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View Full Version : The "Crooked Cross" symbol on LW aircraft tails


Flying Pencil
03-01-2011, 07:05 PM
Since the unmentionable "Crooked Cross" is illegal in some countries and is a nightmare for others, what about a substitute?

The RAF put a 2 color bar on its vertical.
The LW aircraft in game without the mark is, off, not just becuase it is, but more so compared to the RAF aircraft.

Substitutes mark rejected?

Novotny
03-01-2011, 07:14 PM
I'd like to propose some sort of symbol for Gay Pride. Or perhaps a pic of Basil Fawlty doing his routine. Henry Kissinger? For the folks at home, David Cameron.

I predict an enormo-thread.

yellonet
03-01-2011, 07:14 PM
Since the unmentionable "Crooked Cross" is illegal in some countries and is a nightmare for others, what about a substitute?

The RAF put a 2 color bar on its vertical.
The LW aircraft in game without the mark is, off, not just becuase it is, but more so compared to the RAF aircraft.

Substitutes mark rejected?

Hopefully the original markings can be put into the game by anyone that wish it.
Censorship is lame, although I can understand it from 1c's viewpoint.

Looking at a swastika or even wanting to have it in a game for immersion and or historical accuracy doesn't make one a Nazi.

choctaw111
03-01-2011, 07:19 PM
From a historical standpoint, I think that the "crooked cross" should be included.
Yes, Hitler was bad, as is what the "crooked cross" represented, but we must all remember history, not just certain parts or things.

Tacoma74
03-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Since the unmentionable "Crooked Cross" is illegal in some countries and is a nightmare for others, what about a substitute?

The RAF put a 2 color bar on its vertical.
The LW aircraft in game without the mark is, off, not just becuase it is, but more so compared to the RAF aircraft.

Substitutes mark rejected?

Wait for mods. I guarantee this will be one of the first ones.

Sauf
03-01-2011, 07:22 PM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c93/spritzen/hello_kitty_wallpaper_Hello-Kitty_800x600.jpg


I personally will enable/skin a Hakenkreuz as soon as possible, German WW2 combat A/C look silly without it, that and the fact that I dont like to be told what i can display in the privacy of my own home.

Novotny
03-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Guys, not much point in debating the whys and fors, as you all know anyway. Just tell us what you'd stick in there instead, much more amusing.

JG4_Helofly
03-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Why not put a simple iron cross on the tail? German WWI fighters had such a cross if I remember correctly and the Bundeswehr use it too

ChrisDNT
03-01-2011, 08:06 PM
http://i53.tinypic.com/11kuzcp.jpg
;) :cool:

ChrisDNT
03-01-2011, 08:10 PM
"I'd like to propose some sort of symbol for Gay Pride."

Hire John Galiano for the design.
I will have soon enough time ;)

Osprey
03-01-2011, 08:19 PM
Why not put a simple iron cross on the tail? German WWI fighters had such a cross if I remember correctly and the Bundeswehr use it too

'cos it looks sh*t? May as well put this on it "because Lufthansa used it from 1958 onwards"

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2618060368_f7fdf519ba.jpg

Oldschool61
03-01-2011, 08:21 PM
From a historical standpoint, I think that the "crooked cross" should be included.
Yes, Hitler was bad, as is what the "crooked cross" represented, but we must all remember history, not just certain parts or things.

The swastika isnt a nazi origonal as most know. Its still used in India as a symbol of peace/good luck etc. Some countrys need to lighten up. Its just a stinkin symbol. To many superstitous people still on this planet.

Coen020
03-01-2011, 10:06 PM
It's just weird that it's forbidden in something like a simulator, if you look at history books, or photographic books about WW2 you constantly see it.

I do agree that it should be forbidden if it's worshipped along with nazism.
But we just want historical accuracy.

WTE_Galway
03-01-2011, 10:28 PM
Its not forbidden in most countries if its in a genuine historical context like a display of historical photographs from the period.

However its pretty difficult to claim that a game where people will be flying non-historical low level turn fights online in wonder woman view with cockpits turned off is a "genuine historical context" .

Meusli
03-01-2011, 10:40 PM
"I'd like to propose some sort of symbol for Gay Pride."

Hire John Galiano for the design.
I will have soon enough time ;)

Brilliant, cheers for the laugh.

Blackdog_kt
03-01-2011, 11:34 PM
http://i53.tinypic.com/11kuzcp.jpg
;) :cool:

Hahaha, awesome :-P

JG4_Helofly
03-01-2011, 11:41 PM
'cos it looks sh*t? May as well put this on it "because Lufthansa used it from 1958 onwards"



Why would it look like xxxx? At least it's a german military symbol and we won't get any Hakenkreuz in the original version of the game. So it's either something else, or nothing at all.

ElAurens
03-01-2011, 11:41 PM
Your graphics editing/creation program of choice will fix this problem with little effort.

Or, just wait for our fine skinning community to fix it.

Flying Pencil
03-02-2011, 12:10 AM
It could be a diamond shape seen on the tail of this model Ju
http://kits.kitreview.com/images/junkersw34reviewbg_box1.jpg

Or the outer arms as on this decals.
http://kits.kitreview.com/images/junkersw34reviewbg_decals.jpg

or...

Skoshi Tiger
03-02-2011, 12:58 AM
I'd like to propose some sort of symbol for Gay Pride.

I thought the swastika Was the symbol of Gay Pride! Or maybe it should be? It would take away any negitive association with the symbol!

Cheers!

GOA_Potenz
03-02-2011, 01:18 AM
well as many other say, is just historical accuracy, and in the other hand
why we can't chose what to pick up, and as somebody else say, swastika
is part of history and history must not be ereased but remembered.

speculum jockey
03-02-2011, 02:14 AM
Well, you could take ten second and download a swastika using google image search. Then you could paste it on the skin of your choice and load that skin in-game.

Why are we still having this discussion? It's like complaining that windows doesn't ship with wallpapers of nude women. MAKE IT HAPPEN! It's not hard and it doesn't even take more than a minute to do. I'm sure even the slowest of 12 year olds could do it from just readign this post. Do you also complain that your ramen noodles don't come pre-cooked and ready to eat in the package?

Jeeze!

Please tell me you people are not that helpless?

Edit: Wait 1 hour after the game is released! There will be more swastika mods than you can shake a stick at.

Necrobaron
03-02-2011, 02:25 AM
I've expressed my views on this topic before. I support Maddox Games' decision to omit the swastika for fear of potential legal reprisal, though I do think the "boogey man" stigma that surrounds the swastika is ridiculous. The way in which the Nazis perverted the swastika is a historical reality and nothing can change that. It is what it is. I highly doubt many neo-Nazis are going to get meaningfully frenzied into a political fervor after buying a flight simulator that features the big scary swastika on the vertical stabilizer of a few planes.

With that said, I'd be fine if they just used the aforementioned diamond or an "X" as an alternative. It'd look okay from a distance. I'll probably just wait for the community to correct the issue.

WTE_Galway
03-02-2011, 03:07 AM
I thought the swastika Was the symbol of Gay Pride! Or maybe it should be? It would take away any negitive association with the symbol!

Cheers!


This is not actually a good topic to make fun of:



http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005261

From 1937 to 1939, the peak years of the Nazi persecution of homosexuals, the police increasingly raided homosexual meeting places, seized address books, and created networks of informers and undercover agents to identify and arrest suspected homosexuals. On April 4, 1938, the Gestapo issued a directive indicating that men convicted of homosexuality could be incarcerated in concentration camps. Between 1933 and 1945 the police arrested an estimated 100,000 men as homosexuals. Most of the 50,000 men sentenced by the courts spent time in regular prisons, and between 5,000 and 15,000 were interned in concentration camps.

...

Prisoners marked by pink triangles to signify homosexuality were treated harshly in the camps. According to many survivor accounts, homosexuals were among the most abused groups in the camps.

....

One avenue of survival available to some homosexuals was castration, which some criminal justice officials advocated as a way of "curing" sexual deviance. Homosexual defendants in criminal cases or concentration camps could agree to castration in exchange for lower sentences. Later, judges and SS camp officials could order castration without the consent of a homosexual prisoner.

Nazis interested in finding a "cure" for homosexuality expanded this program to include medical experimentation on homosexual inmates of concentration camps. These experiments caused illness, mutilation, and even death, and yielded no scientific knowledge.

White Owl
03-02-2011, 03:34 AM
I bet this community's talented skinners will have more historically correct markings to share within a day or two of release. Probably even less than a day, considering how easy this particular addition would be.

Richie
03-02-2011, 06:28 AM
I've expressed my views on this topic before. I support Maddox Games' decision to omit the swastika for fear of potential legal reprisal, though I do think the "boogey man" stigma that surrounds the swastika is ridiculous. The way in which the Nazis perverted the swastika is a historical reality and nothing can change that. It is what it is. I highly doubt many neo-Nazis are going to get meaningfully frenzied into a political fervor after buying a flight simulator that features the big scary swastika on the vertical stabilizer of a few planes.

With that said, I'd be fine if they just used the aforementioned diamond or an "X" as an alternative. It'd look okay from a distance. I'll probably just wait for the community to correct the issue.

If JG53 can paint over it so can I.

The Kraken
03-02-2011, 06:35 AM
Having a bogus replacement symbol on the respective spots would make it easier to replace it globally (if markings can be edited at all), instead of adding it to every single skin. But yes, no big deal otherwise and certainly a topic that's been covered from every possible angle :P

Skoshi Tiger
03-02-2011, 06:39 AM
This is not actually a good topic to make fun of:

Your right, sorry.

=WF=RAW
03-02-2011, 07:27 AM
I think it is just necessary to turn crooks of the cross to other direction. So we will got diametrally opposite meaning of this symbol (and this will automatically take away the forbiddeness) and still have "close to real" looks of german planes...
IMHO...

csThor
03-02-2011, 07:42 AM
Yet another swastika thread ... Take 1583754095 ... :roll:

BadAim
03-02-2011, 12:43 PM
The saddest part is I read it.......I need my COD! (swastikas or not)