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Skoshi Tiger
03-03-2011, 07:02 AM
Hi,

With the Collectors Edition looking like it's not going to be put into production I think it would be interesting to compile a list of possible alternatives to the material.

Heres a basic start, feel free to post alternatives for Charts, Pilots notes etc

Software - digital download from Ubisoft

MK II Spitfire pilot notes ( http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Spitfire2_Manual.html ) (can anyone find a MKI notes????)

Cheers!

TheGrunch
03-03-2011, 07:12 AM
Pick one from here (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/) if you can be bothered to register. Plenty to see. Crecy sell reproductions of Air Ministry Pilot's Notes here (http://www.crecy.co.uk/index.php?cPath=12&osCsid=7gbbg88jktq1iiobenh4ga8dh6) for £6 also.

41Sqn_Banks
03-03-2011, 07:25 AM
(can anyone find a MKI notes????)

I've never found one, to me this is the main reason to get the Collector's Edition. I'm still confident that the CE will be released in Germany.

dash2099
03-03-2011, 07:41 AM
Mate,

Great minds! its crazy... i was just logging on here to post about somthing similar to this, i was thinking about calling it the "Community Edition" :)

Creating a box filled with the following contents:

1) Spitfire pilots handbook
2) Spitfire 2 pilot notes
3) spitfire pilots and ground crew notes
4) Map (trying to find an actual BoB map)


the spitfire 1 pilots notes is hard to find, but the 1940 manual is available as a reprint. The RAF museum in the UK might have it, if someone in the UK can check up on this.

i was thinking about bulk sourcing a printer to reprint if we a digital copy, or buying actual reprints from the RAF museum at a lower price if people want physical copies. Links to the electronic documents are great too! obviously easier and cheaper, but i like the physical copies.

maybe we can all kick this idea around a little bit more, cant think of a better thing to have on my shelf to remind me what makde il2 so great - community pitching in!

meshuggahs
03-03-2011, 07:56 AM
1) 1 250lb bomb
2) 1 parachute
3) A blow up autopilot from Airplane!

Tho I'd be happy with the original contet they planned.

41Sqn_Banks
03-03-2011, 08:47 AM
the spitfire 1 pilots notes is hard to find, but the 1940 manual is available as a reprint. The RAF museum in the UK might have it, if someone in the UK can check up on this.


Are you refering to this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spitfire-Manual-1940-Dilip-Sarkar/dp/1848684363)? This is not a real manual, it's a compilation of several documents:
- Spitfire II Pilot's Notes
- more than 40 pages of introduction by the Author.
- extracts of a Pilot log book (from Johnnie Johnson, Britain's best fighter pilot).
- examples of Pilot combat reports (still from J. Johnson).
- 4 WW2 manuals:
1. Forget-me-nots for fighters
2. General notes on air gunnery and air fighting
3. Bag the hun!
4. Warplanes: card game for aircraft spotters.

Sure a nice compilation, but no Spitfire I Pilot's Notes included :(

Vevster
03-03-2011, 09:43 AM
Hi,

With the Collectors Edition looking like it's not going to be put into production ...



Uhh? Any solid info on that or this is just a rumor-amplification-device conclusion?

Feathered_IV
03-03-2011, 10:18 AM
Seems reliable. At least one game retailer that is cancelling its pre orders is informing customers that the CE version is cancelled due to "production problems". One of the active threads here has the refund-letter quoted.

Probably the problem is that the contents were a half arsed idea that couldn't be made cheaply enough. Specifically the faux escape map. Imagine trying to cost effectively print an area about eight times the size of the Rise of Flight map onto fabric at a half decent resolution. I'll bet you anything they couldn't manage that for a viable price.

Vevster
03-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Seems reliable. At least one game retailer that is cancelling its pre orders is informing customers that the CE version is cancelled due to "production problems". One of the active threads here has the refund-letter quoted.


OK, one game retailer is cancelling orders for the CE but others are sending emails advertising for it (received today an email from amazon).
And it's still available at Ubishop here....

Could be that the CE is not sent to that particular retailer you're mentionning or this retailer's country.

So, no, doesn't seem much reliable to me.

Moggy
03-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Mate,

Great minds! its crazy... i was just logging on here to post about somthing similar to this, i was thinking about calling it the "Community Edition" :)

Creating a box filled with the following contents:

1) Spitfire pilots handbook
2) Spitfire 2 pilot notes
3) spitfire pilots and ground crew notes
4) Map (trying to find an actual BoB map)


the spitfire 1 pilots notes is hard to find, but the 1940 manual is available as a reprint. The RAF museum in the UK might have it, if someone in the UK can check up on this.

i was thinking about bulk sourcing a printer to reprint if we a digital copy, or buying actual reprints from the RAF museum at a lower price if people want physical copies. Links to the electronic documents are great too! obviously easier and cheaper, but i like the physical copies.

maybe we can all kick this idea around a little bit more, cant think of a better thing to have on my shelf to remind me what makde il2 so great - community pitching in!

I've just performed a search through the National Archives Catalogue based in Kew and I think I may of found pilot's notes for the Spitfire Mk.I. The piece reference number is AIR 10/2380 and the former reference is AP No. 1565A

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=4135263

I think a trip to Kew may be in order for me. ;)

camel24hrs
03-03-2011, 10:39 AM
When the game was first put up for preorder and I could not get the collectors edition here in the states I went to amazon and found the copy of the manual that matched the picture of the manual from the collectors edition and ordered it. Here is the link.

http://www.amazon.com/SPITFIRE-MANUAL-Dilip-Sarkar/dp/1848684363/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1299148305&sr=8-2

There is a section in it on deflection shooting that I think may be useful. The price was not to bad, I think I paid 17 bucks, USD. Frankly I dont see all the fuss about the collectors edition. My big deal was getting a retail box edition which I am glad to have found at gogamer.

41Sqn_Banks
03-03-2011, 11:08 AM
This is not the manual that will ship with the Collector's Edition. There was a draft screenshot of the CE that showed that manual, but the official screenshots clearly show a Spitfire I Pilot's Notes.

jcenzano
03-03-2011, 12:32 PM
if the ground is so realistic as they say, these maps should do.

but printing them to the original size can be $painful$

http://www.a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=24

winny
03-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Here's a suggestion, buy Richard Overly's Battle of Britain Experience book, It's got loads of reproduction period documents included, Baders log book, Spitfire MKI Pilots note's (shortened but still nice), massive operations planning map from 14th Sept 1940, Hurricane pilots diary entries. Copies of orders, etc. It all comes in a nice box.

You'll probably not learn anything new from the actual book, (mainly nice photo's) but the facsimile documents (RAF and LW) are pretty good and it's one of those 'nice things to own'.

It's on Amazon for £17.

Skoshi Tiger
03-03-2011, 01:07 PM
Uhh? Any solid info on that or this is just a rumor-amplification-device conclusion?

Here is the text from email sent to me from the online shop I ordered the Collectors edition from when they informed me of the issue

"
------------------
Order Number: 99747
Detailed Invoice: http://www.boostep.fi/account_history_info.php?order_id=99747
Date Ordered: Sunday 13 February, 2011

The comments for your order are


Hi,

unfortunatly I have some bad news about the IL-2Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Collectores edition: Ubisoft has decided to cancel the release of this game. Here is the official statement from UbiSoft Nordic:


IL2: Cliffs of Dover Collector's Edition
----------

Due to a failure in the manufacturing of several components for IL2: Cliffs of Dover ?I am sorry to inform you, that Ubisoft not will be able to deliver this product as ?requested and furthermore we will not start up the manufacturing again.
I have arranged to have the standard version exclusively for the ?Nordic countries only due to the fact this version only was meant to ?be a downloadable version.
I apologize for the inconvenience this may have cost you and customers.
?Ubisoft Nordic A/S

The good news is that I can offer you a Special Nordic edition for the price of 43 euros + shipping. If you choose to order this version I will refund the difference, of course.
If you choose to cansel the whole order I will refund the whole sum of money.
I am truly sorry abut this since I know many people has been waiting for the release of this game. And I hope the possibility to purchase this special nordic edition some how can compensate parts of the inconvenience. I have ordered some of this game already so all preorders that has been placed for the collectors edition should get one of these nordic edition. It is to my understanding that the difference is mainly that the booklets and such is not included but the game is the same.

Kind regards,
Monika / Boostep customer service"


----------------------------------------

Now as an Australian and the fact the version that I was buying was also for the Australian region I'ld assume that the issue would also involve my land of abode as well.

Several people also posted letters recently that they pre-ordered from a shop EBGames in Australia. When I went to EBgames a day or so latter the CE was not listed. I have not heard if they have had their orders cancelled as well.

Personally I'm loosing enthusiasm for the Collectors Edition and created this thread to help gather resources that will help me enhance my enjoyment of the sim when it comes out.

What was your reason for posting in it?

Vevster
03-03-2011, 01:15 PM
Personally I'm loosing enthusiasm for the Collectors Edition and created this thread to help gather resources that will help me enhance my enjoyment of the sim when it comes out.

What was your reason for posting in it?

I didn't know one was required to have a reason or a special authorization to post in a thread....:rolleyes:

I did not question your alternatives, just a broad affirmation that the CE was not put in production.

As I have ordered several CEs, I am interested in knowing. I simply asked if that affirmation was based on something solid or an extrapolation.

As I said, I also received an email from amazon listing the CE edition. Would seem strange (but still possible, though) to receive that email today while the CE is cancelled all over the world.

Seems that the only info s that the CE is not and will not be available in some countries. That doesn't mean all countries.

Btw, an email from a retailer stating that it is a publisher error has very little value to me, as I know that some retailers offer games on pre order without really knowing. Same for them putting down BS launch dates on their websites sometimes (probably because their system requires a release date to show the game...).

There is as much chance that Nordic retailers acted too quickly by putting the CE on pre order as Ubi giving them poor information (release then no release...)

Skoshi Tiger
03-03-2011, 02:03 PM
I didn't know one was required to have a reason or a special authorization to post in a thread....:rolleyes:


My question was aimed at understanding your motives for posting in an antagonistic manner.

Your posts have added nothing to the discussion. I assumed that you are a troll. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

See you on the flipside!

Vevster
03-03-2011, 02:34 PM
My question was aimed at understanding your motives for posting in an antagonistic manner.

Your posts have added nothing to the discussion. I assumed that you are a troll. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

See you on the flipside!

OK, so I need an authorization, I post in an antogonistic manner and I am a troll.

All this because I questionned the veracity of a broad affirmation about the CE being cancelled worldwide.

I think you should look at your own post to see antagonistic manner.

I'm pretty sure I'll receive my CEs, as they have not been cancelled.

Blackdog_kt
03-03-2011, 03:54 PM
Guys, collector's editions are limited editions. It sure stinks being unable to get it but that's how it has always worked out, grab it while you can.

Case in point, Starcraft 2 was released this summer and it too had a collector's edition that used to cost around 80 Euros. When i checked up on it a couple of months ago on ebay, a complete set was priced as high as $200. Individual items from the box can fetch a price as high as 100 Euros.
If it was still in print and available it wouldn't be that expensive.

I think the issue with CoD is not the limited availability of collector's editions, because that's the whole point behind such an edition. The issue is region-locking the release so that some countries don't even get the chance to try their hand at ordering one.

The most absurd thing however is not even allowing a physical disc copy for most countries. Where i live the only option is the download version. I hate having to ship it via mail (i get paranoid that it will get lost :-P )but i got a relative of mine who's studying abroad to grab one CE for me.
It will either be mailed to me or i'll wait until my relative flies back home before the Easter holidays and brings it back in the baggage.

Another thing to note, it would be cool if their system allowed people with a hard copy pre-order to also download it a couple of days after the initial release (that is, after the people who want the download edition have managed to get it first) while they are waiting for the box to arrive in the mail.

Artist
03-03-2011, 04:21 PM
I've just performed a search through the National Archives Catalogue based in Kew and I think I may of found pilot's notes for the Spitfire Mk.I. The piece reference number is AIR 10/2380 and the former reference is AP No. 1565A

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=4135263

I think a trip to Kew may be in order for me. ;)

That would be really great! And if you get a (digital)copy, please make sure that has become public domain (should be - 71 years later) and let us have copies, too.

Artist

camel24hrs
03-03-2011, 05:41 PM
This is not the manual that will ship with the Collector's Edition. There was a draft screenshot of the CE that showed that manual, but the official screenshots clearly show a Spitfire I Pilot's Notes.

The manual that I ordered did contain pilot notes. It had detailed drawings of the spitfire, the history of the spitfire and well as info on starting and taking off, tatics and deflection shooting. I dont know what is going to be put in the collectors edition. I just ordered it because it was the same as in the photo of the collectors edition supplied to us.

Avimimus
03-03-2011, 06:23 PM
A booklet with after action reports from the war. Say, twelve two-page anecdotes.

To make people interested in history (adds a lot imaginatively to the game).

Codex
03-03-2011, 08:39 PM
The special edition is still being made and before putting money down ... again ... for a CE I hounded EBGames Australia, they've confirmed they're receiving CE, but who knows. I'm pinning my hopes on Luthier's post a few days ago.

Originally Posted by luthier:
The information at least some of you have gotten from your resellers may not necessarily be accurate.

Just to let you guys know that we didn't want to respond here until we learned what was going on ourselves.

I still don't have the full details, but I can tell you some things for sure right now:

1. The Special Edition is still being published

2. I'm not sure about regions where it will be availability at retail outlets vs online ordering, but at least the online version should be available worldwide.

We'll keep you updated. Rest assured, we really appreciate your support and we are really hoping you'll get what you want, and not just in terms of goodies!

Skoshi Tiger
03-03-2011, 10:52 PM
The special edition is still being made and before putting money down ... again ... for a CE I hounded EBGames Australia, they've confirmed they're receiving CE, but who knows. I'm pinning my hopes on Luthier's post a few days ago.

It will be very interested in seeing how it all pans out. When I searched EBGamw.com.au I couldn't find it.

I hope your (and Luthier) are right. My respect for Oleg and his team is boundless, but as publisher I doubt Ubi could organise a bit of straight loving in a brothel!

Cheers!

Flying Pencil
03-03-2011, 11:38 PM
I want to voice my desire for a CE.

jcenzano
03-04-2011, 07:54 AM
I want to voice my desire for a CE.

+1

41Sqn_Banks
03-04-2011, 08:43 AM
http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7871043264/m/2471079219?r=8671044319#8671044319

Translation:
I can confirm this. There will be a Collector's Edition. Don't worry!

... at least in Germany.

41Sqn_Banks
03-04-2011, 08:50 AM
About the release date:
http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7871043264/m/1131081319?r=5081044319#5081044319

Translation:
The final release date is March 24th, 2011. I don't think that something will change this. We have USK (German PEGI equivalent) and everything is in production. Everything will be fine.

dash2099
03-04-2011, 11:51 AM
I've just performed a search through the National Archives Catalogue based in Kew and I think I may of found pilot's notes for the Spitfire Mk.I. The piece reference number is AIR 10/2380 and the former reference is AP No. 1565A

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=4135263

I think a trip to Kew may be in order for me. ;)

way to go Moggy! keep us posted, let me know us know what the costs are.

41sqn_banks, thanks for confirming that the 1940 manual inst directly what we're after. I picked up on that as well, and i'm aware how hard the Spit 1 Pilots notes are to find. It was primarily my purpose for buying the CE too.

Gents, i want like a copy of the CE too. But unfortunately like many of you, i'm apparently not allowed to buy one. Groupiesoft seem hell bent on turning this game into "Cliff of Bendover". All the frustrations in trying to get a CE have been ruining my anticipation for the game. I'm done chasing my tail and on this and would like to contribute to this excellent effort by Skoshi. This way atleast we get something, instead of nothing - to enjoy the game.

Skoshi Tiger
03-05-2011, 03:34 AM
if the ground is so realistic as they say, these maps should do.

but printing them to the original size can be $painful$

http://www.a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=24

I bought these maps today.

The map of the 12 Group area is about 12966x8768px. I printed an A4 size area at 100% size on my lexmark printer at normal quality and it was quite legible. Writing and symbols similar size to my WAC chart.

I've got access to a A3 colour laser printer at work so I'll have a go at printing off a copy and see what they turn out like and report back. (It'll be about Thrusday till I'm back at work)

Cheer and Jcenzano thanks for the link!

PS

What sort of Kite Flying did they do atDymchurch Redoubt? What ever it was it was dangerous to 10,000' !!!

Biggs
03-05-2011, 03:41 AM
is the Spitfire manual in the CE actually the mkI version or do u think Maddox Games just reprinted the more accessible mkII version...

does anyone really have a confirmation about the CE version's contents?

TheGrunch
03-05-2011, 09:40 AM
is the Spitfire manual in the CE actually the mkI version or do u think Maddox Games just reprinted the more accessible mkII version...

does anyone really have a confirmation about the CE version's contents?
Perhaps this is why the CE is currently unavailable outside the UK (AFAIK anyway)? Perhaps items reprinted from the National Archives are not permitted to be sold commercially outside the UK?

Vevster
03-05-2011, 10:09 AM
Perhaps this is why the CE is currently unavailable outside the UK (AFAIK anyway)? Perhaps items reprinted from the National Archives are not permitted to be sold commercially outside the UK?

The CE is also available in Germany, France, and EB Games now sells it in Australia from what we can read on this forum

TheGrunch
03-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Okay. Just bear in mind that the ability to preorder something doesn't necessarily indicate availability. Check these (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/3521042319?r=2741064319#2741064319) posts (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/1881099809?r=1531094319#1531094319) by ms-kleaneasy on the Ubi forum.

Moggy
03-05-2011, 11:22 AM
Will do Dash, I've never ordered or even been to the National Archives. I believe they do allow photography of some items so if the costs are too much (and I'm allowed to) I'll take a few snaps. But I'd rather have a proper copy of the pilot notes. I'll get in touch with them soon and try to get some prices.

winny
03-05-2011, 01:57 PM
I mentioned earlier in the thread that there's a BoB book that comes with a facsimile MKI pilot's notes booklet.

I checked the credits of the book and they got the MKI manual from the RAF Museum and it's copright of HMSO. It is only 8 pages long (I don't know how many pages a real one has) but it's got the cockpit layouts port and starboard, Handling and flying notes (take off, climbing, general flying) Stalling, Spinnng, Aerobatics, Diving.

When I saw the CE edition the MKI manual looks just like the one I got with the book. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same facsimile, Has the red cover and is about the same size and has already been produced.

Just speculating really. I might just scan it and share it anyway...

Vevster
03-05-2011, 06:38 PM
Okay. Just bear in mind that the ability to preorder something doesn't necessarily indicate availability. Check these (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/3521042319?r=2741064319#2741064319) posts (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/1881099809?r=1531094319#1531094319) by ms-kleaneasy on the Ubi forum.

Yes, seen them; on the other hand:

- CE pre orders in France have never been cancelled as of today, for instance from the Ubishop. Amazon is offering them as well. Cancellation occured only in Nordic countries it seems. So it's probably a case of some retailers offering something without being 100% sure they'll get it.
- neither have they been cancelled in Germany, afaik
- Ms-kleaneasy, while very helpful on the forum as is not a Ubi employee (external contractor) afaik, so her information is not alwats up to date. This is why she says she will look for info, btw.
- she takes take of the english-speakingg forum, I suppose her contacts are with the UK distribution subsidiary of Ubi. she doesn't look at french or german speaking forums so she probably missed the info of the availability in these countries. That's understandable.

TheGrunch
03-05-2011, 07:13 PM
Yeah, true. At the end of the day though, isn't it embarrassing that we're able to have this conversation...this kind of uncertainty over the release and availability of a game. Well done Ubi! :rolleyes:

Dangerdog
03-05-2011, 10:41 PM
It's too bad that ubisoft is the publisher, rather poor marketing thus far and in the US there's not even a listing for it on Gamestop.com

And still nothing on Steam.

winny
03-06-2011, 12:46 PM
...



Original BoB 1940 period Pilot's Notes ? : The issue with most available today's Pilot's Notes, is the incorporation of multiple "after 1940" amendments into the original publication.

Per exemple, that facsimile of the cutted down Air Publication A.P. 1565A, Spitfire I Aeroplane, has the January 1942 N° 24/H and the N°25/J amendments incorporated into the document, introducing changes in the Fuel, Oil, Coolant, Maximum Range Etc ... specifications.





...

I just looked and it's got the 1942 ammendments. Looks exactly like the Red Spitfire 1 book in your pic.

Vevster
03-06-2011, 02:32 PM
Yeah, true. At the end of the day though, isn't it embarrassing that we're able to have this conversation...this kind of uncertainty over the release and availability of a game. Well done Ubi! :rolleyes:

This I agree with :(

jcenzano
03-06-2011, 11:40 PM
I bought these maps today.
Cheer and Jcenzano thanks for the link!


You are very welcome.

The scans are very good quality. For example, the london map is 12966x8768 pixels, at a resolution of 508DPI. that means that the native printing size is 25,5x17,25 inches AT 508DPI. You can enlarge the image with no noticeable loss of quality until 250DPI. That means that you can get a printout with fotographic quality of 50x35 inches (that is 127x89cm). Well, that is for sure bigger than the original map. Bottom line: you can get a "replica" of the maps limited only by the quality of the original maps and the scanner used by the A2A guys.

And you will not get anything more "real".

Now lets see if we cand find maps for the other side of the channel!!