COOP play/FMB

[JG53Frankyboy]

is it possible to fly "old school" IL2'46 COOPs in CoD ? Mean, standing on the runway, engines stopped.
my trys gave me no success. Every time i joined the mission (i tried it as host) the AI had already started the engines and were starting :( i spawned in an already rolling aircraft with running engine.

after i checked all my self build missions with no success i started the "CoD release" COOP...same result :(
i even opend this mission in the FMB, they did it the same way as i did...


you have also made the experience if enemy formations met between "normal flight" waypoints, they dodnt engage eachother ??

[mcler002]

Im not at home (just 'running' COD FMB in my head lol), but wasnt there something within the 'object browser' window (when an aircraft is selected) to have the aircraft just ideal, not under AI control???

[JG53Frankyboy]

one last, shameless bumb....
Is anyone able to build, fly, join IL2 "old school" like COOP missions in COD ??

thank you in advance.

[MadTommy]

one last, shameless bumb....
Is anyone able to build, fly, join IL2 "old school" like COOP missions in COD ??

thank you in advance.

Well i did not play previous versions on IL2 (past about 2 minutes) but i have had no problem having planes start on the ground with engines off.

I think the problem you are seeing is if you place a flight they are be default flown by AI.. which start up their engines as soon as you start the battle.

If this is not convenient use spawn points and each player playing the coop mission can spawn their own plane, engines off and parked if that is what you require.

[JG53Harti]

one last, shameless bumb....
Is anyone able to build, fly, join IL2 "old school" like COOP missions in COD ??

thank you in advance.

Would be nice to see Coops like in IL2 also in Cod.
Now its more like we have only dogfight missions in the game

[furbs]

Agree, but we need CO-OPs.

[Ze-Jamz]

Agree, but we need CO-OPs.

Yup..

Im just hoping Squad mates can make this game work soon...getting a bit lonely up there :)

I got me ol mate Jaws2002 to wing now and then though

[CaptainDoggles]

Agree, but we need CO-OPs.

Why? What is it about coops that people want but feel we don't have?

Anything you could do in il-2 coops you can do in CLOD multiplayer mode.


Moving ground vehicles? Check
AI flights? Check
Briefings? Check

[Blackdog_kt]

I think it's primarily about an interface remake, so that it's easier to click on friendly aircraft and spawn into them or multi-crew with others.

The rest of the needed capabilities are there just like you say and i particularly like how we can have DF and Coop style missions running on the same server simultaneously.

The other day i was fiddling around with the rudimentary map tools we got in the last patch, imagine my surprise when i discovered it's possible to create waypoints for your flight on the spot, assign waypoint properties and so on.

Negative points: The map tools info window needs some work (it's not possible to stretch it and some tools are hidden from view) and the fonts used for the tools need to be a bit more visible against the background clutter for the map.

Positive points: It's entirely possible to measure distances and headings on your map and set waypoints. In other words, you can spawn an entire group of aircraft instead of just one (if the server scripts permit it), have other people take control of them, draw up a mission while you are warming up your engines and go fly. It's like having a mini-FMB integrated into the actual gameplay session.

[JG53Frankyboy]

Why? What is it about coops that people want but feel we don't have?

Anything you could do in il-2 coops you can do in CLOD multiplayer mode.


Moving ground vehicles? Check
AI flights? Check
Briefings? Check


because its something different to have two teams starting at the same time going for a missiongoal.
but sure, its totaly personal preference !!
no kind of IL2 dogfightserver gave me the fun of all the COOP online missions i flew with lot of comrades on voice coms - from the first free COOPs in 2001/02 over IOW/VEF and following online wars to the last VOW"R2" ..........

[Chivas]

I found the Warclouds 24/7 servers very satisfying. There was a number of objectives for both sides that made ground pounders, support flyers, and dogfighters quite happy. You had 24/7 wars, without the endless waiting of the Co-op servers. COD's multiplayer options should make coops unnecessary unless the players want to start the war at the same moment.

[furbs]

Im saying we should have the option of both, just like IL2.

[CaptainDoggles]

Im saying we should have the option of both, just like IL2.

With the exception of everybody starting at the same time, we DO have both. Everything you can do in a coop can be done in CLOD multiplayer. Frankly I feel that everyone starting at the same time is highly unrealistic anyways.

[CaptainDoggles]

Okay, fair, but the functionality is there.

Anybody could host a server where everyone joins the same side and has the same objectives, with moving ground vehicles/ships and AI aircraft.

[Chivas]

Well, not quite everything can be done, Furbs can't jump into any of the current MP servers and have everyone flying the same side with the same objectives.

I don't have a problem with having coops, but I believe the server can be set up to whatever the group wants, like only being able to join one side, and flying against the AI and their ground forces. Why you'd want to do that I'm not sure as human opponents are more fun than AI opponents, unless the server isn't attracting enough people for both sides. Its also interesting when your not sure if the aircraft your targeting is human or AI.

[furbs]

Did any of you guys ever fly the VEF online wars?

[furbs]

If i have to explain why we need CO-OPs then you havnt been in a online sqd or taken part in online wars.

Chivas, come on mate, you know full well why we need CO-OPs.

[robtek]

CO-OPs are only restrictions in CoD's mp-environment.
It is possible if one put on a server with ki-targets and no side-switching and plane-changing allowed.
Why this could be desirable, beside delivering easy ki-targets to kill, is beyond me.
CoD gives the freedom to have all together, the online war, human and ki opponents and even ki comrades to fill missing slots.
It is just that someone with the knowledge has to program the mission, i dont think that there is a already established server that wouldn't run it.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think that once someone comes up with an all-in-one c# module that includes statistics tracking of various parameters (kills/losses of aircraft, convoys, vehicles, etc) and uses them to influence other parameters (like moving front markers, aircraft/fuel/ammo loadout availability), there will be no more need for coops at all.

There are already various people working on parts of this and since it's a community effort with shared code, i don't think it will be long before we see this.

As for the participants, it's been possible since release to spawn a full flight of AI aircraft and have other players spawn into them (the reason you don't see it is that most servers run scripts that "clean up" AI aircraft), since the last patch it's also possible to give your flight waypoints while inside the game.

In other words, in a few months we'll have customized dynamic campaign engines running 24/7 on every server. Then, each group of players will be deciding how to better influence the outcome for their team, spawn a group of aircraft for themselves, draw up a flight plan while their engines are warming up and fly the mission.

Instead of the tedious process of fly coop, collect stats, generate next mission, host and fly next mission, repeat, it will all be done without ever leaving the server, in a persistent sandbox-type environment where the player's choice matters and where it's possible to surprise your opponents instead of having to start sorties at the exact same time. It will bring the together the teamwork of Coops with the fluidity of DF mode and the realism of mission objectives found in well done offline campaigns, so i really doubt we'll need any of the old MP modes when the new one reaches the point where it can combine and supersede all of them at the same time.

After all, Coop mode was the direct consequence of a limitation in the early IL2 versions (it was impossible to have moving AI in a sandbox-type DF server), now that the limitation is lifted there's no need to keep sticking to old habits for old habits sake alone. I'm not one who usually supports doing away with old habits just for the sake of it either, but in this case i really believe the advantages are decisive.

[LoBiSoMeM]

I think that once someone comes up with an all-in-one c# module that includes statistics tracking of various parameters (kills/losses of aircraft, convoys, vehicles, etc) and uses them to influence other parameters (like moving front markers, aircraft/fuel/ammo loadout availability), there will be no more need for coops at all.

There are already various people working on parts of this and since it's a community effort with shared code, i don't think it will be long before we see this.

As for the participants, it's been possible since release to spawn a full flight of AI aircraft and have other players spawn into them (the reason you don't see it is that most servers run scripts that "clean up" AI aircraft), since the last patch it's also possible to give your flight waypoints while inside the game.

In other words, in a few months we'll have customized dynamic campaign engines running 24/7 on every server. Then, each group of players will be deciding how to better influence the outcome for their team, spawn a group of aircraft for themselves, draw up a flight plan while their engines are warming up and fly the mission.

Instead of the tedious process of fly coop, collect stats, generate next mission, host and fly next mission, repeat, it will all be done without ever leaving the server, in a persistent sandbox-type environment where the player's choice matters and where it's possible to surprise your opponents instead of having to start sorties at the exact same time. It will bring the together the teamwork of Coops with the fluidity of DF mode and the realism of mission objectives found in well done offline campaigns, so i really doubt we'll need any of the old MP modes when the new one reaches the point where it can combine and supersede all of them at the same time.

After all, Coop mode was the direct consequence of a limitation in the early IL2 versions (it was impossible to have moving AI in a sandbox-type DF server), now that the limitation is lifted there's no need to keep sticking to old habits for old habits sake alone. I'm not one who usually supports doing away with old habits just for the sake of it either, but in this case i really believe the advantages are decisive.

Will be great. :)

[VO101_Tom]

The coop mission according to me it's important. Listed only, in what better a coop mission (or coop mission based online war), than a dogfight server (dogfight or gogfight-war, it it doesn't matter). Most of these not the actual mistakes of the game, but the limits of the computer game.

Organization: If there are not a hierarchy, everybody is going everywhere. If there is only one target, and only one area, which it is necessary to defend, then everybody (mostly) works together. There are centres on the DF server where a lot of fight, but it not same thing.

Balance: you start simultaneously, with equal numbers. There is not wulch at the take-off, no endless refly, ect.

Less moron. Much less taran, wulch and other mindless, suicide action (my "favor": before exit, yet fall down onto somebody. :evil:)
I do not know, what is the reason, the statistics, or the rarer departure, but there really not funny these things.

Strategic decisions. This would be solvable on a server, with a online map running in a real time, but it provides an opportunity for cheating on a some kind of level.

Statistics. In an on-line war i like it, that you may build up your carreer until long time, not only the next server restart. This formality like that, what make the game more interesting.

Divided servers. Practically, the web page of the online war runs on an any kind of PC, the current servers hosting the game. The cod is heading towards the centralized networks currently, but it shows, this has how many deficiencies (there are not a redundancy, if that server crashes, it crashes everything)

Finally, but not in a last: Community. You know them, beside who (or against who) you are flying from week to week. Not "only 20 red" on the current server.

The slower gameplay, fewer actions are his disadvantage. This is true.

[VO101_Tom]

I think that once someone comes up with an all-in-one c# module that includes statistics tracking of various parameters (kills/losses of aircraft, convoys, vehicles, etc) and uses them to influence other parameters (like moving front markers, aircraft/fuel/ammo loadout availability), there will be no more need for coops at all.

Sounds interesting. :cool:

[furbs]

I think that once someone comes up with an all-in-one c# module that includes statistics tracking of various parameters (kills/losses of aircraft, convoys, vehicles, etc) and uses them to influence other parameters (like moving front markers, aircraft/fuel/ammo loadout availability), there will be no more need for coops at all.

There are already various people working on parts of this and since it's a community effort with shared code, i don't think it will be long before we see this.

As for the participants, it's been possible since release to spawn a full flight of AI aircraft and have other players spawn into them (the reason you don't see it is that most servers run scripts that "clean up" AI aircraft), since the last patch it's also possible to give your flight waypoints while inside the game.

In other words, in a few months we'll have customized dynamic campaign engines running 24/7 on every server. Then, each group of players will be deciding how to better influence the outcome for their team, spawn a group of aircraft for themselves, draw up a flight plan while their engines are warming up and fly the mission.

Instead of the tedious process of fly coop, collect stats, generate next mission, host and fly next mission, repeat, it will all be done without ever leaving the server, in a persistent sandbox-type environment where the player's choice matters and where it's possible to surprise your opponents instead of having to start sorties at the exact same time. It will bring the together the teamwork of Coops with the fluidity of DF mode and the realism of mission objectives found in well done offline campaigns, so i really doubt we'll need any of the old MP modes when the new one reaches the point where it can combine and supersede all of them at the same time.

After all, Coop mode was the direct consequence of a limitation in the early IL2 versions (it was impossible to have moving AI in a sandbox-type DF server), now that the limitation is lifted there's no need to keep sticking to old habits for old habits sake alone. I'm not one who usually supports doing away with old habits just for the sake of it either, but in this case i really believe the advantages are decisive.

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....i ran a sqd for about a year,

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

[JG52Krupi]

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

+1 we NEED COOP its perfect for training...

[CaptainDoggles]

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

You can make airstarts in the so-called "DF maps". You can play with the AI. You can play against the AI.

You can simply load a new mission. People act like there's no FMB in this game. There is. You can script bombers to attack a base, you can script all sorts of things.

You had 50 different training missions? Ok so what's stopping you from making 50 different training missions and simply loading the one you want?

Oh, that's right, people are threatened by change.

[furbs]

You can make airstarts in the so-called "DF maps". You can play with the AI. You can play against the AI.

You can simply load a new mission. People act like there's no FMB in this game. There is. You can script bombers to attack a base, you can script all sorts of things.

You had 50 different training missions? Ok so what's stopping you from making 50 different training missions and simply loading the one you want?

Oh, that's right, people are threatened by change.

Ok, how do all 10 guys flying 5 vs 5 start together, head to head, a mile apart at 20,000 ft? with a DF map?

[furbs]

And what wrong with having both? ive never said lets get rid of DFs, we need both.

[furbs]

Or, to make things as simple and easy as IL2, have CO-OPs ? :)

try getting 10 guys to "jump in" at the right time....good luck with that, been there, done it.....doesnt work.

[furbs]

So we add the screen for readying up,...and what have we got? :)

sorry yellownet, just read your post. :(

[VO101_Tom]

I reply in this topic, the other one (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=317112#post317112) really off.

...

You cannot sit into a aircraft, only if the map icons are switched on (or you have to click blindly). But this would not be trouble if it would be possible to make a choice, that shows at the time of starting only, and own side icons only. It would be good, if the names, or at least the plane numbers shows on the map. Plus, if there would be a system, which supervises the start, (and meanwhile provides an opportunity for looking of the mission), this new system would know everything then, that the old one il-2.

To a previous topic. The private server solved some problem, and causes others. I do not want to filter the peoples, and I do not want to bring it back the old coop system of Il-2. Because CloD concept is better. But there are a couple of ideas, what others related here, with what it would be possible to make the game better.

[Blackdog_kt]

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....i ran a sqd for about a year,

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?


There is no DF map anymore. There is no Coop either. You can do both at the same time, or only one at a time, your choice entirely, but whatever you described is doable:

1) Have your set of missions ready.
2) Host your mission through the Lobby function and maybe use a password so that only your guys can join.
3) Fly.
4) Exit the mission, host another one, rinse and repeat as needed.

but, you also have the added benefit that if your guys didn't get those ships in the first run they can respawn in a new aircraft and have another go without having to exit,re-host, re-start the mission or have the host typing admin commands to do it in the console.

Sorry, i don't see how the old system is better when the new system can do both MP modes at the same time.

[retrojet]

How do I start the spinny thing again???
:mrgreen:



See you up there!

[furbs]

There is no DF map anymore. There is no Coop either. You can do both at the same time, or only one at a time, your choice entirely, but whatever you described is doable:

1) Have your set of missions ready.
2) Host your mission through the Lobby function and maybe use a password so that only your guys can join.
3) Fly.
4) Exit the mission, host another one, rinse and repeat as needed.

but, you also have the added benefit that if your guys didn't get those ships in the first run they can respawn in a new aircraft and have another go without having to exit,re-host, re-start the mission or have the host typing admin commands to do it in the console.

Sorry, i don't see how the old system is better when the new system can do both MP modes at the same time.

So we can all spawn at the same time, in the air, anywhere on the map, AI and players?

If that is true, then that's great!...its a CO-OP, if we cant do that its not a CO-OP, and it wont work for training.

Its simple, we need to be able to run "single missions" in MP for that we just need a "pick plane" screen with a "Fly now" button.

[Blackdog_kt]

Yup, it's just like that. The problems are a matter of interfacing (we need a refly button for DF-style, a start timer for coop-style gameplay and a list of existing aircraft that's possible to spawn into, that's all), but the underlying structure supports everything. It's just up to the mission designer and host to decide on how to use it.

For example, you could stick to "vanilla IL2" style coops by disallowing the players to spawn new aircraft via the relevant difficulty option, throw down some AI controlled aircraft over a waypoint with a loiter function and have your guys spawn into them upon mission start instead of creating new ones. As soon as they take control of their aircraft from the AI, each one exits the "loiter circle" and you head out for your objectives ;-)

[JG53Frankyboy]

and a "pre warmed engine" difficutly setting - having the warm up times of the radials in mind................

[JG53Frankyboy]

............(we need a refly button for DF-style, a start timer for coop-style gameplay and a list of existing aircraft that's possible to spawn into, that's all), ...............

easy said............ :D

[furbs]

There is no DF map anymore. There is no Coop either. You can do both at the same time, or only one at a time, your choice entirely, but whatever you described is doable:

1) Have your set of missions ready.
2) Host your mission through the Lobby function and maybe use a password so that only your guys can join.
3) Fly.
4) Exit the mission, host another one, rinse and repeat as needed.

but, you also have the added benefit that if your guys didn't get those ships in the first run they can respawn in a new aircraft and have another go without having to exit,re-host, re-start the mission or have the host typing admin commands to do it in the console.

Sorry, i don't see how the old system is better when the new system can do both MP modes at the same time.

Again Blackdog, can you all start at the same time? in formation with the right loadout, close to the target, with the AI ready?

[furbs]

Blackdog, im not saying the DF maps a with all the new stuff isnt great, im sure it is.
But we need CO-OPs like IL2 for training, simple, easy to make, load and run.

In IL2 it worked perfect, was very easy to set up, alter and run, it had briefings, end mission briefings....simple and easy.

Single missions with quick clear objectives for a set number of planes.

why cant we have both?


Luthier has said they are there for the smaller maps, why not the large map?


I have no idea why your arguing with me on this.

By the way, have you done any training with 10 or more guys?

[Blackdog_kt]

I'm not arguing with you, i'm just telling you what certain features do. Whether you decide to experiment with them and use them to your advantage so that you can go fly in the meantime, or not do so and wait for a straight port of IL2's coop interface is up to you ;-)

[Ataros]

Every single training session of 3GIAP back in VOW and VEF1,2 times was done in Dogfight with airstart. We just spawned and circled 10-20 seconds around spawn point waiting for everyone and for a Go command. Not really a lot of work to do ))

It is possible to do the same now and even add AI to the map if someone needs it. I think AI is good for personal gunnery training only, not for squad training imho.

Devs told they work on the coop menu but it may take more time than everyone hopes.

I would prefer to have a coop menu inside a dogfight server, i.e. a player joins a server, then selects an airfield (optionally) and only then presses a button for a coop-style menu where a player selects how many aircrafts to spawn into coop, targets, etc. In this case we can have "coop-airfields" at every dogfight server and players would be able to generate coops themselves in real time.

[41Sqn_Banks]

Ataros

can you ask the Devs to give a small example on how to create a ClientAddIn? This would allow us to create a COOP menu ourself and we wouldn't have to wait for the Devs. I've created a ServerAddIn but have no clue how to create the ClientAddIn and how to pass it to the clients.

If the devs can't provide this information I'd sugguest the ServerAddIn could read the chat log and interact with the users by chat, e.g.

Player: !airGroups
Server: JG27, 41Squadron, ...
Player: !selectGroup 41Squadron
Player !aircrafts
Server: A(SpitfireI), B(SpitfireI), ...
Player: !selectAircraft A
Player: !ready
...
Host: !fly

In which folder can I find the log.txt?

[furbs]

I'm not arguing with you, i'm just telling you what certain features do. Whether you decide to experiment with them and use them to your advantage so that you can go fly in the meantime, or not do so and wait for a straight port of IL2's coop interface is up to you ;-)

Thats fine Blackdog, we can see what the DF can do, im sure it can do some niffty things.

But we still need CO-OPs and that my point.

Did you ever see the amount of great single mission CO-OPs at mission 4 today? or see hyperlobby working with people playing CO-OPs all the time, plus all the online wars done in CO-OP mode.

the CO-OP allows you to play set piece actions for small numbers with very little fuss. Thats what i would like.

It cant of missed the devs attention im sure.

[furbs]

Every single training session of 3GIAP back in VOW and VEF1,2 times was done in Dogfight with airstart. We just spawned and circled 10-20 seconds around spawn point waiting for everyone and for a Go command. Not really a lot of work to do ))

It is possible to do the same now and even add AI to the map if someone needs it. I think AI is good for personal gunnery training only, not for squad training imho.

Devs told they work on the coop menu but it may take more time than everyone hopes.

I would prefer to have a coop menu inside a dogfight server, i.e. a player joins a server, then selects an airfield (optionally) and only then presses a button for a coop-style menu where a player selects how many aircrafts to spawn into coop, targets, etc. In this case we can have "coop-airfields" at every dogfight server and players would be able to generate coops themselves in real time.

Thats cool, but im sure you have used CO-OPs too for training right?

[Ataros]

Ataros

can you ask the Devs to give a small example on how to create a ClientAddIn? This would allow us to create a COOP menu ourself and we wouldn't have to wait for the Devs. I've created a ServerAddIn but have no clue how to create the ClientAddIn and how to pass it to the clients.

If the devs can't provide this information I'd sugguest the ServerAddIn could read the chat log and interact with the users by chat, e.g.

Player: !airGroups
Server: JG27, 41Squadron, ...
Player: !selectGroup 41Squadron
Player !aircrafts
Server: A(SpitfireI), B(SpitfireI), ...
Player: !selectAircraft A
Player: !ready
...
Host: !fly

In which folder can I find the log.txt?

Someone asked this before but devs did not give an answer. Probably they want to include it in next patch. You can write to Geniok http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=69933&daysprune=45
and ask him to send you small example of add-in code. He speaks English I think. If he does not, ask Small_Bee http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68765&daysprune=45 IIRC Small_Bee sent his example of client add-in code to Geniok initially.

@ Furbs
No. We considered it a waste of time to wait for squadmates to join a coop session in coop menu. We preferred to wait for everyone in a dogfight session because you can practice some duels or gunnery on dogfight server while waiting for others to get online. And shooting AI is also waste of time in a squad training imho as well as flying to target in coop mode. The idea was to practice teamwork in as many dogfights as possible in a given time. 5-7 minutes per 5vs.5 dogfight was enough.

Everyone has their own preferences and training procedures of cause. Let's hope we have the interface coming in the next patch.

[Thee_oddball]

Furbs, have you tried creating groups, and having your members just jump into them? Messing around with this, I found an extra benefit that Co-op didn't have, when someone crashes, or whatever thing fails, they can simply jump into another plane without everyone having to be kicked out, load another mission, wait for people to get settled back in, take their coffee breaks, etc...

Makes it easier if Map Icons are on, but then again, its training isn't it? small price to pay, when you train navigation, force them to spawn and find each other.

Groups can be created with up to 40 aircraft I believe, so training sessions could go longer with less hiccups than before. More focus on the actual task, vs the setup.
you could fill each airfield with 30 planes and as long as you set them to spawn PARKED and IDLE they will not move and you can just keeping jumping in a new one till you run out...not bad for group practice .

S!

@furbs

sorry m8 there is no "classic" CO-OP :( you can however get online create a lobby called "CO-OP HERE" or what ever you fancy, people will join you explain the COOP tell them what base you will take off from and what positions you wish them to take, tell them the name of your server and remind them that when they join they will see nothing till you START the mission.

if you have AI on your side and you are doing a ground start make sure they spawn PARKED and let them take off firt or they will run into you.

i know its a PITA but i guess it is better than nothing :)

S!

[Blackdog_kt]

Thats fine Blackdog, we can see what the DF can do, im sure it can do some niffty things.

But we still need CO-OPs and that my point.

Did you ever see the amount of great single mission CO-OPs at mission 4 today? or see hyperlobby working with people playing CO-OPs all the time, plus all the online wars done in CO-OP mode.

the CO-OP allows you to play set piece actions for small numbers with very little fuss. Thats what i would like.

It cant of missed the devs attention im sure.

It's not what DF can do because there's no DF either, it's Coop and DF rolled into one ;-)

I'm not against extra options (i actually believe the opposite). I just don't see the superiority of the old mode and it's not for lack of use: i used it a lot with IL-2:1946 to bring a buddy back into flight sims after a 10 year absence.

That guy had only rudimentary flight controls when he started, he used to be a falcon4 flier and had absolutely no idea about how to fly prop-planes with all their fancy control issues like torque and the like.
When all was said and done, the amount of times i had wished for capabilities similar to the new mode we now have was astronomical: once he would crash on take-off, then he would ram the ground targets, then he would crash into me, then if he didn't do any of that he would ram one of the Ju52s i had set up for air to air gunnery practice, and the list goes on and on.

If i could have had 20 Spitfires under AI control for us to jump into as they are orbiting 5 minutes from the target, plus a script to give us wave after wave of Ju52s i would have saved an immense amount of time. I really shudder at the thought of having to train 10 people at once and be at their mercy to get their stuff in order with some competency each and every time, or be forced to have a mission restart in the expected case that they wouldn't :-P

There's only two things we need to have the full functionality of IL2 style coops in the sim:
a) a timer option to start the mission
b) a way to take control of aircraft without having to turn on icons or externals (simply having a list of existing aircraft ala Il2 and friendly icons only on the preflight map would do it).

Until then we can use a pool of loitering AI aircraft, enable icons on the map and have people click on their ride and then click fly, or have externals on so they can cycle the external camera to their aircraft and press alt-F1 to jump into it.

In other words, all that's missing to have the full capabilities of coop mode back is a couple of interfacing options, not the underlying structure.