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View Full Version : Air-Sea rescue mission, this would be AWESOME!


Flying Pencil
02-25-2011, 06:13 PM
The game will have AI versions of the Supermarine Walrus (pictured behind Bf-110) and possibly He-115 (some in-progress images posted in past).

Scenario:
You pilot is shot down over channel and is now playing in a rubber dinghy.
You "borrow" another avatar to mount a rescue, with an escort of fighters.

Success: you continue with your player character with little loss to player.
Fail: Loose lots of points, or the character.


Can extend to Online play too!
"Save Herr Galland!"

http://www.gamer.ru/system/attached_images/images/000/328/170/normal/16_IF.jpg?1298534820

Ltbear
02-26-2011, 11:53 AM
This could end up in a "chute" debate.

Doing BOB It was ordered to the RAF to shoot down German rescue planes because the british suspectet that the rescue planes was doing abit spyjobs....

This is like the debate in silenthunter about lifeboats, yes/no

Personaly i dont shoot "chutes", i never shoot a plane marked with green or red crosses dont bomb hospital ships. Didnt even bomb a fieldhospital in a online campaign. You cant avoid it 100%, but i dont use crosses as aiming points.

Im the type who leave a black smoking plane and dont use ammo on making sure hes going down. My job is to disrupt the enemy from doing hes job, not looking at an ace ladder...

Heliocon
02-26-2011, 01:43 PM
This could end up in a "chute" debate.

Doing BOB It was ordered to the RAF to shoot down German rescue planes because the british suspectet that the rescue planes was doing abit spyjobs....

This is like the debate in silenthunter about lifeboats, yes/no

Personaly i dont shoot "chutes", i never shoot a plane marked with green or red crosses dont bomb hospital ships. Didnt even bomb a fieldhospital in a online campaign. You cant avoid it 100%, but i dont use crosses as aiming points.

Im the type who leave a black smoking plane and dont use ammo on making sure hes going down. My job is to disrupt the enemy from doing hes job, not looking at an ace ladder...

Ace ladder?
You know, if I was a brit, I would shoot down rescue planes. I would also seriously think about shooting enemy parachuters, considering the fact that they were firebombing civilian targets/london and killing tens of thousands of people. If its strictly military on military then kicking someone when they are down is dishonorable and inhumane (ie parachute shooting, hitting field hospitals, shooting POW), once they start targeting non-combatants it changes things. (Or if I was alive at the time, I believe for me it would).

On the other hand if I was a german I would not shoot british shutes in the bob, but then again I wouldnt be participating in the bombing either.

Ltbear
02-26-2011, 08:46 PM
Ace ladder?
You know, if I was a brit, I would shoot down rescue planes. I would also seriously think about shooting enemy parachuters, considering the fact that they were firebombing civilian targets/london and killing tens of thousands of people. If its strictly military on military then kicking someone when they are down is dishonorable and inhumane (ie parachute shooting, hitting field hospitals, shooting POW), once they start targeting non-combatants it changes things. (Or if I was alive at the time, I believe for me it would).

On the other hand if I was a german I would not shoot british shutes in the bob, but then again I wouldnt be participating in the bombing either.

lol......Im talking about the virtual world, how i do my online gaming. And loads and loads of online players do look at the ace ladder (point whores) kill freaks etc....

In RL it was an order that gave permission to shoot down S and R planes...it didnt come from pilot to pilot but from high command.

I dont look at my actions and hold them against RL, and i dont use history books to explain my actions. Im not old enough to have lived ww2, i have books and games, but i dont use the books for my game ;)

LTbear

Sauf
02-26-2011, 09:04 PM
AFAIK It wasn't due to "Spying" it was due to the fact that any rescued pilot could be back in action against England. Went both ways I suppose, inevitable consequence of war, similar to when I met my wife, starts out ok but soon turns nasty :)

Heliocon
02-26-2011, 09:39 PM
lol......Im talking about the virtual world, how i do my online gaming. And loads and loads of online players do look at the ace ladder (point whores) kill freaks etc....

In RL it was an order that gave permission to shoot down S and R planes...it didnt come from pilot to pilot but from high command.

I dont look at my actions and hold them against RL, and i dont use history books to explain my actions. Im not old enough to have lived ww2, i have books and games, but i dont use the books for my game ;)

LTbear

Ah ok dw then, it was more personal musing then anything else.

@Sauf - lmao :P

robtek
02-26-2011, 11:23 PM
Yep, the following thing would be chute-shooting brit-pilots because they just get a new plane and get up again.
A sick thing, imho.

Heliocon
02-27-2011, 06:57 AM
...

Never heard of the "Para-slasher" :grin:

As Britain prepared for the final stand against invasion, one of the less orthodox weapons to be considered was the "Para-slasher".
It was invented by a WW1 veteran, Squadron Leader George Lowdell, Commending Officer of 7 EFTS at Desford in Leicestershire.
Effectively a farmer's scythe on an 8ft pole : it was designed to hinge down below a Tiger Moths fuselage and cut through a descending paratrooper's canopy,
or to harry forces on the ground. In the hands of Lowdell, an acknowledged pre-war 'crazy flying' expert, the Paraslasher proved surprisingly effective.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Paraslasher.jpg
...George Lowdell practising on a life-size canvas of Mussolini.............................The blade retracted......................................... .....................Lift the handle, push downwards to lower the blade.


...

Now thats slightly disturbing...

Novotny
02-27-2011, 07:22 AM
I think that's a great idea, especially for those of who like to fly DID campaigns.

Flying Pencil
02-28-2011, 06:37 PM
...

Never heard of the "Para-slasher" :grin:


That was against ParaTROOPERS, with guns and nades.
Not pilots trying to save thsemselves.

...for the most part.

Game should penalize para shooters, easy enough.

Rank Ladders or Squaddie in the water, no question it will add a new mission profile, and possibly the first ever where you mount a rescue mission for yourself! ;)

Skoshi Tiger
03-01-2011, 02:02 AM
That was against ParaTROOPERS, with guns and nades.
Not pilots trying to save thsemselves.

...for the most part.

Game should penalize para shooters, easy enough.

Rank Ladders or Squaddie in the water, no question it will add a new mission profile, and possibly the first ever where you mount a rescue mission for yourself! ;)

I don't think you should be penalised for Chute Shooting, though it would be good if the stats system kept track of interesting information like that.

I would be a way of a pilot gaining a reputation. With in the game.

"He's a chute shooter, maybe he's not the sort of person we want in our squad!"

Cheers!

TheGrunch
03-01-2011, 02:17 AM
I like that idea a lot, the idea of an overarching stat system that only kept track of little things like that rather than scores and suchlike. Gives you an idea of what kind of player someone is. Smoking/flaming/dead-engined planes destroyed (I don't know about that one, do we not want to *encourage* people to share kills?), chutes shot, friendly kills, etc. Maybe even stuff that gives you an idea of someone's skill and attitude without becoming a points contest, i.e. PKs or just overall gunnery accuracy, missions survived:missions killed. That would be a great way to encourage people to abandon points-hunting. Maybe as extreme as getting no points if you don't survive. The BoB was largely about the numbers of pilots, after all.

I/ZG52_Gaga
03-01-2011, 10:39 AM
The game will have AI versions of the Supermarine Walrus (pictured behind Bf-110) and possibly He-115 (some in-progress images posted in past).

Scenario:
You pilot is shot down over channel and is now playing in a rubber dinghy.
You "borrow" another avatar to mount a rescue, with an escort of fighters.

Success: you continue with your player character with little loss to player.
Fail: Loose lots of points, or the character.


Can extend to Online play too!
"Save Herr Galland!"

http://www.gamer.ru/system/attached_images/images/000/328/170/normal/16_IF.jpg?1298534820

This is going to be really helpfull in the event,

there is actually, an On-line War at some point in time.

(I can't imagine how because there are no sectors to advance in this scenario)

where you get the chance to include in all missions (both Sides) an A/C that can resque the downed pilot (s) flown by a Human.

At this point you would have to figure out the way this action gets acretited and the points received. (other wise almost no-one would fly the resque Flying Boat )

At any rate i'm all for the flying boats!

Can we have them anytime it is comfortable for the team please ?

Ps. Chute Killing is an extremely un-ethical action to take place especially in a simulated enviroment and IMO should be penalised.

Blackdog_kt
03-01-2011, 10:34 PM
I've spent time on an add-on catalina for FSX on a friend's PC and it's a downright beauty (it's also a mere 5km/h faster in cruise than my 15 year old nissan sunny, but that's another story :-P).

I've always liked the less well-known actions of the air war (for example, i can't wait to fly nightfighters or pathfinders at some time in the future) and i have a soft spot for flying boats and seaplanes so i'm all for the inclusion of such missions, if not on the stock campaigns then in the form of FMB triggers so we can use them in our own custom made missions and online scenarios.
We've all been in a DF server keeping track of available planes and pilots, imagine if we could pick up our downed pilots and replenish our teams counters ;)

Flying a complicated multi engined aircraft, low and slow amid terrible weather, trying to be as stealthy as possible, fighting both the enemy and the natural elements and to top if off, imagine it's done with a human crew in multiplayer, while trying to locate that rubber dinghy or looking for a U-boat periscope...it would be a totally different kind of fun but still great fun :grin:

ElAurens
03-01-2011, 11:38 PM
Ps. Chute Killing is an extremely un-ethical action to take place especially in a simulated enviroment and IMO should be penalised.


Nonsense. It's a game. You are shooting pixel bullets at pixel pilots. If you cannot distinguish between what happens online and the reality of war, then you are taking this far too seriously.

And besides, if you shoot them during the time between when they jump and their parachute opens then you are not "chute shooting". It's darn difficult, and great sport.

I/ZG52_Gaga
03-02-2011, 11:49 AM
1) It is a game (WWII Air combat Simulation)

2) You actually shoot at nothing (moving pixels)

- so far all this, is correct.


However, when playing On-line and at the other end there's another person,

then shooting at a bailing pilot or a crippled, soon to crash land, single, 2 or 4 engine AC,

Illustrates exactly how uncultured, disturbed, dysfunctional & antisocial someone is

Exactly because of the above 2 agreed upon thesis.

Why?

Because you will get your points anyway ..aren't you ...??

So what are you really after with this behaviour???

My answer to that is ... a revenge against society because of your
challenged state. (psychological - emotional - etc ...)

This kind of behaviour is one of a very dark matter ....



by the way all is OFF TOPIC guys !!!!!!

back to Flying Boats please eh?

Sauf
03-02-2011, 12:02 PM
Nonsense. It's a game. You are shooting pixel bullets at pixel pilots. If you cannot distinguish between what happens online and the reality of war, then you are taking this far too seriously.

And besides, if you shoot them during the time between when they jump and their parachute opens then you are not "chute shooting". It's darn difficult, and great sport.

lol

ElAurens
03-02-2011, 11:03 PM
This kind of behaviour is one of a very dark matter ....


:rolleyes:

Says the man (boy?) with SS in his sig line...

I do agree with you one one thing though, we do need the flying boats to be made player usable.

TheGrunch
03-02-2011, 11:47 PM
S! is just the generic online greeting/mark of respect, though, i.e. salute!

ElAurens
03-03-2011, 12:42 AM
Grunch, I'be been at this since December of 2001, I know what S! means.

I get a little put off seeing SS together in the sig of a player who also has obvious affinity towards things WW2 and German.

Sorry for being old fashioned like that.

And I also don't appreciate being lectured by the same fellow, who thinks it's perfectly OK to fry someone in their burning virtual cockpit, but it's somehow a sign of mental disorder to "shoot" them out side their "aircraft".

Political correctness is running amok everywhere it seems.

Now, back to matters of the game.

Hunden
03-03-2011, 12:59 AM
Nonsense. It's a game. You are shooting pixel bullets at pixel pilots. If you cannot distinguish between what happens online and the reality of war, then you are taking this far too seriously.

And besides, if you shoot them during the time between when they jump and their parachute opens then you are not "chute shooting". It's darn difficult, and great sport.

I dont get what the problem is with shooting a bailing pilot in real life is, let alone in this game. The whole point is to kill or be killed, you want to bail out in front of me your going to get a bullet in the ass. If I could be certain not to damage my aircraft I would save ammo and run into him with my prop, but thats just me, a bloody American.:grin:

zauii
03-03-2011, 01:27 AM
Ace ladder?
You know, if I was a brit, I would shoot down rescue planes. I would also seriously think about shooting enemy parachuters, considering the fact that they were firebombing civilian targets/london and killing tens of thousands of people. If its strictly military on military then kicking someone when they are down is dishonorable and inhumane (ie parachute shooting, hitting field hospitals, shooting POW), once they start targeting non-combatants it changes things. (Or if I was alive at the time, I believe for me it would).

On the other hand if I was a german I would not shoot british shutes in the bob, but then again I wouldnt be participating in the bombing either.

Thats easy to say with the perspective you've now, truth to be told if you were a german soldier you would have a completely different view and what you would/wouldnt do no one will ever know.

Mauloch
03-03-2011, 04:59 AM
It is a game, so what someone does in the game may or my not be what they would do in real life. However, what you do in the game or say on the forms will still give others an opinion of you for the good or bad, that we have control over.

I personally don't think the game should be made the judge of that point wise, or any other wise infact because every action we do will leave an impression on others seeing it. That should be enough imo. ;-)

Kikuchiyo
03-03-2011, 05:32 AM
Wow, really? This devolved into whether or not doing something in the virtual world of escapism is symbolic of how they would behave in the real world? That's a fairly irrational argument. I would never fight in a war irl. Hell I disagree with current wars, but I do enjoy playing war games. It's an escape from reality as a matter of fact many studies have shown that those that play these violent games actually have fewer incidents of real life violence than those without the outlets.

It's a silly argument on a moot point. I like the idea of search and rescue missions. I don't really like a point system though, and that kind of stat tracking just tends to create undue friction in the game. I do like the idea of K/D, accuracy, and possibly assists but keeping track of arbitrarily assigned points is silly and just leads to infighting.

As far as how you conduct yourself online. Do what feels the most fun to you. If you don't like someone's play style don't play with 'em problem solved.

Skoshi Tiger
03-03-2011, 06:48 AM
Well, I'm more of the mind if you don't like someone shooting you in your parrachute, camp out above their airfield and use selective vulching tactics to show your disaproval.

You could even get your message accross with a open message of "Take that you dirty Chute Stooter!!" as your bomb is about to hit!

I'm sure some will find it petty and childish behavour, but revenge is a dish best served cold!

:)

Cheers!

TheGrunch
03-03-2011, 07:08 AM
Grunch, I'be been at this since December of 2001, I know what S! means.

I get a little put off seeing SS together in the sig of a player who also has obvious affinity towards things WW2 and German.
Yes, I assumed you would, I'd just rather not assume that someone who flies and appreciates German aircraft is a closet Nazi, that's all. I understand the concern, though.
For the record, I agree with you...my dad would never play FPS games because they involve shooting people close up, but he'll play Il-2 for hours. It's a perspective I could never get, that shooting someone in a machine hurtling through the air is somehow "cleaner" than shooting them on foot with a rifle. That idea that the air war was chivalrous, which most veterans would disagree with I expect. Nothing chivalrous about being killed by someone you never saw.

Gribbers
03-03-2011, 10:06 AM
I guess there was a certain mark of respect between both sides when fighting, especially when it came to bailing out.

Being a Brit, I for one would have been enraged at the German's for what they were doing to our cities/towns...and would have done whatever it took to take them out the sky (including any dirty tactics), however, I wouldn't have shot a 'chuting' German...mainly through fear of reprisals when it was my turn to bail out!

When parachuting, one is completely defensless...it's no different to shooting a man with his hands tied behind his back...there's no honour or skill involved whatsoever, and besides, who'd want to waste ammo on some poor soul who's most likely going to spend the next 3+ hours floating in the Atlantic/English Channel wondering whether anyone's coming to pick them and take them home, or pick them up and take them to a PoW camp.

Then again, it is just a game...er, I mean simulation...simulated game, so what the heck. :grin:

I/ZG52_Gaga
03-03-2011, 12:30 PM
Grunch, I'be been at this since December of 2001, I know what S! means.

I get a little put off seeing SS together in the sig of a player who also has obvious affinity towards things WW2 and German.

Sorry for being old fashioned like that.

And I also don't appreciate being lectured by the same fellow, who thinks it's perfectly OK to fry someone in their burning virtual cockpit, but it's somehow a sign of mental disorder to "shoot" them out side their "aircraft".

Political correctness is running amok everywhere it seems.

Now, back to matters of the game.


LOL I Love you man!! You crack me up!

Check ZG52 info & rules ... see for your self ... I'm pretty sure you will apologize..

not that it is really deeded anyway cos i understand your concerns plus i keep no grudge :)

It is a very small read indeed ... no time waister .... :)

http://www.zg52.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37


Best Regards

ElAurens
03-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Gaga, if I misread the meaning of the 2 S in your sig line then I apologize for that.

I/ZG52_Gaga
03-03-2011, 12:42 PM
As i said no need to !! We are ALL GOOD :)

you read my squad's rules eh? :P

See not a control freak as you would expect ...LOL

yellonet
03-03-2011, 05:56 PM
Game should penalize para shooters, easy enough.Why? If one does not want to risk getting shot down, don't fly at all.
It's more fun if you need to be careful when and where you jump.

Novotny
03-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Contentious stuff, this 'shooting men dangling from parachutes' business.

I'd rather we didn't lose sight of the fact that this is a game and at some point, we have to decide where to draw the line in simulating the business of war - which is, of course, killing.

Take Red Orchestra, for example. It can be fairly gruesome, and the scream of a wounded man can sound pretty harrowing. I for one am grateful that it's but a brief shout, and they don't go onto simulate the agonizing slow deaths that many combatants suffered, otherwise the soundtrack to many rounds would be mostly the pitiful crying of the mortally wounded.

As I said, you have to draw the line somewhere, or it ceases to be entertaining for many.

yellonet
03-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Contentious stuff, this 'shooting men dangling from parachutes' business.

I'd rather we didn't lose sight of the fact that this is a game and at some point, we have to decide where to draw the line in simulating the business of war - which is, of course, killing.

Take Red Orchestra, for example. It can be fairly gruesome, and the scream of a wounded man can sound pretty harrowing. I for one am grateful that it's but a brief shout, and they don't go onto simulate the agonizing slow deaths that many combatants suffered, otherwise the soundtrack to many rounds would be mostly the pitiful crying of the mortally wounded.

As I said, you have to draw the line somewhere, or it ceases to be entertaining for many.
The bottom line is that this is a game and that in this and many other games it's fun to shoot at people, because it's a game.
And even if there were a difference between shooting a person in a plane or hanging from a parachute in real life that doesn't necessarily mean that someone playing that game have to care about that doubtful difference.

Novotny
03-03-2011, 06:56 PM
It wasn't a doubtful difference to the men at the time, according to their memoirs.

Anyway, you can argue it back and forth as much as you like. Won't make a blind bit of difference to what we get in the end. Personally, I won't do it in game. I don't much care if others want to.

yellonet
03-03-2011, 07:28 PM
It wasn't a doubtful difference to the men at the time, according to their memoirs.The result is still the same.
Either way, killing a man is a monstrous thing, taking something that you have no right to and that no one can ever bring back. Whether or not that fellow human is in an aircraft or not doesn't change that fact one bit.

Personally, I won't do it in game. I don't much care if others want to.Why don't you, if you don't mind? Is it because you role-play and try to get into the spirit of things or some other reasons?

Novotny
03-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Well, to me it's all about the air-combat. I want to fight against and best other pilots and planes. Once their aircraft is out of the fight, I wonder how much ammo/fuel I have left and how I can be best effective with the resources I have left to me.

It's just how I like to play it. I suppose to a certain extent, we all role-play, in that we're flying representations of 1940s aircraft in a representation of 1940s air warfare. I suppose to some, it is just a video game and the planes could be pink and the environment could be the surface of Mars, but I like the setting.

I'm not unaware of how some pilots in particular theatres thought the killing of pilots a valid tactic. It's just not something I really want to spend my spare time pretending to do.

yellonet
03-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Well, to me it's all about the air-combat. I want to fight against and best other pilots and planes. Once their aircraft is out of the fight, I wonder how much ammo/fuel I have left and how I can be best effective with the resources I have left to me.

It's just how I like to play it. I suppose to a certain extent, we all role-play, in that we're flying representations of 1940s aircraft in a representation of 1940s air warfare. I suppose to some, it is just a video game and the planes could be pink and the environment could be the surface of Mars, but I like the setting.

I'm not unaware of how some pilots in particular theatres thought the killing of pilots a valid tactic. It's just not something I really want to spend my spare time pretending to do.I see, thanks.

ElAurens
03-03-2011, 09:53 PM
The only time I do it (chute shooting) is when I know it's some big mouth "ace" that has been talking smack in chat all evening long, or team killers, or similar situations.

Some players just deserve it.

I would never go out of my way to shoot a player in their parachute just to do it. That said I don't think getting upset over it on these boards is really a big deal.

Now, how about a flyable Walrus?

TheGrunch
03-03-2011, 10:19 PM
Now, how about a flyable Walrus?
The day I can buy these (http://www.crecy.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=12&products_id=183) to get some idea of flying the aircraft in CoD is the day I will be a happy man. :-P