Blenheim Mk IV start up ?

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Ok I'm making a real mess of this,here's my start up procedure please tell me where I'm going wrong.

1:Turn on fuel cocks x3
2:Open radiators x2
3:Turn on carburettor heats x2
4:Switch on magnetos x4
5:Switch mixture controls to half way
6:Switch throttles up to about 15-20%
7:press shift + 1 to select engine 1,press engine start button
8:press shift + 2 to select engine 2,press engine start button

At this stage the engines fire up but die,this is doing my head in please help.:confused:Thanks

[mcler002]

throttle too high?

try 5 - 10

the 2 wheel fuel cocks set to... inner (last option before close)

then you have to leave the engines running for around 10 - 15 minutes so that the oil temp goes up to 30 - 40 (so you may want to keep some of the "coolers" closed) before trying to taxi and take off....
if you try before, your'll notice the engines "over" rev/ struggling
if water rad hits 250oc+ your engines will begin to die!

took me a few trys :D

[skouras]

also watch your carburettor heats and mixture at high altittude:-)

[Siegfried]

My problem is that the plane turns heavy to right. i can't go straight on the runway... All rudder left, more throttle for right engine and the plane turns heavy to right...

[ytareh]

throttle too high?


then you have to leave the engines running for around 10 - 15 minutes so that the oil temp goes up to 30 - 40 :D


Seriously!?Oh my God thats ridiculous ...please Luthier 'fix' this !

[skouras]

Seriously!?Oh my God thats ridiculous ...please Luthier 'fix' this !

if in real life was like that
i have no problem:-)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Thanks guys this is all good stuff,I will endeavour to try again tonight.

[mcler002]

Seriously!?Oh my God thats ridiculous ...please Luthier 'fix' this !

The fix would be to have CEM off and temp management off :D

but yes... the waiting lol! argh!

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Mcler002, you've done it,Eureka!the throttle setting I had was too high,both engines fired up beautifully first time.

God I really struggled with this earlier,and I only had the throttles set a wee bit too high too,thanks boys,just waiting for the engines to come up to temperature,but both sounding nice!!

[LukeFF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noR_tw-FCM0&feature=channel_video_title

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

The third fuelcock is for crossfeeding. The Blenheim manual strongly suggests to leave it, unless it is really really necessary. Set mix to 'normal'. (almost all the way down) The manual also suggests to pull the boost cut-out lever and take off with +9Lb boost. But I think this fries the engine way too fast. Also, trim the nose slightly down for take-off, so the tailwheel comes off the ground more quickly.

The Blenheim is very sensitive in the engine management.

I got the Blenheim V manual from somewhere here:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/

This is a diffrent aircraft then the flyable Blenheim IV in the game, but the eninges should be the same.

Also, in the cross-country mission, you should reset the trim of your rudder as the first thing to do, before touching anything else. This seems to help!

[JG53Frankyboy]

this game needs a realism option "prewarmed engines", espacially for multiplayer

[IvanK]

The third fuelcock is for crossfeeding. The Blenheim manual strongly suggests to leave it, unless it is really really necessary. Set mix to 'normal'. (almost all the way down) The manual also suggests to pull the boost cut-out lever and take off with +9Lb boost. But I think this fries the engine way too fast. Also, trim the nose slightly down for take-off, so the tailwheel comes off the ground more quickly.

The Blenheim is very sensitive in the engine management.

I got the Blenheim V manual from somewhere here:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/

This is a diffrent aircraft then the flyable Blenheim IV in the game, but the eninges should be the same.

Also, in the cross-country mission, you should reset the trim of your rudder as the first thing to do, before touching anything else. This seems to help!

Blenheim V had Constant Speed props. The IV only 2 Pitch variable.

[O_Smiladon]

I can get her started ok but 1/2 ay across the channel is were i start getting a problum.

things start braking down ????


O_Smilaodn

[mcler002]

Is 109's classed as a problem half way across the channel? Be more clear please :D

As I have said already, if water temp goes above 250 then ur engines will die and fail! The water temp is above the fuel cocks ...

Until then, that's the only advice I can think off!

[IvanK]

Is 109's classed as a problem half way across the channel? Be more clear please :D

As I have said already, if water temp goes above 250 then ur engines will die and fail! The water temp is above the fuel cocks ...

Until then, that's the only advice I can think off!

They are radial engines they don't have Water temps, the gauges are Cylinder Head Temps (CHT) :)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I can get her started ok but 1/2 ay across the channel is were i start getting a problum.

things start braking down ????


O_Smilaodn

Yes now I that I can get her started up all ok,taxi and take off etc,this is a problem for me too.

I have my rads fully open as I know the engines are very prone to overheating,and as soon as I have taken off and she is in level flight,on course etc I throttle back to about 75% so to be careful not to over rev or damage the engines but alas she dies on me,not 100% sure why.

Obviously it's partly down to the engine temps because if I fly her with engine temps effects off,she does'nt do this.This is my last little wall to climb over and I do want to get this nailed.

[mcler002]

They are radial engines they don't have Water temps, the gauges are Cylinder Head Temps (CHT) :)

Thank you ... Was going over it all in my head...

Anyway ... The only other thing I can think of is that:

A) over rev'in the engines ... ?

B) maybe the oil temp is getting too low?

Again, on my blackberry so havnt checked myself nor googled it all lol

Cheers

[Flashman]

this aircraft definately has glass engines. Most time I fly it (or try to) i either blow the engines or can't get em started..despite using the same technique every time. I fly full real, CEM+temp.

However I have found with the blenheim that you need to hold the start switch down for a while rather than just pushing it. This makes starting much easier I find.

A manual would be handy so we can know the temp limits, boost and RPM limits as well would be most useful.

Also, is it a two position propr or constant speed?

[bando]

It's 2 position pitch, however, using a throttle quadrant, I can manipulate the pitch a little in the 40%-60% range. Effectively making this a variable pitch prop. One needs to be very subtle about it.

Been flying quite a few hours in the AC and I love the flying in it. Make sure your temps are 240 or lower. Above 250 your engine starts dying rather quickly.

Been doing a lot of touch and goes lately with her. Great fun.

[DocSigma]

My problem is that the plane turns heavy to right. i can't go straight on the runway... All rudder left, more throttle for right engine and the plane turns heavy to right...


I'm experiencing the same thing.Cant keep her straight, veer off runway, not enough power to get lift.. crash..

[Eklund89]

I managed the whole cross-country mission with the blenheim at full realism CEM + temp. took me 1h 51 min. the engines work fine at 7000 feet -2 boost 24000 rpm

[DocSigma]

How did you get her off the ground without her veering right into the forest or the hanger?

[ytareh]

if in real life was like that
i have no problem:-)

Thats practically the same as if the mission took 15 minutes to load from your hard drive!What the heck are ya meant to do for those 15min....fill in the pre flight checks?!Outrageous !

[mcler002]

Thats practically the same as if the mission took 15 minutes to load from your hard drive!What the heck are ya meant to do for those 15min....fill in the pre flight checks?!Outrageous !

Its not that bad ... Its when the ai can manage to taxi and take off within 5 mins of startin its engines... Gr damm cheat ai lol!

So again if you can't wait ai it or have cem and temps off!!

[Blackdog_kt]

Thats practically the same as if the mission took 15 minutes to load from your hard drive!What the heck are ya meant to do for those 15min....fill in the pre flight checks?!Outrageous !

There's nothing to fix here, air-cooled radials require warm-ups in real life too and they are also really difficult to start in cold weather.

In case you're interested in improving your engine handling methods and saving some time, here's a little method that i found works on most aircraft i've tried up till now. It doesn't take 15 minutes, much less in fact.
I tried it in a 109, taking off right behind the AI with a minimal amount of time warming up, so i started replicating the method and it has considerably shortened my warm-up times.

The trick is that you don't have to keep idling until the temps come up, in fact they never will reach optimal temperatures if you are idling too low. In a real aircraft in fact, there's a lower limit for idling (usually 800-1200 RPM depending on the engine) otherwise the spark plugs get dirty with unburnt fuel and other residue and that requires bursts of full throttle to clear (unless you keep idling too low and they become completely fouled, after that they need to be inspected by a mechanic).

This is also part of the reason for the run-up procedure, along with checking how the engine operates prior to committing to the take-off. The values depend on each aircraft/engine, as a rough guide you set pitch to full fine (high RPM) and advance throttle moderately but not fully with the brakes on and tail held-down (pull back on the stick), until you get about 2000RPM or so.
At that point, in a real aircraft you check the ignition system by disabling one magneto and checking how much the RPM drops, enabling both and letting the RPM stabilize, disabling the other magneto and doing the same RPM check, then again enabling both. This is not necessary in the sim, because there are no random failures modeled and both magnetos are working fine every time you spawn into the mission.

What it shows us however is that it's possible to use moderate power settings very shortly after start-up without causing damage to the engine. So, i decided to use this in order to shorten my warm-up times.

First, apply brakes and then advance the throttle for as long as your oil pressure doesn't skyrocket.
As the temps climb due to the increased power, the oil becomes thinner and pressure drops. At that point you can advance the throttles a bit more and so on. Within a minute or even less, you'll be having a minimum of 40-60 degrees oil temp which is just fine for taking off.

In a plane with a liquid cooled engine i can manage scramble-style take offs running flat out in less than 2 minutes. The air-cooled radials are a bit more temperamental and require some more warming up, but it's definitely less than 5 minutes if you take the time to experiment and find a method that works. I don't even close my rads to warm up and the plane is up and running in no time, i just need to watch the gauges to prevent the oil pressure from getting too high and starting leaks.

That's what this game finally simulates in a WWII sim and why i can't go back to IL:1946, despite CoD having a smaller planeset and bugs: the gauges in a real aircraft are not there for decoration purposes, so if i fly full switch i prefer the sim to reward players who pay attention to instruments and learn how to operate their aircraft.

The main problem is the lack of documentation, but i'm having an immense amount of fun experimenting and finding out what works on my own. Of course that's not everyone's cup of tea, so if you still don't like waiting for a warm-up or learning a few tricks by trial and error, just turn off temperature effects and enjoy yourself without having the extra workload to worry about ;)

[mcler002]

+1

[ATAG_Dutch]

+1

Ok, I'm fine with the start-up, but what's the secret to going straight down the runway?

Can't lock tailwheel, have only one throttle control, help please!:confused::(

[Blackdog_kt]

If you're trying the cross country mission, there's a couple of extra difficuties. First of all, i don't know if this is how it spawns in all missions, but in that one the Blenheim spawns with quite a bit of right rudder trim dialed in. There is a spring-loaded bar indicator on the bottom right of the instrument panel with the neutral setting clearly marked, dial in some left rudder trim until you get it to neutral and then some.

Most of all, in the cross country mission there's a significant crosswind from your right to deal with on top of the already existing pull to the right.

It's very visible if you try that same mission with the Tiger Moth which is lighter and easier to observe the effect of wind on. First it veers to the right with the engine still off, then as you apply power, start rolling down the runway and commence your take-off run you can see it's dipping a wing in accordance with the crosswind.

So it's not only the Blenheim's engines pulling right, it's the trim too and the crosswind. Out of all these the trim is the easier to correct. The pull by the props could be mitigated by mapping keys to select the engines separately and give more power to the right engine so that it wants to turn left and counteract all these effects. However, the crosswind is built into the mission's weather conditions.

I get the feeling that the default setting of "blenheim+crosswind that pulls the same way as the props" is meant as some sort of challenge. If you open up that mission in the FMB, remove the wind (set it to zero) and save it under a different name, i guess you'll have a much easier time ;)

[O_Smiladon]

With going down the runway just tap the brakes and she will com back on line, keep tapping till the tail lifts and then use your rudder.

works for me.

O_Smiladon

[ATAG_Dutch]

Sorry, I should have given more detail!

Yes, Blackdog, I'm in the Cross Country mission (but ended up doing it in the Hurri!)

This is with full left trim already dialled in, and tapping the brakes just means I lose too much speed.

Should the boost lever be in the 'down for on' position for take-off?

Edit: Maybe the idea is to taxi to the other end of the runway and turn, so that the crosswind helps instead of hinders. Will try later!

[Buzpilot]

Running from airstart, I have to keep rpm at bottom, to avoid engine failures.
And rpm gauges only show min 1600, but it's almost like engine control think it's 2xRPM, assuming it's really below 1400 rpm in cruise.

From a; Approval of Fairchild Bolingbroke Mk IV T, i read that rpm at takeoff should be at 2650 rpm, and thats impossible, even after a airstart.

Edit; I managed to run engines at 2650rpm, after i warmed up 15 minutes, but engines warmed up beyond 235C too fast, Cowl flaps maxed for air cooling didn't help at all.
So normal takeoff at 2650 rpm is impossible. And engines should be able to run 100% power at 2750rpm continously without overheating, so something is bugged here.

2.2 Engines
Model: Bristol Mercury XX air-cooled nine cylinder single stage Supercharged
radial rated at 820 hp for sea level take-off at 2,650 rpm and 4.25 lbs in2 boost
pressure. Each engine is fitted with dual Watford SP9-6 magnetos, a single
booster coil, a Claudel Hobson AVT.85MB carburettor incorporating
automatic boost and mixture controls and a Rotax E160 electric starter and
hand crank.

Source: http://www.caa.co.uk/aandocs/21124/21124020000.pdf

[AARPRazorbacks]

The video helped alot.
Only thing is How do you get the throttles to work togather. After I start the engines with shift 1 and I, then shift 2 and I the throttles work independently and not together. :confused:

Thanks ,

flyer01

[mcler002]

i recalibrate the controls so you can toggle the engines 1 - "8", that way you can select and deselect them as you like... but i think there should be a key allocated to 'select all engines'...

Ross

[Blackdog_kt]

i recalibrate the controls so you can toggle the engines 1 - "8", that way you can select and deselect them as you like... but i think there should be a key allocated to 'select all engines'...

Ross

Correct, i mapped this to shift ~ , so that i can easily reselect everything after pressing shift F1, I, shift F2, I.


Sorry, I should have given more detail!

Yes, Blackdog, I'm in the Cross Country mission (but ended up doing it in the Hurri!)

This is with full left trim already dialled in, and tapping the brakes just means I lose too much speed.

Should the boost lever be in the 'down for on' position for take-off?

Edit: Maybe the idea is to taxi to the other end of the runway and turn, so that the crosswind helps instead of hinders. Will try later!

I find the Blenheim's engines a bit fragile at continued high boost settings, so i try not to use the extra boost. I'm having trouble with that mission too, but in other missions (for example, the one named phoney war that another user uploaded in this forum for us) i have no problem at all.

That being said, after i first managed to get the Blenheim airborne in the cross country mission i upped the ante and i'm trying to do it with four 250lb bombs loaded. I haven't managed that one yet, so i'm going to try out your idea and take off in the opposite direction. ;)

[AARPRazorbacks]

i recalibrate the controls so you can toggle the engines 1 - "8", that way you can select and deselect them as you like... but i think there should be a key allocated to 'select all engines'...

Ross

Thanks for the help. After starting the engines in the normal shiff 1+I and shift 2+I I mapped to toggle engin 1 and it worked.

Now if I could just get off the ground.

Makes you wounder how many times did the real pilots crack-up before the got off the ground.?

Thanks again.

flyer01

[meplay]

I just made a mission using the same strip and it veers off to the right on that mission also, but doesnt do it on any other field :/

[JG53Frankyboy]

Makes you wounder how many times did the real pilots crack-up before the got off the ground.?



do you realy belive the real Blenheim behaved like that in the actual CoD version ??

[meplay]

Ok i made it across the channel...but my problem is i cant keep my oil temp on the right engine above 40%, i take off with rads open and carbs open get into the air flying for a few mins, my CHT is at 218 and ive got prop pith about half way down to keep my rpm at 2200 everything seems fine but then the oil temp on my right side drops to below 40, i closed rads on that side to try and bring it back up then open again because my CHT is getting to 250. Then it starts to drop again so on the right engine i set the prop pitch a little higher to try and keep the oil temp up which it does for a little longer but it still comes down :( any1 else getting this prob with oil temp:confused:

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

BTW if anyone has the 'Air Ministry' 'Pilot's Notes' on the Mk IV I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that we'd all like to see them,maybe it could be a downloadable PDF like many I've seen.

Anyway here's hoping someone has them and can share them.;)

[bando]

Ok i made it across the channel...but my problem is i cant keep my oil temp on the right engine above 40%, i take off with rads open and carbs open get into the air flying for a few mins, my CHT is at 218 and ive got prop pith about half way down to keep my rpm at 2200 everything seems fine but then the oil temp on my right side drops to below 40, i closed rads on that side to try and bring it back up then open again because my CHT is getting to 250. Then it starts to drop again so on the right engine i set the prop pitch a little higher to try and keep the oil temp up which it does for a little longer but it still comes down :( any1 else getting this prob with oil temp:confused:

I just let it drop below 40 degrees. Seems to have little impact. The cylinder head temp is the most important temp. Keep it below 250

[ATAG_Dutch]

I just made a mission using the same strip and it veers off to the right on that mission also, but doesnt do it on any other field :/

Maybe they built the field on the side of a hill?! :grin:

Me, I gave up and allowed the plane to turn into the wind and took off that way, just missing a couple of houses in the village down the hill.

Very hairy experience!

But it was to no avail, the starboard engine gave up the ghost after only a few miles.

Nor did I succed in a previous attempt to taxi to the other end of the runway and turn around.
The engines gave up before I could get there. This was after going to the shops and making a cup of tea whilst the engines warmed up, but they still hadn't got above 40 degrees oil temp and midpoint on the CHT.

I've also tried different throttle settings for each engine, different prop pitch for each engine, but nope, engine failures every time.

As an aside though, what is the necessity for carb heat?
I thought this was only used to prevent carb icing at altitude, or in very cold weather.:confused:

[meplay]

Maybe they built the field on the side of a hill?! :grin:

Me, I gave up and allowed the plane to turn into the wind and took off that way, just missing a couple of houses in the village down the hill.

Very hairy experience!

But it was to no avail, the starboard engine gave up the ghost after only a few miles.

Nor did I succed in a previous attempt to taxi to the other end of the runway and turn around.
The engines gave up before I could get there. This was after going to the shops and making a cup of tea whilst the engines warmed up, but they still hadn't got above 40 degrees oil temp and midpoint on the CHT.

I've also tried different throttle settings for each engine, different prop pitch for each engine, but nope, engine failures every time.

As an aside though, what is the necessity for carb heat?
I thought this was only used to prevent carb icing at altitude, or in very cold weather.:confused:

A little trick i do (i dont have a quadrant or duel throttle) is when i rev up to 100% with both engines then quickly select engine 1 then drop that to about 50% throttle then select both quickly and put the prop pith down to about a third (seem to cool it, im already rolling at this point) then push forward while keeping straight until the tail comes up then select engine 1 and send it to full throttle, then select both again for the flight out!

I think you've deff gotta get the oil temp above 40 though cos it feel rough and over revs if you havent :/

[ATAG_Dutch]

A little trick i do (i dont have a quadrant or duel throttle) is when i rev up to 100% with both engines then quickly select engine 1 then drop that to about 50% throttle then select both quickly and put the prop pith down to about a third (seem to cool it, im already rolling at this point) then push forward while keeping straight until the tail comes up then select engine 1 and send it to full throttle, then select both again for the flight out!

I think you've deff gotta get the oil temp above 40 though cos it feel rough and over revs if you havent :/

Yeah, that's one of the many things I've tried apart from coarsening pitch on the the roll.
I noticed on simple engine management that temps were about 50, so will try warming up to that and using your pitch technique.
If it works, I'll owe you a pint! :)

[Blackdog_kt]

The most common source of failure (especially if using differential thrust with the starboard engine running flat-out) is the prop governors.

I don't know how realistic the entire situation is with that mission, but what i do know is that the governors will fail on a real aircraft if the oil is cold and high power is used (as long as it's an oil-fed governor system), because oil viscosity is higher at low temps (ie, it's thicker), this increases the pressure and things start to break.

Now that i mention it, it reminds me of another little trick to try that's part of many real-world checklists. Even if the oil in the engine is warmed up, the oil in the governor might not be.
To ensure smooth running in aircraft that use oil-fed governors it's not unusual to do the so called exercising of the prop: once the engines warm up a bit to be able to generate some power without mis-firing, take it to a moderately high power setting to further help with warming-up (i'd say stepping on the brakes and using 0 boost or so would do it), then move the prop pitch levers back until you get a noticeable RPM drop (depends on the type of engine/aircraft, general aviation aircraft usually advise a 300-500 RPM drop), then forward again.

If 0 boost doesn't make the RPM needles budge, use a higher setting until you can get them to register some indication but not too high to cause problems. That's part of the reason that real-world checklists specify RPM limits for the run-up procedure. It is implied that pitch is at full fine but due to the low power the RPM is not increasing, then the pilot increases throttle until a certain RPM is reached and exercises the props to the specified RPM drop value.

What this does is command a pitch change from the governor which works by regulating oil pressure inside it. So, if you repeat this 2-3 times it has the effect of "recycling" the cold oil in the governor back into the engine where it's warmed, then back into the governor.

I haven't tested this yet (just thought of it) but i'll be pretty amazed if they modeled it.