier(s) and carrier-based aircraft.

Rommel battles British in North Africa from Spring 1941. Would only need COD to add P40B/C for RAF, SAAF of Desert Air Force

It would seem that with a relatively small effort/cost, IL-2: MTO could be released very soon after all the major problems with COD are worked out and patched.

imho

As far as I know, Battle for Moscow isn't the next addon being done by Maddox Games. Battle of Moscow is a third party addon using the new IL-2 engine. Maddox Games has hinted for some time that the Med could be "their" next addon although Oleg mentioned he was researching their next addon and people will be surprised at the location. This leads me to believe it may not be the Med. The Battle for Moscow will probably be out before Maddox Games even comes close to making their next addon to the new series.

[Pluto]

Well, as much as I want the Med, and believe me I want it badly, The Battle of Moscow does not require any capitol ships to be modeled.

Note we have no warships of any kind in CloD. ......
......
;)

... yes, agree ! I dont care that much on what comes next as long as the existing sim is not even fully operational ! ! ! !
Learn to walk before you try to run !
:neutral:

[JG14_Jagr]

Maybe they'll go right to Korea! :)

They have had many of the mdoels done for quite a long time...

[Langnasen]

I think it would make most sense to carry on with the ETO, using an extended version of the current map for 1941, and then bring in the Russian front at the appropriate point in the time-line. Jumping from BoB to Barbarossa is bullcrap.

[winny]

The problem with the MTO is that the 1st Spitfire didn't arrive there till 1942, so the timeline argument is ok but it means you can't use a Spitfire over malta till a year after Barbarossa launched. There's a lot of overlap.

If you want it chronologically then MTO would be Itallians vs Hurricanes & Bi-planes from June '40 to January, when the LW start to get involved.

The LW would then effectivley pull out from April to December '41 to take part in the Battle of Crete/Balkans etc..

Park didn't arrive in Malta till 1942. The big RAF offensive sarted afer that and was over by November '42, at which point 330,000 Germans were encircled at Stalingrad.

Having said all that I'd like to see MTO next, but it's not because of historical accuracy it's just a preference.

[Sauf]

I think it would make most sense to carry on with the ETO, using an extended version of the current map for 1941, and then bring in the Russian front at the appropriate point in the time-line. Jumping from BoB to Barbarossa is bullcrap.

Exactly what part of the ETO between Oct 40 to June 41 do you want that you can't do with what we have now?

[TonyD]

+1 for the MTO, but then I just want to fly for the SAAF over North Africa :grin:

[JG53Frankyboy]

Exactly what part of the ETO between Oct 40 to June 41 do you want that you can't do with what we have now?

IF there would have been a smaller Extension-AdOn for the given map with planes , my choice would have been a "Dieppe 42" scenario.
At least the planeset around this scenario would have brought some interesting planes to the players:
Fw190A-2/-3, as Fighterbombers too
Bf109G-1
Do217E
Spitfire V & IX (Merlin 61)
Hurricane IIb&c Fighterbombers
Mustang I
Boston III
B-17F

as examples ...
with some new ships (as BoB is realy lacking in them) and perhaps some new engine features - it would have made a nice intermediate AdOn to sell before the next BIG one with a totaly new map. And i belive making a Map for this series is a lot of work.

but this will obviously not happen :D

[Gerfaut]

Interesting. I second that.
btw, the Dieppe 42 scenario could be combined quite easily with Cerberus 42, the Channel dash to Germany by Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen from Brest naval base. Most of the interesting map is already available, and this major operation also included ferocious air combats in Feb 42...

These kind of scenarii (both Cerberus & Dieppe), also are an excellent opportunity to tweak the whole Channel theater map, while introducing new tactical situations later in the war.

This would :
- enable the BOB aficionados to play in a tweaked environment, thus directly supporting the debug phase on CoD map;
- enable the bored ones to get new stuff, although kept at a lower cost for the dev.

This is a typical quick-win opportunity they could tend to favor to solve CoD issues...
:rolleyes:

[winny]

Maybe they should go for the Rhubarbs and circuses of '41. Same map (with duxford / 12 group added etc..)

It would give the chance to fight the BoB in reverse, with the RAF fighters tied to escorting bombers at the limit of thier range and the LW fighting a defensive battle, wouldn't need too many new aircraft, could be quite quick to produce.

Other scenarios that could use the same map with additions, Dieppe (as someone said), Preparation and aftermath of D-Day, The V1-V2 offensive

Hopefully in the future some third party will design plane sets/vehicle sets to use on existing maps.

[pupaxx]

IF there would have been a smaller Extension-AdOn for the given map with planes , my choice would have been a "Dieppe 42" scenario.
At least the planeset around this scenario would have brought some interesting planes to the players:
Fw190A-2/-3, as Fighterbombers too
Bf109G-1
Do217E
Spitfire V & IX (Merlin 61)
Hurricane IIb&c Fighterbombers
Mustang I
Boston III
B-17F

as examples ...
with some new ships (as BoB is realy lacking in them) and perhaps some new engine features - it would have made a nice intermediate AdOn to sell before the next BIG one with a totaly new map. And i belive making a Map for this series is a lot of work.

but this will obviously not happen :D

+1000000:o "Rhubarb"," "Circus", "Rodeo" and "Ramrod" missions more and more deeply in occupied territories (1941-43 sceneries), how many missions to flight!

[nearmiss]

I don't have any inside information...

I suspect the Med is next, because we could have done the COD without Italian aircraft and most people would have been content.

Look at the Italian aircraft in the COD. As I recall,... the same Italian aircraft were flown in the Med.

It really doesn't matter anyway, just talk of course.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Oleg is gone, we know it, but he did say: "Med after BoB 100%"....yes, a lot of time ago.

However now we don't need neither Moscow nor Malta but only The Battle of Britain, if possible.

[biltongbru]

+1 for the MTO, but then I just want to fly for the SAAF over North Africa :grin:


Me too; 1st squadron :)

Doolittle raider: I agree with you +1:)

[Chivas]

Oleg is gone, we know it, but he did say: "Med after BoB 100%"....yes, a lot of time ago.

However now we don't need neither Moscow nor Malta but only The Battle of Britain, if possible.

Oleg isn't gone, he is still the head of Maddox Games, and has never said the Med would be 100% the next addon. I do agree that the Battle of Britain should be finished before thinking about the next addon. Although I'm sure they are doing some preliminary work.

[150GCT_Veltro]

I'm quite sure about this Oleg's statement, but as said above is not so important now. However considering how is going BoB, The Battle for Malta would have been probably a better choice..."Water, water, everywhere"....

[JG14_Jagr]

I do agree that the Battle of Britain should be finished before thinking about the next addon.

You need to remember that 3D modellers don't do coding.. If I am employing a 3D modeller, I want him creating models all day every day. He will have a time line and a production schedule that is in parallel with the coders. There is no way you want to be paying a guy to do nothing just because his part of a project is done.. they move on to their next project right away.

You need to look at the big picture, fixing things will be the norma for the next 10 years. Every time an addon or new content is released there will be improvements, optimizations, new features, turning on features that are in but invisible to us now.. Its a long process.

Flight Sims require a HUGE investment of time and resources before you evr get the game to market. Its what has killed most true sims.. the model they are using is to give the engine 10 years of life..so they can continue to add new content and continue to generate revenue while they improve the whole package. If they have to keep going back to re invent the wheel you simply cannot afford to do it..

[HamishUK]

Oleg isn't gone, he is still the head of Maddox Games.

Are you 100% sure? All indications and posts indicate Oleg has left 1C or is this not the case?

Maddox Games after all is just a subsidiary of 1C (and has been since 1999). It's called 1C Maddox games which is 1C's usual way to add pattern before the name.

[Kerosine]

IF they do the MTO, I would rush to buy it. Fighters here recognised the MTO as a hell on earth, and the misfits elsewhere managed to make a name for themselves here, vide Beurling and Warburton, for instance.

I would certainly love such a sequel, or expansion pack maybe and I am confident that Malta would be played over and over if realistic battle scenarios are recreated - there could be Junker dive-bombing missions, BF109/FW190 escort missions, high-altitude bombing missions from RA/Luftwaffe, Night bombing raids, raids on ship convoys...(and that's just the Axis side)...from the Allied side you could be involved in missions ranging from recon to base defence, as well as skirmishes over northern Africa and southern Italy / Sicily. The potential is huge. I would love it. Then again, I'm Maltese. :)

A

[Tree_UK]

Are you 100% sure? All indications and posts indicate Oleg has left 1C or is this not the case?

Maddox Games after all is just a subsidiary of 1C (and has been since 1999). It's called 1C Maddox games which is 1C's usual way to add pattern before the name.

Oleg has gone and as been gone for some time, Luthier is now in charge of CLOD, thats why we no longer hear from Oleg. Chivas just got a little confused I think. :grin:

[Rickusty]

I would love a Med theatre add-on as well, especially since it has been a quite forgotten part of the war in computer games.

I don't know if anybody of you reckon it, but there was an air combat sim. based exclusively on the Desert fighting: the game was called "Desert Fighters". It was cancelled and it never came out, but I remember flying in the demo in the C.202 over northern africa in 1999 (I was in Canada at that time).

It could be something new and refreshing, as the original Il-2 has been for the Eastern front.

But... I would also love to see a France 1940 campaign, so...
Whatever will come out, I'll buy it. As long as it has propeller planes in it, I'll be sold for it :)

Cheers
Rick

[DoolittleRaider]

... Malta would be played over and over if realistic battle scenarios are recreated - there could be Junker dive-bombing missions, BF109/FW190 escort missions...


Just a minor technical point....I don't believe any FW-190's ever flew over/against Malta. FW-190's were in Tunisia Nov '42 through May'43, then later in Sicily engaged against the invading Allied forces there from July onwards.

So for a "Malta Campaign/Sequel" (1940-1942) or a "Malta-Greece-Crete-Libya Sequel" (40-42), no FW-190's would be needed in COD. A more expansive Sequel covering all of the Mediterranean including North Africa/Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy (say 41-43) would require additional aircraft such as FW-190, P38's, etc etc