navigating problems with BOB

[David198502]

hey guys!
i started a dogfight above the channel.after i shot down 6 hurries, i tried to make it to an airfield.but using the compass is really confusing.
my impression is that its not working properly.if i make a right turn, the degrees are decreasing, while it sould be the opposite.besides its really hard to hold course, or better said impossible.the smallest movement results in a heavy reaction on the compass.anybody can confirm this?is this a bug?or is it the way the instrument behaved in reality?if it is as it should be, how can one navigate?:confused:

[Azimech]

You can always look at the time and the position of the sun :-P

Isn't there an option for the HUD like we have in IL2? With the HUD compass you can compare the values of the real compass.

And maybe there is an option in the comms menu for requesting the vector to homebase ... but I can imagine that in russian it might be a problem to find it.

[JiWe]

hey guys!
i started a dogfight above the channel.after i shot down 6 hurries, i tried to make it to an airfield.but using the compass is really confusing.
my impression is that its not working properly.if i make a right turn, the degrees are decreasing, while it sould be the opposite.besides its really hard to hold course, or better said impossible.the smallest movement results in a heavy reaction on the compass.anybody can confirm this?is this a bug?or is it the way the instrument behaved in reality?if it is as it should be, how can one navigate?:confused:

Yes that is very much what happens in real life too with compasses! you should only read the compass when flying straight and level

[ZaltysZ]

It is magnetic dip. If you want to avoid its effects, you need to fly with wings level and with no change in speed. If you are turning or changing speed, compass will lie.

Basically, in this part of the world (BoB map, I mean), needle will turn towards North if speed is increasing, and towards South, if speed is decreasing. Also, needle will lag behind actual direction while turning from south to West (or vice versa) through North, and will lead actual direction while turning through South.

In addition, there are bank and pitch limits, so don't look at compass while in break turn. :)

[sigur_ros]

:confused:

Gets out GPS

[David198502]

thx for the answers!i knew that you shouldnt trust the compass while in a dogfight, but its really hard to read it even in level flight!

[bolox]

http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk/downloads/DLFiles/miscellaneous/The%20P4%20Compass.pdf

might give you some insight into the raf p type compass

sounds like Oleg finally has got this right after all these years;)

[Blackdog_kt]

hey guys!
i started a dogfight above the channel.after i shot down 6 hurries, i tried to make it to an airfield.but using the compass is really confusing.
my impression is that its not working properly.if i make a right turn, the degrees are decreasing, while it sould be the opposite.besides its really hard to hold course, or better said impossible.the smallest movement results in a heavy reaction on the compass.anybody can confirm this?is this a bug?or is it the way the instrument behaved in reality?if it is as it should be, how can one navigate?:confused:

This is how a real "whiskey" compass operates (that is, a compass that's suspended in liquid). It reacts to every single force of acceleration and takes time to stabilize. I saw it in a video on youtube and i really liked it, i like the attention to all instrument details in general.

But yes, it's definitely realistic. In order to be able to navigate with it you'll have to fly straight and level and let it settle down a bit first.

This is also the reason why many aircraft have a secondary gyroscopic compass (i think you can find one in the panel of the 110 and definitely in bombers like the He-111). That one is more accurate but it tends to "drift" over time. Similar systems exist on civilian aircraft today.

The way a real pilot would do it is take look at the whiskey compass before take-off, when the aircraft is stationary and everything is stable. So, if your whiskey compass says 60 degrees heading, you turn a small button on your gyro compass so that it also shows 60 degrees. Then you use the gyro compass for the rest of the flight, just make sure to re-align it with the whiskey compass from time to time whenever you are flying steady, straight and level to get rid of the gyroscopic "drift".

To get an idea of how this works in practice, try flying the 111 and see if there are any buttons you can manipulate with the clickable cockpit interface on the gyro compass (to switch the clickable interface on/off i think you have to press F10).

I hope this helps. ;)

[mazex]

Sure true, my flying career IRL started in a Bergfalke II/55 built in 1959 before the GPS era with instruments that looked like they where taken from scrapped 109:s ;) Behaved just that way - while turning they go nuts... Go on straight course a while and they wobble to a stable state :)

[NLS61]

hey guys!
i started a dogfight above the channel.after i shot down 6 hurries, i tried to make it to an airfield.but using the compass is really confusing.
my impression is that its not working properly.if i make a right turn, the degrees are decreasing, while it sould be the opposite.besides its really hard to hold course, or better said impossible.the smallest movement results in a heavy reaction on the compass.anybody can confirm this?is this a bug?or is it the way the instrument behaved in reality?if it is as it should be, how can one navigate?:confused:

Hi check out the following link.

http://www.localnetnet.be/comp.teaching.htm#ROTATION%20FAULT:

Niels

[Asheshouse]

Little snippets of detail and realism like this are just brilliant.

[BadAim]

Wow an actual conversation about the actual game, be careful guys, people will think this is a forum! Seriously though, nice info, it'll come in handy. I can't believe the workload on these planes, I feel like I'm really getting the feel for what these guy's had to do to survive (much less get any kills).

[Blackdog_kt]

Aye, the amount of detail on all instruments is insane, from the spinning whiskey compass and the RPM needles oscillating as the prop governor tries to keep the RPM steady, to the airspeed indicator shaking in turbulence and/or terminal speed dives.


By the way, artificial horizons tumble as well during maneuvers. Watch around the 1:00 minute mark here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23DfxgXmUz4&feature=player_embedded

[PE_Tigar]

Sure true, my flying career IRL started in a Bergfalke II/55 built in 1959 before the GPS era with instruments that looked like they where taken from scrapped 109:s ;) Behaved just that way - while turning they go nuts... Go on straight course a while and they wobble to a stable state :)

LOL, I've flown my CPL practical exam in heavy turbulence in a C-172RG from 1970's - it did have a gyro, but it was drifting so much I needed to realign it every five minutes! BTW, most (or all? at least all I've seen) whiskey compass mounts turn contrary to the turn you're making, so if you need to fly based on that only your brain has to work that out too. Well, all in the name of reality :).

[Skoshi Tiger]

I thought while in England you just followed the train lines to the nearest recognisable pub, Then made your back to your airfield as per normal!

Navigation accross the channel is anyones guess?

Cheers!

[kashwashwa]

One thing I noticed that had amazing detail, was seeing the red fluid in one of the gauges in the training plane shift around from plane movement. (press delete for zoomed in fov of 30 degrees to have a good look)

[Blackdog_kt]

I thought while in England you just followed the train lines to the nearest recognisable pub, Then made your back to your airfield as per normal!

Navigation accross the channel is anyones guess?

Cheers!

According to the manual there's some sort of electronic equipment available. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see wartime electronics making an appearance in CoD, since there's ground-based radar modeled in the sim to begin with.

I don't know if we'll get beacons like the ones introduced by the TD patches for IL2 (maybe they were a later development and not present during the BoB), but the manual clearly states that we can use the German blind bombing system. If i'm not mistaken it was called knickebein (excuse my guess at spelling as i don't speak German) and i think it means "limp leg" or something like that.

The way it worked was that the bomber "rode" one beam to target via instruments and/or audio cues. The main beam was intersected along 2-3 points by secondary beams identified by separate audio cues, marking the "x minutes to target" points as well as the actual bomb release point. I think it even featured automatic bomb release.

The catch? In order for it to be accurate, you had to fly a very specific altitude and speed, which i presume would be TAS (maybe even ground speed to account for wind) and not IAS.

The way it works in-game (according to the manual at least) is that the beams are placed from within the FMB, just like the radio beacons in IL2.

[6S.Maraz]

I don't know if we'll get beacons like the ones introduced by the TD patches for IL2 (maybe they were a later development and not present during the BoB), but the manual clearly states that we can use the German blind bombing system.

There are beacons in the FMB (of course they did exist in 1940) you can set their frequency, army and nation. But I was unable to make them work in mission (tried with Heinkel and the AFN indicator did not move).

Maraz