To Luthier/team Maddox

[Strike]

Just wanted to say that considering the circumstances around the release and what state the sim was released in, even though the sim isn't doing a perfect job at the moment, you and your team Luthier, are! The way you are behaving against us fans and communicating with us to hear our cries and meet our demands has been most impressive.

I am amazed that after all this harsh critizism you guys keep motivating yourselves to keep working 12 hour shifts. Without weekends..

Right now all I can say is thank you very very much not for bringing us the sim we are playing right now today, but the evolving product you are bringing us each and every day you keep putting your work into this masterpiece to be. I am one of those that believe this sim is the "ugly duckling" (not in a visual aspect! The game is beautiful) and will only get better with time!

And speaking of time... Thank your family/friends too for their understanding, support and patience during the long hour shifts 7 days a week you are doing. I like your sense of humor Luthier when adressing the community and that's the kind of spirit that makes you the perfect developer for such a game. With all hobby-historicans here and there saying this and that shouldn't be and those and these should, it's hard to keep your customers happy! I am happy just for the reason that you don't abandon your simulation like it is.

I will continue to support the team by supporting your games, after all, IL-2 Sturmovik : Cliffs of Dover is what's paying for your apartement rents and groceries, not to mention vodka for those late nights reading tree's comments. (no harm intended tree ;) )

I don't think we could ask for a better team to deal with the challenges of building the greatest sim ever to be seen on the PC platform. Together we - the fans, and you - the devs are in the same boat of testing, developing and perfecting this sim!

So good luck all as we set sails, or prop-pitch and ATA/boost, into the future :)

[Fragal]

+1 nothing more to say

[meplay]

Yeah Thank you guys :)

[Winger]

+1 on this one. I hope the initial sales were good. For being dumb and impatient i bought more than one copy:P but i am certain that my investment was a good one and will be even better in a few days.
Keep up the good work.

Winger

[Ailantd]

Agree.

[JG52Krupi]

+1 Well said.

[rfxcasey]

Well, the game should have come with a free bottle of vodka to ease the initial trauma!

Just kidding, I'm starting to warm up to the sim myself and have every confidence that the devs will work out all the kinks in the end. I thank the team for their efforts in a very niche market. :D

[Opitz]

Well, guys...

I don't want to destroy your community group hug here, but the feeling of guilt and professional reputation in a stake is quite a motivator.... You can be sure about it!

Patches are not done just because developers love you so much. First, it's a business, right, and huge economic loss is emerging here, because the sales are not such like planned...

I am not telling they don't care about the current state of the game, but I just can't believe they didn't know it before release... There is nothing to thank for, I want to see the results first, then I will thank too...

[bongodriver]

I don't want to destroy your community group hug here

really?..........doing a damned good job of it.

[BuRNeR]

I do 100% agree.
I do also much more see then all of these bugs and problems.
Its still work in progress but many of us want to help if we found a bug and told it to you.

ED was selling the beta of their dcs:a10, maybe it should be a solution for the next new development. I know enough ppl which would pay for the beta to play and test the game early. And then they were be able to load the fullversion later.

But now I am very exiting for all patches which will come next for BoB :).

[Strike]

I do 100% agree.
I do also much more see then all of these bugs and problems.
Its still work in progress but many of us want to help if we found a bug and told it to you.

ED was selling the beta of their dcs:a10, maybe it should be a solution for the next new development. I know enough ppl which would pay for the beta to play and test the game early. And then they were be able to load the fullversion later.

But now I am very exiting for all patches which will come next for BoB :).

Actually, if the team had put "beta" in the title for this rushed release, perhaps nobody would bash the product at all. But for marketing, I guess beta is harder to sell :p Still, removing the beta suffix is going to heighten expectations

[T}{OR]

+1 Nicely put.

ED was selling the beta of their dcs:a10, maybe it should be a solution for the next new development. I know enough ppl which would pay for the beta to play and test the game early. And then they were be able to load the fullversion later.

Agreed. The development team would have avoided most of the flak they received upon the release.

Well, the game should have come with a free bottle of vodka to ease the initial trauma!

That isn't a bad idea at all!

[jf1981]

When time comes, I'll suggest some ideas about the online games.

Regards

[carguy_]

I agree with every word. Take your time guys. There are people who have seen what you did with IL2 back in 2002 and they believe you can do everything you want with this game too.

I have ofcourse bought the game (yesterday) and waiting patiently. Not one bit bitter about the current state the game is in. I`m also impressed with the content of the CE pack.

After all I`m very optimistic about seeing the Gustav fly in CloD one day. And I`m perfectly aware that money is something everybody needs. Good luck!

IMO we should make such positive threads once a while. Just to show that not everybody here wants CloD to suffer.

[335th_GRAthos]

Nicely said Strike

+1

[Osmo]

+1

I hope you guys at 1C don't stress out too much about the bugs etc. IL-2 CoD is a masterpiece despite a few problems.

Working 7 days a week can lead to burnout, which just isn't worth it. Take a day off a week to relax, I don't mind waiting an extra day or two for the patch to arrive.

[Armatian]

+1!

[SoldaatvanOranje]

Totally agree!

[badaboom]

Great Post Strike! And I certainly Concur!

[dali]

reading your "thank you notes" I understand why this forum is also known as "banana forum".
:)
There are just too many design flaws built into this sim, that it is good that it is out and running. It certanly has a lot of potential, but I'm afraid that features which should have been part of initial release are not there, and that there are too many things, which are of minor importance for the flight sim. There is a cold fact, that combat sim has to fulfill certain criteria in order to be enjoyable and to have long life: credible physics (flight model, weather model, ballistics), credible environment for flight sim (which doesn not include extra detailed grass, vehicles and other distraction factors, which eat up team and processor resources), fluidity (code optimisation), sound, AI and small, just enough detalied and interesting map. Not half of UK and third of France. COD looks like too many things were put in, and then when it became clear, that one would need super computer to run it, they were taken out one by one. I see fragmentation in features and no clear goal.


and don't get me wrong, I like Oleg ;)

among other things I also run pro simulator as part of my job, so I have also other simulation experience not only from PC sim games...

[Strike]

reading your "thank you notes" I understand why this forum is also known as "banana forum".

... explain...

Anyways, cliffs is like a block of iron. It's big, heavy, sluggish, imperfect, has no features or whatever you may throw as critizism at it, BUT, the devs are hammer and anvil, the blacksmith.. us? Okay I'm getting way too literal/picturelike so clue is that patience is the word here. I've been around since 2001. I've seen the damage model decals and effects we have ingame today in 2006 in WIP updates. I've been waiting for the October 2006 release or whatever it was said to be. I've seen the WiP DVD that came with IL-2 1946 from the retailer. I've been there all the way and I must say, NEVER have I felt "forgotten". Therefore I have faith in the repair/building of the new installment. Flown it every day since I got it, without problems really. Stutters a little at 1920x1080 so I sacrificed resolution and it's fully playable at 1600x900 :) The way I see it, it's only going to be a downhill ride from here.

People will go from being "Man, this stuff is broken, I hate it"

to...

"Man, I can't wait for the next patch, that 190 looks so sweet!!"

and then probably to

"Jeez, this 190 is porked, spitUFO is dominating me in this. Fix!"

to

"Blimey! The 190 is doing summersaults and cartwheels around my spit whilst shooting it's 4x 20mm and 2x 13mm at me from 6 different angles"

Even then, they'll tweak it and probably, as earlier mentioned, allow mods (are already seeing this module feature ingame :) ) Probably people will be able to fly user-made Flightmodels by contributing communities on "Mod-enabled servers" whilst those that like vanilla will fly on vanilla servers :).

[dali]

well, the fact is, that some things in COD are only "wrong" (as you can find tons of users who think they are right about every detail). I'm an active ex mil pilot and I see what is realy wrong in COD and it seems that Ilya is reluctant to change some things, which is at the end of the day the decision of the developers. I do not rant, I would like to point out some things.

I firmly belive, that the whole concept of the COD is far from balanced. One cant put everything into code and then just block it for some unforseen future...

There are some stellar moments in COD, but they just stand out from the rest...the things which are "wrong" from simulation game standpoint, are prevailing at the moment, and I'm a bit pessimistic about sorting out the roadmap...

about the banana....on simhq and other forums this forum has got such nick. I don't know why, but I would gess it is from the uncritical sucking up that is not so rare on this forum. You have probably noticed, that I don't have many posts - I don't speak unless I think I have sometihng constructive to add...

[Hakoona]

I can see that the sim has very much potential. The damage model and the complex engine management will really add to the challenge. 1946 aces will have to add up a notch if they want to control these planes in CoD at full realism. Seems we will be flying legandary air battles for years to come!
Oleg and Luthier, although I read the critics that were not very laudative at the moment I still bought the game as a gesture of supporting your development team. I thought it would be the least I could do to support a talented team which was probably under heavy pressure of its publisher.
I know you will not let us down!
If for good stuff you need to wait, that waiting is what I will do.

Best regards,

[Strike]

about the banana....on simhq and other forums this forum has got such nick. I don't know why, but I would gess it is from the uncritical sucking up that is not so rare on this forum. You have probably noticed, that I don't have many posts - I don't speak unless I think I have sometihng constructive to add...

And here I thought it was because of the ugly yellow layout on the forums :P Well being pessimistic has taught me through the airforce training that it's only going to get you halted at the problems, instead of having you focus on the solution to the problem. Not saying that's what you're doing, but it's just a better overall attitude in my opinion. I've gotten a lot further with a positive spirit than when I could beg it all just would stop getting worse :p

Then again, that's me..

I posted this because I know a little about sacrifice, and be it they're saving their own butts or reputation, or trying to meet our wishes, they're still spending time away from their homes, friends and family and you don't need an expert to verify that this can pay a huge toll on your life. Whatever extra time they're using on CoD, they're sacrificing elsewhere. I'd rather sacrifice some of my time to applaud them for keeping up and actually NOT taking a break after this release. Judging by the developers' attitude and awareness of the situation I don't think they'll be popping that bottle of champagne just yet.

There are enough people at this forum that fire full critizism broadsides at the developers and basically bog down the forums in complains. Either rants or constructive forms of critizism. I thought I'd bring something decent in here that's NOT a fault report or bughunt.

[Armatian]

I'm at the most avid simmer of the spectrum, since 1990 year i drooled for nothing but the best promises of simulation, and one reality dominates, the market.
One of the best car simulation avaiable to pc (some flaws apart) is live for speed, because it focused on the most important from the start, tyre physics. Is still today directx 8.1, physics development has struck a wall, the development "staff" is basically 3 guys.

Considering the history of simulations, i'm nothing but thankful for the effort these developers had made.

Complaining, in an educated manner, is ok, you'r showing that you care, but spending money to get angry for the bugs is plain bad bussiness, for the buyer i mean.

Simulation is something so damn complicated that you can argue for days without getting nowhere, as is an art, the art of doing it the best you can, and making it perceivable.

People should make their choices without much noise, ask gently to improve things that take your experience/perception down, and be patient.

[Theshark888]

No, I couldn't disagree more and I can't believe the soft tone from so many of you! This is not some hobbyist/enthusiast creating a game in freetime...these are employees paid to create a simulation to be sold for profit.

Without Oleg in the background I am afraid that we will land up with a half-baked game that Pacific Fighters turned out to be. Sorry Luthier, you may be great at some aspects of software development but project management is not your strong point.

If 1C has been doing 12 hour days since the summer, something terribly wrong has happened to this project. If the team had put in half days for seven years the sim would have been completed.

Please keep up with the 12 hour days before the N American release so COD does not completely crash and burn.:evil:

[Robert]

well, the fact is, that some things in COD are only "wrong" (as you can find tons of users who think they are right about every detail). I'm an active ex mil pilot and I see what is realy wrong in COD and it seems that Ilya is reluctant to change some things, which is at the end of the day the decision of the developers. I do not rant, I would like to point out some things.

I firmly belive, that the whole concept of the COD is far from balanced. One cant put everything into code and then just block it for some unforseen future...

There are some stellar moments in COD, but they just stand out from the rest...the things which are "wrong" from simulation game standpoint, are prevailing at the moment, and I'm a bit pessimistic about sorting out the roadmap...

about the banana....on simhq and other forums this forum has got such nick. I don't know why, but I would gess it is from the uncritical sucking up that is not so rare on this forum. You have probably noticed, that I don't have many posts - I don't speak unless I think I have sometihng constructive to add...


Ever see the colour of the walls? Psst. They're yellow. Hence the nick name. This place opened Oct 10, 07 (I think) and by the 8th it was affectionately called the banana forum.

[Armatian]

No, I couldn't disagree more and I can't believe the soft tone from so many of you! This is not some hobbyist/enthusiast creating a game in freetime...these are employees paid to create a simulation to be sold for profit.

Without Oleg in the background I am afraid that we will land up with a half-baked game that Pacific Fighters turned out to be. Sorry Luthier, you may be great at some aspects of software development but project management is not your strong point.

If 1C has been doing 12 hour days since the summer, something terribly wrong has happened to this project. If the team had put in half days for seven years the sim would have been completed.

Please keep up with the 12 hour days before the N American release so COD does not completely crash and burn.:evil:

They can be employees, but not yours, if don't like a product don't buy, buying something it's not a ticket for complaining, you get a license to use as is.
I see you spoke from eagerness to have a great sim, at least you said "please keep working 12hs" but i don't know if you work, but too much work can make a mess of you, and prevents the best solution to be found.

[BobTuck]

I posted this because I know a little about sacrifice, and be it they're saving their own butts or reputation, or trying to meet our wishes, they're still spending time away from their homes, friends and family and you don't need an expert to verify that this can pay a huge toll on your life. Whatever extra time they're using on CoD, they're sacrificing elsewhere. I'd rather sacrifice some of my time to applaud them for keeping up and actually NOT taking a break after this release. Judging by the developers' attitude and awareness of the situation I don't think they'll be popping that bottle of champagne just yet.

There are enough people at this forum that fire full critizism broadsides at the developers and basically bog down the forums in complains. Either rants or constructive forms of critizism. I thought I'd bring something decent in here that's NOT a fault report or bughunt.

+1

Nicely put, Strike.

BobTuck.

[Strike]

They can be employees, but not yours, if don't like a product don't buy, buying something it's not a ticket for complaining, you get a license to use as is.
I see you spoke from eagerness to have a great sim, at least you said "please keep working 12hs" but i don't know if you work, but too much work can make a mess of you, and prevents the best solution to be found.

Well said, though listening to Luthier talk about 12 hours a day 7 days a week since mid-summer I can't help but think that some of the motivation HAS to come from enjoying working on such a project, or at least being more than average interested in it.

To be honest if I was told to work 12 hours straight for a year without really any weekends I wouldn't handle it unless I was doing something I love. I'd never bother to refuel an aircraft, inspect it carefully and painstakingly thorough or send it on night-ops at 3 am after being at work for over 10 hours already unless I enjoyed it. I like the streamline shapes of aircraft, love the aviation environment, smell of JP-8, keeping aircraft in ship-shape and mission-ready. I'm proud of what I do, and it motivates me.

Still... let's face the facts, work is work. You're not resting, your brain is constantly working, thinking, solving... people need rest. Period. I think the efficiency-meter will plummet over time, not only towards the end of a long day, but gradually over long days over long weeks over very long time.

So yes, I'm very amazed that they keep working, and for that I'm grateful!

[Mango]

+1. And folks, remember the best way to thank them is with your wallet!

Pick up an extra copy of CoD for a friend. Spread the word on forums and review sites once the patches start plugging holes.

[Rattlehead]

We needed a thread like this.

Seriously, I've been reading doom mongers spreading stories like this is the end of the flight sim genre, the end of PC gaming and that this sim is doomed no matter how many patches are released.
Crazy stuff.

Obviously things are far from perfect, but as long as patches are in the works and the team is doing all they can to make things good in the long run, then I don't think it's time to start nailing this sim in it's coffin just yet. ;)

[jibo]

keep up luhier this gonna be a jewel

http://data.imagup.com/4/1116789263.JPG

[sallee]

No, I couldn't disagree more and I can't believe the soft tone from so many of you! This is not some hobbyist/enthusiast creating a game in freetime...these are employees paid to create a simulation to be sold for profit.

Without Oleg in the background I am afraid that we will land up with a half-baked game that Pacific Fighters turned out to be. Sorry Luthier, you may be great at some aspects of software development but project management is not your strong point.

If 1C has been doing 12 hour days since the summer, something terribly wrong has happened to this project. If the team had put in half days for seven years the sim would have been completed.

Please keep up with the 12 hour days before the N American release so COD does not completely crash and burn.:evil:

Bless.

And God bless America. If you're a "customer" you can ignore the realities of the market and insult anybody with immunity. Trouble is, a dick with a "customer" badge on is still a dick.

[Theshark888]

Bless.

And God bless America. If you're a "customer" you can ignore the realities of the market and insult anybody with immunity. Trouble is, a dick with a "customer" badge on is still a dick.

So, what's your point? No one has been insulted. You just insulted me by calling me a dick...you do know what a dick means don't you? Another Euro bashing the USA and calling an American names for being American?:rolleyes: What does the USA have to do with this?:confused:

As a Project Engineer I know all about 12 hour days for 7 days a week to get the job done. My point is that this sim has been going on for 6 years and some of you are ready to pat people on the back for working 12 hour days:!:

[damar]

+1

[Cpt.Badger]

+1. And folks, remember the best way to thank them is with your wallet!

Pick up an extra copy of CoD for a friend.

Or you can actually do something good with that money, i.e spend it on charity.

This thread has this distinctive smell... the smell of hopeless fanboism.

[reggiane]

All they have to do to ease the worries of all the people who have the game is some statement that there are indeed huge problems with the game and they are working on it.
Until this statement arrives, I will hold off from thanking them for doing a great job.
I own a copy of the infamous Silent Hunter 5 game so I tend to feel duped again.
This feeling can very easily be swiped away with an official statement things will be better in the very near future.

[Kikuchiyo]

All they have to do to ease the worries of all the people who have the game is some statement that there are indeed huge problems with the game and they are working on it.
Until this statement arrives, I will hold off from thanking them for doing a great job.
I own a copy of the infamous Silent Hunter 5 game so I tend to feel duped again.
This feeling can very easily be swiped away with an official statement things will be better in the very near future.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=247765#post247765

[reggiane]

Ah thanks, sorry I missed that one

[Theshark888]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=247765#post247765

Good post! The best intentions don't really mean much but I will keep an open mind and hope (pray) for the best:)

Now get this thing in order so you can start working on the North African campaign:-P

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

I think this is a good place to express my gratitude for this product even if it still has quite a few flaws. I know with our support there'll be a happy end with this dev team.

It will be a milestone in flight simulation and it is already outstanding in many features.

Please don't get frustrated by those negative comments. Not everybody thinks negatively nor has given up on this game.

[Mango]

Or you can actually do something good with that money, i.e spend it on charity.

This thread has this distinctive smell... the smell of hopeless fanboism.

It's the dirty smell of simmers who didn't shower because they continually had to play "one last mission!", and want the small software shops to keep putting out more sims.

[Strike]

It's the dirty smell of simmers who didn't shower because they continually had to play "one last mission!", and want the small software shops to keep putting out more sims.

I think it's the foul cheeze everyone eats with their whine here.

[OldBuzzard]

I think it's the foul cheeze everyone eats with their whine here.

No, it's the smell of the s*** sandwich, made with moldy bread, that UBI/1C/Oleg delivered to us (the IL2 community), after promising us Filet Mignon for the last 6-8 years.

[doghous3]

I haven't followed the development of this game at all. But I consistently see posters quoting a range from 6-10years..

Is there actually any official statement made by the developer's of when they actually sat down and decided to make CoD.

Not suggesting people are pulling figures out of the air mind, it's just a fleeting thought as to how long they actually have spent developing it.

[adonys]

if you'd ask me, I'd say 2-3 years at most, with the two programmers which actually appears in credits.

[easytarget3]

Hey guys,
iam with you, dont give up,continue support please, it will be very good sim with some of the best features ever made. even now i enjoy it.Big thanks.

[6S.Maraz]

Right now all I can say is thank you very very much not for bringing us the sim we are playing right now today, but the evolving product you are bringing us each and every day you keep putting your work into this masterpiece to be. I am one of those that believe this sim is the "ugly duckling" (not in a visual aspect! The game is beautiful) and will only get better with time!


Yes, really beautiful! :D
This is London as seen by a PC within the official specifications (XP, DX9):
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/46/london02m.jpg

Actually, when being sold, a game is supposed to be a complete product, not a beta...

Maraz

[bongodriver]

Actually, when being sold, a game is supposed to be a complete product, not a beta...

in principle this is true, but Eagle dynamics took money for access to a pre release beta, many products with all the best will in the world do get released that don't come up to expectation, I have used iPhone as an example before, but when iPhone was launched with all the hype and promises, people were camping outside of the shops to buy it (I did enjoy laughing at all those people that bought £500's worth of junk) but it got fixed in the end, so why is COD such a big deal? stuff like this happens, my life didn't end bcause COD needs fixing.

p.s. another example for you, anyone checked put Fighter Ops? they are taking money annually just so people can see some pics of promises, tally up several years worth of Area 51 subscriptions and then the game release cost.......will it be worth it? will it work out of the box?

[Strike]

Funny maraz, that looks really really bad. Required hardware usually is the minimum to be able to even start the game at all.

I bought a new rig and emptied my pockets JUST for the purpose of this sim. Does it lag? yes, does it micro-freeze? Yes. so am I angry?? No, I'm happy I can play with it in its state and I'm looking forward to see it unfold and improve over time. I don't HAVE to play it now to it's full potential....

I pre-ordered Natural Selection 2 through steam and that's a shitty, laggy-ass beta with beautiful graphics. However, I played the original and loved it for what it was. Game is going great and the company is earning a LOT of money on the beta, so why shouldn't IL-2 CoD improve after they got their initial sales? It can't get any worse now can it...? That's why beta patch was released so they don't screw up the install completely for everyone in a official auto-downloadable patch..

[OldBuzzard]

I haven't followed the development of this game at all. But I consistently see posters quoting a range from 6-10years..

Is there actually any official statement made by the developer's of when they actually sat down and decided to make CoD.

Not suggesting people are pulling figures out of the air mind, it's just a fleeting thought as to how long they actually have spent developing it.

Well, it was announced on the UBI page back on 5/16/2006, with a "release date" of November 2006, so it had obviously been in development for some time before that.

http://www.ubi.com/US/News/Info.aspx?nId=3950

I stand by my previous statement of 6-8 years.