The F4 vs G2 109 :confused:

[Dementia_Seven]

i never came to a point! please post ur expiriences here!

what is the better 109? the g2 or the f4?

i read about f4 got better aerodynamics but a weaker motor slower climb rate.
g2 instead got more power higher speed and of course more wight.

my expirience says, in g2 u get more victories especially when the opponent crashes on the deck but both got the same guns with it.

please help me out of this... :confused:

[Robotic Pope]

i never came to a point! please post ur expiriences here!

what is the better 109? the g2 or the f4?

i read about f4 got better aerodynamics but a weaker motor slower climb rate.
g2 instead got more power higher speed and of course more wight.

my expirience says, in g2 u get more victories especially when the opponent crashes on the deck but both got the same guns with it.

please help me out of this... :confused:

The G2 has the same aerodynamics as the F4. The G2 has basicly the same engine too, only the cylinder block was bored out to increase the engine capacity from 33.9l to 35.7, litres gaining around 175bhp. This engine performance gain let Messerschmitt fit larger fuel tanks and better protective armour. All this led to the 109G2 being 10% heavier than the 109F, which gave it a higher stall speed and less manuverability than the F and some nasty handling characteristics on take off and landing. This is why the 109F is known as the nicest 109 to fly and the best 109 in a dogfight.

The aerodynamics of the 109G6 though are worse than the F4 and G2, thanks to the larger 13mm machine guns needing more space for their breech mechanism (those two humps infront of the pilot create more drag).

[BeaverCompany01]

I think the G2 in this game performs better regardless of real world stats.

Just my 2 bits

[Robotic Pope]

I think the G2 in this game performs better regardless of real world stats.

Just my 2 bits

Well it is quite a bit faster than the F4, but I find the F4 does turn and roll better.

[BeaverCompany01]

If it rolls and turns better I would say "marginally" however I tend to use the higher energy and speed to its advantage and as such would give it a slight edge............plus the camouflage is cooler so it must be better...............lol

[vdomini]

The G2 has the same aerodynamics as the F4. The G2 has basicly the same engine too, only the cylinder block was bored out to increase the engine capacity from 33.9l to 35.7, litres gaining around 175bhp. This engine performance gain let Messerschmitt fit larger fuel tanks and better protective armour. All this led to the 109G2 being 10% heavier than the 109F, which gave it a higher stall speed and less manuverability than the F and some nasty handling characteristics on take off and landing. This is why the 109F is known as the nicest 109 to fly and the best 109 in a dogfight.

The aerodynamics of the 109G6 though are worse than the F4 and G2, thanks to the larger 13mm machine guns needing more space for their breech mechanism (those two humps infront of the pilot create more drag).

agree!

in game, F4 have weaker weapon than G2, mean it's lighter, and then turn better.

G2 have better weapon and engine a bit better, but a bit heavy.

So it's up to your flying style choosinge one...

[winny]

The F4 was much lighter and it's the favourite Mk of a lot of the top LW aces.
Everthing after the F4 was a compromise (aerobatically) in some way, even though performance increased (much like the the Spit from Mk 5 onwards)
I think the BoP versions are pretty close - F4 feels more agile than the G's and the G's are more agile than the K. Firepower wise it's the opposite, G's the middle for both, best of both worlds.


I love flying the F4 in bop but it's so hard to kill stuff in it that I end up in a G because when you hit something with that it stays hit!

[Dementia_Seven]

thanks for the replies. i had to say that i was knowing about all the tecnical dates about the 109s cause i have eaten up everything i could find about. Books, movies, newspapers etc... and i know the russian programmers kids who did bop wont do so realistic. so...

its the game perform that is confusing me!

BOTH PLANES GOT THE SAME GUNS!

why the g2 is seem to be a better killer?

for me one thing in the g2 feels completly different. the blackout in sharp turns seems to me darker than in same manouvers at the f4. that means that ur pulling mor Gs and that means ur turn is sharper. the same in negative G manouvers. at the g2 i had the feeling that there is more red than in the f4. please tell me more. i'm so still confused...
but both the f4 shall do!!!

so if u came to the same clue plaese tell

[Robotic Pope]

thanks for the replies. i had to say that i was knowing about all the tecnical dates about the 109s cause i have eaten up everything i could find about. Books, movies, newspapers etc... and i know the russian programmers kids who did bop wont do so realistic. so...

its the game perform that is confusing me!

BOTH PLANES GOT THE SAME GUNS!

why the g2 is seem to be a better killer?

for me one thing in the g2 feels completly different. the blackout in sharp turns seems to me darker than in same manouvers at the f4. that means that ur pulling mor Gs and that means ur turn is sharper. the same in negative G manouvers. at the g2 i had the feeling that there is more red than in the f4. please tell me more. i'm so still confused...
but both the f4 shall do!!!

so if u came to the same clue plaese tell

Personaly I have never felt the G2 to have more firepower than the F4. You are probably flying faster in the G2 while turning causing more blackout even though the turn is larger. Everything has to be done at a higher speed in the G2.

There is a spreadsheet that someone made back when the game was new, Its hiding somewhere on this forum. Its turn stats were flawed because he used low elevator sensitivity, but you can still compare the 109s performances against each other. I remember the 109F was the quickest to complete a turn.

[bobbysocks]

the F never seemed to serve me well. could just be my flying style ( or lack of it ). i have always had decent luck with the G2...it turns and rolls like a dream. i would have better luck openning the canopy and throwing my shoes at EA in from of me to bring it down tho. if it had a little better guns it would be the cat's @$$!! i have also done actually done better in the E3 than the F!

[Dementia_Seven]

u got right! of course more speed cause more Gs ^^

so the f4 was the hightest peak of evolution in bf 109s development.
the g2 is compareable but leaks of its added features. the frame of the plane was developed many years ago.

thanks for replys

the funny thing is, that doesnt help against spits who have a better turning rate in good hands while the guns are double as much as the bfs f4 and g2 got.

one question i had at least is about the g10!

it once was my favorite but i recognised it has some bumps on the wings. i thougt they where keeping the landing gear. right? why the g10 only has 3 guns. and no mk 108?

[grislawskijg52]

I like the g2 best... I feel at ground level in simulator it can be very elusive. It has enough firepower to compliment a good deflection shot (where its advantage lies). It also has the speed and maneuverability to make a quick escape. It does not in my opinion black out as much in the turns as a spit does. The g10 is comparable, but my understanding is that it cannon is bigger?? Not certain but, bezshimney flew it a bunch and swore by it.

[Robotic Pope]

I like the g2 best... I feel at ground level in simulator it can be very elusive. It has enough firepower to compliment a good deflection shot (where its advantage lies). It also has the speed and maneuverability to make a quick escape. It does not in my opinion black out as much in the turns as a spit does. The g10 is comparable, but my understanding is that it cannon is bigger?? Not certain but, bezshimney flew it a bunch and swore by it.

The G10 in the game is fitted with the same 20mm MK151/20 cannon that is in the F4,G2 and the K4's gondola gun pods.

By the way the MK151/20 fired twice as fast as the the MG FF 20mm cannons in the 109E, and it had much higher muzzle velocity, making it far more effective against armour. So the 1 cannon on the 109F4/G2/G10 is better than 2 on the 109E



one question i had at least is about the g10!

it once was my favorite but i recognised it has some bumps on the wings. i thougt they where keeping the landing gear. right? why the g10 only has 3 guns. and no mk 108?

I forgot to finish what I was saying about the G2 having created some unwanted/dangerous handling on take off and landing. Well to fix this for the next update (109G4) they found they needed to have larger wheels, and thus the G4 and later G variants had those drag creating lumps on the wings to acomodate the big wheels and also a drag creating unretractable tail wheel (The 109K repackaged everything to cut down the drag again to offset the even greater weight gain).

All this extra drag and weight made the G6 a bit of a pig in a dogfight especialy with the extra wing cannons fitted to take out bombers.
So the reason the G10 didn't have a MK108 and wasn't fitted with gondola wing pod cannons was to save weight and return some of its fighter qualities . The G10 was designed as a high altitude dogfighter with a enlarged supercharger to provide cover for the G6 bomber killers.

[Robotic Pope]

Personaly I have never felt the G2 to have more firepower than the F4. You are probably flying faster in the G2 while turning causing more blackout even though the turn is larger. Everything has to be done at a higher speed in the G2.

There is a spreadsheet that someone made back when the game was new, Its hiding somewhere on this forum. Its turn stats were flawed because he used low elevator sensitivity, but you can still compare the 109s performances against each other. I remember the 109F was the quickest to complete a turn.

I found the thread with the BoP plane data.http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10262

[vdomini]

..cut...

BOTH PLANES GOT THE SAME GUNS!

why the g2 is seem to be a better killer?


...cut..




I am not sure.... i remember clearly thatn G2 have bigger bore weapon.

Go into the HANGAR and examine G2 weapon and F4 weapon, you will notice that G2 have bigger caliber.... i'm 99% sure :cool:

[BRIGGBOY]

the f4 and g2 both have a 151 20mm cannon.

[winny]

I think maybe it's an error. The G2 could have the 30mm instead of the 20mm.

There are a few historical errors and wrong numbers, could just be one of those.

[vdomini]

the f4 and g2 both have a 151 20mm cannon.

Alright so maybe in game G2 is faster but more heavy that cause to be bit less agile than F4. :rolleyes:
Shooting from an heavy plane make a bit stable platform and maybe the bullet accourancy is increased.


who knows? lol

[Die Spinne]

G2 reigns supreme

[Dementia_Seven]

thank u all for reply

i had my confusion stoped. i say both planes are nearly the same. the higher speed of the g2 could give the bullets more power, thats right.

i would say for me this thread is closed

thx to all

[Die Spinne]

thank u all for reply

i had my confusion stoped. i say both planes are nearly the same. the higher speed of the g2 could give the bullets more power, thats right.

i would say for me this thread is closed

thx to all

Nearly identical; same guns, same responsiveness but as g2 has more power it can turn tighter in bop-land.
Speed doesnt improve accuracy for a straight shooter, it just brings u closer quicker so more bullets on target.

[vdomini]

thank u all for reply

i had my confusion stoped. i say both planes are nearly the same. the higher speed of the g2 could give the bullets more power, thats right.

i would say for me this thread is closed

thx to all

I checked on the hangar yesterday and they both have same gun :)
Oh well always remember BOP it's a piece of software some bugs might be hiding behind some palane flight model too ehhe :-)
I still feel myself more agile in F4, lightness is an advantage sometimes!

[Robotic Pope]

I checked on the hangar yesterday and they both have same gun :)
Oh well always remember BOP it's a piece of software some bugs might be hiding behind some palane flight model too ehhe :-)
I still feel myself more agile in F4, lightness is an advantage sometimes!

Well acording to Widar's BoP test stats, The 109F completes a roll almost 2 seconds faster than the G2. I would say that is quite a bit more agile.