CoD AI cheats by ignoring the laws of physics ...

[hockeywarrior]

I don't know about you guys, but lately I've had some serious trouble having fun in dogfights lately due to the crazy-impossible maneuvering of the AI in this game.

So far I've noticed the most BS in AI BF109 pilots. Whenever I start to pursue one of them, they start rolling an insane speeds and stopping their rolls on a DIME. They are also mysteriously capable of pulling off truly insane downward spins without any recovery time. I've also heard from one of my friends who owns the game that AI in Blenheims is also ridiculous, maneuvering their bombers like they are fighters or something.

It really kills the immersion for me when my enemies don't follow the laws of physics! For me, it's even worse than it was in IL2 1946. I pray the devs fix this.

[rollnloop]

Spitfire AI uses flaps in combat, too, and tried to play low speed scissors against a Bf109 :rolleyes:

[angrueo]

I completely agree with you. I don't like to see Blenheims rolling as F15s.
But maybe I'm wrong and they got this maneuver capability in RL, who knows.. :rolleyes:

[ChocsAway]

Posted this in the 'Bug' thread earlier. Me109 with F-16 roll-rate!!

1. Strange AI/DM/FM behaviour - I was in a 3 plane tail chase, that is AI Spitfire, then AI ME109, then me in a Spitfire. I got off several good bursts into the 109 and eventually his engine and canopy area erupted in a large fireball. He continued to chase the AI spitfire whilst he was a fireball for at least 3 minutes without seemingly any performance loss or wanting to bail out of what must have been an inferno for the pilot! Eventually the tail fell off of the 109 and it spiralled downwards and crashed without the pilot bailing out! I need to add that whilst I was chasing this 109 and he was jinking to evade my gunfire his roll-rate was easily up there with an F-16 even at high speed! This is something I'd not noticed pre-patch and I feel that AI roll rates need to be adjusted. I'm also pretty concerned that several 109's let me blast them good and proper before deciding to take any evasive action. This was almost like a delayed reaction. This happens a lot (not only with the 109) and is one of the biggest immersion killers in the sim IMO.

[ChrisDNT]

It looks like the old (very old) AI routines from IL2 !

[Blue Scorpion]

The AI in il2 where artificially boosted beyond realistic levels, it was done to make up for the poor ai not being able to compete with human players. It effectively rendered offline campaigns useless, as it was impossible to maintain formation manually without burning out the engine, and I did not buy that game to watch the ai fly for me. It also meant than any offline combat was nothing more than arcade fantasy rather than a simulation of air combat of the period.

I had not really looked at the ai in COD yet as I am waiting for ffb before I commit any real time to the sim, but if the ai is boosted here too, that is just pathetic, and another reason to shelve it permanently. If Rowan could produce a decent simulation of the BOB with many more aircraft in the air, without resorting to this sort of horeshit, there really is no good reason 10 years on to do so, it removes any notion this is a sim that can be taken seriously.

[hockeywarrior]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is noticing all this stuff. It REALLY kills the immersion in the game when the enemy is doing crap like this, not to mention makes it much harder to play than it should.

[Heliocon]

Wow really? Why brag about the AI and its LOS but then have it cheat with physics? I mean if this is true about the AI, then there is NO point in having a FM/DM, because if it only applies to you then its worse then having a WOP/super simple model. This is absurd.

[Oldschool61]

I don't know about you guys, but lately I've had some serious trouble having fun in dogfights lately due to the crazy-impossible maneuvering of the AI in this game.

So far I've noticed the most BS in AI BF109 pilots. Whenever I start to pursue one of them, they start rolling an insane speeds and stopping their rolls on a DIME. They are also mysteriously capable of pulling off truly insane downward spins without any recovery time. I've also heard from one of my friends who owns the game that AI in Blenheims is also ridiculous, maneuvering their bombers like they are fighters or something.

It really kills the immersion for me when my enemies don't follow the laws of physics! For me, it's even worse than it was in IL2 1946. I pray the devs fix this.

Maybe they are FOO Fighters!!

[SQB]

note that when the 109's try to roll beneath your nose they are rolling with rudder and elevator, its not just a flat (aileron) roll but a proper barrel roll. I see no problem with it, although maybe I don't have such a problem...

[hockeywarrior]

note that when the 109's try to roll beneath your nose they are rolling with rudder and elevator, its not just a flat (aileron) roll but a proper barrel roll. I see no problem with it, although maybe I don't have such a problem...
There is nothing wrong with barrel rolls but what I am seeing is ridiculously fast rolls that only a modern jet fighter could pull off. What's worse is that the plane does not suffer any reduction in speed or miraculously doesn't go into a crazy spin as a result.

I don't understand why the AI can't obey the laws of physics like the rest of us. I'd rather have less challenging AI than artificially boosted ones. I hope this is a PRIMARY concern for the devs to fix, because I expected it not to be brought over from IL2 1946. I actually think it's worse in this game ...

[Friendly_flyer]

All reports of "super rolls" came after the last patch, and non before. I guess something got broken in the patch. Samte thing happened in one of the IL2 patches, and it was quickly amended by Oleg & Co.

[seaeye]

I've have also noticed some bad AI. When chasing down the Blenheims in a 109 in the bomber intercept Calais mission, they drop their bombs and then start rolling all over the place, inverted flight etc... The worst of it was that out of the 14 or so aircraft, 9 or them crashed into eachother as a result of this behaviour. Not just a one off either, seems to happen quite alot...

[BigPickle]

I've seen this when i made a mission too, to test this it can be recreated anytime by making a flight of blenheims i used 20, take off and given no way points.
When they are all in the air circling they will start doing some crazy rolling away like how fighters peel away from formation in the movies.

[Fall_Pink?]

Agree, I see the same. Maybe now after the performance of CoD is much better, other bugs that were hidden will now come to light. Afterall, CoD is now for the first time actually playable and just tried my 1st campaign ;-)

I've seen similar AI behavior for bombers. They behave sometimes a bit like ufo's and can change direction quite rapidly. Something they should not be able to when I understand the law of physics.

Another bug seems to be fighters that shoot at none existing targets. Their target is there, but 20 or 30 feet below or above.

Now that CoD performance is acceptable (it will need further optimization I think) for most of us, I see errors that look like synchronization errors that are caused by the game engine. I have sometimes missing sounds, wrong sounds for objects that I'm viewing, fighters that shoot at blank targets.

It's not just AI I think. It's the coordination/orchestration between the different threads that does not run in sync.

Rgs,
FP

[Pyrres]

I think parts of the problem is that the AI is now so much more flexible. I mean that AI pilot that is not a good shooter will shoot all over the place, and an AI that is good at piloting might just be able to make those recoverys or crazy moves etc etc. And bombers doing the crazy manouvers is for the most part realistic. Some manouvers that look like high g manouvers might be just a bit over 1g and when you are diving after a target over 700kph it might look like the target is turning extremely rapidly because of the speed difference and the closing speed.

I think on the most part it is realistic and real. I have not been in a war, but if you are about to die, I would think you would do anything to survive. Even if it meant going over your planes limits. Oh and I have not seen those crazy rolls yet, so there might be a bug but I have not seen that yet.

[Ctrl E]

There is nothing wrong with barrel rolls but what I am seeing is ridiculously fast rolls that only a modern jet fighter could pull off. What's worse is that the plane does not suffer any reduction in speed or miraculously doesn't go into a crazy spin as a result.

I don't understand why the AI can't obey the laws of physics like the rest of us. I'd rather have less challenging AI than artificially boosted ones. I hope this is a PRIMARY concern for the devs to fix, because I expected it not to be brought over from IL2 1946. I actually think it's worse in this game ...

This is what is most annoying to me too. I chased a hurricane down to the deck yesterday in a 109 and could not keep up. He did extreme barrel rolls all the way down - very fast and would have Ben impossible in real life

[TeeJay82]

Zomg!!!! AI ufo`s

[SacaSoh]

Yeah, i think the AI had taken the red pill and based on morpheus teachings can circumvent physics laws now.

And since the 1.0 version the AI (both Pilot and Gunner) sometimes shoot 20m away from a (relatively) motionless target, if i stay still behind a bomber, the gunner will shoot up or below the plane...

[Tiger27]

The AI in il2 where artificially boosted beyond realistic levels, it was done to make up for the poor ai not being able to compete with human players. It effectively rendered offline campaigns useless, as it was impossible to maintain formation manually without burning out the engine, and I did not buy that game to watch the ai fly for me. It also meant than any offline combat was nothing more than arcade fantasy rather than a simulation of air combat of the period.

I had not really looked at the ai in COD yet as I am waiting for ffb before I commit any real time to the sim, but if the ai is boosted here too, that is just pathetic, and another reason to shelve it permanently. If Rowan could produce a decent simulation of the BOB with many more aircraft in the air, without resorting to this sort of horeshit, there really is no good reason 10 years on to do so, it removes any notion this is a sim that can be taken seriously.

Are you serious, Rowans BoB on release had those crazy bombers that all flew together and in exact sync, so that there was only one ai model driving a whole armada of bombers, worst immersion killer ever, personally I have been able to follow all manouvers made by the AI 109's Ive flown against, havent seen any rolls that I havent been able to stick with, but I can see that they are obviously cheating in some form, although a lot of that is perfect engine management, I play with cem on.

To be honest I play 99% online in all flightsims as I have yet to find an AI that doesnt do odd things, hopefully all these areas will be tweeked oncethey sort out the playability.

[zakkandrachoff]

i have a problem with the AI of the Bf109 since i take off, he dont get in formation, even with maximum Disipline

[Avimimus]

If I recall Blenheims were small and reported to have good handling characteristics and be relatively maneuverable (on two engines). Nine midair collisions would be a bit much though...

[Orpheus]

Can definitely say I've noticed some fairly outrageous flying from the AI as well, very fast spins and dives in large aircraft. Does break the immersion a fair bit. :-(

[reflected]

Yepp, AI 109s roll faster than an F16! Totally lame. What's even lamer is that CloD AI's main defensive maneuver is barrel rolls. SO ANNOYING, like in il2...

Also, sometimes the AI "Brakes" in mid air, one moment I'm chasing him at full throttle, and a second later I roar past him. Again, IMPOSSIBLE!

[leadgtr81]

Totally agreed! I'm not the most competent virtual combat pilot, but it's outrageous the manuevers the AI can perform... and without any apparent loss of energy!

I've encountered the AI slamming on the brakes more than once, which has caused me to either overshoot him like he's standing completely still, or stall in an attempt to bleed off speed quickly. Even 110's embarass me with the same tricks when I'm bearing down on em with a Hurri or Spit.

Just the same as those amazing "air brakes", they also have a rather outrageous boost capability and the AI pilots seem unaffected by lengthy high-G maneuvers.

Seems like everybody's been encountering this since the beta patch.. Also been experiencing visibly damaged (large holes, fluids, flames, etc..) AI aircraft flying as though there are no problems. :( Very insanely difficult to knock out of the sky after this patch.

[ICDP]

The AI were not that great pre-patch either, they just went from bad to worse. Pre patch I was getting outrun by Blenheims in my Bf110, or Defiants in my 109. I also had a Spitfire outrun, out turn and out fly me even though he had one wheel hangind down and a big hole in his wing.

The only thing that has changed for the AI is that they can do F16 like rolls now.

[skouras]

after the latest beta i angree
the ai doing some very quick manuevers that exist only in lock on or open falcon with newest aircraft:-P

[leadgtr81]

The AI were not that great pre-patch either, they just went from bad to worse. Pre patch I was getting outrun by Blenheims in my Bf110, or Defiants in my 109. I also had a Spitfire outrun, out turn and out fly me even though he had one wheel hangind down and a big hole in his wing.

The only thing that has changed for the AI is that they can do F16 like rolls now.

True.. occasionally had aircraft on fire, wheels dropped and/or massive holes still trying to fight (both pre and post-patch). Though engagements with other fighters were generally a bit more manageable pre-patch it seemed.. though yeah, I have been out-maneuvered by similarly damaged aircraft before and it is more than frustrating. Would like to see the AI aircraft subject to the same physical limitations that the human aircraft are.. otherwise the offline experience is ruined for me (and many others I'm sure). Doesn't look like I'll be able to experience a good dogfight anytime soon until I see more folks in the multiplayer servers.

Well, I've just done a couple of quick dogfights vs Cr42's and found them to have super-planes as well. They shouldn't be able to out-climb my Hurri or Spit despite that I had an obvious energy advantage. They also seemed to have superior dive speed which just seems funny. Those climbs though.. they demonstrated very little energy loss while outclimbing me.. just not right. Then again...maybe I'm not properly managing my engine? I do have CEM on.

On a bright note.. I did get to see one Cr42 get himself into what appeared to be an unrecoverable stall as he tried to shake me off. Watched him stall and plummet into the channel in a spiraling dive for a good 1000 or so feet. :)

[David198502]

before the patch i already recognized impossible airbrakes,spits and hurries with flaps in climbing siccors at extremely low speed.they didnt seem to loose energy even before the patch.hurries outrunning me in my bf.
now after the patch,regardless of what plane,the ai can do rolls like f16s.but well that was mentioned here more than enough.at least we have a game that begins to be playable.im sure they will fix this pretty soon.and i hope the devs will also change the fms to more accuracy.also spits and hurries fighting with flaps under stall speed and then gain speed ridiculously fast is just dissapointing.

[damar]

My spitfire full throttle can't catch up to a BF109 which laid down the undercarriage. It's impossible!

[SQB]

There is nothing wrong with barrel rolls but what I am seeing is ridiculously fast rolls that only a modern jet fighter could pull off. What's worse is that the plane does not suffer any reduction in speed or miraculously doesn't go into a crazy spin as a result.

I don't understand why the AI can't obey the laws of physics like the rest of us. I'd rather have less challenging AI than artificially boosted ones. I hope this is a PRIMARY concern for the devs to fix, because I expected it not to be brought over from IL2 1946. I actually think it's worse in this game ...

One thing, I would rather super AI than less challenging ones. If they are too easy there is nothing to learn, ala Rise Of Flight (where patches got rid of any need for skill in single player). The current AI are not too hard, I kill more of them than I get killed by them, many times over. :grin:
But I do agree, if they are not obeying physics... well, make them!!!

[drewpee]

I to am having trouble with AI behaving badly. I've mostly blamed my gunnery skills. So desperate am I that I started playing with unlimited ammo.
I have sat behind a spits dead six, wings flat and filled it will mg and 20mm fire. Ailerons shot off rudder and elevator gone and it still flies.
Also chasing down AI Hurricane with me in perfect trim. The AI rolling continually from 2000mt to the deck, then pull away still performing dizzying evasive maneuvers leaving me falling further behind still in prefect trim.

I hate that smug Ai Cunny Funt. :evil:

[reflected]

One thing, I would rather super AI than less challenging ones. If they are too easy there is nothing to learn, ala Rise Of Flight (where patches got rid of any need for skill in single player). The current AI are not too hard, I kill more of them than I get killed by them, many times over. :grin:
But I do agree, if they are not obeying physics... well, make them!!!

You're kidding, right?

Yes, the AI should be challenging (ace and veteran AI that is), but because of the tactics it uses and flying skills, not by cheating gravity and physics.