Why blue and red team?

[seiseki]

Why not Axis and Allies?
This has always kinda bothered me, since it makes me think more about Halo, Team Fortress 2 or somekind of arcade teambased game..

Also, if you take the colours of the allied flags and roundels into account, they're blue/red/white..

While the axis has red/white/black.. So it would make more sense for the axis to be the red team, and allies be the blue team..

Please, for the sake of immersion, get rid of this whole blue/red team deal and called them axis and allies.

[kimosabi]

Because...wait for it....some countries switched sides during the war. Not interfering with historical correctness, if you will.

[SlipBall]

Part of the reason is so that when using the map, controlled areas are easily viewed:grin:

[seiseki]

Because...wait for it....some countries switched sides during the war. Not interfering with historical correctness, if you will.

Wouldn't that make them allies then? I don't see the problem..

Also, WW2 online and most other games does this much better..
Red is a colour strongly associated with the Nazi regime, so red team being the axis would make a lot more sense..

http://img.jeuxvideopc.com/images/test/7132_3050_2333-world-war-2-online-battleground-europe.jpg

It would also be nice to see some actual roundels and flags in the GUI.

[Blakduk]

Wouldn't that make them allies then? I don't see the problem..

Also, WW2 online and most other games does this much better..
Red is a colour strongly associated with the Nazi regime, so red team being the axis would make a lot more sense..

It would also be nice to see some actual roundels and flags in the GUI.

LOL- what color do you think is associated with the Soviet Union???
Remember guys, this is a sim from a Russian developer so it would make perfect sense to them to consider the allied forces being RED.

It does make more sense to refer to Axis and Allied, especially when you get to the Pacific theatre. Red was definitely the color associated with the Empire of Japan.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Why not Axis and Allies?
This has always kinda bothered me, since it makes me think more about Halo, Team Fortress 2 or somekind of arcade teambased game..

Also, if you take the colours of the allied flags and roundels into account, they're blue/red/white..

While the axis has red/white/black.. So it would make more sense for the axis to be the red team, and allies be the blue team..

Please, for the sake of immersion, get rid of this whole blue/red team deal and called them axis and allies.

Good Grief.:rolleyes:

[seiseki]

Well the soviets would be the one exception..
But pretty much all the other large allied countries have red blue and white in their flags and roundels..

While none of the Axis has blue, but all of them have red.

One solution would be to always display the enemy faction as red and friendlies as blue or green.
And then use axies and allies for the teams.

[speculum jockey]

Calling the Soviets allies. . . hmm still doesn't sit right with me. I prefer, "The Enemy of my Enemy".

Any way, I think before we tackle this little colour issue, we should probably straighten out the whole, "Get the freaking game to run properly" issue.

Priorities you know!

[zakkandrachoff]

Why not Axis and Allies?
This has always kinda bothered me, since it makes me think more about Halo, Team Fortress 2 or somekind of arcade teambased game..

Also, if you take the colours of the allied flags and roundels into account, they're blue/red/white..

While the axis has red/white/black.. So it would make more sense for the axis to be the red team, and allies be the blue team..

Please, for the sake of immersion, get rid of this whole blue/red team deal and called them axis and allies.

because, in 2001 this sim call it Forgotten Battles: Russia (RED) Vs. Germany (Blue). catch it? it means red are the bad guys and blue the good ;)

[baronWastelan]

Who were the "Allies" exactly in July - Nov 1940? Let's start a list.

1. British Empire and British Commonwealth Nations
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?

[ATAG_Doc]

Some people couldn't make up their mind on which side they were on.

[Tempered]

Red and blue have always been used to represent two opposing forces. When you have players on both sides, you can't really say "Red is always the enemy" now can you?

Besides, the game is setup so as to allow any number of nations to be at war, either in a historical or fictional context. What if I wanted to make a scenario where Canada invades the U.S. Who would you call the "allies" and the "axis" then?

[Lixma]

Who were the "Allies" exactly in July - Nov 1940? Let's start a list.

1. British Empire and British Commonwealth Nations
2. Herman Goering
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?

[seiseki]

When you have players on both sides, you can't really say "Red is always the enemy" now can you?

Why not?
Lots of games have the opposite side as red and friendlies as green..

[FG28_Kodiak]

Blue vs Red is better than pink vs turquoise. ;)

[Sokol1]

because, in 2001 this sim call it Forgotten Battles: Russia (RED) Vs. Germany (Blue). catch it?

In 2001 this sim are only "IL-2 Sturmovik".

Forgotten Battles expansion come in 2003: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-2_Sturmovik_%28video_game%29

;)

Sokol1

[Pbs]

Red colour is always mean "friend" is Russia. Nazi, tommy, yankee and other enemies is blue. But for political correctness, England forces in this game is red. You should be proud of.

[baronWastelan]

2. US of A,

We could have let you ingrates starve, or fight the Germans off with sticks... Didn't see us exporting war materials to Hitler now did ya? We coulda been rich selling to both sides!

Can you tell us the "name" that the literature and news reports of 1942 - 1945 used for "The Allies"?

[Sauf]

2. US of A,

We could have let you ingrates starve, or fight the Germans off with sticks... Didn't see us exporting war materials to Hitler now did ya? We coulda been rich selling to both sides!

Ummm
"The year following the end of World War II, GE stood accused of criminal conspiracy with Krupp, a major German munitions firm. Their partnership artificially raised the cost of U.S. defense preparations while helping to subsidize Hitler’s rearmament of Germany. The arrangement continued even after Nazi tanks smashed into Poland."

"GM and Ford, through their subsidiaries, controlled 70 percent of the German automobile market when war broke out in 1939. Those companies “rapidly retooled themselves to become suppliers of war materiel to the Germany army,”

"A senior executive of General Motors also received a medal from Hitler"

[Wolf_Rider]

red/ blue corner from boxing/ wrestling matches.... Red being USSR in the early series il2

[kendo65]

because, in 2001 this sim call it Forgotten Battles: Russia (RED) Vs. Germany (Blue). catch it? it means red are the bad guys and blue the good ;)

I can't really agree that Nazi Germany were the good guys in WW2.....!?!

[kimosabi]

And Ivan Drago was wearing red trunks in Rocky IV.

[Foo'bar]

I can't really agree that Nazi Germany were the good guys in WW2.....!?!

Were there any good ones either?

[jg27_mc]

1. British Empire and British Commonwealth Nations
2. Herman Goering
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?

ROTFL :grin:

+1

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Nice revisit to a 10 year old convention, Seiseki. +1 for Balls.

I think a large reason to not change this is actually "tradition".

Traditionally these colors are etched in our brains and it's one less thing to worry with increased workload, detail, situational awareness that comes with a much higher fidelty simulation.

Keep it the same. No reason to change now.

S!

Gunny

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

Yeah, we're now a month or so into this game, let's change the colors of the teams!!!!!

[Furio]

Nice revisit to a 10 year old convention, Seiseki. +1 for Balls.

I think a large reason to not change this is actually "tradition".

Traditionally these colors are etched in our brains and it's one less thing to worry with increased workload, detail, situational awareness that comes with a much higher fidelty simulation.

Keep it the same. No reason to change now.

S!

Gunny
Well said. Totally agree with you, Gunny.
By the way, if you look at the matter from a political point of view, surely the colour for Fascists and Nazis was black, while you know who had Red Guards and the Order of Red Banner, and celebrated Red October.
By the way, 80% of war in Europe was Blacks versus Reds.

My opinion? Keep Red and Blue as they are, please. It’s just a fine Il2 Sturmovik tradition.

[pupo162]

Balls. Since when was Russia ever considered Europe? I take it you arent from Europe to say something stupid like that. Who gives a stuff about the Russians when you are playing a game about the Battle of Britain which was about the British against the Germans?

I couldnt give a damn about Il2 'tradition' either. For me the good guys are always blue and the bad guys are red, simple as that.

But for me playing 'blue and red teams' is a complete put off that immediately says to me I am playing a crap computer game and not a decent simulation. In real life it was all about the Allies and the Axis.

But if you want a decent 'tradition' WW2 model soldiers were always green for the allies and blue for the germans so why not do it like that - far more sensible that some unheard of IL2 tradition.

??

red = allies
Blue = axis

why complciate things?

[Kongo-Otto]

Why not Axis and Allies?
This has always kinda bothered me, since it makes me think more about Halo, Team Fortress 2 or somekind of arcade teambased game..

Also, if you take the colours of the allied flags and roundels into account, they're blue/red/white..

While the axis has red/white/black.. So it would make more sense for the axis to be the red team, and allies be the blue team..

Please, for the sake of immersion, get rid of this whole blue/red team deal and called them axis and allies.

I can see the lawsuit clearly in front of my eyes, filed for about 45 Gazillion Dollar from the Company which hold the rights for a game called "Axis and Allies". ;)
But why not, lets have another Northrop-Greedman style lawsuit.:rolleyes:

[kendo65]

Balls. Since when was Russia ever considered Europe? I take it you arent from Europe to say something stupid like that. Who gives a stuff about the Russians when you are playing a game about the Battle of Britain which was about the British against the Germans?

I couldnt give a damn about Il2 'tradition' either. For me the good guys are always blue and the bad guys are red, simple as that.

But for me playing 'blue and red teams' is a complete put off that immediately says to me I am playing a crap computer game and not a decent simulation. In real life it was all about the Allies and the Axis.

But if you want a decent 'tradition' WW2 model soldiers were always green for the allies and blue for the germans so why not do it like that - far more sensible that some unheard of IL2 tradition.

From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Geography

Russia is also the ninth most populous nation with 143 million people.[9] It extends across the whole of northern Asia and 40% of Europe, spanning 9 time zones and incorporating a wide range of environments and landforms.

Apart from that your post is quite possibly the biggest pile of bollocks I have had the misfortune to read on this forum.

[carguy_]

Why not Axis and Allies?
This has always kinda bothered me, since it makes me think more about Halo, Team Fortress 2 or somekind of arcade teambased game..

Also, if you take the colours of the allied flags and roundels into account, they're blue/red/white..

While the axis has red/white/black.. So it would make more sense for the axis to be the red team, and allies be the blue team..

Please, for the sake of immersion, get rid of this whole blue/red team deal and called them axis and allies.

Dude...it`s there since 2001. It friggin works. So why fix it? You have too much time on your hands.

[IceFire]

But if you want a decent 'tradition' WW2 model soldiers were always green for the allies and blue for the germans so why not do it like that - far more sensible that some unheard of IL2 tradition.

The tradition stretches back to IL-2 Sturmovik which was first released in 2001 and became a popular multiplayer game through that period into 2003 when Forgotten Battles was released. It's been Red for Allies and Blue for Axis ever since. Ten years... I'd say that's a fairly well established tradition as far as the digital world goes.

Green is an interesting choice for the Allies and I have seen that used before... nonetheless the pattern was set a long time ago (and it made sense then). It'll make sense in the context of this series when we head back to the Eastern Front. If the rumors are to be believed... we'll be heading back there reasonably soon too.

[proton45]

Their is the "RED FLAG" exercises that the Air Force runs...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_%28United_States_Air_Force%29


In this case the "Blue Flag" is friendly, and the "Red Flag" is hostile.

[Seeker]

2. US of A,

We could have let you ingrates starve, or fight the Germans off with sticks... Didn't see us exporting war materials to Hitler now did ya? We coulda been rich selling to both sides!

You were, you did.

Not that there's anything wrong with that sort of thing, of course.

[Viper2000]

We coulda been rich selling to both sides!

Really? What exactly would the Germans have paid with? I seem to recall that the Americans rather liked gold and colonial possessions as payment, and the Germans had been rather short on both since about 1919, and especially short of the former since about 1930. Indeed, had they not been, it's arguable that they might not have elected Hitler and started another war in the first place...

I was going to write down a list of Allies in 1940, but listing the various components of the Empire would have been tedious, and listing the rest of the Allies would have probably worn out the "F" "r" and "e" keys on my keyboard. So I won't.

[seiseki]

I can see the lawsuit clearly in front of my eyes, filed for about 45 Gazillion Dollar from the Company which hold the rights for a game called "Axis and Allies". ;)
But why not, lets have another Northrop-Greedman style lawsuit.:rolleyes:

That's like saying if you use the words 'call' and 'duty' in your game, Activision can sue you..

'Axis and Allies' is a name of a game, but that doesn't mean they can sue anyone using the names axis/allies for teams in a game..

Or perhaps I should make a game called Red vs Blue and then sue all other games using red and blue for teams..

[Blakduk]

Nats- your rant is actually very funny, and very wrong in so many ways (I cant be bothered pointing out how wrong, except to say that without the Soviet Union bleeding the Wermacht and Luftwaffe white there would have been no chance of the Allied nations storming into Europe).
When this series continues into other theatres of WW2 it will make a lot of sense to keep a simple colour scheme to set which side is which.
No-one is trying to rewrite history that Britain was communist, if that is what is bothering you

[ZaltysZ]

I dont want to play a red communist in the BOB and thats what the makers of this game seem to be suggesting I do. And I am sure many in the US will feel the same when they buy the game.

I just wonder then, how they feel having communist color in their flag? :grin:

[Blakduk]

LOL!- CoD is a communist plot.
They are using this game as a way to restart the cold war- thanks for enlightening me. Now i realise Oleg Maddox was a sneaky USSR operative making me play as a red communist ;)
On a more serious note- the intention all along has been that this game will be a series covering all the major theatres of WW2, so it would be unnecessarily confusing to swap colours depending on theatres. When Pacific Fighters came out it caused a lot of angst among those who were familiar with the history of the Pacific theatre to see the Japanese noted as blue. In the end it's not a big deal, but if you want to turn it into an argument about history i'm game (but the last time i did that the thread got deleted).

[ZaltysZ]

Like why on earth in the new patch missions setup you have a British flag for the red team and yet they dont have a German flag for the blue team? Seems a bit daft.

Don't forget Italy. It is UK vs Germany/Italy in CoD.

[Oktoberfest]

[QUOTE=baronWastelan;272720]Who were the "Allies" exactly in July - Nov 1940? Let's start a list.

1. British Empire and British Commonwealth Nations
2. Poles
3. Norway
4. Free French
5. Tchecoslovakia
6. Netherland
7. Luxembourg
8. USA

It's not because your country got invaded that all forces of that country stopped fighting against the common enemy. A lot of volunteers from other nations helped Britain to go on and survive during the BoB. Help was small in size, but huge regarding personnal investment of all those freedom fighters.

Of course, Britain held the last effort after the german invaded every other ally on the continent, but hey, without the channel, the RAF would have had tanks on their runways too.

Remember that it took nearly 5 more years to defeat the german, and roughly 25 to 30 million of more casualties...

[Daniël]

Luftwaffe radio codes
Blaue Truppen = own troops
Check this website: http://www.angelfire.com/pr/jg53/s3f.htm

That makes sense ;)

[Al Schlageter]

[QUOTE=baronWastelan;272720]Who were the "Allies" exactly in July - Nov 1940? Let's start a list.

1. British Empire and British Commonwealth Nations
2. Poles
3. Norway
4. Free French
5. Tchecoslovakia
6. Netherland
7. Luxembourg
8. USA



No USA until Dec 7 1941.

-------------------------

As for the red and blue, there is tradition there. Many war games (real life) used those colours.

[proton45]

Yes alright I admit it this thread is getting bloody stupid now. There are more important things to discuss that what colour the icons are.

Like why on earth in the new patch missions setup you have a British flag for the red team and yet they dont have a German flag for the blue team? Seems a bit daft.

It seems to me that the only color that "truly" matters here is...green. ;)




As for the red and blue, there is tradition there. Many war games (real life) used those colours.


Thats what I was saying....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_%28United_States_Air_Force%29

[Kongo-Otto]

That's like saying if you use the words 'call' and 'duty' in your game, Activision can sue you..

'Axis and Allies' is a name of a game, but that doesn't mean they can sue anyone using the names axis/allies for teams in a game..

Or perhaps I should make a game called Red vs Blue and then sue all other games using red and blue for teams..

Seiseki, it was said with a more humorous view on the topic. :grin:
but otherwise a good lawyer always finds a way to sue the crap outa you. ;)

[kendo65]

Nats- your rant is actually very funny, and very wrong in so many ways (I cant be bothered pointing out how wrong, except to say that without the Soviet Union bleeding the Wermacht and Luftwaffe white there would have been no chance of the Allied nations storming into Europe).
When this series continues into other theatres of WW2 it will make a lot of sense to keep a simple colour scheme to set which side is which.
No-one is trying to rewrite history that Britain was communist, if that is what is bothering you

I've tried to write an honest response twice now to nat's posts on this - and both times have given up and binned the efforts, as I realised the utter ridiculousness of what I was trying to put down in words.

The bolded part above gets the gist.

6 pages on this non-issue??!!

[seiseki]

Well, I play simulators for the immersion..
I want to feel like I'm in 1940 flying in the battle of britain..

Anything that adds immersion and historical atmosphere is important in my book..
But obviously performance takes priority right now..

[wannabetheace]

I just wonder then, how they feel having communist color in their flag? :grin:

+1

some western and us like to talk bullshits :rolleyes: just can't get over their propaganda, one side info, how poor they are.