spitfire snap roll

[whoarmongar]

I have been practicing with the spit but I have to admit im struggling with its flight model

Im trying to do snap rolls and snap half rolls and well to be honest theres nothing snappy about them. The manouver just seems turgid slow, and I cant find a way to make them better.

My usual technique just isnt working and worse if an middle of the attempt I reverse my controls it just goes into a spin, I have to say the flat spin model is quite good the nose pitches up and down quite violently its quite good fun but the spin recovery system seems just a bit too programmed. for example if in a spin nose down controls neutral throttled back the flight model seems it must perform a certain number of turns before any recovery is possible, until these prescribed number of turns have been completed no recovery is possible.

But getting back to the rolls why is the big application of rudder not stalling the one wing enough to flick the aircraft?
It seems that if you use say 8 oclock stick/rudder full , then quick reverse for recovery a full spin is the outcome, the stick back then forward full rudder is better but still not that much quicker than a simple roll,

I have to say the FM of the Spit just doesnt feel right to me, the hurricane seems nearer to reported characteristics, but the spit just doesnt, all reports I have heard say how the pilots loved flying it, how sensitive it was forward and aft, but how it seemed to talk to you through its controls. Obviously I can only go or others reports of the real aircraft. I dont like flying the Spit in CoD
Its a slow tempramental treacherous beast that seems to have no lovable characteristics. The hurri on the other hand is a lot more forgiving and trusty but is outclassed by the 109,but I still have a soft spot for it.

Oh and while on the subject of reliability I must mention the merlin engine
One pilot wrote something like "The merlin I abused and mistreated the merlin many times, I let it down lots, but It never let me down". In CoD it will blow up so easy I doubt it would ever have been certificated in real life.

I have sidetracked into a little rant and a few observations, so getting back on subject can anyone advise or teach me how to snap roll the spit ?

[kingpinda]

I'm going to try it some more today. I havent had any issues with it except I have to remember to pull stick backwards in the roll instead of forward to make the roll or else the engine will cut.

I'll see if I can come up with some instructions :)

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Will try too...

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Tested, felt the same result... after entering the snap roll, it develops a spin, even if inmediate exit procedure is applied at the moment to enter the snap roll.

It also happens with Bf-109 when full deflections are made... but not if partial deflections of the controls are done, I say that because when I'm in combat, sometimes I accidentally stall, but I can stop the accidental snap roll in a half roll... that's because I was not pulling the stick to the end :)

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's realistic or not for a plane like that, the only real snap roll I've seen is one from an I-16 with only two turns and a precise stop.

That is hard to evaluate... is there any Spitfire pilot here?

[AndyJWest]

I seem to remember from Spitfire pilot notes that snap manoeuvres were forbidden - perhaps because of the risk of spinning?

[whoarmongar]

After the initial post I tried with the 109.
The 109 was easier to control in the roll, counter rudder stopped the rolls progresion without inducing a spin.
But nothing I did made the Spit "snap" and the Hurricane was even slower.
To be honest I dont know if im trying to do something the aircrafts not capable of, but I have read that a snap half roll was a manouver used by spits to avoid a 109 attack as if the 109 tried to follow it had trouble pulling out of the subsiquent dive due to its controls stiffening up in high speed dives.

[whoarmongar]

I dont think pilots notes are valid for a combat scenario, Low level aerobatics and inducing spins are probably forbiden too, but that doesnt mean they didnt happen. "WARNING MAY CONTAIN NUTS" should be written below the cockpit on my Spit.

[TomcatViP]

I have been practicing with the spit but I have to admit im struggling with its flight model

Im trying to do snap rolls and snap half rolls and well to be honest theres nothing snappy about them. The manouver just seems turgid slow, and I cant find a way to make them better.

My usual technique just isnt working and worse if an middle of the attempt I reverse my controls it just goes into a spin, I have to say the flat spin model is quite good the nose pitches up and down quite violently its quite good fun but the spin recovery system seems just a bit too programmed. for example if in a spin nose down controls neutral throttled back the flight model seems it must perform a certain number of turns before any recovery is possible, until these prescribed number of turns have been completed no recovery is possible.

But getting back to the rolls why is the big application of rudder not stalling the one wing enough to flick the aircraft?
It seems that if you use say 8 oclock stick/rudder full , then quick reverse for recovery a full spin is the outcome, the stick back then forward full rudder is better but still not that much quicker than a simple roll,

I have to say the FM of the Spit just doesnt feel right to me, the hurricane seems nearer to reported characteristics, but the spit just doesnt, all reports I have heard say how the pilots loved flying it, how sensitive it was forward and aft, but how it seemed to talk to you through its controls. Obviously I can only go or others reports of the real aircraft. I dont like flying the Spit in CoD
Its a slow tempramental treacherous beast that seems to have no lovable characteristics. The hurri on the other hand is a lot more forgiving and trusty but is outclassed by the 109,but I still have a soft spot for it.

Oh and while on the subject of reliability I must mention the merlin engine
One pilot wrote something like "The merlin I abused and mistreated the merlin many times, I let it down lots, but It never let me down". In CoD it will blow up so easy I doubt it would ever have been certificated in real life.

I have sidetracked into a little rant and a few observations, so getting back on subject can anyone advise or teach me how to snap roll the spit ?

Spin : opposite rudder then push frwd stick gradually. - In a snap roll attempt you can prevent the plane from entering in a spin by pushing the the yoke frwd (kill that excessive AoA !). Many early WWII warplanes wre designed for recovering out of a spin by simply releasing the stick. Obviously teh recover was more lengthy than with the above technique.

Merlin : the merlin was difficult to handle - a bad point for a good SA at that time. Obviously experienced pilots did not hve such feeling as they were... experienced

IMHO Hurri hve been treated "à la IL2" to be the new SPIT of the series. She is more docile and easy to perform. This is a strong point for realism regarding history

Ctrl Cmd : a plane that was "easy and pleasant to fly" was not like today jets : no electronics, no mechanical damping, no advanced engineering. Planes used to grin and growl. That the way it was. Pull out the lion outside of that Kitty Pilot !