Shame on you for using STEAM !

[JG53Frankyboy]

http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162

from an user that had only had bad experinces every time i had to use steam - most times was not able to play the games...

[JG52Uther]

Well thats f*****d it. :(

[Revvin]

It may not be liked by everyone but I have bought around 90 games that run on that service with no issues at all. I find it a pretty slick service.

[JG52Uther]

How are online wars played on steam Revvin?

[#402FOX]

Never had trouble with Steam. all the games i have bought through steam have worked.

[JG53Frankyboy]

i have calmed down a bit :D

i still hope that this steam stuff is only a possibility for online play like in the past with UBI.
That you can still use tools like the Hyperlobby and are not forced to play via steam !

i guess some clarificationj is needed from official side here please !

[The Kraken]

i have calmed down a bit :D

i still hope that this steam stuff is only a possibility for online play like in the past with UBI.
That you can still use tools like the Hyperlobby and are not forced to play via steam !

i guess some clarificationj is needed from official side here please !

Oleg commented some months ago that Steam would be included on the publisher's request, but 3rd party tools like hyperlobby would still be possible. Not sure if that info is till up to date though.

[JG52Uther]

Judging by the conflicting info about the release at UBI I doubt even they know whats going in...

[speculum jockey]

I had a terrible time trying to get Half Life 2 to run on release day, and for the next week as well. Mind you that was 5/6 years ago and I have not had a single issue since then.

No matter what setup you use, there is always going to be some unlucky guy who gets a string of bad experiences.

[Avimimus]

Well, the big issues will appear if steam tries to mess with customised installs (patching etc.), has compatibility issues or hems in multiplayer modes.

IMHO, the issues Silent Hunter V had with DRM wouldn't have existed if it was a FPS. If your shooting ten bullets at an opponent and your saving game cause the two which are airborne to disappear - it is no big deal. But, if you've spent three hours setting up a torpedo run in a Type-II and saving game causes half of your torpedoes for that tour to vanish from the water...

A lot of these big companies don't understand our genre.

[JG53Frankyboy]

HL2 , no go
Modern Warfare only after some very deep search in the forums
TotalWar Empire no go

i have preordered the Collectors Edition of CoD so far. But im thinking to switch to the standard edition (not so much money wasted in case STEAM will not allow me to use the game , again..) or to cancel it totaly.
I am waiting for some more information from official !C or UBI side about the need of STEAM use in CoD.

[Royraiden]

I have been using Steam for more than 5 years without a single problem.In fact Im glad that it will be available through steam.

[JG53Frankyboy]

but a second questionj is dou you want it play online exclusivly through steam too ??

if the install/purchase and online play via STEAM is a CHOICE , its totlay OK.
But if you are forced to use STEAM...

the statement on the UBO püage is not totaly clear in that, at least in my understanding as a non native english speaker.

[Royraiden]

but a second questionj is dou you want it play online exclusivly through steam too ??

if the install/purchase and online play via STEAM is a CHOICE , its totlay OK.
But if you are forced to use STEAM...

the statement on the UBO püage is not totaly clear in that, at least in my understanding as a non native english speaker.

Definitely having it as a choice should be the right decision.No doubts about that.

[Kikuchiyo]

I use Steam pretty much exclusively, and honestly prefer games that use it's match making service too. I've never had issues with Steam itself, but someone used the example of Moder Warfare, and the recent Total War, which if we are totally honest were buggy piles of crap at launch. That isn't Valve or Steamwork's fault when a publsisher/developer hocks off some bloody awful port that won't run for most people.

These issues need to be pointed out and seperated. Steam can't be held accountable for the short comings of the publishers/developers that offer their software through Steam any more than you can hold a B&M store accountable in that regard. Does Steam have it's issues? Sure. All software has issues. I for one am not going to go into panic mode over this. If day one comes and I pay forth my money to get Il-2 Cliffs of Dover and it can't or won't run I will be up in arms, and likely will request a refund. I, however, highly doubt that will be necessary. Steam has improved in functionality and usefulness in leaps and bounds since the early days of HL2.

To another question that was brought up (or a couple actually): a)Whether or not I can mod my game with Steam? Yes, just like any other bit of software find the file and change it. Steam will not change it back unless an applied patch does that. (i.e. the developer's patch undoes all mods)
b) Can I run the version of the game I want to run (i.e. I don't like the current patch and want to run an older version)? Yes, and no. You can back up the current version to a separate folder for posterities sake, and if a new patch comes out that you don't like you can pull the old files out. You will have to set the game to not auto update, but hold onto that older file because when Steam starts back up it will update an out of date version of the game in it's subfolders. This does not mean the same thing as erasing mods.

160 games through steam. only game I have issue with and can't run is Rome: Total War, and that is because I use windows 7 and that game can't run on this OS.

[Vevster]

It will all depend on the lobby included in the game in fact. It it's as good as Hyperlobby, then no issue, Steam or not

[Bowtome]

Just because it is on Steam doesn't mean it will use steam lobbies or match making.

For example, I bought Dirt 2 on steam, but it uses GFWL *games for windows live* for matchmaking etc.

I bought MOH on steam, but that uses in game lobbies etc.

[fireship4]

"Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game."

As other people may have said, this makes me worry to what extent will steam be required. ie will it be necessary if you are playing online? Will it need to be on when playing single player? The only thing we can hope is that Oleg and team are generally in favour of the customer. The publisher is of course another matter, i guess we'll see what happens.

[addman]

Already got Steam installed so no problem here. Got 11 games so far and none have given me grief, even Empire: Total War. Gotta admit I really love the sales they have on steam, Kane & Lynch 1 and 2 for 8€ last week, yes thank you!

[Biggs]

I for one am very pleased that its going to be on Steam (even though there's not a single word about CoD on it currently)... the service has been very reliable for some years now.

id say over 50% of the games in my steam library are downloaded straight from Steam.

[Revvin]

Depending on how much of the Steamworks SDK they use for online play it may just take a large step forward. No need for external apps, an integrated friends list so you could see if your squad mates are online and potentially what server they are on and be one click away from being able to automatically join them. You can set up groups online in Steam too so you could have a group for this whole forum to see when people are online or set up a group for your squad. As I said it depends how much of Steamworks they use but things like the overlay which allows you to send out messages to mates while still in the game can also be a benefit. Also if it activates via Steam then it may work like other games where you buy the cd copy, activate your key in Steam but then if you have to reinstall at a later date and your CD is damaged you can download it free from Steam because you registered the key. VAC or Valve Anti Cheat is not perfect but it should keep out a lot of cheats which is surely a good thing.

[Matt255]

I did have some problems with Steam in its early days. That was a long time ago.

I didn't have any problems with Steam for atleast 6 years now. I usually buy games over Steam, if i can't find them cheaper elsewhere.

[TheGrunch]

How are online wars played on steam Revvin?
Errr...the same way they are on every other service, maybe? Using server scripts and dedicated server software. Steam does not affect this. This server (http://www.adw.alkar.net/en/), for example is advertised on Hyperlobby and Xfire, it doesn't matter which one you use. What you want to be worrying about is the quality of the dedicated server/server management software.

[Kikuchiyo]

Another benefit of Steam being integrated into Cliffs of Dover is the fact that you can keep track of those little shits that use Wonder Woman mode, or people you suspect running at really low resolutions for advantages, and just not play with them. Blacklist those s.o.b. in your community groups.

You can also help spread the word about the game by just playing. People you have friended will see you playing it and possibly ask you what it is, and hell before you know it more people are buying it, and then their friends ask them about it so on and so forth. I think any downsides to Steam are really negated by the many many upsides it offers as a platform for gaming. It has in all honesty breathed new life into the PC gaming market, and I for one am glad it exsists. I've discovered new games and new genres through it, and introduced others to games and genres they would never have played.

If you focus on the negative you will never see the positive and I am just trying to add a bit of that light, and yes I am a huge fan of Steam. It resurrected gaming on my favorite platform, the PC.

[Biggs]

What you want to be worrying about is the quality of the dedicated server/server management software.

and isnt that determined by the developer of the game and not Steam?

[TheGrunch]

and isnt that determined by the developer of the game and not Steam?
Yes. That is exactly my point.

[Biggs]

Yes. That is exactly my point.

rgr that.

[ghodan]

Quote: Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game. "

But no pre-order yet on steam.... again UBIFAIL.

I dont want to download the game on ubishop.
I already use steam and impulse. I dont need a 3rd online buy/download system.

[KG26_Alpha]

Quote: Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game. "

But no pre-order yet on steam.... again UBIFAIL.

I dont want to download the game on ubishop.
I already use steam and impulse. I dont need a 3rd online buy/download system.

Ok Edit

I was under the impression there was more than one way to use the online aspect

1. Internal browser in the CoD GUI
2. External Source (Now know to be Steam)
3. Third Party Software.

If its solely Steam Online Play it wall fail like the UBI servers did back in 2001

[Kikuchiyo]

Ubisoft's faq in the OP

[=XIII=Shea]

matchmaking wtf:confused:?dont like the sound of that

[KG26_Alpha]

Ubisoft's faq in the OP

Thxz edited above.

[Kikuchiyo]

Thxz edited above.

No problem.

[Vyper]

Interesting to note that while it includes that steam line in the UK's ubi post, that line is completely missing in the ubi forums US page which has the same info almost word for word.


Steam is a virus...a control tool and will never make its way back on to any computer system I own.

I didn't buy SH5 because of the forced steam issue.
I didn't buy N:TW because of the steam issue ( and because ETW was such a disappointment and forced me to be on steam to multiplay)
Playing ARMA2 CO is a perfect example of why I won't deal with steam. I can run the game without a hitch, and make choices for myself. Squad members who bought it via steam are forced to take patches the DAY the are released on steam, regardless of settings, keeping them off the server...just as one example. I won't go into the nightmare that is encountered if they want to run mods like ACE2 for example.

While steam might be some kind of neat little thing for games like halo, I have no desire to have my gaming and chat controlled and recorded to be sold by 3rd party companies like valve. They can keep their software...I don't want it again, thank you.

[Kikuchiyo]

While steam might be some kind of neat little thing for games like halo, I have no desire to have my gaming and chat controlled and recorded to be sold by 3rd party companies like valve. They can keep their software...I don't want it again, thank you.

My use of Steam doesn't mean I enjoy retarded console games. Hell I see people in here praising garbage like the Call of Duty games. Don't try and make it out that it is some kind of console fanboi thing. It single handedly brought PC gaming back onto the market.

How does Steam control your chat? It doesn't really "control" your gaming either. It creates a library of the games you own and lets you play them at your will while simultaneously keeping them patched to the latest version. You can easily do mods for a game in your Steam library like any other game, and as a matter of fact Valve(which is the people who CREATED Steam and not a "third party") offers up and promotes mods made for their games. You are spouting untruths and misinformation, and passing it off as fact. If you want an older version of your game then back it up, and when steam updates it for you as a convenience just replace the new version with the older one you backed up.

The only reason I see you would have a problem modding a game in your Steam library is you aren't competent enough to find the folder to put it in, but you would have that issue if you didn't have the Steam version.

As to their privacy policy (http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html) Yes, they do offer none identifiable information to third parties, such as what games you play. This isn't something new. Do you honestly think that when you register a game from a publisher that they don't do this same thing?

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, i never register any games with any publishers. Also, having to back up an entire game folder to keep an older version is a major pain in the balls and exactly what half the IL2 community was bitching about when mods appeared: multiple installations. Well, if it's bad when the modders do it it's also bad if publishers do it, we can't have double standards.

In any case, i shouldn't have to be forced to jump through fiery hoops to enjoy something i paid for, especially when it's common knowledge that it is perfectly capable of working as it should without the layers of tacked on external software and without needing extra work. It doesn't need the devs to spend time on it to improve it, when in fact it's the integration with all the external applications that is costing them time. If they didn't integrate with them the game would probably be more customizable, run smoother and save them time as well.

See, this is the issue with all these external apps. They are supposed to be "added value" tools and this is true but only up to a point, because they usually introduce as much inconvenience as they do useful features.

In steam's case the only worthwhile advantage for a player would be the ability to download the game if the original disc gets damaged. The whole "friend's list" and contacts feature is nice to have but not critical. Finally, for people who are already owners of other Steam games it's a good chance to advertise CoD to their existing friends, for example when you log in and they see "player X is not playing Cliff of Dover".

As for disadvantages, forced patching and multiple backups required to circumvent it are downright unacceptable. I sincerely hope they only use it as a mutliplayer lobby that can be bypassed and not as an all-in-one "manage your entire game experience" tool.

Finally,

but a second questionj is dou you want it play online exclusivly through steam too ??

if the install/purchase and online play via STEAM is a CHOICE , its totlay OK.
But if you are forced to use STEAM...

the statement on the UBO püage is not totaly clear in that, at least in my understanding as a non native english speaker.

That's my take on things as well. We know it will already have Solidshield DRM, so i guess that Steam is not there for copy protection. I hope they only plan to use it as a match-making/multiplayer lobby service.

I don't mind it as long as
a) it works
b) it doesn't force any additional DRM checks on top of Solidshield
c) it can by bypassed if i want to use another multiplayer server browser
d) i can revert to an older patch and finally
e) i can install the game to the drive and folder i want to


A lot of conditions some of you might say, but i'm a customer and since i'm not asking for something new (it's not exactly cutting edge technology to have the ability to select your installation folder or skip a problematic patch until the hotfix is released) i think it's not much to ask.

Anything less and i'll still get the game, but i'll lobby and raise a fuss on Ubi's forums to make it optional in the next expansion until i'm blue in the face, and that's a commitment :evil:

[meshuggahs]

Gotta love the anti-steam fuss. Let's see if we can match the whine that Civ5 had!
Besides the steam anticheat (VAC?) is more than wellcome.

[Dano]

Steam does not force you to patch, there is an option on every game to set it to manual not automatic updates.

[addman]

Steam does not force you to patch, there is an option on every game to set it to manual not automatic updates.

True dat!

[Kikuchiyo]

Well, i never register any games with any publishers. Also, having to back up an entire game folder to keep an older version is a major pain in the balls and exactly what half the IL2 community was bitching about when mods appeared: multiple installations. Well, if it's bad when the modders do it it's also bad if publishers do it, we can't have double standards.

In any case, i shouldn't have to be forced to jump through fiery hoops to enjoy something i paid for, especially when it's common knowledge that it is perfectly capable of working as it should without the layers of tacked on external software and without needing extra work. It doesn't need the devs to spend time on it to improve it, when in fact it's the integration with all the external applications that is costing them time. If they didn't integrate with them the game would probably be more customizable, run smoother and save them time as well.

See, this is the issue with all these external apps. They are supposed to be "added value" tools and this is true but only up to a point, because they usually introduce as much inconvenience as they do useful features.

In steam's case the only worthwhile advantage for a player would be the ability to download the game if the original disc gets damaged. The whole "friend's list" and contacts feature is nice to have but not critical. Finally, for people who are already owners of other Steam games it's a good chance to advertise CoD to their existing friends, for example when you log in and they see "player X is not playing Cliff of Dover".

As for disadvantages, forced patching and multiple backups required to circumvent it are downright unacceptable. I sincerely hope they only use it as a mutliplayer lobby that can be bypassed and not as an all-in-one "manage your entire game experience" tool.

Finally,



That's my take on things as well. We know it will already have Solidshield DRM, so i guess that Steam is not there for copy protection. I hope they only plan to use it as a match-making/multiplayer lobby service.

I don't mind it as long as
a) it works
b) it doesn't force any additional DRM checks on top of Solidshield
c) it can by bypassed if i want to use another multiplayer server browser
d) i can revert to an older patch and finally
e) i can install the game to the drive and folder i want to


A lot of conditions some of you might say, but i'm a customer and since i'm not asking for something new (it's not exactly cutting edge technology to have the ability to select your installation folder or skip a problematic patch until the hotfix is released) i think it's not much to ask.

Anything less and i'll still get the game, but i'll lobby and raise a fuss on Ubi's forums to make it optional in the next expansion until i'm blue in the face, and that's a commitment :evil:

Hate to break it to you, but 1C are the big proponents of Steam. I am suspeting that it is 1C that is in charge of the DD decision here(speculative based on things said by Oleg and Ilya maybe they can confirm deny this) If that is the case then more money will go to 1C for a Steam purchase.

As for the backing up thing being a pita I agree, but at the same time if the game does exclusively use the Steam MP platform then the need for backups would be moot anyway. I honestly don't know why someone would be a huge advocate of running older buggier versions of software other than the very few instances that a patch makes a game less playable than it was before.

Your opinion on what is worthwhile is not factual ergo I will leave it at that.

a. Barring the highly unlikely chance that 1C Maddox releases it in a super buggy state, it will work.

b. Steam doesn't force DRM checks beyond when you are using it in online, and that really is just a "is this in their owned games list?". Nothing intrusive just a quick load screen.

c. unfortunately the way it's worded I suspect that it will use the steam MP platform by default, but I imagine there will be a mod from this community to circumvent that if possible.

d. I already laid that out, yes it's a pita, but it allows that.

e. You tell Steam where it installs itself and it will always add your Steam software to that folder (it creates subfolders that your games go in in that drive.) Not sure the importance of putting it in special folders. Understand the drive thing and just trying to ensure you understand how it works.

All in all I hope no one boycotts the game because of Steam, and maybe just maybe some of you will find that you actually like Steam. I was really adverse to it in the beginning too, but I can't really imagine doing a lot of my PC gaming without all the conveniences and fringe benefits it offers.

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, i prefaced everything with a clear enough "i don't mind as long as". It's not like i'm claiming facts that Steam is a certain way, i'm just saying what i don't like IF it's a certain way ;)

On this particular matter however



As for the backing up thing being a pita I agree, but at the same time if the game does exclusively use the Steam MP platform then the need for backups would be moot anyway. I honestly don't know why someone would be a huge advocate of running older buggier versions of software other than the very few instances that a patch makes a game less playable than it was before.


there are many reasons to keep running an older version. Usually, dedicated servers take some time to catch up with the latest version. If they too update via Steam then this won't be an issue.

Another reason is mods. I still don't have 4.10 because i knew that the mod pack i use would have to wait for the 4.101 hotfix first before releasing a new mod pack version that's compatible with it. This will depend on how mods will be handled in CoD.

Finally, it's not uncommon to have a patch introduce new bugs along with fixes to older ones. I want to have some control over what version i'm using for this exact reason, sometimes the new bugs can be worse than old ones so i skip an update until everything is sorted out.

This has been an issue for some RoF players as well, because with every few updates the system requirements are going uphill a notch. Some people have computers that are perfectly capable of running it in the state it was 3-4 patches back, but they don't have the option to rollback because the updates are forced. Well, anything that shuts a legitimate buyer out is bad as a matter of principle, plus it's one more reason to prefer a pirated copy for many people. I've used cracks on a few games i bought just for that reason, the cracked one worked better than the stock one and this is just absurd no matter how we look at it.

As for the rest of your post, i appreciate your explanation on how steam actually works. If i can install on the drive of my choice and have the ability to update manually (as someone else stated is possible) then it's a big reassurance.

I'm not anti-Steam as a principle, i just don't want unnecessary layers of complexity interfering with my gaming. I mostly fly offline and only use a couple of servers when going online, flying with a small set of people. In that sense the fringe benefits of Steam integration are completely useless to me. I'm not saying it shouldn't be there because it's useless to me, since it is clearly useful to others. However, i appreciate not having someone's software set-up preferences forced on me just like i'm not keen on forcing my own on others. Introducing a lot of features and making them optional is what works best in the long run for everyone involved.

[tintifaxl]

...
Besides the steam anticheat (VAC?) is more than wellcome.

VAC is a toothless old dog, that can't bite any of the cheaters. Look at CS:S or COD. Absolutely useless.

[Revvin]

Yes I can sympathise about the RoF system requirements suddenly ramping up. About a year or o ago I bought RoF and on my old dual core system with 2GB ram it just about ran with just me and a computer pilot dogfighting. I was ok with that because I took a chance on buying it then knowing I'd upgrade anyway at some point (though circumstances meant that upgrade got delayed a year). So quite happily I'd hone my 1 on 1 dogfighting skills waiting for the day I'd upgrade. It was fun doing that but then a patch went live and suddenly my little 1 vs 1 ground my PC to a halt. I was into very low single digit FPS and the game was unplayable. Since then I've upgraded so I can play again but appreciate how patches can impact performance.

That said you can chose to not update a game via Steam, its just a quite right click on the game and selecting its properties and select not to automatically keep up to date. I think though with 1C's track record we're safe from any game killing patches. I hope that those cautious about Steam will perhaps find as many of us did that its not something to be cautious about but in fact something I'm happy to see when developers use the Steamworks system.

[tintifaxl]

Another thing regarding Steam: if the decision to use the steam libraries wasn't made a few weeks ago, I don't think we will see a release on the 25th with working multiplayer. Integrating a framework this far down the development process will take some time.

[Vyper]

Steam does not force you to patch, there is an option on every game to set it to manual not automatic updates.

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

[kashwashwa]

Steam is a virus...

Playing ARMA2 CO is a perfect example of why I won't deal with steam. I can run the game without a hitch, and make choices for myself. Squad members who bought it via steam are forced to take patches the DAY the are released on steam, regardless of settings, keeping them off the server...just as one example. I won't go into the nightmare that is encountered if they want to run mods like ACE2 for example.


Please do go into the nightmare that is encountered.

I have every piece of DLC for the game, I've installed all of the mods I want (Even ACE2!), I play online with several different groups of people and I have never had an issue because the game is on steam.

[zauii]

Nothing wrong with the service at all, been a happy customer since the beginning with minor issues. This should give the sim great publicity, besides most steam related issue can be traced back to the users, aka not steams fault.

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

Bullshit, steam and mods work perfectly. Some good examples would be Counterstrike, Ro, Half Life , seriously half of the folks around here dissing steam havnt even tried it or doesn't know how to use it.. pathetic.

[Vyper]

Please do go into the nightmare that is encountered.

I have every piece of DLC for the game, I've installed all of the mods I want (Even ACE2!), I play online with several different groups of people and I have never had an issue because the game is on steam.

You don't think changing your batch file in some remote call is a headache? Perhaps your computer skills are much higher than the average person. I have walked through arma2 steam issues with people enough to know I won't do it anymore (one of the steam guys handles all the issues with steam users now). I never said it won't work...what I said was it is not easy to make it work. PITA is a term that comes to mind.

I don't care. I rent a small arma server for our squad. This last 6 months has seen a number of patches released...and I could control when I put a patch up on the server...but the steam guys always forced the issue or couldn't play because of they are controlled by valve.

All that said...its a choice. Which I like. because I choose not to have steam installed to I can be part of data collection for marketing and a simpler operation overall without 3rd party crap. When the choice is removed, thats what I have issue with.

[Vyper]

Bullshit, steam and mods work perfectly. Some good examples would be Counterstrike, Ro, Half Life , seriously half of the folks around here dissing steam havnt even tried it or doesn't know how to use it.. pathetic.

Nice.

[Revvin]

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

Did it not occur to you that its the developer at fault and not Steam? Other games download small patches and update, Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty games etc.

[Kikuchiyo]

All that said...its a choice. Which I like. because I choose not to have steam installed to I can be part of data collection for marketing and a simpler operation overall without 3rd party crap. When the choice is removed, thats what I have issue with.

You could choose to keep your server up to date. Steam also auto updates the server software btw.

[Revvin]

For anyone who is interested there is already a group on Steam for IL-2 CoD here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/IL2COD

[Tiger27]

Interesting to note that while it includes that steam line in the UK's ubi post, that line is completely missing in the ubi forums US page which has the same info almost word for word.


Steam is a virus...a control tool and will never make its way back on to any computer system I own.

I didn't buy SH5 because of the forced steam issue.
I didn't buy N:TW because of the steam issue ( and because ETW was such a disappointment and forced me to be on steam to multiplay)
Playing ARMA2 CO is a perfect example of why I won't deal with steam. I can run the game without a hitch, and make choices for myself. Squad members who bought it via steam are forced to take patches the DAY the are released on steam, regardless of settings, keeping them off the server...just as one example. I won't go into the nightmare that is encountered if they want to run mods like ACE2 for example.

While steam might be some kind of neat little thing for games like halo, I have no desire to have my gaming and chat controlled and recorded to be sold by 3rd party companies like valve. They can keep their software...I don't want it again, thank you.

Break out the tinfoil hat :rolleyes:

[Sven]

Steam is okay, hasn't always been okay, but now it's reliable. I had trouble with Empire: Total War some years ago, but with Darkest Hour and Red Orchestra ( FPS games) I have had zero trouble so far.

[Steuben]

ETW was buggy! NTW is fine by now!

Most of the time on Multiplayer it says " you lost connection to Steam" or "You dropped frome the game" when infact you neither lost your connection nor that NTW crashes or you quit the game! its just ends the Multiplayer battle this piece of crap!!!! I hate it!

[Vyper]

You could choose to keep your server up to date. Steam also auto updates the server software btw.

I am well aware of the options, thanks. For the cost I chose not to spend the money on a true dedicated server that would allow a remote connect to install exe's. But thanks for the helpful suggestions.

[zauii]

How does Steam specifically "**** up a lot of online battles?" I seem to recall that NTW was pretty dam buggy and that had nothing to do with Steam.


Agree, I personally have Empire Total War, and that game was a mess from the beginning. Was it steams fault? Nope, it was Creative Assembly and their utterly broken game, not steam.
It's funny how some can't tell the difference, if its on steam and broke its suddenly steams fault. Another obvious game with a ton of issues was Modern Warfare 2.. a complete disaster in every way possible, guess its steams fault also?

[Vyper]

Break out the tinfoil hat :rolleyes:

You don't read much do you? How do you think they make all their money? Its not game sales as much as you would think. It's data sales.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

Thats just the start. Like I said, if you choose to use that service, good for you. I choose not to. Why should I be forced to?

[Kikuchiyo]

I am well aware of the options, thanks. For the cost I chose not to spend the money on a true dedicated server that would allow a remote connect to install exe's. But thanks for the helpful suggestions.

So.....your argument is really more about being change due to fiscal concerns than any actual issue with Steam. I'm not saying I can't see your points, but to be fair this isn't really Steam's fault.

Yes it does suck that sometimes a game works better in an older version than it does in a newer version, but honestly isn't that more a dev issue than Valve's? Steam's "don't autoupdate feature" works as long as Steam is working, but if you shut it down and start it back up it will update anything that isn't up to date. I do agree this feature needs to be fixed, but to use this as some point of vehement despise for the entire platform is a bit over the top you've got to admit.

Edit: was being an ass fixed it to be more polite

[Revvin]

You don't read much do you? How do you think they make all their money? Its not game sales as much as you would think. It's data sales.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html



Thats just the start. Like I said, if you choose to use that service, good for you. I choose not to. Why should I be forced to?

Thats was cleverly snipped to make it look as bad as possible, do you write newspaper headlines by any chance? If people read on then it does clearly state:


"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

[Vyper]

Y Steam's "don't autoupdate feature" works as long as Steam is working, but if you shut it down and start it back up it will update anything that isn't up to date. I do agree this feature needs to be fixed, but to use this as some point of vehement despise for the entire platform is a bit over the top you've got to admit.

Edit: was being an ass fixed it to be more polite

It's just one of the many reasons I don't use steam. You have to admit having a feature called "don't auto update" that only works while you are online is pointless if it updates on reboot regardless.

I don't understand why so many are so passionately defending that service. Seems kind of silly to me.

[Heliocon]

Steam is the best platform for PC gaming around atm. Its also the most profitable.

[Kikuchiyo]

It's just one of the many reasons I don't use steam. You have to admit having a feature called "don't auto update" that only works while you are online is pointless if it updates on reboot regardless.

I don't understand why so many are so passionately defending that service. Seems kind of silly to me.

a) I did agree.

b) No more silly than your bashing and flat out being disingenuous or lying about it.

[Vyper]

Thats was cleverly snipped to make it look as bad as possible, do you write newspaper headlines by any chance? If people read on then it does clearly state:

You must work for the news service...your post kind of proves my point.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

But since you are choosing to take snippets instead of grabbing the information as a whole, let me do more work for you.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user. While Valve collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis, for certain products and online sites, Valve's collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to the product or site. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Valve in databases situated in the United States. Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services.

By the time you add in all the little "click I agree" check boxes in those purposely long agreement statements, you've pretty much agreed to whatever they want from you. If someone sat you down and asked you in plain English for all the things they are collecting and asking for, you would tell them to go f themselves no way would you agree to than. but its easy to hide in the "crap i want to play let me click it" boxes.

We can go on and on. The point is, I choose not to be part of the corporate information and control machine. Why is that making you angry? Should I NOT be allow to make my own choices?

[Vyper]

a) I did agree.

b) No more silly than your bashing and flat out being disingenuous or lying about it.

Lying? Done with you.

[Robert]

I use my PC for work as well as entertainment. Several UBI games I purchased in years past gave my ability to burn DVDs the fits. I ended up uninstalling the games. Secure ROM on IL2 sometimes gave me burner issues as well. I imagine the security measures employed scanned and found out I can make ISO.files and create discs from them.

I don't have STEAM, and am really not too hyped on 'becoming a member' just so I can play CoD off line. Any of our members have issues with burning DVD discs for video edits and STEAM?

[Revvin]

Why would I tell them to go 'f' themselves? if you read the terms they are not passing on data, that would be illegal in most countries for a start under data protection laws nevermind the country Valve is registered in.

I'm not angry about anything, it appears you are very angry but I'm just trying to provide a little balance to an argument where you make misleading statements calling it a virus etc.

Of course you can choose not to have Steam on your system, but you don't have any right to play IL-2: CoD.

[KG26_Alpha]

Ok lets keep the bad language out of these posts please

Thank you

[zauii]

@Vyper

It's your responsibility alone to check what you agree upon, doesn't matter if its a wall of text.

With that said, there is no hidden agenda, no conspiracy , no Swat team waiting to storm your house and reveal your very secret identity. Read the terms in-depth and you'll hopefully realize that Steam is completely harmless.

[meshuggahs]

VAC is a toothless old dog, that can't bite any of the cheaters. Look at CS:S or COD. Absolutely useless.

Can't say bout those two, but TF2 seemed pretty clean of cheaters when I still played it.
Anyhoo, some protection is better than none :)

[Kikuchiyo]

Lying? Done with you.

ly·ing 2 (lng)
v.
Present participle of lie2.
adj.
Disposed to or characterized by untruth: a lying witness. See Synonyms at dishonest.

e.g.Steam is a virus

At very least it is dishonest, but then that's the same thing as a lie.

[Stiboo]

I've never had a problem with STEAM

and i've picked up some fantastic bargains...

The complete CIV4 works for £3.74 over Xmas....!!!

[JG4_Helofly]

Steam? Never had any problem with it. Let's wait and see.

[Thee_oddball]

all new releases have there birthing issues...how much SolidShield and Steam play in this remains tobe seen.

S!

[kimosabi]

I wouldn't worry too much about Steam itself. Steam is a digital distributor/game community, nothing else. It has all the Steam benefits, like updating, patching and unlimited downloads etc. but it doesn't grip you by the balls like 777 does with Rise of Flight.

My Steam versioned IL-2 is just like IL-2 hardcopy and the only real difference is that I need to find my game folder in the Steam folder. That's it. Doesn't matter to me if CoD:IL-2 needs a one time activation through Steam/SolidShield or from the game itself.

[sfmadmax]

My Steam versioned IL-2 is just like IL-2 hardcopy and the only real difference is that I need to find my game folder in the Steam folder. That's it. Doesn't matter to me if CoD:IL-2 needs a one time activation through Steam/SolidShield or from the game itself.


Correct same thing for me, I use ultrapack for my IL2 copy (thru steam) no problems at all..

[Feuerfalke]

Steam is very nice. Never had a problem with it.

In fact I like the autopatching, the soft DRM and I also like cheat-protection.

Of course I also like the fact that the developers get's 70% of the money earned from Steam as opposed to 30-40% on conventional methods. IMHO Maddox Games deserves the money more than UBI, but your opinion may differ?

[ptisinge]

Like many posters here, I like Steam, have used for more than 5 years without any problem at all, which is quite a testimony to its reliability.

I note that a number of Steam opponents here base their opinion on the experience friends had, things they've heard or things that happened once 6 years ago. If CoD uses Steam for a number of significant features, then it's probably too late to stop this from happening, and the best for people who don't know Steam is probably to try and see guys; just try new things instead of bashing them... It's amazing the amount of negativity around here, it's the end of world at every single little piece of news... *sigh*

By the way, everybody is anxious about the fact that the game is lacking promotion: Steam is exactly that, a huge promotion tool. With its huge user base, it's a platform that has got a wider reach than any other. Hell, I know a number of non sim people that bought IL 1946 when it came to Steam - they had never heard about IL-2 before.

[JG53Frankyboy]

i just tried a few minutes ago to install Empire TotalWar from my DVDs.........just because so many have praised STEAM to heavan :)
i was not surprised actually to get the error message (like in the past) "not enough harddrive space" again :D

as long i dont have to install CoD throgh STEAM, i am ok :) i have ordered the CE DVDs.

[kimosabi]

Of course I also like the fact that the developers get's 70% of the money earned from Steam as opposed to 30-40% on conventional methods. IMHO Maddox Games deserves the money more than UBI, but your opinion may differ?

Especially when we see that the new Assassins Creed game is announced on Ubi's Steam catalogue 17th of March but not a word on Ubi's Steam about CoD:IL-2. I checked Steam just now and it has 3.000.000 gamers online as we speak. If Ubi could get their thumbs out of their behinds, they'd plaster CoD:IL-2 all over Steam. My guess is that Ubi's pi$$ed that Steam gives 70% back to the developer instead of publisher.

@ptisinge: I had never heard about IL-2 before I got Steam and look at me now. LOL

@Frankyboy: Have you tried installing Steam on a drive that actually has the space required? How many drives do you have and which one do you have Steam installed to? Default is C:. I have Steam installed on a separate drive.

[Novotny]

Frankyboy - what os are you using?

[mazex]

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

OK - good bye then!

[Novotny]

Vyper - you are Galen Thurber and I claim my £10!

God, it's been so long since this guy used to stalk Hyperlobby, I'd almost completely forgotten about him.

You must be the same guy, right? Exactly the same arguments and approach.

For those who may not remember him:

http://flightsimhq.org/hyperlobby/index.php

I had no idea you were back in a business. Time to invest in aluminium, those tinfoil rolls are going to start flying off the shelves again!

[mazex]

I've been using Steam since day one (2003?) and I only had a problem once with some obscure old game that I bought on a sale for a few euros. I emailed support and they fixed it the day after (some issue with too many buying it so the keys ran out ;)). Other than that I think it works great... A few months ago I got annoyed that I had once chosen the default install dir on C: and wanted to move it to my large D: drive. Moved the whole steam dir and was scanning for which settings to fix to get it running - but I tried starting it before doing anything... And it worked like a charm! All games just worked even though I had moved it to another drive "under the sheet"... Nice!

EDIT: My only issue with Steam is the 1 euro = 1 dollar issue that is really annoying...

[Codex]

I love reading all the STEAM hysteria, it's hilarious. STEAM is great in what it does and to me the DRM mentioned on that link is pretty reasonable.

Re: The collection of information ... get a grip. Do you have a bank account? ATM/EFTPos Card? Credit Card?. Have you signed up to an ISP? Do you have a mobile phone? Do you use a private or public library card?

Every time you make a purchase using a card or use a service where you were required to set up an account of some sort, you can bet your life that information about your purchase / usage of said product or service is being recorded. It's no different with STEAM. Get over it people, nothing is secret any more.

[Vrait]

Steam is awesome. I've never had any real issues with it.

[Blackdog_kt]

Another thing regarding Steam: if the decision to use the steam libraries wasn't made a few weeks ago, I don't think we will see a release on the 25th with working multiplayer. Integrating a framework this far down the development process will take some time.

This has been talked about in past communication with the developers and that's when the first suspicions about Steam use started circulating. I think that the actual quote (ok, slightly paraphrased as i'm going from memory here) was that "we are currently adding the multiplayer functionality/lobby tools at the request of the publisher".


At the end of the day, we're not trying to force you guys not to like steam. We just want to have a choice not to use it, to have a choice of rolling back a patch without copying the entire game folder and so on, without having someone else's preferences imposed on us. I don't hate Steam, i hate the lack of choice in the matter when it's clearly obvious that

a) it's not included as a copy protection method (it has Solidshield DRM) and
b) it just adds some nice side-benefits for online play, which however are definitely not essential items for the success of the title

IL2 had a developer sponsored multiplayer feature as well and nobody used it in the end. For CoD the only real advantage of using Steam is word of mouth advertising for the product (which is definitely a big deal and the only reason i'm willing to compromise), as for what actually has a direct impact on the players it's just some nice to have but definitely non-essential matchmaking features.

I didn't use friend lists in Hypperlobby, i never auto-update anything without first waiting to see if it messes up someone else's PC unless i know i can roll the patch back, i only ever joined 2-3 specific servers that catered to my preferences of online flying, have only flown with a small amount of people and it's not only for flight sims. I have starcraft2 and there's only 4 people in my in-game contact list, all of which are my real life friends. There are even more friends of mine that play the same game and yet they are not in my contact list. If i want to play a game with them i'll give them a call on the phone and add them, but i certainly haven't found some magical super-functionality in Blizzard's battlenet service just because it automated a couple of things. In fact, more often than not it's the negative stuff that stands out: forced update in the middle of a match and lag spikes, which is understandable when playing against someone who's 1500km away but not when playing against a buddy in the same room, on a PC that sits on the same router, just because Blizzard decided to ship the game without a LAN feature. The only reason i've bought SC2 is because it's mostly a multiplayer thing for me...since i will already be online to do what i want to do, i can compromise with some of their stupid design decisions. That's not the same for games that have a significant offline gameplay component however.

I don't go around the internet adding random people in contact lists and CoD won't change this, so Steam for me is basically a bunch of things i will never use that come at the potential of hassle if i want to have multiple installs or rollback a patch at some point, which i often do. It seems that each day software companies are pushing for more automation at the cost of being unable to actually tinker with your PC...some day in the future we'll end up with glorified consoles to play with that sport the customization potential of a washing machine :-P
That doesn't mean things should be difficult all the time, it doesn't mean they should be railroaded super-automatic all the time either though. If i want to mess with what's under the hood, there better be a way for it otherwise the community will make its own: that's what makes the PC a Personal Computer ;)


Long story short, the final tally ends up in the negatives for me, it could be just fine for someone else though.

This doesn't meant i'm bashing Steam, it just means that Steam is unsuitable for what i want to do with this game. It might be perfect for what someone else does though, so that's all i'm saying in the end: let both of us have a choice to enjoy this fine piece of entertainment software instead of mulling over how outside software can enhance or detract from our enjoyment.

Like I said, if you choose to use that service, good for you. I choose not to. Why should I be forced to?

This is what it's all about. Just like we get scalable, customizable difficulty and realism options we should also have customizable software setup options.

For example, i bet 90% of the people will be flying with simplified engine management the first few days while learning the ins and outs and the differences between CoD and IL2.
Well, how would you feel if complex engine management was enabled by default and the first few times you went online you got schooled by people who fly a bit of FSX or X-plane on the side, just because your engine constantly blows up and their doesn't because they are familiar with operating limits and checklists?
Wouldn't you be frustrated at your inability to choose not to use one of the game's features if it had an impact on your gameplay experience? Oh, i bet most of us would.

This is what it's all about and nothing more. I'm not going to boycott the sim, in fact i ordered a collector's edition from a relative who's studying abroad, but i can fully understand people who will pass it up due to the lack of options to satisfy their opinion on how a piece of software should function once it's paid for and installed on their PC.

This is the thing most publishers fail to realize: by trying to shepherd the customers through removing their choices they are forcing them to make another choice that will hurt them the most, the choice of not buying the game at all.

EDIT: Steam could work just fine for CoD and in the end i could be proven completely wrong. In fact, i very much hope i'm proven wrong. However, the best way to do this is to tailor Steam to the needs of CoD and not the other way around. Steam is not the spawn of the devil and it's much more user friendly than other platforms (eg, you can play offline and you can also download the game again if your disc is damaged, this is a big plus), so all we would need is three simple things to make it perfect: the ability to have multiple installations, the ability to patch manually and the ability to roll back a patch. The rest is fine.

[Novotny]

That battlenet sounds dreadful. If steam was anything like that I'd be very unhappy.

[kimosabi]

Blackdog, I think you need a time out man. Talk about painting the world black lol.

[machoo]

Steam is fine and convienient , get off your high horse. I have about 20 games from steam.

[fearlessfrog]

I love steam - works great. Good MP choice 1C.

Bad thread title is bad tho.

[Novotny]

The faq has not been further clarified as of yet, but it does seem to be indicating that Steam is required. Hopefully we'll know for certain soon.

[Kikuchiyo]

It becomes better and better. :shock: What does that mean ? Is Steam an option for additional services only, or are we not able to play the game w/o that spy & malware ? Please advise asap !!

It is not spy or malware that is factually incorrect.

[Novotny]

You are monitored in every aspect of your life by far more sinister and intrusive elements than Steam. Realistically, you've nothing to fear from it. For instance, the Steam hardware surveys are tremendous - why would you worry about that? You can of course opt out of them.

here's the last one: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

[MikkOwl]

I personally adore SteamWorks. Pre-ordered IL-2:CoD a week ago from a physical store. Hoping it will allow me to register the product code when it arrives so I can handle the logistics through there instead of installing from discs or UBI's own download service.

[ghodan]

I love steam.
I have 81 games on steam.
Yes it sucked when Half life 2 launched. But that is long ago.
Yes it sucked a bit when call of duty black ops launched, but what do you expect when 80.000 users try do download the game? (Yes the install cd with data on it did nothing. Mistake in the installer. So almost all of the 80.000 users downloaded the whole game tru steam instead of installing the game from the dvd and then downloading the decrypt stuff from steam.

By the way the installer problem was not a problem cause by steam.
Activision made the same mistake in the installer of call of duty modern warfare 2. So they used the exact same installer (code) for CoD Black ops.

[Tree_UK]

I love Steam, it helps me remove stamps for my collection.

[JG52Uther]

Blogs been updated,you will need steam for offline play as well...

[ghodan]

Blogs been updated,you will need steam for offline play as well...

Steam has a offline mode.
And who cares this day and age?
My internet connection is always ON. So whenever one of my pc's is turned on its online.
All people i know also have that.

[Feathered_IV]

After reading this, it looks like the boxed version is little more than a single coin tossed at Oleg and team:

http://www.mcvuk.com/features/808/OP...etail-vs-Steam

[GnigruH]

Why steam is bad? Someone make a list of its flaws, cos' atm it's like: it is bad cos' I know it is bad.
I see most ppl, who hate steam, have used it only once or haven't at all.

Sorry for pasting my response from another thread, but this forum is becoming so monothematic, that I probably could paste it into another 5 threads and it would fit perfectly.

[Erkki]

If we're back to the topic, IMHO Valve is easily the "lesser evil" of the two publishers. I do have the game preordered because I want the DVD though.

[Kikuchiyo]

Well thats for sure the most impressive pro argument !



My personal conclusion: You pay for nothing, have no rights on it and your datas can be used for whatever. You buy a limited, terminable, non exclusive license and right to use and Valve is responsible for nothing. In future you won't buy shoes, only the limited, terminable, non exclusive license and right to wear them.

WAKE UP !

P.S.: ....my last post on this. ;)

Bolds things to change context. Gripes about standard EUA verbage. You do realize basically every game you play says nearly exactly that Verbatim. I also suspect that your agreement to this forum says something similar about communications through it.

[JG52Uther]

At the end of the day,those who want CoD enough will buy it,regardless of what obstacles etc are put in the way.Some won't and thats a tragedy for Oleg with lost sales.
Unless we are hit with a serious bombshell in the next 2 weeks (like pay to play) then I will get it.

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

I have no idea what steam is or Valve .. Actually i don't want to to know...

I refuse to go throught the three hundrent lines of the Steam - Valve Agreement -

and that is, before i issue a huge invoice (i charge a lot per Hour as a Producer & an Audio

Engineer) to someone for my time & effort ...

Who is going to pay for the fee of my lawyer checking out the possible sneaky claws

in your agreement ?

I agree to nothing!

I'm the customer - i will give my money only in exchange to be left alone - undisturbed - with frequently updated material (possibly paid one) - with the unlimited right to whine as much as i like about the product and without any software that will go scanning my drives and stuff ... (if this is the case - & this will have to be proven to me)

I understand that everytime you install something there are a thousent claws that you never read but you agree on and you click the agree button like a zombie ....

that doesn't make it less unreasonable ...

you click the agree button and on the other end a white collar freak is throwing a party ... on your expense ...

Too confusing ... keap it simple in a nice box and sent it to my place also!

Eh? :)

[Kikuchiyo]

I have no idea what steam is or Valve .. Actually i don't want to to know...

I refuse to go throught the three hundrent lines of the Steam - Valve Agreement -

and that is, before i issue a huge invoice (i charge a lot per Hour as a Producer & an Audio

Engineer) to someone for my time & effort ...

Who is going to pay for the fee of my lawyer checking out the possible sneaky claws

in your agreement ?

I agree to nothing!

I'm the customer - i will give my money only in exchange to be left alone - undisturbed - with frequently updated material (possibly paid one) - with the unlimited right to whine as much as i like about the product and without any software that will go scanning my drives and stuff ... (if this is the case - & this will have to be proven to me)

I understand that everytime you install something there are a thousent claws that you never read but you agree on and you click the agree button like a zombie ....

that doesn't make it less unreasonable ...

you click the agree button and on the other end a white collar freak is throwing a party ... on your expense ...

Too confusing ... keap it simple in a nice box and sent it to my place also!

Eh? :)

So you have your lawyer read every EULA for every game you play? That is well wasteful of your money.

[RaM85]

[QUOTE=Avimimus;231549]Well, the big issues will appear if steam tries to mess with customised installs (patching etc.), has compatibility issues or hems in multiplayer modes.

Well, if a heavely modded Arma 2 runs smootly through steam I don't see why il2 shouldn't....

I also don' t see (talking in general) why some people are so concerned about steam, I find it very simple and "permissive". Once You've installed somehing you can play it just however you like. I reckon that in it's early days got some issues, but now it's a completely different thing.

[JG52Krupi]

At the end of the day,those who want CoD enough will buy it,regardless of what obstacles etc are put in the way.Some won't and thats a tragedy for Oleg with lost sales.
Unless we are hit with a serious bombshell in the next 2 weeks (like pay to play) then I will get it.

The tragedy is that so many ppl here cant see past the end of there nose (guess they wouldn't be good pilots anyway) steam will being 200 more players in for every 1 person here that refuses to buy it...

[Viejo64]

well thats for sure the most impressive pro argument !



My personal conclusion: You pay for nothing, have no rights on it and your datas can be used for whatever. You buy a limited, terminable, non exclusive license and right to use and valve is responsible for nothing. In future you won't buy shoes, only the limited, terminable, non exclusive license and right to wear them.

Wake up !

P.s.: ....my last post on this. ;)

+ 1 :( 100%

[Revvin]

Bolds things to change context. Gripes about standard EUA verbage. You do realize basically every game you play says nearly exactly that Verbatim. I also suspect that your agreement to this forum says something similar about communications through it.

I agree, its a standard EULA. When you buy a game you don't own the game. You own the medium its presented on but you do not get exclusive rights to do with that software whatever you want.

[jt_medina]

Here a steam user, the only issue I had was with battlefield 2 when I tried to install mods but apart from that never really had more issues with steam. In fact I love it. it's easy to use and the fact IL2 COD will use steam I believe it's a great idea. No more having to find the right patch to install it and I can find servers without having to install any other app.

I can only see advantages. About the DRM as far as I know it's even less intrusive than Starforce, it doesn't install any kind of driver. I think piracy kills sales and at least on PC if they want to sale they have to do something to avoid piracy.

[Blackdog_kt]

Here a steam user, the only issue I had was with battlefield 2 when I tried to install mods but apart from that never really had more issues with steam. In fact I love it. it's easy to use and the fact IL2 COD will use steam I believe it's a great idea. No more having to find the right patch to install it and I can find servers without having to install any other app.

I can only see advantages. About the DRM as far as I know it's even less intrusive than Starforce, it doesn't install any kind of driver. I think piracy kills sales and at least on PC if they want to sale they have to do something to avoid piracy.

Steam is not here for DRM purposes though. CoD will ship with Solidshield DRM and Steam will be there to handle the multiplayer, so i don't see why it's mandatory for people who only want to fly offline.
Sure, it has an offline mode but it's still an extra 4-5 clicks of the button to bypass features i'm not interested in, so i can't see why they won't give me a big "disable steam integration" button to press once and be done with it.


Blackdog, I think you need a time out man. Talk about painting the world black lol.

I'm not being a pessimist for the sake of it. I'm just trying to find out what happens in certain scenarios where problems could be caused. I'm generally a pessimistic optimist by nature, hope for the best but be prepared for the worst ;)

I'm still buying the sim, but few people who know and have used steam actually answered my questions on how it works. I have used it in the past (i was working in a web cafe for three years) and i wasn't too impressed (9 out of 10 games that gave us trouble were usually running through Steam), so what i'm interested to know is how much better or worse it is than it was 4-5 years ago.

I'm genuinely hoping it will work out well, i just don't see any real evidence to support it being worth the extra layer of complexity on top of a game that already has it's own DRM and the capability to handle multiplayer on its own. The integration with Steam was a very recent development at the request of Ubi (this has been confirmed by the developers, either on an interview or in a previous update thread), it's not like CoD was incapable of handling multiplayer on its own until now.

It seems that most people are divided in two camps: half are in panic mode and cancelling their pre-orders and the other half is just making fun of them without providing any clear answers as to possible troubleshooting scenarios. That's why we keep going around in circles.

Personally, i have a set of very clear questions that would help make up my mind but only a couple of Steam's advocates bother answering, the rest are just telling me "it's going to be fine, it's the future, deal with it" and so on. Well sorry, but that doesn't cut the mustard, in fact it just serves to arouse suspicion as to why people won't answer.

What i would really like to know is why i can't have multiple installations of the game on the same PC and the ability to roll back a patch. I also don't know and would like to find out how a DF server would be run under Steam. Is it rented directly from them or can we rent our own and just list it there? If it is rented from them, how much control do we have over the contents? In an action/shooter all we need is a flag for the game type (capture the flag/team deathmatch and so on) and the map to be used. Well, in a flight sim we can have dozens of different scenarios on the same map. Can a server under Steam be used in the way an IL2 DF server is used or will we end up with set-piece lobbies while waiting for Steam's functionality to catch up?

It's things like that i'm concerned about, not any itch as to how Steam does it's business. I don't care at all about Steam per se, what i care about is this: will i be able to use CoD the way i used IL2? That's all that matters to me. So, anyone care to enlighten me and answer some of the questions?

[Kikuchiyo]

1) The integration with Steam was a very recent development at the request of Ubi (this has been confirmed by the developers, either on an interview or in a previous update thread), it's not like CoD was incapable of handling multiplayer on its own until now.

a)What i would really like to know is why i can't have multiple installations of the game on the same PC and the ability to roll back a patch.

b)I also don't know and would like to find out how a DF server would be run under Steam. Is it rented directly from them or can we rent our own and just list it there?

c)If it is rented from them, how much control do we have over the contents? In an action/shooter all we need is a flag for the game type (capture the flag/team deathmatch and so on) and the map to be used. Well, in a flight sim we can have dozens of different scenarios on the same map.

d)Can a server under Steam be used in the way an IL2 DF server is used or will we end up with set-piece lobbies while waiting for Steam's functionality to catch up?


1) Pretty sure you have that backwards which is what the link at the top of this thread is all about.

a) You can have multiple copies of the game on a single PC, and if it is for the purpose of having rollback versions then you have roll back versions. If you want the Steam to start in offline mode there is an option for that when you are setting it up. If you want to go into offline mode after Steam is already in Online mode there is an option to do that with the "Steam" option at the top. If Steam is in offline mode it will not update your game. If you don't want Steam to update right now your only options are a)stay in offline mode, b)check the do not auto update option under the games properties and forever stay logged in, c) always keep a rollback version on a disc. I know it's not perfect, but it is what it is atm.

b) Servers do not have to be rented through Valve (Steam)

c) Valve does not try to control the content on servers they love mods and modding in general.

d) I have no idea what DF is or what "set piece lobbies" are.

[kimosabi]

Now you're making me paranoid, Blackdog. lol

Yeah, I've noticed that you'll have to be logged in to Steam even if you play offline. That crap didn't work with RoF, they patched it to offline play, so I really hope 1C thinks really hard about the offline play if they want people to stick to this niche game. I've read "one time online activation only" many times and figured that once the game is activated, I shouldn't worry about having to relate to a "mother server" continously. The ball grip 777 has over RoF and its community is why I stopped playing it.

I can't stand YuPlay, Windows Live and all that crap myself so I just don't play games with loads of logins etc. just to get my fix. I was hoping for a somewhat similar approach as I have with IL-2. Once the game is downloaded I can just jump into the Steamapps folder and fetch as many copies as I want and place the game on my desktop. CoD:IL-2 has a "one time online activation" in addition to Steam and I'll be very disappointed if I need to "confirm" my game every time I play it.

[Kikuchiyo]

Now you're making me paranoid, Blackdog. lol

Yeah, I've noticed that you'll have to be logged in to Steam even if you play offline. That crap didn't work with RoF, they patched it to offline play, so I really hope 1C thinks really hard about the offline play if they want people to stick to this niche game. I've read "one time online activation only" many times and figured that once the game is activated, I shouldn't worry about having to relate to a "mother server" continously. The ball grip 777 has over RoF and its community is why I stopped playing it.

I can't stand YuPlay, Windows Live and all that crap myself so I just don't play games with loads of logins etc. just to get my fix. I was hoping for a somewhat similar approach as I have with IL-2. Once the game is downloaded I can just jump into the Steamapps folder and fetch as many copies as I want and place the game on my desktop. CoD:IL-2 has a "one time online activation" in addition to Steam and I'll be very disappointed if I need to "confirm" my game every time I play it.

This is why those of us championing Steam and this decision with such vigor have become kind of rude at this point. A lot of the information coming from naysayers is completely false and without any merit. We keep answering the same questions and debasing the same accusations, but they keep popping back up.

[BigC208]

I also posted this in the goodbey thread. Very interesting. I didn't mind Steam when I played HalfLife 4 or 5 years ago. That was a game with a limited duration though. There were a couple of times I could not get into the game when the net was down. Il2 or CoD are games with a very long shelf life. If you only needed Steam for MP I don't have a problem. If you have to use steam everytime you play we have a problem. I sat out RoF for almost a year and a half because of this. I'll sit this one out on the sidelines untill there is a "no steam for offline" option. It's the principle folks. My game, my rules. I cannot always be connected when I'm on the road and even at home my connection has periods of shoddy performance. The idea of being bombarded with adds for other games everytime I want to play is putting me off aswell.

Cancelled my preorder with gogamer.com. I know, it's a bit impulsive but untill I hear that I don't need an internet connection to play offline I'm out. Another thing is I can get into Il2 in 30 seconds and play a QMB match. It always took me a few minutes just to get into steam if I could get in at all. Did not happen very often, mind you, but it was a turnoff when it did. Had to wait a few times for 20 or 30 minutes before it worked. Not going to deal with that headache again. RoF and DCS A10 are going to get my full attention untill this is resolved. This is a major bummer.

Where these people sleeping when all this constant internet on crap went on with RoF? Who knows how many sales they lost when this went on? I do hope they fix this for I want to support Oleg and play this game.

Mind you, this is not about Steam or no Steam for me. It's about having to be connected to the internet when I want to play offline.

[kimosabi]

Kikuchanoiunas por favor, you posted a reply to Blackdog just as I posted mine. You gotta be quicker man, I wasted several minutes on my post.

[Kikuchiyo]

I also posted this in the goodbey thread. Very interesting. I didn't mind Steam when I played HalfLife 4 or 5 years ago. That was a game with a limited duration though. There were a couple of times I could not get into the game when the net was down. Il2 or CoD are games with a very long shelf life. If you only needed Steam for MP I don't have a problem. If you have to use steam everytime you play we have a problem. I sat out RoF for almost a year and a half because of this. I'll sit this one out on the sidelines untill there is a "no steam for offline" option. It's the principle folks. My game, my rules. I cannot always be connected when I'm on the road and even at home my connection has periods of shoddy performance. The idea of being bombarded with adds for other games everytime I want to play is putting me off aswell.

Cancelled my preorder with gogamer.com. I know, it's a bit impulsive but untill I hear that I don't need an internet connection to play offline I'm out. Another thing is I can get into Il2 in 30 seconds and play a QMB match. It always took me a few minutes just to get into steam if I could get in at all. Did not happen very often, mind you, but it was a turnoff when it did. Had to wait a few times for 20 or 30 minutes before it worked. Not going to deal with that headache again. RoF and DCS A10 are going to get my full attention untill this is resolved. This is a major bummer. Waiting 5 years for a game, spending three grand on a top of the line game rig, finding out they just sold my game down the river....Priceless! If it wasn't for DCSA10 and RoF I would be big time pissed off. Well it was nice hanging out with you guys. Not going to follow this anymore, too painfull. Three weeks from now, i'll check back in to see what the deal is and take it from there.

Where these people sleeping when all this constant internet on crap went on with RoF? Who knows how many sales they lost when this went on? I do hope they fix this for I want to support Oleg and play this game but enough's enough.

Mind you, this is not about Steam or no Steam for me. It's about having to be connected to the internet when I want to play offline.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE ONLINE WITH STEAM TO PLAY SP! Read what we are saying. Quit jumping to conclusions and making stuff up.

[Flying Pencil]

Having to sign up to an online service for off line play is THE DUMBEST idea yet!

Makes Mickysoft an angle by comparison.

I think UBI is in big trouble to have to use another company to service its products.


Ironic that some of the most successful games offer a FREE base module, and you have to pay for upgrades.

Oh well,....


Edit:
This is not clear, but I assume it still needs subscribing to a service.
Do I have to be online to activate my game?

While the activation solution will initially attempt to activate your game online, you can elect to manually enter an activation code. You will need to enter the code that comes with your game into the activation wizard, you will then be given an activation code that you can enter manually. So, although you do not necessarily need to have your computer hooked up to the internet, you will need to go online to obtain a code before playing.

[BigC208]

The way I'm reading it is that I have to be online to get the game started. After that's done I can get offline. Same problem. Congrats with your 100th post!

Untill I read it different I'm out. No need for shouting, I'm not telling you what to do right? I'm not making stuff up. If you read my other posts you can see that
I want this game badly. Just not badly enough if it requires me to be online to start an offline game session. I would love to stand corrected so I can buy the
game I wanted for 5 years. Conclussions are being made on what I read here on the forum. You're saying I'm coming to the wrong conclussion. Could you please
point me in the direction where you conclude that I don't have to be online for sigle player? Thanks.

[kimosabi]

It's all Kikuchiyo's fault. He made them do it.

[Flying Pencil]

The tragedy is that so many ppl here cant see past the end of there nose (guess they wouldn't be good pilots anyway) steam will being 200 more players in for every 1 person here that refuses to buy it...

Their are better ways to attract people then forcing them to subscribe to a service they might not otherwise use.

[Kikuchiyo]

The way I'm reading it is that I have to be online to get the game started. After that's done I can get offline. Same problem. Congrats with your 100th post!

Untill I read it different I'm out. No need for shouting, I'm not telling you what to do right?

What are you reading that way? You have to log in once after you purchase the game and activate it. After that you don't have to be online to play it SP.

[TheGrunch]

Hey, it could be worse. When I used to play Dawn of War 2 you had to login to Steam AND Windows Live at the same time. Which is fine except that the Windows Live servers are dreadful, and you couldn't play the single-player campaign unless you could login, only skirmishes. Killed that game for me.

[BigC208]

I based my opinion on JG52Uther saying you needed to be online for offline play. Maybe no the most solid source. I'll do a little more research. Mind is made up though. No offline single player, no go. My loss for now for I want this game, nodbody's win.

[TheGrunch]

You only have to register your account, login whilst online once to activate your game, and then start Offline Mode for as long as you want. Forever, potentially.

[kimosabi]

Dawg don't hate the playah, hate the game yo.

[Kikuchiyo]

Having to sign up to an online service for off line play is THE DUMBEST idea yet!

Makes Mickysoft an angle by comparison.

Edit:
This is not clear, but I assume it still needs subscribing to a service.

You have to activate Windows online and sign a EULA. So no different from Steam in that regard.

You do not have to pay any kind of service fee for using Steam. It is free to use.

[JG52Uther]

I based my opinion on JG52Uther saying you needed to be online for offline play. Maybe no the most solid source. I'll do a little more research. Mind is made up though. No offline single player, no go. My loss for now for I want this game, nodbody's win.
Thanks! ;)

That quote is not mine,its from an admin at the ubi CoD blog.And he /she said you need a steam account to play.That could mean anything.

[Thee_oddball]

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE ONLINE WITH STEAM TO PLAY SP! Read what we are saying. Quit jumping to conclusions and making stuff up.

18 Responses to IL2: Cliffs of Dovers DRM solution

1.
Helmut says:
7 March 2011 at 11:06

Will Steam be required for strictly offline use too?
Reply
*
admin says:
8 March 2011 at 09:01

Yes.


http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1162

[Kikuchiyo]

Let's go to the source rather than some random dude on an unrelated forum. (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555)

Surely we can agree that Ubisoft can in no way speak in any official capacity about steam, and their admins clearly don't know what they are talking about.

[TheGrunch]

What that post meant is that you will need a Steam account to activate your game to play offline, oddball, not that you will be required to be online all the time.

[BigC208]

Pointing @JG52Uter, It was him! He did it! Bloody infidell! Burn him, stone him but whatever you do, don't quote him!
@Kikuchiyo, Ill follow that link and see what's said at the source.

[Thee_oddball]

What that post meant is that you will need a Steam account to activate your game to play offline, oddball, not that you will be required to be online all the time.

from what I read Solidshield will do the activation and Steam will provide "services"

Important:

The Steam client application's files must be updated to allow for the use of Offline Mode. If your game's status is "100% - Ready" but you receive the message "This game cannot be started in Offline Mode" when attempting to play offline, the Steam client application's files need to be updated.

Using Offline Mode on a PC.

Please follow the instructions below to configure Offline Mode on your PC:

1. Start Steam online - make sure the Remember my password box on the login window is checked
2. Verify that all game files are completely updated - you can see the update status for a game under the Library section (when the game shows as 100% - Ready it is ready to be played in Offline Mode)
3. Launch the game you would like to play offline to verify that there are no further updates to download - shut down the game and return to Steam once you have confirmed that the game can be played
4. Go to Steam > Settings to ensure the Don't save account credentials on this computer option is not selected
5. From the main Steam window, go to the Steam menu and select Go Offline
6. Click Restart in Offline Mode to restart Steam in Offline Mode


the above seems like a bit much just to play SP...with that being said i have a steam account (not used in a couple years) and will buuuuuuuy the game...box addition if i can .
I like many people like to keep there windows install lean and clean...mine is so striped down it looks like win98:( and i only have 2 things installed BC2 and IL2 (LIKE A 427 IN A PINTO :)) , I think the only thing that needs changing is there not be ANY steam association with offline play besides that I think it should work out.

[TheGrunch]

The only thing I can say about this whole debate is that seriously, everything in life has its pros and cons, and some of you guys need to stop getting your knickers in a twist about the most insignificant cons. Just chill out. You can play in offline mode if you want, you can turn off auto-updating (and honestly doing those things eliminates all of my *personal* issues with Steam), and if you choose to actually use it as it is intended it is an excellent server browser and a very good way to keep track of squadmates and other people you enjoyed playing with online.

I don't see how activating the offline mode is a lot of hassle either, you just have to login once, make sure the game is working and then click Go Offline. They make it sound more difficult in the article by including every single insignificant step so as to make the instructions idiot-proof.
As for the activation thing, it's true that Solidshield is the actual form of DRM chosen, but due to the way Steam works you'll still have to login to install the game, the Solidshield part is kind of implied by the actual installation process.

[jameson]

You guys really don't get it do you? I don't want this steam crap on my machine, end of story.

[Defender]

You guys really don't get it do you? I don't want this steam crap on my machine, end of story.

That's fine mate, you've made your case. But hanging around doesn't seem to make much sense now does it? You've decided therefore your contributions to this forum seems quite limited and a bit conflicted.

Perhaps after launch and consumer reports start flowing in about what a great sim it is, the urge to fly the best WWII combat sim available will trump your desire to not have this "steam crap" on your machine.

[mazex]

You guys really don't get it do you? I don't want this steam crap on my machine, end of story.

Well - bye bye then!

http://rochj.blogg.se/images/2009/ireland-wave-goodbye_66701161.jpg

[JG52Krupi]

Their are better ways to attract people then forcing them to subscribe to a service they might not otherwise use.

Okay name one other way that...

1) Nets you more money for your product... its a fact that offering a game on steam nets the developers more money than using a retailer, who end up getting a large percentage (60-70) of the retail sales.

2) Already has an established user base (3million playing atm).

3) Virtually free advertising?

These are just a few from 1C's point of view

Benefits for a consumer...

1) No disc to scratch

2) Friends list

3) Cheap Deals (recently got King Arthur RTS for £4 with all dlc, refreshing game like a fantasy total war game :D now its listed for £30)

4) Can easily mod games, (I have yet to run into a problem).

5) Automatic updates (if you dont like this due to bad connection you can turn it off)

I know im a fan and i don't care what you say there are clear benefits... steam is the second program installed on my pc after chrome

[Blackdog_kt]

Okay name one other way that...

1) Nets you more money for your product... its a fact that offering a game on steam nets the developers more money than using a retailer, who end up getting a large percentage (60-70) of the retail sales.

2) Already has an established user base (3million playing atm).

3) Virtually free advertising?

These are just a few from 1C's point of view

Benefits for a consumer...

1) No disc to scratch

2) Friends list

3) Cheap Deals (recently got King Arthur RTS for £4 with all dlc, refreshing game like a fantasy total war game :D now its listed for £30)

4) Can easily mod games, (I have yet to run into a problem).

5) Automatic updates (if you dont like this due to bad connection you can turn it off)

I know im a fan and i don't care what you say there are clear benefits... steam is the second program installed on my pc after chrome

Well, it's good for you but not for everyone, nothing hard to understand about this.
Wonderwoman view is also good for some people, but you don't see the game shipping with it enabled by default for everyone :cool:
For instance, i have absolutely no use for features 2,3 and 5 on your list of consumer benefits.

I don't mind having access to them but i will definitely not use them much, i certainly don't NEED them and neither does the sim: it already has another DRM layer and will be able to use 3rd party server browsing tools (according to the developers, they said so a few updates back). Well, anything that's not needed is optional, so where's the option?


It's not here for DRM reasons because it already has Solidshield.

It's not here for the multiplayer functionality because Cod can already do that in a way similar to IL2 (the developers' words, not mine).

It's supposed to be here for mass market appeal and ease of advertising (the only substantial reason in the long term) but guess what, the game isn't even sold on Steam. :confused:

So, what is it really needed for? And just to clarify, "need" does not mean "i like to have a certain feature", it means "the game absolutely won't work without a certain feature". In this way, what most of us think we need are mere personal preferences. The game doesn't need to default to one set of them, it needs to have options for as much of them as possible to ensure the most satisfied customers.


Honestly, i have nothing against Steam i just want to have a choice of not using it, just as i want you guys who like it to have the choice of using it.

The current situation is bad for everyone. People who don't care for Steam are being forced to use it, the ones who like Steam are being forced to use a secondary DRM layer on top of that. God forbid something breaks in between and you start getting ping-ponged between Solidshield, Steam and Ubi forums.

It seems the only reason for Steam integration is to get mass market appeal and that's fine if the hordes of action game players are willing to finance our following expansions by picking up CoD and flying around for a few weeks in low realism settings, no problem whatsoever. However, the game is not even sold on Steam so again, it's an action without a clear motive.

Best thing to do? Have a Steam version for those who like it sold directly on Steam with no additional DRM.

The boxed editions would have Solidshield DRM and no Steam at all (ideally, they could ask the user which one to use upon install, Steam or Solidshield, but i doubt many Steam users are into boxed copies) as would a non-steam digital download version that would be distributed through the other online retailers. Everybody would be happy with this.

Compare with what we are actually getting: everyone who likes Steam will be forced to have another layer of DRM on top of Steam, everyone who doesn't want Steam will also have two layers of DRM and no choice whatsoever in the matter.

It's like they took two groups of people with diverging tastes and asked them what they'd like, only in order to implement something that will partially piss off everyone in equal measure :-P

I'm still getting a collector's edition but if the multiple layers of external applications cause me problems for any considerable length of time, it's going straight on second hand sale along with the Steam account it's activated on, regardless of EULA terms. So far the only real benefit of a Steam account for me is that i have no other games registered on it, so if i need to resell the game i can do so just fine. Maybe i should order 3-4 extra collector's editions and put them up on ebay once they become really hard to find :-P

[WTE_Galway]

Well - bye bye then!

http://rochj.blogg.se/images/2009/ireland-wave-goodbye_66701161.jpg

The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam users seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam users overly enticing :P

[Thee_oddball]

I'm still getting a collector's edition but if the multiple layers of external applications cause me problems for any considerable length of time, it's going straight on second hand sale along with the Steam account it's activated on, regardless of EULA terms. So far the only real benefit of a Steam account for me is that i have no other games registered on it, so if i need to resell the game i can do so just fine. Maybe i should order 3-4 extra collector's editions and put them up on ebay once they become really hard to find :-P

the resell aspect is something i thought about today...if i buy a box set i can give/sell it to someone...but on Steam i cannot :( unless i make a separate account for every game...which would be a real PITA.

I will use steam for Cod if i have to but will not use steam for any other games.
If i buy a book I should be able to sell it or give it away when i am done...while i do not own the intellectual rights to the book i do own the copy.
With steam those options are removed :( while this may seem tobe a minor irritant it was that same option (someone gave me there copy of RB3D) that got me into flight sims and consequently got me into online gaming and MOH,COD2,BF2,RO,BC2 and ALL the il2 series.

[jimbop]

I love the thread tags! I'm waiting for the steam version before I order - much prefer the DL versions over boxed. Most people don't understand that even if you buy a physical copy of a piece of software you are usually just buying rights to run it, not buying the software itself.

Anyway, that's my understanding and even if I'm wrong there are far more important things for me to worry about!

[Luftrofl]

The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam haters seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam haters overly enticing :P

See how that works. The benefits have been shown over and over but some literally can't seem to "think outside the [game]box". I don't understand people afraid of using Steam for risk of somehow losing access to one copy of the game, then claiming to be cancelling pre-orders for a dozen boxes of it. I would bet money Steam will outlast Ubisoft. The developers have decided to use it, either embrace it or punish yourself by missing out on the game you've all been foaming at the mouth for. Not a hard decision.

Funny part is that most of the haters will actually like steam once they understand it.

Funniest part will be all the people who buy the game then can't run it because it isn't Il2 1946 and blame their PC's shortcomings on Steam.

[imaca]

Steam has a offline mode.
And who cares this day and age?
My internet connection is always ON. So whenever one of my pc's is turned on its online.
All people i know also have that.
..and many of them will be infected with viruses, root kits etc and/or be running system hogging virus scanners.
My windows install is not normally online. I use Linux. Windows is only for gaming.
I don't mind a one off online activation. Less keen about having to be online to get updates (normally I would download in linux)
With regard to Solidshield I'm less than thrilled to read this:
quote:"NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent
copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW and virtual drives."

uh-oh

and if this is the case how can this:
"Once the activation process has been completed, the activation solution does not install any software on your computer" be true?

[Vyper]

See how that works. The benefits have been shown over and over but some literally can't seem to "think outside the [game]box". I don't understand people afraid of using Steam for risk of somehow losing access to one copy of the game, then claiming to be cancelling pre-orders for a dozen boxes of it. I would bet money Steam will outlast Ubisoft. The developers have decided to use it, either embrace it or punish yourself by missing out on the game you've all been foaming at the mouth for. Not a hard decision.

Funny part is that most of the haters will actually like steam once they understand it.

Funniest part will be all the people who buy the game then can't run it because it isn't Il2 1946 and blame their PC's shortcomings on Steam.

So why are you for forcing people to use it? Would you be for being forced to use AOL? All anyone posting so far is concerned about is the lack of getting a choice in the matter, when clearly steam isn't needed to perform multiplayer functionality yet the rumblings are saying it will be required to do so. (And begs to question how dedicated servers will work in that situation).

The funny part, as you put it...is that some of us have had this off and on and off again relationship with steam/valve for over 12 years. There isn't anything to understand, so your point is moot.

Limiting choices and creating control bases in favor of companies like valve are not good for the gaming community as a whole. It is not good for any business market.

[leggit]

if using steam means Oleg and team have more cash for future development then so be it. To all the i'm not buying CoD because...as someone has said before bye bye.... you whinny little kids.

[Space Communist]

Steam is probably the most important thing keeping the PC gaming industry alive today. It boggles my mind every time a "niche" game comes to mainstream how many PC gamers in this day and age are not using it, and for that matter do not understand how it works.

Fortunately I know that the RRAARRRGH STEAM IS A VIRUS people are simply a small but vocal minority. Even if they really do huddle under tinfoil helmets and boycott the game (most of them end up buying it anyway despite the whining,) the (already mentioned in this thread several times) much higher share of the money going to the devs far outweighs this.

[TheGrunch]

So why are you for forcing people to use it?
Because the game needs a damn server browser on launch! It's all very well saying that Steam isn't NEEDED to use multiplayer functionality but that relies on third-party software being developed or updated to do so. Would you prefer third-party software to be shipped on the disc? Can you imagine how the less computer-savvy would react to a game with no default server browser? They just wouldn't play multiplayer, or they'd be up in arms about the game being missing something so fundamental. Steam fills that gap for a developer with much less effort, and that's without considering all the other benefits it adds for multiplayer.

If you were making a game and you had no experience of programming server browser software, and someone offered you a deal to use a service whereby you could a) offer your consumers a professional quality server browser with all the features expected nowadays such as friends lists etc., b) get upwards of 60% of the value of sales through the service c) offer automatic updates to your consumers, would you say "OH NO i LOVE spending all my time on unnecessarily duplicating features such as this instead of improving my game", or would you say..."sounds like a pretty sweet deal for everyone"?

[Luftrofl]

So why are you for forcing people to use it?

Do you anti-Steam people read at all? There have been so many positive reasons listed in these Steam threads, just go read..... As for the 100% definitive reason, you'll have to wait for Oleg to say why they wanted to use it.

To clarify, I couldn't care less if you use it or not. Just pointing out that most of the complaining about it done here is baseless. You have to wait for official reason why they decided to force it's use.

[Specht]

Thank you VERY MUCH for using Steam, this makes my life much easier in many ways.

One: I don't have to wait until the game gets released in my country.

Two: I pay a much better price on Steam than buying boxes in my country.

Three: Steam is a fantastic platform.

[JG52Uther]

Thank you VERY MUCH for using Steam, this makes my life much easier in many ways.

One: I don't have to wait until the game gets released in my country.

Two: I pay a much better price on Steam than buying boxes in my country.

Three: Steam is a fantastic platform.

But the game is not for sale on Steam apparently...

[Specht]

But the game is not for sale on Steam apparently...

Oh bugger...

[Defender]

But the game is not for sale on Steam apparently...

It probably will be available on Steam, it will be some time after release though once Ubi can cash in on it's initial investment.

[zauii]

On the whole server browser thingy, we've no idea yet if Oleg is utilizing his own or not, Ubi message is way too blurry.
The game will have an in-game server browser that's pretty much a given, if it will utilize steam technology we'll see.

Steam works just fine, its a great platform imo.

[Blackdog_kt]

I love the thread tags! I'm waiting for the steam version before I order - much prefer the DL versions over boxed. Most people don't understand that even if you buy a physical copy of a piece of software you are usually just buying rights to run it, not buying the software itself.

Anyway, that's my understanding and even if I'm wrong there are far more important things for me to worry about!

That's against EU consumer laws so it doesn't apply to me. I don't buy the rights to distribute or modify the software in a large scale but i do buy that single copy of it and not just a license.

If i'm just buying the license to use it and i somehow lose my discs, i should then be able to request and they should send me new discs since i still have the license, right? And Ubi would send me new discs out of the kindness of their hearts? Think about it for a second, there's a reason most EULAs won't fly in any consumer law court, especially since the "contract" is presented to you after you buy the product, open the box (which makes it non-refundable) and start the installer. If it was printed on the back of the game box it would probably carry more weight, but i guess if people could see what they often sign up for they would also buy less games ;)


The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam users seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam users overly enticing :P

I wouldn't go that far, but some of them are in fact pushing it to the point of reminding me the "RoF can do no wrong" crowd of 2 years ago.
Incidentally, that was one of the main reasons i didn't pick that one up...limited amount of fans and servers when it was launched meant a high probability of crossing paths with a handful of very annoying people they had in that community :-P


So why are you for forcing people to use it? Would you be for being forced to use AOL? All anyone posting so far is concerned about is the lack of getting a choice in the matter, when clearly steam isn't needed to perform multiplayer functionality yet the rumblings are saying it will be required to do so. (And begs to question how dedicated servers will work in that situation).

The funny part, as you put it...is that some of us have had this off and on and off again relationship with steam/valve for over 12 years. There isn't anything to understand, so your point is moot.

Limiting choices and creating control bases in favor of companies like valve are not good for the gaming community as a whole. It is not good for any business market.

Exactly. Those of you who want to go with Steam, by all means do so. Just don't force your opinion on the rest.

I mean, we're not all bashing Steam and it would be a good thing for advertising and mass market appeal for CoD, i'll give you that. So is scalable difficulty but the game doesn't default to any common denominator, it gives all of you options to do what you want with your gameplay sessions. Why should installation be any different?

My point is i don't hate Steam, but what the hell is all this zealotry about? All this "take it or leave it" attitude is sure not making steam any friends, neither does the "deal with it" commentary expressed by a few posters.

Sure, one might tolerate it to play a game he's been expecting for years but doesn't have to like it and if one is forced to use it, then you're going to keep hearing about it until he's given an option to disable it. How about you deal with that? :-P

[TheGrunch]

My point is i don't hate Steam, but what the hell is all this zealotry about? All this "take it or leave it" attitude is sure not making steam any friends, neither does the "deal with it" commentary expressed by a few posters.
The opinions on both sides are just as extreme, though, yours not least. ;) I don't even have Steam installed on my machine at the moment, and haven't done for the last couple of years probably, but it's just baffling to many of us who have encountered it that anyone could boycott the only game that's really likely to keep the WWII sim market alive because of the same sort of logic that would have them shivering in the cold because they were frightened of paying a power company who could potentially monitor their usage. I don't MIND whether the game uses Steam or not, it's just this sort of discussion that will cause a fuss just for the sake of causing a fuss and potentially blight the game's launch with negative rumours for no reason at all. If you don't want to buy the game because it uses Steam, at least don't go around posting disinformation and vague negative rumours about the service it provides (this last is not aimed at you Blackdog).

[Luftrofl]

The opinions on both sides are just as extreme, though, yours not least. ;) I don't even have Steam installed on my machine at the moment, and haven't done for the last couple of years probably, but it's just baffling to many of us who have encountered it that anyone could boycott the only game that's really likely to keep the WWII sim market alive because of the same sort of logic that would have them shivering in the cold because they were frightened of paying a power company who could potentially monitor their usage. I don't MIND whether the game uses Steam or not, it's just this sort of discussion that will cause a fuss just for the sake of causing a fuss and potentially blight the game's launch with negative rumours for no reason at all. If you don't want to buy the game because it uses Steam, at least don't go around posting disinformation and vague negative rumours about the service it provides (this last is not aimed at you Blackdog).

That is exactly it. Most of the opposition I've seen has been based on "facts" that just aren't true. I assume Oleg has some reason for doing this and instead of posting random make believe reasons Steam is bad, I'll wait to see what his reason is. Only after hearing from him can it be truly decided if this is a good decision or not.

[addman]

If the game case isn't recyclable I ain't buying it.

[Biggs]

If the game case isn't recyclable I ain't buying it.

:lol:

[yellonet]

I like Steam, but I won't buy CoD if it's only on Steam.

I've been a long time fan of the IL-2 series and consider CoD to be one of the really great new games of the year.

The thing is I have enough Steam games already, and I like choices, being forced to use Steam to play, no thanks.

Sure, Steam works great most of the time and for most people, so why don't I want all my games on steam?
Well, I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak.
What happens if Steam were to stop working?
What if Valve went belly up?
What if they're bought by someone that changes Steam completely?
Furthermore, I like having the disc, it just feels more secure and when you have the game like that you're not depending on some third party to use the game.

The main issue for me personally though is that it's not a choice to buy the Steam version when it perfectly well could have been.

Good luck to Oleg and team.

[TheGrunch]

This perspective is one I agree with. I want to be playing this game in 10 years' time, and I don't ideally want to have to rely on Valve's goodwill to do that. Thankfully though pirates have managed to separate games from Steam before so I can't imagine it would cost Maddox Games a whole heap of effort to do so in a later patch if Steam were to go tits up.

[meshuggahs]

/rant

I think I'm not going to buy the game at all! I mean what if the world seizes to exist on that particular day!

I have a feeling that steam as the major digital distribution platform that actually to some degree saved PC gaming is not going down in a single night just for the sake of it. It's bad buisness to everybody!

Besides it's not as if the game developers could not patch a steam release to actually run without steam if something magical like a unicorn running over Gabe Newell killing him and leaving all his shares to his 5 yr old son who then got tricked out of them by evil nazi-zombies from space whose plan on world domination included on runing down all digitally bought/licensed gaming software from steam for god knows what reason.

And third party this third party that. You're allready depending on a bunch o third parties to get your damn pc even runing that precious copy of windows that eventually with the right hardware and drivers lets you play IL-2:CoD. Not even taking into account your electric and internet providers.

The only real valid point with the steam haters is that it's an aditional process running you might not want there. Well I have a feeling your computer is runing a dozen processes that youre not using or ever will. Just imagine it as one among those that actually is usefull for something!

/rant off

I realy shouldn't visit to this topic :rolleyes:

[TheGrunch]

Well exactly. If pirates can do it in a couple of weeks, Oleg and team could do it in a couple of days...plus testing. Two weeks, be sure.

[AWL_Spinner]

I see the poll is currently running 73% in favour (have it, like it/don't have it, will install for CoD).

I love Steam. Completely different kettle of fish to any CD protection nonsense I've had to deal with over the years.

If it's available as a Steam download in it's entirety I'll acquire that way (if I can't get hold of a collectors box in Canada).

Cheers, Spinner

[Space Communist]

As much as I dearly hope both companies are still around, even as the Earth is consumed by the sun during it's dying expansion into a red giant, the chances of Maddox Games/1C outlasting Valve are pretty much non-existent.

[Thee_oddball]

As much as I dearly hope both companies are still around, even as the Earth is consumed by the sun during it's dying expansion into a red giant, the chances of Maddox Games/1C outlasting Valve are pretty much non-existent.

now now...dont count oleg out...in fact i understand he is working with neurologistds in sweden and Gigabyte to come up with a corticalsynapic interface so we no longer need monitors...talk about full switch:shock::shock:...of course if windows is still the OS i wont be using it...being frozen in place because of BSOD and having a friend find you after days of marinating in your own....well you get the picture :)

[Ibis]

I've used Steam, it's ok but I simply don't want to use it.
I don't have to have a reason or give a reason. I simply want the game on a disc, play it on Hyperlobby, have a backup on my computer, use an IP address, add what Patches my squad wants to use
and in general use my paid for property as I see fit.
I have no reason to help Steam gather whatever, I don't care if Steam exists or not
gadnab it, I simply want to enjoy it and use it as I use 4.09+UP2.01+modded maps of my choice.
I have paid for and own every piece of IL2 that Oleg has produced and would have been happy to pay twice the price.
Hell our computers that we continually upgrade have cost $thousands,
Bugga Steam!
Cheers,
Ibis.

[Kikuchiyo]

I've used Steam, it's ok but I simply don't want to use it.
I don't have to have a reason or give a reason. I simply want the game on a disc, play it on Hyperlobby, have a backup on my computer, use an IP address, add what Patches my squad wants to use
and in general use my paid for property as I see fit.
I have no reason to help Steam gather whatever, I don't care if Steam exists or not
gadnab it, I simply want to enjoy it and use it as I use 4.09+UP2.01+modded maps of my choice.
I have paid for and own every piece of IL2 that Oleg has produced and would have been happy to pay twice the price.
Hell our computers that we continually upgrade have cost $thousands,
Bugga Steam!
Cheers,
Ibis.

Nope you don't have to have a reason. I think the only objection the Steam "defenders" had was the misinformation that many were using to excuse themselves from it's use.
We all have to ask ourselves what principles we stand on, and what our limit of exception is, and I will fault no one for that, but when someone makes up "facts" to back their decision I take exception. So long Ibis I am sure you will be missed in CoD.

S!

[mazex]

The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam users seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam users overly enticing :P

Not at all like the anti-steam (anti-everything) bunch then? Personally I'm fed up with all negativism here and all this whinig about everything does not lead anywhere. They have chosen to use Steam for some parts and certainly will not change due to the fact that 20 people whine here and in some other forums. It just make them stop reading the constructive criticism that is stuck in between all the crap. Trust me as a development manager myself - after a certain level of negativism in open channels you stop reading and focus on other channels... It's very obvious that this is what has happened here, but people just don't get it. Why do you think Oleg and Ilya are not here any more?

[PE_Tigar]

The main thing I have picked up from these threads is that steam users seem to be childish arrogant smug and generally a pain in the butt to try and discuss things with.

Which doesn't make playing online in a community full of steam users overly enticing :P

...and the Steam haters are usually effin dinosaurs :-P- fess up, how old are you grandpa :)?

[JG52Krupi]

Not at all like the anti-steam (anti-everything) bunch then? Personally I'm fed up with all negativism here and all this whinig about everything does not lead anywhere. They have chosen to use Steam for some parts and certainly will not change due to the fact that 20 people whine here and in some other forums. It just make them stop reading the constructive criticism that is stuck in between all the crap. Trust me as a development manager myself - after a certain level of negativism in open channels you stop reading and focus on other channels...

+1 the levelling of moaning here is beyond appailing, how dare ppl complain who else would even bother to make a highly detailed ww2 aircraft simulator when you can spit out games like cod and other fps year after year with no upgrades, minimal work and get paid 1000 times more than 1c will for il2 cod and that's after 6 years of development so everyone moaning here STFU and be glad your even getting a product like this and one that is not watered down for consoles

[Mephisto]

I see suporters of steam here, all of tham say "i have 10-80 games", it keeps pc gaming alive, and so on.
Well, i must say that il2, bf 1942 and bf2 were the games worth playing, and pc gaming has no quality since. They are on my home comp and on my qosmio laptop.
To see Cliffs of Dover close to publishing, brings warm feelings to my hearth.
I have large estate out of city, and ejoy summer, sometimes winter months there. And i dont have internet there. Why? Because lan gaming has some special feeling. To bring frends in live contact is above any steam or battlenet or any other anti social software.
So, steam? No way. Not at home, not on my estate.
I do fine without auto updates, i like my comps without startup software, comercials, virus like software that keeps haunting you with various offers.
Lets keep things cousy and warm.
Steam is for other type of games, not this sweetie we all have been waiting for. Or give us option at least.

[JG52Krupi]

Steam is for other type of games, not this sweetie we all have been waiting for. Or give us option at least.

Not gonna happen and it's the fault of hackers that these drm software are in use, it's the typical case of a few ruining it for everyone else.

I think all you need to do is activate the game once install steam then turn on play offline and you can have your LAN game. Inconvenient yes, a show stopper? not unless you are too stubborn to accept the inevitable.

[mazex]

I see suporters of steam here, all of tham say "i have 10-80 games", it keeps pc gaming alive, and so on.
Well, i must say that il2, bf 1942 and bf2 were the games worth playing, and pc gaming has no quality since. They are on my home comp and on my qosmio laptop.
To see Cliffs of Dover close to publishing, brings warm feelings to my hearth.
I have large estate out of city, and ejoy summer, sometimes winter months there. And i dont have internet there. Why? Because lan gaming has some special feeling. To bring frends in live contact is above any steam or battlenet or any other anti social software.
So, steam? No way. Not at home, not on my estate.
I do fine without auto updates, i like my comps without startup software, comercials, virus like software that keeps haunting you with various offers.
Lets keep things cousy and warm.
Steam is for other type of games, not this sweetie we all have been waiting for. Or give us option at least.

But there IS no problem playing Steam games without internet... I played both Hearts of Iron II and Red Orchestra that I have bought through Steam with my internet cable pulled to test. No problem at all (RO is a bit useless without Internet but it works fine). A dialog just pops up asking if you want to go to offline mode and all games work just fine. Tried CoD Modern Warfare 2 as well and it worked great too - even though it is heavily Steam integrated...

[Kikuchiyo]

I
I do fine without auto updates, i like my comps without startup software, comercials, virus like software that keeps haunting you with various offers.
Lets keep things cousy and warm.
Steam is for other type of games, not this sweetie we all have been waiting for. Or give us option at least.

How is Steam "virus like?" It is a piece of software you choose to put on your PC that runs or doesn't run at your whim.

What type of games is Steam for?

As I've said before I don't really care if someone doesn't want to use Steam, and I can understand and respect that decision, but making up false claims is unacceptable. There are things I don't like, and so I don't use them or things that associate themselves with them, but I will not create facts or make bold statements that are unbacked to justify my reasoning. It is perfectly fair for someone to not want Steam, but be honest about the service itself.

[tintifaxl]

Not gonna happen and it's the fault of hackers that these drm software are in use, it's the typical case of a few ruining it for everyone else....

All Steam games where cracked on day of release. You can get illegal copies of every game that's out there, so the only thing drm successfully supresses is the market for used games.

[Codex]

This whole thread looks like this:

http://www.mediahunter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/glass-half-full1.jpg

What do you see?

[=XIII=Shea]

IMHO ubisoft and 1c should have done it like dcs a-10,you put in your serial for install and then you can play offline no probs,but when in multiplayer you have to log into your account which has your serial stored on their website,and that with people who pirated the game cannot access multiplayer.

[Codex]

IMHO ubisoft and 1c should have done it like dcs a-10,you put in your serial for install and then you can play offline no probs,but when in multiplayer you have to log into your account which has your serial stored on their website,and that with people who pirated the game cannot access multiplayer.


LOL ... that is EXACTLY what Steam does.

[JG52Krupi]

@tintifaxl Yes but those cracked games only allow single player so intake it you don't want multiplayer

[=XIII=Shea]

LOL ... that is EXACTLY what Steam does.

yea but with steam you need an online connection to go offline:rolleyes:

[TheGrunch]

Only once, ever. :confused: Is that an insurmountable difficulty these days?

[meshuggahs]

yea but with steam you need an online connection to go offline:rolleyes:

Actually if you start it up without an internet connection you can start it up in offline mode straight away ;)

[Codex]

yea but with steam you need an online connection to go offline:rolleyes:

No you don't. :cool:

A common problem when people don't know what steps are needed to play in offline mode:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675439

You only ever need to connect ONCE to the Steam Network and do the following:

1. Enter in your CD key or what ever code that is required.
2. Have the game updated to it most current patch.
3. Ensure that your login details are saved on your PC via the Settings page.

From that point on you can physically unplug your net connection, open up Steam itself or run a Steam linked game from a desktop icon and you'll be presented with this:

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/steam-offline.jpg

You can now play in offline mode till your dying day.

[Siko]

Codex you are wasting your time, they won't listen!

Just sit back, relax and let the tin foil brigade gyrate themselves into a whirlpool of hysteria. I heard steam eats babies.

[kimosabi]

This whole thread looks like this:

http://www.mediahunter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/glass-half-full1.jpg

What do you see?

A glass of water. :P

[W32Blaster]

http://www.mediahunter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/glass-half-full1.jpg

What do you see?half empty glass of concentrated hydrochloric acid.

Just because I´ve got a quite negative attitude today ... :cool:

[Il2Pongo]

The only games I play on line that are not massive hosted ones are steam ones. And they have always worked great for me.

[Hecke]

Actually I didn't like Steam too much, but I have come to the conclusion that it will have a very positive effect on sales amount and so players amount.
Better have plenty of full servers with Steam than the opposite.

Can't wait for the first 70+ player servers ...

[Wynthorpe]

I really cant fathom what everyones problem is with Steam?! You can still have dedicated servers etc, run mods, do anything you want! Its only platform to launch the game and help stop piracy (which is only a good thing). I think you all need to really sit back and think how this will affect your game play......it wont!

[Blackdog_kt]

+1 the levelling of moaning here is beyond appailing, how dare ppl complain who else would even bother to make a highly detailed ww2 aircraft simulator when you can spit out games like cod and other fps year after year with no upgrades, minimal work and get paid 1000 times more than 1c will for il2 cod and that's after 6 years of development so everyone moaning here STFU and be glad your even getting a product like this and one that is not watered down for consoles

Since you're getting a tad aggressive here let me remind you that
a) steam brings nothing to the table that CoD won't be able to do on it's own, according to the man himself (mr Maddox), so it's more of an option rather than a necessity and
b) it was a publisher decision forced on them and not something they decided by themselves (again, their words not mine).

So, trying to make it seem as if the people who disagree with the decision to integrate Steam are somehow doing a disservice to team Maddox isn't exactly going to fly.

You guys really want to make me look for the exact quotes if i am to stop having to type the exact same reply every few posts , don't you? :rolleyes: :-P


Not gonna happen and it's the fault of hackers that these drm software are in use, it's the typical case of a few ruining it for everyone else.

I think all you need to do is activate the game once install steam then turn on play offline and you can have your LAN game. Inconvenient yes, a show stopper? not unless you are too stubborn to accept the inevitable.

You apparently missed that one. There is already a different DRM implementation for the game called Solidshield, so Steam is not there for copy protection reasons either. That means that even if you like Steam you too will lack the choice to use only Steam, you'll have to use the Solidshield DRM on top of it.

Apparently Solidshield is supposed to be very effective as well, more so than Steam, for the games of which a quick google search will reveal thousands of illegal torrents with an upload date similar to the game's release date.

It's not exactly the safest protection method and i know this from personal experience dating back to 2004 or so, maybe even earlier, and extending to the present day: while working at a webcafe we had valid licenses for all the games but whenever Steam was behaving strange and customers couldn't play, we changed the shortcut links to versions with "workarounds" that made the game playable until Steam service was restored.

All Steam games where cracked on day of release. You can get illegal copies of every game that's out there, so the only thing drm successfully supresses is the market for used games.

Actually, if we can disable Steam but the DRM can't be bypassed it will be a win-win situation for everyone: Solidshield DRM is still in place so the pirates can't distribute illegal copies, the people who like Steam can use it and those who don't can disable it.

I wouldn't be surprised if such a stalemate is reached after a few months.


On a more humorous note...

This whole thread looks like this:

http://www.mediahunter.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/glass-half-full1.jpg

What do you see?

...sorry, but i can't resist answering this one.

It's a glass of water.

It's enough for some people, too much for some and not enough for others.

Maybe it would be a good idea to let them go to the tap and fill it up a little more or allow them to not drink all of it, or even empty some of it into the sink so that, you know, they can actually decide for themselves about the amount of water they want to drink. What do you think about it? Isn't it a neat idea, or should we let half of them parch and waterboard the rest to show them who runs things around here? Yeah, that'll show them progress, i'm going to be the arbiter of their hydration ration for the rest of their lives! :-P

[Gimpymoo]

Absolutely awesome news.

Steam is full of win.

You have just earned yourself a pre-order from me for utilising steamworks.

Steam is the best thing to happen to pc gaming, ever.

Thank you Ubi.

[Yammo]

Bolds things to change context. Gripes about standard EUA verbage. You do realize basically every game you play says nearly exactly that Verbatim. I also suspect that your agreement to this forum says something similar about communications through it.

Uhm... You are arguing what exactly?
"That since some/most/all other game has the same draconian, customer
hostile, self-preserving, greed-corrupted EULA... we should quit complaining
that Steam has it?"

Please! Do allow me to chuckle at that concept a minute... *snicker*

...

Furthermore, I have always bought games and given them away to friends
when I've grown tired of them... So, your ad-hoc assertion that "basically
every game has an EULA which prevents you from giving your game away"
is in dire need of more than a few quotes & examples to support it.

[Yammo]

...that you can still use tools like the Hyperlobby and are not forced to play
via steam !

i guess some clarificationj is needed from official side here please !



Imo, hyperlobby is horrible.
It behaves worse than steam in many respects, like...
- Forcing you to update or you woun't even get connected.
- Stealing Focus at every turn it can.
- Updates forcing itself into "C:\Program files" even-though HL isn't installed there.
- etc, etc...

So, any alternative to HL would be welcome in my book.

[Yammo]

Absolutely awesome news.

Steam is full of win.

You have just earned yourself a pre-order from me for utilising steamworks.

Steam is the best thing to happen to pc gaming, ever.

Thank you Ubi.


LOL...!

Talk about a school-book example of someone getting paid to influence forums.

I'm guessing hired and paid by UBI-soft...
Because no normal gamer would even think of putting the words "Thank you"
and "UBI-soft" in the same room, except during sarcastic hour on Fridays.

[Yammo]

Not at all like the anti-steam (anti-everything) bunch then?

There's always someone who has to go...

- If you don't take the blue pill, then you will probably have reservations.
-- If you have reservations, then you will probably have suggestions
--- If you are suggesting something, then you are technically complaining.
---- If you are complaining, then you are whining.
----- If you are whining, then you don't have a point.
------ If you don't have a point, then you should get lost.


Though, I did enjoy your attempt to equate being "anti-steam" with being "anti-everything".




Personally I'm fed up with all negativism here and all this whinig about everything does not lead anywhere.

Oh, noez...
I stand in the doorway, waving my white handkerchief, with tears running down my...
...oh wait.

[swiss]

- Updates forcing itself into "C:\Program files" even-though HL isn't installed

Now the fact you can't use a PC is HL's fault?

Buy a Mac.

[Yammo]

Now the fact you can't use a PC is HL's fault?

Buy a Mac.

The fact that you chose to mis-quote me in order to flame, shows that you
are nothing but a troll. //ktnxbye

[Gimpymoo]

Steams multiplayer support destroys Hyperlobby in EVERY way possible.

[JG52Uther]

Why are so many people registering just to post how much they support steam?
Bit weird that.

[machoo]

ALl you cry babies saying steam is crap and you can't mod and blah blah blah. Well I have Arma and Arma2 - and have a gigjillion mods for that and they work just fine using steam.

Get off ya high horses.

[Hellfire257]

ALl you cry babies saying steam is crap and you can't mod and blah blah blah. Well I have Arma and Arma2 - and have a gigjillion mods for that and they work just fine using steam.

Get off ya high horses.

The current poll put up by the BIS developers suggests that 67% of the community don't want Steam for ARMA and 13% are not sure.

[darth_rye]

S!

The real problem with STEAM it's that we will not have what HL gives with all the team, coop, dogfight and international competitions rooms...

If they implement it as other games, we will have a shooter style of management of serves to connect with, just a damm list....

Hope the at the end we can choose between STEAM or any other Server Manager, this is the fair way.

After all this years playing in HL it's a real pity that we must leave it cause this..... hate when they forced me to use something that i don't want to...

[BigPickle]

Sadly they have lost all 33 buyers from one clan thats been buying IL2 since the outset because of the steam choice. I'm not too fussed but I believe its probably an attemp to make sure the game dont get hacked again.
Dont think we need online activation, solid sheild and steam though, kinda over kill.

[GnigruH]

Sadly they have lost all 33 buyers from one clan thats been buying IL2 since the outset because of the steam choice.

My entire village is not going to buy this game because the elders said steam is evil, and we want no evil in our tribe.

BTW Why are so many people registering just to post how much they hate steam?
Bit weird that.

[The Kraken]

S!

The real problem with STEAM it's that we will not have what HL gives with all the team, coop, dogfight and international competitions rooms...

If they implement it as other games, we will have a shooter style of management of serves to connect with, just a damm list....

Hope the at the end we can choose between STEAM or any other Server Manager, this is the fair way.

After all this years playing in HL it's a real pity that we must leave it cause this..... hate when they forced me to use something that i don't want to...

Oleg said some time ago that HL or other 3rd party clients could still be used; while we don't know if that's still the case there is right now no indication that you will have to use Steam as a multiplayer lobby.

[The Kraken]

BTW Why are so many people registering just to post how much they hate steam?
Bit weird that.

Not weird at all. People have a concern and think it's worth registering to voice it. Not sure what's wrong with that :confused: Sure it probably won't make a difference; then again the way EA, Ubi and other companies have reduced various restrictions on their DRM in the last years was probably not for people staying silent.

[brando]

Imo, hyperlobby is horrible.
It behaves worse than steam in many respects, like...
- Forcing you to update or you woun't even get connected.
- Stealing Focus at every turn it can.
- Updates forcing itself into "C:\Program files" even-though HL isn't installed there.
- etc, etc...

So, any alternative to HL would be welcome in my book.

Well, hooray for you and your opinion(s) and I hope you won't mind me refuting a few of them.

After the crapfest that was the Ubi-lobby (where it was impossible to host from behind a router ffs!) the advent of Jiri's Hyperlobby was a godsend for the online community.
Provided free to all-comers it has undergone development throughout its ten years hosting online support for the IL-2 community and has only rarely been offline in that time.

So,
-updating is occasionally necessary. It doesn't occur automatically as Steam does, but gives you a choice, called an Installer window.
-There you have the option of directing your update to wherever you choose on your hard drive(s) by using said Installer window. Used properly it will function perfectly.
-during the short time that it takes to update you are able to read the list of functions and rules that have been updated and why. It makes interesting reading.
-it's all about improved functionality and usage.
-your comment about needing to use the latest version in order to connect is surely self-explanatory?
If hyperlobby is "stealing focus" then that is, sadly, down to user error.

Overall, I find the 'dissing' of applications such as hyperlobby objectionable.
Sure, we're all being urged to go forwards and use the latest and greatest of apps, or suffer the scorn of the converted - but I resent this Orwellian "two legs bad, four legs good" kind of propaganda. However antiquated Hyperlobby is (and that's arguable) it was absolutely key to the early success of IL-2 online after the fiasco that was the Ubi-hosted server lobby.
Jiri Fotjasek really rode to the rescue of the online game and deserves a little more respect than you seem prepared to offer him. On the other hand a large number of us do feel grateful and I think it'll be a sad day if we don't get the option to use the HL for CloD.

I don't think this makes me a Luddite, does it?

[zauii]

I think most people recon that hyperlobby has indeed been a godsend and a brilliant app that's been keeping the IL2 community alive. With that said, it's still a dated product,
it lacks in many areas and it's far from userfriendly compared to modern standards, thus here the online community will really benefit from Steam.

[TheEditor]

hyperlobby had its place and I hope Steam replaces it.

[JG52Krupi]

I think most people recon that hyperlobby has indeed been a godsend and a brilliant app that's been keeping the IL2 community alive. With that said, it's still a dated product,
it lacks in many areas and it's far from userfriendly compared to modern standards, thus here the online community will really benefit from Steam.

Couldn't have said it better myself, hyperlobby is a great tool but unfortunately it has started to shows its age and i had multiple problems using in on vista, seems to work better with windows 7 :confused:

[JG52Uther]

Couldn't have said it better myself, hyperlobby is a great tool but unfortunately it has started to shows its age and i had multiple problems using in on vista, seems to work better with windows 7 :confused:
When was the last time you were on HL?

[darth_rye]

Oleg said some time ago that HL or other 3rd party clients could still be used; while we don't know if that's still the case there is right now no indication that you will have to use Steam as a multiplayer lobby.

Nice to hear that, hope they keep it in that way so we can choose....

If that it's the case, then we have hopes....

[JG52Krupi]

When was the last time you were on HL?

Time to get personal :D nasty... I was a few weeks back but never saw anyone :( Karaya did say that more of the squad were back but im still too busy to be of use in an online war just skirmishes.. this june that ends and i will have my life back :cool:

[SG1_Gunkan]

I love hyperlobby, and don't want Steam's lobby.

Online IL2 whitout hyperlooby it's like IL2 without BF109.

[GnigruH]

Online IL2 whitout hyperlooby it's like IL2 without BF109.

I take it.

[Blackdog_kt]

S!

The real problem with STEAM it's that we will not have what HL gives with all the team, coop, dogfight and international competitions rooms...

If they implement it as other games, we will have a shooter style of management of serves to connect with, just a damm list....

That's still an IF, but it will probably be the main reason for me to use a custom-made community server browser that's specifically tailored to a flight sim game. You know, a detailed list that mentions the server's difficulty settings, what kind of scenarios it runs, what kind of mods it might support, etc.



Hope the at the end we can choose between STEAM or any other Server Manager, this is the fair way.

After all this years playing in HL it's a real pity that we must leave it cause this..... hate when they forced me to use something that i don't want to...

A few weeks ago Oleg Maddox confirmed this will be possible at a later date. Later date meaning "the tools are there, someone from the community just needs to use them to support it", so it's highly possible we'll see it in Hyperlobby and other server browsers as well.

All in all, the Steam fans can use their favorite platform and we'll probably be able to use whatever interface suits us best too. It's exactly statements like that coming from official sources that make me doubt the necessity of Steam. It seems it's not necessary for the game to work, just for those that already like it, and that's why i'll be bypassing it first chance i get as long as the rest of the game functions properly without it.

[Thee_oddball]

All in all, the Steam fans can use their favorite platform and we'll probably be able to use whatever interface suits us best too. It's exactly statements like that coming from official sources that make me doubt the necessity of Steam. It seems it's not necessary for the game to work, just for those that already like it, and that's why i'll be bypassing it first chance i get as long as the rest of the game functions properly without it.

Cod was not written around Steam, there is probably some small program that will handle all the interaction between Steam and the Game.

[BigPickle]

My entire village is not going to buy this game because the elders said steam is evil, and we want no evil in our tribe.

BTW Why are so many people registering just to post how much they hate steam?
Bit weird that.

Hmmm sounds like your right at home then.