Gunnery - help!

[reflected]

Fellas,

Her's the deal: I can hardly shoot down anything with a Spitfire (I'm doing OK in a 109 though).

Those 8 Brownings don't seem to do any damage! I know, we can't set the convergence or modify the belting YET. still.. I can sit behind a Heinkel, spend my whole ammo and he's only damaged! - also my stats say that I had an accuracy of 20-30% which is unbelievably low :(

I run out of ammo in no time so deflection shooting (without tracers!) is out of question. Especially against agile and slippery 109s. So what should I do??

I've read many RAF combat reports that said: "a 2 second burst and the 109 was on fire" - but I can't do that.

Thanks!

[Rattlehead]

Fellas,

Her's the deal: I can hardly shoot down anything with a Spitfire (I'm doing OK in a 109 though).

Those 8 Brownings don't seem to do any damage! I know, we can't set the convergence or modify the belting YET. still.. I can sit behind a Heinkel, spend my whole ammo and he's only damaged! - also my stats say that I had an accuracy of 20-30% which is unbelievably low :(

I run out of ammo in no time so deflection shooting (without tracers!) is out of question. Especially against agile and slippery 109s. So what should I do??

I've read many RAF combat reports that said: "a 2 second burst and the 109 was on fire" - but I can't do that.

Thanks!

I must be honest, I don't have a problem shooting down planes in the Spit. The Heinkels I find are actually maybe a little too easy to kill.
I haven't flown against 109's too much yet, but I also have no problem killing Bf110's.
That said, I expended all my ammo on a stubborn Dornier last night and the bugger was still limping along, but barely. :)

I'm not sure what to suggest really, since I'm not doing anything special...just getting on their six and blazing away, athough I do go for the engines with armour piercing rounds.

[Erkki]

Fellas,

Her's the deal: I can hardly shoot down anything with a Spitfire (I'm doing OK in a 109 though).

Those 8 Brownings don't seem to do any damage! I know, we can't set the convergence or modify the belting YET. still.. I can sit behind a Heinkel, spend my whole ammo and he's only damaged! - also my stats say that I had an accuracy of 20-30% which is unbelievably low :(

I run out of ammo in no time so deflection shooting (without tracers!) is out of question. Especially against agile and slippery 109s. So what should I do??

I've read many RAF combat reports that said: "a 2 second burst and the 109 was on fire" - but I can't do that.

Thanks!

Gunnery "only" 20-30%? Have you played flight sims before? If you can score even 10% online you're likely to be called a cheater sooner or later. :grin:

Go for engines, my record now is 3 Ju 88s in one sortie.

[reflected]

It's the same accuracy I have in RoF.

But that's in dogfights, and this is whiel sitting on a tail of a big Heinkel. Where did the rest go?

I wish we could adjust the convergence and the ammo too :?

I mean, isn't it the first thing you realize it's broken? What did the beta testers do?


Also, what about fighters? I'm out of ammo before I do any serios damage, even though I fire 1 sec bursts. :(

[Sky]

Those 8 Brownings don't seem to do any damage! I know, we can't set the convergence or modify the belting YET. still.. I can sit behind a Heinkel, spend my whole ammo and he's only damaged! - also my stats say that I had an accuracy of 20-30% which is unbelievably low :(

Thanks!

If you go into OPTIONS/PLANE you can set gun layouts and convergence and save profiles.

[Erkki]

It's the same accuracy I have in RoF.

But that's in dogfights, and this is whiel sitting on a tail of a big Heinkel. Where did the rest go?

I wish we could adjust the convergence and the ammo too :?

I mean, isn't it the first thing you realize it's broken? What did the beta testers do?


Also, what about fighters? I'm out of ammo before I do any serios damage, even though I fire 1 sec bursts. :(

Relative speeds and shooting distances greater in WW2... Even with fuselage mounted guns 10% is very well against fighters, if you can keep it as the long time average.

You missed the 70%! :grin:

[reflected]

If you go into OPTIONS/PLANE you can set gun layouts and convergence and save profiles.

I know ,but it dosn't work. I guess it's bugged, I've heard many complains about that.

[drewpee]

Don't know if this will help but after switching to unlimited ammo (Haven't done that in years) I studded the tracers coming from the spits and they seem to be aiming to high. Also using less lead than you should helps. Ai control AC manage to keep out flying me even when statistics indicate 80% damage.

All that said its early days and things like damage modeling and gunnery probably need a bit of work.

[Sky]

I know ,but it dosn't work. I guess it's bugged, I've heard many complains about that.

Ah..apologies, I should have checked, I haven't got that far yet, to busy enjoying the scenery. On the gunnery, I have sat behind 109's etc and emptied most of my ammo into them with little damage too. But in an online game with my squad m8's we were happily watching each other burn but we were attacking from the top and side rather than behind, so I guess we got more engine hits.

[Bewolf]

Don't know if this will help but after switching to unlimited ammo (Haven't done that in years) I studded the tracers coming from the spits and they seem to be aiming to high. Also using less lead than you should helps. Ai control AC manage to keep out flying me even when statistics indicate 80% damage.

All that said its early days and things like damage modeling and gunnery probably need a bit of work.


Did you guys take gun convergence into account?

If not, these links here may provide helpful:

http://www.slowcat.de/slowcats1/AHTC/Convergence.pdf

http://www.combatsim.com/memb123/htm/2002/02/a2a2/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpnJeM3wjew&feature=related

Basically, bullets travel in arcs defined by air friction and gravity. The longer into the flight, the slower the bullet will become and the steeper it will fall of down towards earth.

This means that if you set your gun convergence to, let's say, a 100 meters (standard setting in CoD), the bullets will be at level with your cross hair at exactly that distance. After those 100 meters, the bullets will be below the crosshair. Before those 100 meters, the bullets will be above (travelling in an arc)

You need to take that into account when aiming.

[Georgio41]

The only target worth hitting behind a bomber is the engine pods and even these are armoured against rear attacks. Factor in the slant effect of your 'mouse' rounds (.303) ricoceting and it doesn't look good.

Learn to roll above the bomber then dive down into a slashing attack on the cockpit area, then roll under the bomber and hit them from below before zooming high and repeating.

Fire short effective bursts to conserve ammo; no one 'sprayed and prayed' in real life as it caused jams and malfunctions.

I used to chat about the war to my old barber in Leigh-on-Sea, he had his business all through the war and he vividly recounted watching the bomber streams flying up the Thames to London 'so many you couldn't count them' he would say.
He said that when a few RAF planes did get to the bomber streams they would be struggling to get height and would attack from the same level at slow speed.
End result was the RAF planes would get shot out of the sky.
I asked him how many RAF planes would he see and he said no more than a couple at a time and they'd have no effect on the bombers at all.

Bear in mind that these were the recollections of a very old man, he was at least 85 when I knew him, but he did seem compus mentus.

[Blackdog_kt]

Shooting directly from behind doesn't give good results and it's not a bug, it's supposed to be that way. There's a bunch of empty space there with the exception of the occasional armor plate to further ruin your day...it makes sense, the aircraft designers covered the rear positions with armor and guns because that's the easiest place to shoot from.

I have no problem shooting down 3 Dorniers and still have ammo left to damage a fourth, which may or may not crash later on.

The trick is not to shoot directly from their 6 o'clock position. Come in slightly from the side above/below. The way i get kills is not by making things explode. I either hit fuel tanks and engines while coming in sideways, or i kill the crews if i'm coming in from above.

Parking on their tail is certainly doable now that the AI gunners "feel" fear and have more variables in their experience, but that doesn't mean it's the optimal solution.

I get similar results with every other aircraft in the sim. I can chip away at a walrus or a gladiator with the G50 and it won't really matter, but coming in from the sides (slightly so, you don't have to be exactly perpendicular to their course, just come in from their 4-5 o'clock instead of dead six every time) i can kill the pilot more than half the times. Similar for attacking heavier aircraft like the Sunderland and Wellington with the 109 and 110.

Don't worry about maximizing time on target if your angle gets you no results, come in from a different angle even if that means a shorter amount of time spent shooting.

Even in short bursts, deflection shooting is your friend ;)

[[RS]Boomer]

I had a problem shooting planes down in the Spit until I changed my ammo load out and convergence. You can set all those now and it saves. To use them just edit the mission you want to play and set you ammo belt to the one you saved. You can do all this in the full mission builder(after you create a load out). Once you change your ammo to your liking you will be unstoppable. I have blown up a 88 with a half second burst.

[Iamsnip]

So. If my convergence is set at 338m as it is in the ammo loadout menu - does that mean that when the range on the enemy reads .33 thats convergence?

[[RS]Boomer]

So. If my convergence is set at 338m as it is in the ammo loadout menu - does that mean that when the range on the enemy reads .33 thats convergence?

Yes, but I suggest you set it closer. These .303's do more damage at less than 200 meters in my experience. A WW2 Pilot once said(I paraphrase),"Just when you think you're close enough to shoot, get closer!"

And don't forget to change up the ammo types ie, MkVII, armor piercing, incendiary(thats how my load out goes except the two outboard guns have a incendiary tracer every 10 rounds).

[Iamsnip]

Thanks for coming back so quickly

[reflected]

Boomer;260439']I had a problem shooting planes down in the Spit until I changed my ammo load out and convergence. You can set all those now and it saves. To use them just edit the mission you want to play and set you ammo belt to the one you saved. You can do all this in the full mission builder(after you create a load out). Once you change your ammo to your liking you will be unstoppable. I have blown up a 88 with a half second burst.

I can't be arsed with FMB. Doesn't it work in QMB yet? :(

[Dazzed DJ]

Boomer;260439']I had a problem shooting planes down in the Spit until I changed my ammo load out and convergence. You can set all those now and it saves. To use them just edit the mission you want to play and set you ammo belt to the one you saved. You can do all this in the full mission builder(after you create a load out). Once you change your ammo to your liking you will be unstoppable. I have blown up a 88 with a half second burst.

Also does this work in Multiplayer yet as well?

[reflected]

Hmm it doesn't work in FMB either. I spend another 10 minutes setting up my ammo, saved it, and it got totally lost, no sign of it anywhere.

Damn, I want a QMB where I can select these things, it's inconcievalbe why didn't they implement it in the first place...

[Geronimo989]

I got it working in FMB only, and it is true, its much easier to shoot down bombers now. I shot down 4 dorniers with combination of dewilde, AP and tracers, compared to one or two with default ammo loadout in a spit (full real apart from anthro)