Mini-update from devs

[Pbs]

On Russian forum from developers (not official statement):
В игре многое что отключено на данный момент, не соврать 50% кода в графике на данный момент отключено, со временем будем потихоньку включать.
Облака новые с сабскаттерингом, и погода, и до ландшафта дойдут руки.
Translation: at this point about 50% of features is off (just not ready), but devs will slowly add this features in game when it is ready. In future: new clouds with sub-scattering, new weather, landscape.

Also they say that current water is place-holder from DX9 version. New water will have a wave, surf, and will be transparent - you can see ships below waterline, submarine, bottom of the sea.

But right now they fixing bugs and work on optimisation.

[sfmadmax]

thats awesome. This game is going to be awesome in about 2 years or so.

[Heliocon]

On Russian forum from developers (not official statement):

Translation: at this point about 50% of features is off (just not ready), but devs will slowly add this features in game when it is ready. In future: new clouds with sub-scattering, new weather, landscape.

Also they say that current water is place-holder from DX9 version. New water will have a wave, surf, and will be transparent - you can see ships below waterline, submarine, bottom of the sea.

But right now they fixing bugs and work on optimisation.

Great news - I bet alot of the stuff is DX11 features they are working on too ;)

[senseispcc]

thats awesome. This game is going to be awesome in about 2 years or so.

Not really important we waited already nearly ten years for this game/simulation thus some months or a year more I do not care.
Thanks to all production team, a really great game/simulation. :-P

[Dano]

Excellent stuff, looking forward to seeing this grow as IL2 did :D

[recoilfx]

Great news - I bet alot of the stuff is DX11 features they are working on too ;)

Damn Heliocon, you just keep pounding on the DX11 part. I'm sure ppl get it by now :-D

[skouras]

thats awesome. This game is going to be awesome in about 2 years or so.

2 years
are you kidding me:evil:

[Chivas]

2 years
are you kidding me:evil:

It will probably be six months to a year to get what they have working properly with documentation. Depending on sales the sim the new series will constantly improve with completed features, new features, improve water, improved terrain, new clouds, new aircraft, new theaters for atleast another 10 to 15 years.

[lighthaze]

Well sounds good. Still, basically this is a confession that the game deliberately was released unfinished.

[Jotaele]

2 years
are you kidding me:evil:

He is realistic, i think the same, that doesnt means that Clod is not going to be better in a few months... just that in years it will be incredible.Just compare the original il2 to what we had actually (mods included).

[Langnasen]

Problem with it "being better" at some point in the future is we'll have played it so much by then, and been soured by it's problems for so long, we'll not enjoy it anywhere as near as much as we would have if it'd been playable out of the box. It's hard to articulate exactly what I'm getting at but I'm sure most of you know what I mean.

[Dundas]

I just want to be able to fix my tracers and convergence!

[[RS]Boomer]

Problem with it "being better" at some point in the future is we'll have played it so much by then, and been soured by it's problems for so long, we'll not enjoy it anywhere as near as much as we would have if it'd been playable out of the box. It's hard to articulate exactly what I'm getting at but I'm sure most of you know what I mean.

I agree, which is why I will only try and play it about once a week, so I don't burn myself out of this game. Otherwise when the new goodies come out it wont be that amazing because of the level of frustration reached playing with all the bugs in the game. I have high hopes for this game and look forward to the future patches:-)

[Baron]

Problem with it "being better" at some point in the future is we'll have played it so much by then, and been soured by it's problems for so long, we'll not enjoy it anywhere as near as much as we would have if it'd been playable out of the box. It's hard to articulate exactly what I'm getting at but I'm sure most of you know what I mean.


Thats how IL2 worked and thats how CoD will work. The good thing about that is that just when u are about to get "bored" something new will be added. Unlike say, Battlefield 2 for ex.


Or maby u want a "finished" game and all the support dropped as soon as it hit the shelf

[Rattlehead]

i didn't buy this sim to play it for 5 days and then forget about it.

I bought it in order to still be playing it 5 years from now.

[Hooves]

Thats how IL2 worked and thats how CoD will work. The good thing about that is that just when u are about to get "bored" something new will be added. Unlike say, Battlefield 2 for ex.


Or maby u want a "finished" game and all the support dropped as soon as it hit the shelf



+10

These people dont have any patience. Right now they are complaining that their 10 year old rigs wont play it, but instead of ponying up for new parts it MUST be the devs fault. If you played IL2 and know anything about that process, you wouldn't be crying like 4 year old girls right now. Trust me good things come to those who wait.

[ChrisDNT]

http://youtu.be/eZQyVUTcpM4

;-)

[Insuber]

Interesting voice from an ex-programmer of MG discussing with an actual programmer of MG, despite the poor translation you see a whole world:

http://translate.google.it/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sukhoi.ru%2F

KYA (ex MG)
Re: Graphics of the landscape, water, and all nazemki and its damage.
2 Misha.

I truly believe that the study of objects in the Sim should have been at a good level - higher than the world. The underwater part is justified if the show torpedo attacks.

I was pleased when the team you replenished and several programmers. I begged Oleg take you to the team ... entire year and a half. That you completed the project of new technologies, which we lacked, but did not expect that it will strike on technologies that were already at a high level, as a result, the acute shortage of staff, half of them vypihnut driven or kicked ...

Variations on the water you have not, afraid of the complexity of algorithms, apparently afraid that after my departure
You can not handle it. A similar situation with the clouds, the physics that did not I, but you can not remake it ... Research is more than a year ...
I wanted to deal with not only water but also the landscape, clouds, trying to contribute,
who constantly tried to throw out and remake of his - well, and have rudimentary details of the surface, the band at the junction of the blocks (T-junction), otsutvie reflection, abnormal function of height at the junction of the cliff, otsutvie shadows from cliffs.

My answer is why long does the water - she did not make a permanently altered, because
with permanent alterations of the landscape, the transition to the new graphics API. As a result,
version 2006 was irretrievably lost.
, Where 1 fps to clean water
This method of PR about glitches and 1 fps, we continue to write, especially against the backdrop of glitches and no FPS RELEASE bean. Alternative water which is now in a pod as FPS gives, it can still
1.5 times as easily accelerate. Alternative water that I offered (three-dimensional waves and surf)
in 2006, gives more than 60fps.
A simplified version of three-dimensional water with a submerged part of the surf and gave 40-70 FPS on the 260GTX.

In general, I do not pour filth, and constructive criticism.
If you would like to cooperate you have done this long ago.
And by offering a reward. So far I have not received the promised made in advance of
Six months ago ...

Shl Let's measure all results, including graphics IL2 4.09 vs graphics Bob. I'm more than a year do you no harm Bugs edit and optimize. Working in another firm for only six months, contributed greatly to the optimization of the graphics that rival was in full pope. http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews...s-review.ars/8
And you, you answer ... how FPSom

------------------------------
MuxaHuk 8actual MG)
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
I truly believe that the study of objects in the Sim should have been at a good level - higher than the world.</QUOTE>
This is assuming that in addition to these facilities, everything else that is needed for the Sim at least present. Water alone can not eat.
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
Variations on the water you have not, afraid of the complexity of algorithms, apparently afraid that after I left you and she does not manage. </QUOTE>
We're not easily frightened, but the players would be scared of 1 frame per second.
Time of Your water comes later. All will see and be sure to praise.
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
A similar situation with the clouds, the physics that did not I, but you can not remake it ... </QUOTE>
You are too emotional ... this prophecy? why write about what you did and did not even touch.
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
I wanted to deal with not only water but also the landscape, clouds, trying to contribute,
who constantly tried to throw out and remake </QUOTE>
Do you have enough time to do this if you like. But when you have already let out the game, the experiments are too risky, or else you can do indefinitely.
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
well, and have rudimentary details of the surface, the band at the junction of the blocks (T-junction), otsutvie reflection, abnormal function of height at the junction of the cliff, otsutvie shadows from cliffs. </QUOTE>
Lose their qualifications? Previously outright bugs determined by eye, and then just past.

<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
In general, I do not pour filth, and constructive criticism. </QUOTE>
I've noticed, especially you like to do it in public
</QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
If you would like to cooperate you have done this long ago. </QUOTE>
Agreed.
<QUOTE> Message from KYA (ex MG)
And by offering a reward. So far I have not received the promised made in advance of
Six months ago ... </QUOTE>
None of us knows what you did and for whom, really. You promised to finish the water, but a line was not up to you.

Reminded of the famous story of a doctor, who threw to treat hopeless patients left to die, and when the patient survived and began to recover, suddenly reappeared and began to criticize that the patient was treated incorrectly, that all should have been done differently, only he knows how it can be cured nobody else can.

Jura you a talented scientist, but your star fever stopping you.
----------------------------------------------------------------

hope all the best.

> You have promised to finish the water, but a line was not up to you.
You have refused (or rather, lead programmer) so I added these lines to the project. You have personally stated
that the algorithm is too complicated, and it is dangerous to insert. I wish I could give shader code into the studio and screens ...
but alas I have no right.


To deceive hung IMHO not intentionally, but simply not controlling the situation ...
Example 20 year old
Union is not August 19, 1991 at one point collapsed because of the notorious Emergency Committee, and by incompetent
governing authority in its "modernization" since 1985. Gorby, probably still do not understand how it happened, because everything was going so well ...

Shl I threw the patient or other doctors I have accused me of too much cleverness techniques and were not allowed on the threshold of the operating room.
From afar, I watched almost at random by the dying patient oprobyvayut different procedures, while realizing that dsotovernuyu medical history, which I wrote nobody wants to even casually glance ...

Before the release I was constantly offered help ... apparently incorrigible altruism ...
A critic in time, still under development, offering alternative solutions and it was a shame
that my experience of silt and strategic developments are ignored ... Instead of constructive debate dab in the myths about
1 fpse and Uncorrectable nothing glitch ...
I do not know how to break through this brick wall strange star ...

Thank you for the title of scientist, very sorry that I can not move in this direction, even now.

> Do you have enough time to do this if you like. But when you have already let out the game, the experiments are too risky, or else you can do indefinitely.

Time was, but the conditions were constantly changing in the engine ... The water for the engine in 2006 was very well done.
When going to release the game due to improper Management, it was not clear, it must be right to release tomorrow
and then again six months later. How to plan tasks.
Of experiments in Ile they do not interfere to improve graphics, varieties of water out there for starting with 3dfx.
Well, not only water, do not dwell on it

[Tvrdi]

+10

These people dont have any patience. Right now they are complaining that their 10 year old rigs wont play it, but instead of ponying up for new parts it MUST be the devs fault. If you played IL2 and know anything about that process, you wouldn't be crying like 4 year old girls right now. Trust me good things come to those who wait.

what about us with new and powerfull rigs and performance probs....heck I was a beta tester so I know how to optimise my system, overclock HW and resource free my OS, tuneup the game; but still have probs in the sim...its not smooth at all mate.....yep I have high FPS but thats means shhhh if hte sim isnt optimised well....some of the problems are coming from non existing vsync, fps limiter, but the real problem is unoptimised game......what would be online with more players if I have probs in single player with 3 planes above the land?

[Heliocon]

what about us with new and powerfull rigs and performance probs....heck I was a beta tester so I know how to optimise my system, overclock HW and resource free my OS, tuneup the game; but still have probs in the sim...its not smooth at all mate.....yep I have high FPS but thats means shhhh if hte sim isnt optimised well....some of the problems are coming from non existing vsync, fps limiter, but the real problem is unoptimised game......what would be online with more players if I have probs in single player with 3 planes above the land?

+1
What we are seeing in IL2 should not be problematic on modern rigs. The fact that there are no tree hitboxes but they "supposedly" (not idea if they do) track each bullet is insanse - you can track a bullet but not a tree?

[Flanker35M]

S!

From reading that discussion between the programmers it seems that CoD lacked firm leadership that kept on goal: release of the next gen sim. Too much was changed or something new tested all the time thus nothing was really finished properly and now release came. We got what we got. Not complaining, I enjoy CoD a lot even with it's bugs.

The mini update gives good indication what we will get, but frankly many of these optimizations should have been there from the start. Not added after release in a frantic patching schedule.

Anyways, greatly appreciate the updates as CoD is not abandoned :) Happy flying.

[luthier]

I just wanted to chime in on the posts from Mr KYA. He hasn't been with the company for almost 18 months, and I'm really not the kind of person who likes to air out dirty laundry and get into discussions of past faults and grievances. We had our differences, and we had our reasons for parting ways.

I'm not going to escalate this discussion, or rather not going to stoop to the same level and begin airing dirty laundry. I just hope everyone reading his posts takes them with a grain of salt, knowing they're coming from a disgruntled ex-employee. His opinion is perhaps a little biased.

I hope I won't ever have to say anything else on the matter.

[jibo]

we really don't care whether someone stole his samovar

[SG1_Lud]

I just wanted to chime in on the posts from Mr KYA. He hasn't been with the company for almost 18 months, and I'm really not the kind of person who likes to air out dirty laundry and get into discussions of past faults and grievances. We had our differences, and we had our reasons for parting ways.

I'm not going to escalate this discussion, or rather not going to stoop to the same level and begin airing dirty laundry. I just hope everyone reading his posts takes them with a grain of salt, knowing they're coming from a disgruntled ex-employee. His opinion is perhaps a little biased.

I hope I won't ever have to say anything else on the matter.

Thanks for the explanation Luthier. Most people will understand this as you said. The important thing is that there is a team working on it, and that you get enough income to keep developing. I believe the comunitty wont let you doWn if you persevere, as you are doing already btw. My Best wishes and good luck.

[Bartoszcze]

It will probably be six months to a year to get what they have working properly with documentation. Depending on sales the sim the new series will constantly improve with completed features, new features, improve water, improved terrain, new clouds, new aircraft, new theaters for atleast another 10 to 15 years.

Have you ever seen any game being on top for 10 to 15 years? This is a small exaggeration to say the least. In 10 to 15 years we will probably plug in little wires into our brains and fly over Cliffs of Dover while dreaming:)

[Ataros]

Have you ever seen any game being on top for 10 to 15 years?

Original Il-2.

And the new engine is built to last at least as long as original one. In this sense it is good that it came out "unfinished". All finished games are created to make quick money for a publisher and are forgotten in 12 months.

RoF and ArmA for instance were also issued "unfinished" which means they had potential to grow.

We all know that "constant beta" is a trend in software development for almost 5 years already, which means that projects are created with growth in mind and this is just fantastic as it opens new never seen before horizons!

[reflected]

So the horrible sounds and the awful AI are placeholders after all? Good to know that!

[baronWastelan]

So the horrible sounds and the awful AI are placeholders after all? Good to know that!

Easier to say "Cliffs of Dover" game is a placeholder for "Storm of War" flight sim.

[reflected]

Easier to say "Cliffs of Dover" game is a placeholder for "Storm of War" flight sim.

Hahaha, that was hilarious! :D

[Langnasen]

I just wanted to chime in on the posts from Mr KYA. He hasn't been with the company for almost 18 months, and I'm really not the kind of person who likes to air out dirty laundry and get into discussions of past faults and grievances. We had our differences, and we had our reasons for parting ways.

I'm not going to escalate this discussion, or rather not going to stoop to the same level and begin airing dirty laundry. I just hope everyone reading his posts takes them with a grain of salt, knowing they're coming from a disgruntled ex-employee. His opinion is perhaps a little biased.

I hope I won't ever have to say anything else on the matter.

And yet we get more of an idea of what went wrong by reading his comments than we do from any of the people still working on the game. I'm sure you've seen all the speculation on what happened, yet we hear nothing from the team to explain it. The strangest thing is it took you six years to release an unplayable game (the stuttering) yet only two/three weeks to fix that with the multicore revision. For the sake of those two/three weeks you could have averted the release disaster. I'm sure some will say "that's none of your business", but I have to differ, for obvious reasons. We paid our money and we still do not have a game...MP still does not work properly, and there is no campaign. And no, I do not call what has been provided even remotely a 'campaign'. It is an insult if I'm frank.

And frankness, Luthier, would win you much credit. The community, on the whole, would like to think of itself as your partner in this, rather than mere customers who have been sold a non-functional game (as it was until the multicore revision, and still is for those without multicore CPUs).

On a more positive note, it is, at least, my opinion that certain parts of the game are true genius. The DM is incredible. And the terrain, at maximum settings, is likewise. Other components, the sound particularly, are pale shadows by comparison. The bugs are just bugs, par for the course these days with most releases. The pseudo full-window...god knows what's going on with that. But after the multicore revision I have considerably more faith this sim can, and will, come good. It's just that I, and most others (be sure) would appreciate the courtesy of being given some idea of what went wrong. Everyone who put their money on the table did, after all, indulge in a risky investment. And I'm not talking only of the cost of the game but the significant amounts that were invested in new hardware (in my case over £1000).

Keep going Luthier. If you can make this game what it should have been at release it will become a true milestone in simming history. :)

[maxwellbest]

As above. Re that partnership thing. Hate to keep banging on about DCS and their products.....but.

[luthier]

And yet we get more of an idea of what went wrong by reading his comments than we do from any of the people still working on the game. I'm sure you've seen all the speculation on what happened, yet we hear nothing from the team to explain it.

Mr KYA is giving you an extremely skewed view on a very limited section of the game's development. Besides, he's been gone for 18 months. He's glossing over his own involvement in the project prior to his departure, and his opinion about the events afterwards is nothing but a guess.

Once again, I am NOT going to air out our dirty laundry. It's not because I see our relationship in a wrong way or I don't value you as both members and clients and fellow sim fans, but because this is simply not done. The only result of me going out here and telling you how and why would be me getting fired the next morning.

[Langnasen]

Mr KYA is giving you an extremely skewed view on a very limited section of the game's development. Besides, he's been gone for 18 months. He's glossing over his own involvement in the project prior to his departure, and his opinion about the events afterwards is nothing but a guess.

Once again, I am NOT going to air out our dirty laundry. It's not because I see our relationship in a wrong way or I don't value you as both members and clients and fellow sim fans, but because this is simply not done. The only result of me going out here and telling you how and why would be me getting fired the next morning.

Fair enough mate, if it would mean your job you have no choice.

[utu]

Thank you for your courtesy, Luthier, but I think that isn't a good idea to reply to the "dirty laundry", let your work speaks for you.

[Tvrdi]

Mr KYA is giving you an extremely skewed view on a very limited section of the game's development. Besides, he's been gone for 18 months. He's glossing over his own involvement in the project prior to his departure, and his opinion about the events afterwards is nothing but a guess.

Once again, I am NOT going to air out our dirty laundry. It's not because I see our relationship in a wrong way or I don't value you as both members and clients and fellow sim fans, but because this is simply not done. The only result of me going out here and telling you how and why would be me getting fired the next morning.

"Dirty loundry" is something which is not of my interest.....BUT since we actually bought a game - would be fair (from you) to stand up and say: Ok guys, sims is released (reason why?) unfinished, unoptimised, with vsync not working, full screen not working, placeholder sounds, with most features still locked/on hold....but we need your support/money....please donate, sim genere is dying so please be patient we will make this sim great....

INSTEAD of that, before release we got misleading answers from you like: "oh sounds (external) are great, much better than in old IL2"....then we saw movies where gameplay was smooth, no probs, no stupid antiepileptic filter, etc.....
So sorry Luthier ppl are angry and dissappointed with full right......
tbh, "dirty loundry" is not what would "bury" you....its the game released totaly not optimised and advertised as complete product...

[Insuber]

Dear Luthier,

Honestly, most of us understood long time ago the kind of issues that were going on behind the SoW: BoB scenes, with the repeated delays as a consequence of technical, planning and staffing issues. Mr. KYA's words are just adding some technical details to that picture.

On one hand I admire your courage and determination to finish the job begun by others (OM). Thank you for that, Luthier. On the other hand I join the people asking for a word of truth about this unsatisfactory state of affairs.

My suggestion: ask your management to agree upon a communiqué, clarifying the current status, the missing components currently replaced by placeholders (terrain, clouds, CEM, what else?) and the remedial actions (hiring staff, as declared by your colleague?). We are not speaking about the 69 euros of my CE, but rather than the credibility of 1C / MG and of the involved individuals, and in turn of the long term success of this series.

Believe me: telling the full truth to the customers, and a path forward to clear the issues, is less painful than letting them discover it by themselves, or learn it from frustrated ex-employees. Take action, please!

Cheers,
Insuber

[Ali Fish]

Dear Luthier,

Honestly, most of us understood long time ago the kind of issues that were going on behind the SoW: BoB scenes, with the repeated delays as a consequence of technical, planning and staffing issues. Mr. KYA's words are just adding some technical details to that picture.

On one hand I admire your courage and determination to finish the job begun by others (OM). Thank you for that, Luthier. On the other hand I join the people asking for a word of truth about this unsatisfactory state of affairs.

My suggestion: ask your management to agree upon a communiqué, clarifying the current status, the missing components currently replaced by placeholders (terrain, clouds, CEM, what else?) and the remedial actions (hiring staff, as declared by your colleague?). We are not speaking about the 69 euros of my CE, but rather than the credibility of 1C / MG and of the involved individuals, and in turn of the long term success of this series.

Believe me: telling the full truth to the customers, and a path forward to clear the issues, is less painful than letting them discover it by themselves, or learn it from frustrated ex-employees. Take action, please!

Cheers,
Insuber

thank you for putting what i cant into words. +1

[ParaB]

Dear Luthier,

Honestly, most of us understood long time ago the kind of issues that were going on behind the SoW: BoB scenes, with the repeated delays as a consequence of technical, planning and staffing issues. Mr. KYA's words are just adding some technical details to that picture.

On one hand I admire your courage and determination to finish the job begun by others (OM). Thank you for that, Luthier. On the other hand I join the people asking for a word of truth about this unsatisfactory state of affairs.

My suggestion: ask your management to agree upon a communiqué, clarifying the current status, the missing components currently replaced by placeholders (terrain, clouds, CEM, what else?) and the remedial actions (hiring staff, as declared by your colleague?). We are not speaking about the 69 euros of my CE, but rather than the credibility of 1C / MG and of the involved individuals, and in turn of the long term success of this series.

Believe me: telling the full truth to the customers, and a path forward to clear the issues, is less painful than letting them discover it by themselves, or learn it from frustrated ex-employees. Take action, please!

Cheers,
Insuber

Well said.

[reflected]

I agree Tvrdi and Insuber. Tell the truth, otherwise it's jsut guessing, panic, modding and whatnot. If we know that you are aware of the problems and have a plan to fix them then we can support you, whereas if we get a product that leaves a lot to be desired without any explanations you'll get nothing but whining - and rightfully so.

777 studios and Rise of Flight is a great example. They're very good at communication (didn't use to be tho) and they're getting a massive support from the grateful community.

[Triggaaar]

I just wanted to chime in on the posts from Mr KYA. He hasn't been with the company for almost 18 months, and I'm really not the kind of person who likes to air out dirty laundry and get into discussions of past faults and grievances. We had our differences, and we had our reasons for parting ways.Exactly, I wouldn't expect you to comment on things like that. Many of us have had different jobs, with both good and bad experiences, and it wouldn't ever make sense for employer and employee to rant about their differences in front of the customers.

And yet we get more of an idea of what went wrong by reading his comments than we do from any of the people still working on the game.What utter nonsense. All companies have some disgruntled ex-employees - sometimes those employees were wronged, but sometimes they were helped out because they weren't good enough or because they didn't fit into the team, or whatever. I'm not going to try and work out which is the case here, but either way, any disgruntled ex-employee (whether they were at fault or not) is going to have negative things to say about his ex-employer. I can't even be bothered trying to read all of that post, it's not relevant. And I don't expect the developers to spend all day trying to explain to us the inner workings of their team, or what arguements they've had together, and whose fault it is that the epilepsy debacle occured. What I expect is for them to listen to the constructive feedback and work on fixes, and they seem to be doing exactly that. If you think it's so easy making a sim of this quality (even if you think that's potential quality) then where are all the other examples? There aren't any are there.

And frankness, Luthier, would win you much credit. The community, on the whole, would like to think of itself as your partner in thisWhile many of us may feel may feel like more than a customer, many posters here are far less. All they want to do is whine about why the grass isn't as good as in Crysis, and blah blah blah, and some haven't even bought the game. So I wouldn't expect Luthier to treat everyone on this forum as a partner.

[Gerfaut]

...We are not speaking about the 69 euros of my CE, but rather than the credibility of 1C / MG and of the involved individuals, and in turn of the long term success of this series.

Believe me: telling the full truth to the customers, and a path forward to clear the issues, is less painful than letting them discover it by themselves, or learn it from frustrated ex-employees. Take action, please!


+1
... and couldn't agree more. common sense and crystal clear feeling about overall stakes.
*applause*
;)

C'mon Luthier, be strong.

[C_G]

Honestly, who cares what happened behind the scenes?
Is it reasonable to be upset that the game released is missing a number of features advertised And/or buggy?
Absolutely.
Why that was the case is an perhaps an interesting topic for speculation but I don't see how we have any right to know nor does the dev have an obligation to inform us about all the difficult decisions and troubles they may or may not have had.

The dev has an obligation to fix the problems And deliver on its advertised features in a timely manner it doesn't have to tell you what caused the problems.

[LcSummers]

Honestly, who cares what happened behind the scenes?
Is it reasonable to be upset that the game released is missing a number of features advertised And/or buggy?
Absolutely.
Why that was the case is an perhaps an interesting topic for speculation but I don't see how we have any right to know nor does the dev have an obligation to inform us about all the difficult decisions and troubles they may or may not have had.

The dev has an obligation to fix the problems And deliver on its advertised features in a timely manner it doesn't have to tell you what caused the problems.

1+

Look at Silent Hunter 5. One crapy patch and thats all.

And COD? 3 patches in 3 weeks. I really like this team trying everything to make us feel happy.

[41Sqn_Banks]

Let the devs concentrate on the game. There is no need to waste time on dirty laundry.

[BigPickle]

Honest Communication is all I want, no fibs to hold back the whining it always fails,

Its like telling a girl you like that you love her so you dont hurt her feelings, in the long run she is hurt more because she finds out its all been a lie.

This coummunity is a big rosie cheeked chubby girl Luthier :)

[FG28_Kodiak]

Let the devs concentrate on the game. There is no need to waste time on dirty laundry.
+1

I am not interested in recrimination, nor i am interested in exuses, i am only interested in solutions.

And again a complete waste of time thread in this forum.

[41Sqn_Banks]

I'd rather have a statement from Luthier what they are currently working on :(

[David603]

+1
What we are seeing in IL2 should not be problematic on modern rigs. The fact that there are no tree hitboxes but they "supposedly" (not idea if they do) track each bullet is insanse - you can track a bullet but not a tree?
Trees are a graphical feature which can be turned off. Hence for the sake of online gameplay and mission building they cannot have hitboxes.

[Insuber]

Honestly, who cares what happened behind the scenes?

Nobody cares.

Let's try again: we need an honest statement re. the current status of development, missing features and their status, and the plan to correct things so to have something similar to the advertised product. Simple.

Car makers, Intel and home appliance makers have learned long ago to communicate publicly the defects of their products and offer either a compensation or a fix. The position "do not disturb the driver" is simply not acceptable for paying customers.

Cheers,
Insuber

[David Hayward]

Those of you expecting the devs of this game to provide detailed information for every aspect of this game are living in a fantasy. No company is ever going to do anything like that.

[Rocka]

I have put this game in the shelf til it gets properly fixed. Not that I don't like it, on the contrary. But too many annoying bugs at the moment for my taste.

So was it worth the 50 Euros I paid? If it will help MG to fix this game up properly and give us what we all dreamed about, sure was!!!

Best luck to the team working their asses off to fix this mess, you'll get there one day!

[vicinity]

Those of you expecting the devs of this game to provide detailed information for every aspect of this game are living in a fantasy. No company is ever going to do anything like that.That's the problem with having a community who think they're part of the development process! They feel like they're owed something. :)

[BigPickle]

We are owed a game that we have paid for, simple.
They are making very good headway to give us that, but what people are asking is how far have we come on the process? how long to go etc? when people understand what work is being done regulary then the whining goes away, with detailed knowledge comes peace and quiet.
There is nothing disrepectful or rude about asking for this infomation

[David Hayward]

We are owed a game that we have paid for, simple.
They are making very good headway to give us that, but what people are asking is how far have we come on the process? how long to go etc? when people understand what work is being done regulary then the whining goes away, with detailed knowledge comes peace and quiet.
There is nothing disrepectful or rude about asking for this infomation

They appear to be providing all that info. The problem is that you're not getting every detail that you are demanding. In some cases it's probably because they don't know the answer (if they knew every detail the game would not have any bugs in it). In other cases it's probably none of your Fing business.

[C_G]

I think that 1C's response to date has been appropriate.

Luthier has provided us with a roadmap as to their patching priorities, the 1C team has provided us with two patches (as well as the betas of those patches) and has provided us with updates on progress at a frequency of at least one a week thus far.

My view is that that is perfectly adequate and certainly well above the norm compared to most developers. What more do we want? Daily updates? Micro updates on every portion of the patches to come? There has to be a balance between managing communication with the community and getting on with the work that needs to be done.

While I understand the frustration this release has caused, I think that OM/1C's past track record and current reaction to this fiasco of a release should earn them a little patience and respect. Just let them get on with it. To expect a higher frequency of updates is not realistic. A weekly update (not a weekly patch) strikes an adequate balance, imo.

[David Hayward]

The thing that kills me is the Su-26. There are actually people who are angry that a Su-26 was not included in a game about the Battle of Britain. WTF?

[jibo]

those open letters drama are behind ridiculous
the game is beta can't you just accept it ?

go back watching Oprah, gossip girls

[6S.Manu]

those open letters drama are behind ridiculous
the game is beta can't you just accept it ?

go back watching Oprah, gossip girls

Wrong, the game is not a beta... the game is incomplete. Two different things.

I'm going to wait, trying CloD for 20 minutes after every new patch release... just to see how the development is going on.

You can't beat something with nothing.

[CharveL]

Speaking of dirty laundry it sounds like many of you expect Luthier to iron your shirts for you.

I love to read the behind-the-scenes stuff as much as the next guy but they don't owe us anything beyond the game you decided to buy of your own free will at the time you bought it really. Of course they should and are obligated to make it live up to the product they sold it as but nobody held a gun to your head and told you to ignore the problems reported here since release.

It's a joke to think they should release some official document about the how's and why's of what went wrong over the past 8 years in the company. I'd like to hear about it just out of interest but it's hardly any obligation to them to tell anyone.

On a related note, the biggest shame here is how Oleg, being sort of the father and guiding hand of this sim, has been distancing himself from the game and community over what went on between him and 1C. All that work and he can't/won't share in the pride of what I still consider - despite the issues - to be an incredible piece of work. Maybe he's just catching his breath and will comment more in the coming months.

[BigPickle]

They appear to be providing all that info. The problem is that you're not getting every detail that you are demanding. In some cases it's probably because they don't know the answer (if they knew every detail the game would not have any bugs in it). In other cases it's probably none of your Fing business.

Crongrats on sounding like a real man. :grin:
I'm not interested in anything that isnt my business, only what is going to be in patches which is my business because i own the game.

[HamishUK]

+10

These people dont have any patience. Right now they are complaining that their 10 year old rigs wont play it, but instead of ponying up for new parts it MUST be the devs fault. If you played IL2 and know anything about that process, you wouldn't be crying like 4 year old girls right now. Trust me good things come to those who wait.

Idiotic remark.

When I spend money on something I expect to be able to play it especially when my rig beats the system requirements hands down.

I would love to see your face if someone sold you a car and then told you he will fix the engine in 6 months.

[HamishUK]

We are owed a game that we have paid for, simple.
They are making very good headway to give us that, but what people are asking is how far have we come on the process? how long to go etc? when people understand what work is being done regulary then the whining goes away, with detailed knowledge comes peace and quiet.
There is nothing disrepectful or rude about asking for this infomation

This.

[David Hayward]

Crongrats on sounding like a real man. :grin:
I'm not interested in anything that isnt my business, only what is going to be in patches which is my business because i own the game.

Then I don't see why you are complaining. There are regular updates from the devs posted on this board.

[vicinity]

Idiotic remark.

When I spend money on something I expect to be able to play it especially when my rig beats the system requirements hands down.

I would love to see your face if someone sold you a car and then told you he will fix the engine in 6 months.

Well the car company would fix the car because it's under warrenty, just as 1c will continue to improve/fix this sim as they have been doing already.

How about instead of using some car sale analogy you compare it to what it is, a piece of software with ongoing development. Did you really expect it to work perfectly for everybody on day one? Look at some other examples of games being realeased and left in their buggy state forever. Some people here actually want an apology for 1c releasing this amazing sim, it's amost hilarious.

[BigPickle]

I'm not dave, I'm trying to explain a way to stop the whining people are doing, by giving out the knowledge each week, you know what its like, "its thursday already and no update blah blah" I get tired of reading that crap too, but if 1C had been a little more forthright with some facts in the begining peeps wouldnt be nagging for info right now because they would trust the info will come is all I'm saying.
I'm loving the game since the latest patch, online is becoming more and more fun.

[C_G]

[QUOTE=vicinity;269846] Did you really expect it to work perfectly for everybody on day one? QUOTE]

Ummmm... perhaps not "perfectly" but it's not unreasonable to have expected it to work for more than 80% of customers with 90% of the functionality advertised. I'm a great supporter of 1C but I don't think anybody can argue that CloD was nowhere near that bar at release, nor is it near that bar now though it's getting closer.

To suggest that because many other developers release buggy and/or incomplete software makes it an acceptable practice is a self-evidently absurd argument.

That said, I'll restate my position that thus far 1C is doing a good job at correcting a lousy situation.

[David Hayward]

I'm not dave, I'm trying to explain a way to stop the whining people are doing, by giving out the knowledge each week, you know what its like, "its thursday already and no update blah blah" I get tired of reading that crap too, but if 1C had been a little more forthright with some facts in the begining peeps wouldnt be nagging for info right now because they would trust the info will come is all I'm saying.
I'm loving the game since the latest patch, online is becoming more and more fun.

I think they are being about as forthright as you could expect. Even if they gave out every detail people would still be whining.

[David Hayward]

I'm not dave, I'm trying to explain a way to stop the whining people are doing, by giving out the knowledge each week, you know what its like, "its thursday already and no update blah blah" I get tired of reading that crap too, but if 1C had been a little more forthright with some facts in the begining peeps wouldnt be nagging for info right now because they would trust the info will come is all I'm saying.
I'm loving the game since the latest patch, online is becoming more and more fun.

By the way, I think being too forthright cause some of the trouble they are seeing now. The Su-26 being the prime example. How many games do you think they sold by saying it would include the Su-26? 5? 10? Now that it isn't in there those 5-10 people are all complaining. It was not worth mentioning.

[C_G]

I'm not dave, I'm trying to explain a way to stop the whining people are doing, by giving out the knowledge each week, you know what its like, "its thursday already and no update blah blah" I get tired of reading that crap too, but if 1C had been a little more forthright with some facts in the begining peeps wouldnt be nagging for info right now because they would trust the info will come is all I'm saying.
I'm loving the game since the latest patch, online is becoming more and more fun.

I actually agree in fair measure with this statement. I think they could have opted for a paid beta (with a discount on the final release for those who shelled out for it). Most of the hard-core buyers would have been happy to pay to get their mitts on the sim even knowing that it was not a complete product, and would have been happy to help provide feedback to improve it.
Part of the dissatisfaction expressed on these boards is a result of mismanaged expectation.
We naturally expected a finished product, not one that would require some pretty fundamental patches to render it playable. This is the underlying reason people are pissed off.

That said, as I stated before, I think that OM and 1C have already established a pretty solid track record of supporting the IL2 series, they should certainly be given credit for that. There's a vocal minority who clearly won't be happy no matter how many updates they get so long as their particular pet peeve is not addressed.

Frankly, there's not much we can do about those people [except do our best to ignore them].

[vicinity]

To suggest that because many other developers release buggy and/or incomplete software makes it an acceptable practice is a self-evidently absurd argument. I'm not saying that it makes it acceptable, but any software ever realeased will have bugs, the amount of bugs will depend on many factors, complexity of software, timescale, funds etc. Everyone here knew the game would always be a WIP. They're doing there best to improve it yet people always want more.

I'm glad it's realeased and it's the best sim out there so that's why i'm not complaining. The sim lives up to my expectations and with time, probably most of the people on these forums expectations too.

[BigPickle]

By the way, I think being too forthright cause some of the trouble they are seeing now. The Su-26 being the prime example. How many games do you think they sold by saying it would include the Su-26? 5? 10? Now that it isn't in there those 5-10 people are all complaining. It was not worth mentioning.

But thats my point there dave, i think the problem is trust, some people dont trust them and this has brought on all this whining.
I'm not defending all the ranting because it doesnt achieve anything and i'll be honest and say I was guilty of this too when i bought the game and it didnt work, but quite frankly at the time quite rightly so as i could even run the game.
Since then they have bought the game very much up to speed to an acceptable level for my pc, but alas i digress.

My honest opinion of why there is so much complaining is a trust issue, they are finding it hard to trust the company who in reality said there was quite a lot of things on the box that are not there.
Sorry but I cant blame them for that, but I dont blame 1C either because i do think it had a lot to do with the Epi filter crap that they were forced to put in the game and in doing so had to remove 50% of the game according to some sources, thats a massive amount of game, so that's gonna run havoc with the code.
So win back the trust with a routine and this moaning will stop.

[David Hayward]

But thats my point there dave, i think the problem is trust, some people dont trust them and this has brought on all this whining.


People don't have any choice but to trust them. We don't have any other options. There is no one else producing WW2 flight sims.

Having said that, I think 777 is hinting that they might do a WW2 sim. If they do it will be probably be loaded with bugs at release. It's just the nature of the beast.

[[MAG]Pappy]

The situation as it exist now is that those that purchase the game have paid for a Release Candidate (RC). Even at that I would not rate this game as an RC. Looks more like a beta version.

From what I can tell the developers ran out of money and are selling an unfinished game to get an influx of funds.

[BigPickle]

Dave maybe thats why there is the whining, between a rock and a hard place, though i think its nothing to do with flight sims i think some people now have the "believe it when i see it" bug.

Tthe IL2 community is sounding so dispondent, even after the first IL2 Sturmovik with its bumpy start people people didnt appear to seem so fed up, the only reason i joined the forum in 2007 was because that was when i had saved for a new pc so i could run the new IL2 46, before then i just read the forums.

But maybe your right, maybe we've been just spoilt for choice, who knows all i know is....its thursday evening and there's still no info update dagnabbit!! :-P

[Heliocon]

I just wanted to chime in on the posts from Mr KYA. He hasn't been with the company for almost 18 months, and I'm really not the kind of person who likes to air out dirty laundry and get into discussions of past faults and grievances. We had our differences, and we had our reasons for parting ways.

I'm not going to escalate this discussion, or rather not going to stoop to the same level and begin airing dirty laundry. I just hope everyone reading his posts takes them with a grain of salt, knowing they're coming from a disgruntled ex-employee. His opinion is perhaps a little biased.

I hope I won't ever have to say anything else on the matter.

If the bugs get ironed out and the product deliverd I will always be here to buy it and expansions, I think we are seeing progress although it still seems to me alittle unsure - but the community will support you if you keep the lines of communication open and address the issues.

[Heliocon]

Trees are a graphical feature which can be turned off. Hence for the sake of online gameplay and mission building they cannot have hitboxes.

... Or just have an option to add trees and then an option for hitboxes...? Make sense?

[David Hayward]

Heliocon, do you really think they're not working on a faster algorithm to track tree collisions?

[Strike]

People don't have any choice but to trust them. We don't have any other options. There is no one else producing WW2 flight sims.

Having said that, I think 777 is hinting that they might do a WW2 sim. If they do it will be probably be loaded with bugs at release. It's just the nature of the beast.

Actually... I'd rather be seeing a day where perhaps 777 studios could create one of the expansions for this sim in a partnership with Maddox games where they would get the SDK and go crazy with it, then have maddox games do the final quality assurance.

[BigPickle]

hmm that brings up another subject of the SDK, how will us fans be able to use it and make user made mods if the mods will get us a permanent ban from steam?

[David Hayward]

Actually... I'd rather be seeing a day where perhaps 777 studios could create one of the expansions for this sim in a partnership with Maddox games where they would get the SDK and go crazy with it, then have maddox games do the final quality assurance.

It depends on whether there is a large enough market for 2 companies. It also depends on what kind of games you want to see. If all you are interesting in is WW2, and the market is not big enough for 2 companies, then it might be better if they worked together. If the market is big enough for 2 companies, you will probably get better initial quality if they are competing.

I'd like to see them work on different eras (like they are doing now). Korea, Arab/Israel, and Vietnam could all be updated. I'm willing to deal with lower initial quality in order to get more varied subjects.

[jibo]

777 may very well do a less hardcore sim, EAW type game, we have room for that and it would be great, but jason is more interested into jet sim for now

[Strike]

It just recently slipped into my head now. What would it be like, piloting the B-17, in IL-2 CloD expansion in the future? Think about it. 10 crew positions, full switch cockpit, norden bombsight, .50 cal turrets, damage model!!!, fire extinguishers, perhaps manual opening of bomb-bays and lowering of wheels in a different crew-position than the pilot's view. You could basically release a SINGLE third party expansion and call it B-17. Fly huge online Co-ops over germany/france against 190's, 109's and such.


Or imagine skimming the wavetops in a F4U firing those six .50's at japanese merchants etc with advanced ship damage models, perhaps set off internal cargo such as munitions etc.


Or fly an IL-2 over the russian farmland hunting for armor divisions and roll in on the attacks strafing, firing rockets all over the place.

I just cannot wait until the day the first expansion is released, say you get to climb into a 109 F-4 trop version or something and fly over the med, hunting gladiators, hurricanes, spits and such.

The future could/will be AWESOME!!

[Rattlehead]

It just recently slipped into my head now. What would it be like, piloting the B-17, in IL-2 CloD expansion in the future? Think about it. 10 crew positions, full switch cockpit, norden bombsight, .50 cal turrets, damage model!!!, fire extinguishers, perhaps manual opening of bomb-bays and lowering of wheels in a different crew-position than the pilot's view.

Piloting one of those huge bombers like the B-17 and B-24 is something I have been aching to do for a very long time.
If we get the chance in the new Il-2 I will be one seriously happy camper.

[David Hayward]

Flyable B-17 would be VERY cool. Does anyone know why they never included it in IL-2?

[Strike]

Yeah like I said. We already have 4 engined planes in CloD, we could certainly do with a B-17, lancaster or something alike to be able to carry out some industrial bombing. It would be awe-inspiring to see the world of IL-2 through a pilot/gunners point of view, especially with the nice new flak effects and ground explosions. Makes for a much more realistic setting too with the new damage model. You could sit inside the B-17 and look out of the gaping holes from your gunners position :p would be awesome!

[Lixma]

I've been really pleased to see the bombers so well represented in CoD. There really wasn't any need for the Br-20 in the scheme of things and yet there it is. Hopefully the trend will continue. If the series moves to mid/late-war Europe then maybe a 'Heavies' expansion pack might be in order.

[ATAG_Doc]

I just peed my pants. Thanks

[IceFire]

Flyable B-17 would be VERY cool. Does anyone know why they never included it in IL-2?

It's a huge amount of work to make one? Several gunner positions plus the cockpit, bombsight and if they were to do it right the navigators position possibly too. A big job... several people in the third party arena have started B-17 projects but I've never seen or heard about one being finished.

So that would be why.

Plus as far as being useful in multiple theaters around World War II (Africa, Pacific, Europe, China/Burma, etc.) the B-24 is the real workhorse.

[David Hayward]

It's a huge amount of work to make one? Several gunner positions plus the cockpit, bombsight and if they were to do it right the navigators position possibly too. A big job... several people in the third party arena have started B-17 projects but I've never seen or heard about one being finished.

So that would be why.

Plus as far as being useful in multiple theaters around World War II (Africa, Pacific, Europe, China/Burma, etc.) the B-24 is the real workhorse.

I understand the time issues. It just seems like a flyable B-17 would have been worth the time. Same goes for the B-24.

[Ctrl E]

Any chance we could get a proper update on the timeframe for the next patch and what it will likely include?

[dali]

It is becoming more and more apparent, that COD has no future. The ammount of things which are not working as they should is just growing each day as people play it longer and longer. I like some parts of it, but generaly, is it realy big step from IL-2? I don't think so. Its not just the stuttering, low fps and other "technical" problems, this sim is missing a complete roadmap, to me it looks like a trip without a plan. And this insight from ex programmer (is it a coincidence that another key person announced his new plans at aproximately same time?) just shows that at certain point in development certain features were disabled (clouds for instance) because the thing was unplayable... I've done a lot of beta testing in my life for several projects, some games, some serious stuff, and COD at the time of release was just not ready, could be called advanced alpha at the best....and I more and more belive, that it never will be ready, because its not only the "broken" stuff which could be improved, but it is the general feeling which is, I'm sorry to say, pretty negative.

What keeps me wondering is emphesise on wrong features. Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..but at the same time blunt sounds, problematic AI and FM, tracers, envronemt (weather), game content are named placeholders?

Recent development is certainly not reasuring.

Before fanboys launch their attacks...I have quite a lot of flying time under my belt, from gliders to jet aircraft and considerable experience in project managment and execution...and I played Il-2 series from day one...

[Heliocon]

It is becoming more and more apparent, that COD has no future. The ammount of things which are not working as they should is just growing each day as people play it longer and longer. I like some parts of it, but generaly, is it realy big step from IL-2? I don't think so. Its not just the stuttering, low fps and other "technical" problems, this sim is missing a complete roadmap, to me it looks like a trip without a plan. And this insight from ex programmer (is it a coincidence that another key person announced his new plans at aproximately same time?) just shows that at certain point in development certain features were disabled (clouds for instance) because the thing was unplayable... I've done a lot of beta testing in my life for several projects, some games, some serious stuff, and COD at the time of release was just not ready, could be called advanced alpha at the best....and I more and more belive, that it never will be ready, because its not only the "broken" stuff which could be improved, but it is the general feeling which is, I'm sorry to say, pretty negative.

What keeps me wondering is emphesise on wrong features. Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..but at the same time blunt sounds, problematic AI and FM, tracers, envronemt (weather), game content are named placeholders?

Recent development is certainly not reasuring.

Before fanboys launch their attacks...I have quite a lot of flying time under my belt, from gliders to jet aircraft and considerable experience in project managment and execution...and I played Il-2 series from day one...

+1 - Exactly what I have been saying since release - there seems to be a serious lack of oversight/planning and they spent way too much time on features they cannot currently implement or even think about implementing. You dont invest time into modeling and programming things that you cannot integrate into the game. The same lack of planning is apparent in the devs comments over time and the lack of important features (like being able to fly around buildings...) without a huge and absurd hit to the fps.

[David Hayward]

Before fanboys launch their attacks...I have quite a lot of flying time under my belt, from gliders to jet aircraft and considerable experience in project managment and execution...and I played Il-2 series from day one...

Why would anyone attack you? You don't like the game. So what? Anyone who watches video of the game can make up their own mind about your evaluation of the game.

[dali]

its not that I don't like it and express it. I'm saying all of this because I like some things in it, I like Il-2 series and I would realy, realy like COD to become mature peace of software. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to express my concerns...

[Heliocon]

Why would anyone attack you? You don't like the game. So what? Anyone who watches video of the game can make up their own mind about your evaluation of the game.

You need to stop this silly paradigm of "if someone criticises the game or the devs they dont like the game". Its simply not true, its a case of either:1. They bought the game and feel they did not get their moneys worth and therefore want to devs to improve it OR 2. They care about the game and its progress/success and are here to try to help bring light to the issues and possible fixes, or even just to throw in their 2 cents which if everyone does will help the game (not your $ but your honest opinion).

[David Hayward]

its not that I don't like it and express it. I'm saying all of this because I like some things in it, I like Il-2 series and I would realy, realy like COD to become mature peace of software. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to express my concerns...

I think we'd all like it COD to improve. You apparently don't think that is going to happen. I have no idea why you feel that way. I'm also a (current) programmer, and I don't see anything about the current game that can't be fixed. You feel otherwise. So what?

The thing I don't understand is why you feel the need to tell everyone that you think the game is doomed. Do you also enjoy torturing kittens?

[David Hayward]

You need to stop this silly paradigm of "if someone criticises the game or the devs they dont like the game". Its simply not true, its a case of either:1. They bought the game and feel they did not get their moneys worth and therefore want to devs to improve it OR 2. They care about the game and its progress/success and are here to try to help bring light to the issues and possible fixes, or even just to throw in their 2 cents which if everyone does will help the game (not your $ but your honest opinion).

I don't need to stop anything. As long as you feel the need to launch pointless attacks on the game, I'm probably going to keep defending it.

By the way, I'd love to know how "all is doomed!" posts are going to help the game?

[Space Communist]

Idiotic remark.

When I spend money on something I expect to be able to play it especially when my rig beats the system requirements hands down.

I would love to see your face if someone sold you a car and then told you he will fix the engine in 6 months.


For your analogy to actually work, we would have to be talking about the last car on Earth, and only by paying this person for the car could we ever drive at all.

It this case the only sensible answer to "It will be fixed in 6 months." is "well, ok then."

[lbuchele]

I don't need to stop anything. As long as you feel the need to launch pointless attacks on the game, I'm probably going to keep defending it.

By the way, I'd love to know how "all is doomed!" posts are going to help the game?

I think the same way of David.
It's beyond my comprehension what kind of help to the game we can do acting like the prophet of Apocalypse...
We all know at this time that the game was released unfinished,you are a bit late in telling us.
But we all are seeing too the huge improvement the game received in a short time from release.
So,you maybe are pissed off with MG staff and believe me I am too,but clearly the game is growing,not dying.
But you can't see this if you don't want to see...

[Heliocon]

I think the same way of David.
It's beyond my comprehension what kind of help to the game we can do acting like the prophet of Apocalypse...
We all know at this time that the game was released unfinished,you are a bit late in telling us.
But we all are seeing too the huge improvement the game received in a short time from release.
So,you maybe are pissed off with MG staff and believe me I am too,but clearly the game is growing,not dying.
But you can't see this if you don't want to see...

Who is late in telling you? Me? If you are talking about me I actually have a pretty good track record with predictions as to specific problems and remedies. David is just to lazy to go back and read them because all he does is troll anyone who has any criticisms of the game.

[ChrisDNT]

"Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..."

+1 and I'm not happy to say that.

Too much developing time has been lost on non vital features or elements.
Just an example, the Me108. I personnally do like this aircraft, but what is its purpose in a combat sim, as it was a liaison aircraft.

[JG14_Jagr]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

[JG14_Jagr]

"Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..."

+1 and I'm not happy to say that.

Too much developing time has been lost on non vital features or elements.
Just an example, the Me108. I personnally do like this aircraft, but what is its purpose in a combat sim, as it was a liaison aircraft.

I think you will find that they have a stable of 3D models that may not be fully integrated into the game, but they are in some state of completion.. When 3D artists are done with one project and they are still being paid you assign them another project.. The guy that did the Me108 was not doing that instead of coding the multiplayer, or coding the CEM system... Totally different skill sets.

[602Sqn.McLean]

JG14 Jagr that was well said. I agree with everything you've written. I have been on the Il2 sim for the last 10 or so years and it did get better and better. This will too and I must say it certainly has come forward leaps and bounds over the last few weeks. You only have to read my posts to see that I went from a madman going nutso to someone who is enjoying what we have at the moment, knowing that other fixes will come. I really really really want multiplayer to be fixed but now I'm prepared to wait.

Doesn't mean I'm happy that many things didn't work at the start but now I'm more relaxed about it. :-)

[Baron]

i've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what cod developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in beta testing falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. And after putting in enormous amount of work, hardware 3d came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3d engine. The scope of it was massive as is cod.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.i'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3d technology and cpu powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3d war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. Some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. And the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the epilepsy filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. Since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played il2 from the beginning and still do. And i can see the core potential of this sim to take over where il2 has left off. There is 100x more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. Their priorities are in order.. Performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that pc flight sims are a dying breed.. You won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for ps3 and xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. You need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 us. The game is not where i want it to be, but i understand that it can be more than i ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

+100

[Flanker35M]

S!

So in short a good sim spoiled by crap allocation of resources and too much staff coming and going? Just hoping CoD will lift off and the potential of the engine is unleashed, gradually and with time. Quantity is not quality, especially in a flight sim.

[Strike]

Am I the only one here who is astounded at how we have super-detailed planes with super-detailed damage models and we are able to run missions with like 200 aircraft AI controlled and NO lag? Try doing so in IL-2 1946... I am really impressed at whatever coding has gone into making so many advanced aircraft run smoothless on a PC that struggles with IL-2 1946 and more than 40 aircraft

[Langnasen]

Am I the only one here who is astounded at how we have super-detailed planes with super-detailed damage models and we are able to run missions with like 200 aircraft AI controlled and NO lag? Try doing so in IL-2 1946... I am really impressed at whatever coding has gone into making so many advanced aircraft run smoothless on a PC that struggles with IL-2 1946 and more than 40 aircraft

200 planes? BS. Most I've managed is 130+ planes, and the slowdowns, as I've recently found, are severe (unplayable). 125 He111s with 18 Me110s as escort can bomb London ok, but I had to remove the 24 Hurries that intercepted them because I was seeing 6fps regularly. The CPU can handle only so much abuse.

[Strike]

Well, perhaps not whilst bombing London...

Still, point is that IL-2 struggles more with less planes. That is what I've found out.

[dali]

what we have right now is more or less empty shell and with its set of problems. Both technical and design ones. I can accpet that some people are big fans and are happy even with empty buckett, hoping, that it will be filled by somebody in due time...but that somebody has to have budget. Budget doesn't come with poorly managed game development. So it will not be my fault if COD series is no more because I criticise it, but it will be 1C, Maddox games (whatever has left of it) and project manager's fault.
Oleg Maddox has made himself quite a respectable name in domain of combat flight simulation, I'm sure he will make sure it remains so. with this or any other project.

[addman]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

+1

One of the most sober and level-headed posts I've read on this forum for a looong time. I agree with everything written above. Stop looking for scape goats and answers, above are your answers albeit not from an official source.

[esmiol]

+1

[BigPickle]

I think we have digressed again big time. So i'll bring it back on track.

When is this mini update out?

[Viking]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim..

etc
+1
I will bye a copy when I get home from vacation next week. In september I will hopfully have the hardware and time to get airborne. 1C should have started with a civil air project IMHO. A more mature audience. Kids today are to much focused on quick fixes and rapid gameplay.

See you all in the ether in september!

Viking

[David Hayward]

Who is late in telling you? Me? If you are talking about me I actually have a pretty good track record with predictions as to specific problems and remedies. David is just to lazy to go back and read them because all he does is troll anyone who has any criticisms of the game.

Helicon, "all is doomed!" and "the devs are stupid!" posts are not nearly as specific or predictive as you seem to think they are. I've read your posts. They are unfailingly pointless.

This is a perfect example:

+1 - Exactly what I have been saying since release - there seems to be a serious lack of oversight/planning and they spent way too much time on features they cannot currently implement or even think about implementing. You dont invest time into modeling and programming things that you cannot integrate into the game. The same lack of planning is apparent in the devs comments over time and the lack of important features (like being able to fly around buildings...) without a huge and absurd hit to the fps.

Exactly what part of that whine-fest is going to help improve this game? Where are the remedies?

[Baron]

200 planes? BS. Most I've managed is 130+ planes, and the slowdowns, as I've recently found, are severe (unplayable). 125 He111s with 18 Me110s as escort can bomb London ok, but I had to remove the 24 Hurries that intercepted them because I was seeing 6fps regularly. The CPU can handle only so much abuse.



Yes what a bust, AAA + 18 Me110 + 125 He111 bombing LONDON with 30 bombs each = 3750 bombs, and u get slowdowns.


Seriously, someone need to sack those hack programmers over there.

[recoilfx]

Helicon, "all is doomed!" and "the devs are stupid!" posts are not nearly as specific or predictive as you seem to think they are. I've read your posts. They are unfailingly pointless.

This is a perfect example:

Exactly what part of that whine-fest is going to help improve this game? Where are the remedies?

David, unfortunately, all of us will bear none stop whining for a long while. That's just how it is with an unfinished game.

It's not about conversations being productive - for every person that buys the game and feels cheated, they will vent. For every fan that has been following CloD for years, they will vent even more. For every fan boy post, there will be a countering whining post.

Perhaps we should create a Criticisms sub forum, this way mods can easily move the de-railed threads into that forum and let the conversations go on there. In any case, you are free to not read these threads, as it's pretty clear by the first post how the whole thread will turn out.

[Baron]

what we have right now is more or less empty shell and with its set of problems. Both technical and design ones. I can accpet that some people are big fans and are happy even with empty buckett, hoping, that it will be filled by somebody in due time...but that somebody has to have budget. Budget doesn't come with poorly managed game development. So it will not be my fault if COD series is no more because I criticise it, but it will be 1C, Maddox games (whatever has left of it) and project manager's fault.
Oleg Maddox has made himself quite a respectable name in domain of combat flight simulation, I'm sure he will make sure it remains so. with this or any other project.


Yep, and that would probably be very useful knowing when/if there are no developers doing WWII combat flight sims.

[David Hayward]

David, unfortunately, all of us will bear none stop whining for a long while. That's just how it is with an unfinished game.


I know, and I have decided to respond to some of the more relentless whiners.

[rollnloop]

Yes what a bust, AAA + 18 Me110 + 125 He111 bombing LONDON with 30 bombs each = 3750 bombs, and u get slowdowns.


Seriously, someone need to sack those hack programmers over there.

BoB2 can do over 400 without slowdown, and it's what, 5 years old, 6 ?

[JG52Krupi]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

Due to this brilliant level headed post I decided to further the course of CoD and brought my brother a copy of the game even though his pc probably wont be able to run it :D

[Baron]

BoB2 can do over 400 without slowdown, and it's what, 5 years old, 6 ?


U mean this BoB2?

Honestly?

[addman]

U mean this BoB2?

Honestly?

Nice sandpa....ehrm! landscape!:grin:

[Lixma]

I wish they could transplant WOV's campaign into CoD (or IL-2 for that matter).

[LcSummers]

I for my part was and i am a simmer. Started with the first "sims" on a C 64 i for myself can say i cant see WWII sims en masse and i am very happy to own another great sim. I speak only for myself

So i see what huge step forward the dev team made. I really love the detail i find on these great airplanes and the love its in it and was/is made by the team. Luthier knows that this sim is not finished but there is a roadmap he wrote down and the first thing that has to be done is performance. Sure i cant wait for the add ons or the Bf 109E-4 or hopefully one time the Westland Whirlwind. But i am confident that this sim has a great potential.

I do not want offend anybody, this is my personal view. I am really pleased to play it now, two weeks ago it was unplayable for me, sure i turned off clouds, shadows and grass but its very well playable for me. Sure i miss clouds, shadows etc but i know and i have seen it with the latest patch luthier wont let me down and i wont let him down or critisize him in any way.

Salute and to all a Happy Easter.

[Heliocon]

Helicon, "all is doomed!" and "the devs are stupid!" posts are not nearly as specific or predictive as you seem to think they are. I've read your posts. They are unfailingly pointless.

This is a perfect example:



Exactly what part of that whine-fest is going to help improve this game? Where are the remedies?

I just said exactly what the other poster said - just more concisely. As usual you behave like a childish fanboy, so tell me what did I post that was incorrect? Do you think that the game was released early? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the rescources spent modeling the tanks and ground details such as grass could be better spent optimizing the rendering of buildings in the distance and reduction of lag? Yes or no please.
Do you think the combat animations and the other content that is not implemented such as the tank animations and models, or pilot bailout animations could of been better spent upgrading the water detail or giving us a functioning weather system? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the time spent on displaying each bullet hole in a arframe visually where it hit could of been better spent by refining the AI or improving performance? Yes or No please.

As usual all you do is troll, its getting really tiresome/childish. I have made plenty of complements to the devs and when they get something right I always give them credit. Also I dont criticise unless I have a suggestion/solution, its kinda sad you completely overlook any evidence/info you disagree with and come in to irritate others who are legitimatly discussing a product they have invested in. Also love as usual you make a statement pulled from thin air because you are too lazy to read, everyone one of the major problems we have in game I said before the game was even released would be a problem, also they way they are fixing it is the way I more or less suggested. On release you bitched/flamed me because I said the game and dev feedback smacks of a lack of long term planning/structure/efficiency. I would say the majority agree with me there, so its comical you pick out my post to whine about when everyone else here said nearly exactly the same thing (the game was released to early and wasnt developed in a efficient manner interms of content/optimization). Also I never said the devs were "stupid" (because you make up bullshit quotes all the time, it makes you look like an ass hat) I said before release the methods they are using are not only not inline with what they themselves said earlier - but would not provided the experience that they wanted for the game and created an overly narrow base for expansion.
Dont really expect a reply to this because you nearly always slink off after trolling and I have never seen you post more than a few sentences in a row.

[David Hayward]

I just said exactly what the other poster said - just more concisely. As usual you behave like a childish fanboy, so tell me what did I post that was incorrect? Do you think that the game was released early? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the rescources spent modeling the tanks and ground details such as grass could be better spent optimizing the rendering of buildings in the distance and reduction of lag? Yes or no please.
Do you think the combat animations and the other content that is not implemented such as the tank animations and models, or pilot bailout animations could of been better spent upgrading the water detail or giving us a functioning weather system? Yes or No please.
Do you think that the time spent on displaying each bullet hole in a arframe visually where it hit could of been better spent by refining the AI or improving performance? Yes or No please.

As usual all you do is troll, its getting really tiresome/childish. I have made plenty of complements to the devs and when they get something right I always give them credit. Also I dont criticise unless I have a suggestion/solution, its kinda sad you completely overlook any evidence/info you disagree with and come in to irritate others who are legitimatly discussing a product they have invested in. Also love as usual you make a statement pulled from thin air because you are too lazy to read, everyone one of the major problems we have in game I said before the game was even released would be a problem, also they way they are fixing it is the way I more or less suggested. On release you bitched/flamed me because I said the game and dev feedback smacks of a lack of long term planning/structure/efficiency. I would say the majority agree with me there, so its comical you pick out my post to whine about when everyone else here said nearly exactly the same thing (the game was released to early and wasnt developed in a efficient manner interms of content/optimization). Also I never said the devs were "stupid" (because you make up bullshit quotes all the time, it makes you look like an ass hat) I said before release the methods they are using are not only not inline with what they themselves said earlier - but would not provided the experience that they wanted for the game and created an overly narrow base for expansion.
Dont really expect a reply to this because you nearly always slink off after trolling and I have never seen you post more than a few sentences in a row.

Sorry, I wasn't running from you, I was living my life.

I think the devs worked on the things they felt were important. If that doesn't match up with what you feel they should have been working on, I do not care. It's not your game. When you produce a game like this, you can set the priorities.

In the meantime I'm sure we'll see the constant bitchfest. Good luck with that.

[Zoom2136]

It will probably be six months to a year to get what they have working properly with documentation. Depending on sales the sim the new series will constantly improve with completed features, new features, improve water, improved terrain, new clouds, new aircraft, new theaters for atleast another 10 to 15 years.

I hope they sell "plane packs" to supplement their income. That is what I would do, release some paid addons. I have no problem with that. Just keep the price decent.

[kendo65]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

Hits several nails square on the head.

Should probably be made a sticky....:)

[philip.ed]

U mean this BoB2?

Honestly?

The landscape in BoB2 looks better than Il-2 1946 from altitude, so go figure.
Plus....
the campaign is better
the skins are better
the sounds are largely better
the AI is the best ever
and the last four points apply to CloD as well. :cool:

2-weeks, be sure.

[rollnloop]

U mean this BoB2?

Honestly?

Too dark to say, could be any sim with such a dark screenshot.

I mean this BoB2

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy296/cherkasov54/Day%20by%20Day%20Campaign/Dover.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_651.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_279.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_423.jpg

Sure, doesn't look as good as CloDo, but then again it's an old game, and it can handle adlertag, that CloDo can't (yet).

[pupaxx]

Too dark to say, could be any sim with such a dark screenshot.

I mean this BoB2

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy296/cherkasov54/Day%20by%20Day%20Campaign/Dover.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_651.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_279.jpg

http://www.a2asimulations.com/bob_dev/PaulPics/xshot_423.jpg

Sure, doesn't look as good as CloDo, but then again it's an old game, and it can handle adlertag, that CloDo can't (yet).

+1 ...and the speech engine is awesome!

[moilami]

Maybe I am a fanboy but I pretty much like IL-2 CoD. Would play it much more if I would get my TrackIR 5 back from guarantee replacement procedure.

I find it hilarious to read forums when I remember how people touted they would play 500$ or what not if they could become a beta tester of IL-2 CoD.

IL-2 CoD is here to stay (hopefully), and maybe the best thing You can do to help IL-2 CoD to stay would be to begin to make missions, skins, and stuff for it.