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Kubiszko
02-23-2011, 08:52 AM
Hello

I would like to know if I overlooked something, or Bf109 will not have slots?
If this is true, it means a big mistake :)

Thanks

melkarth
02-23-2011, 09:36 AM
Your suggestion is inconceivable in a state-of-art simulation like CoD. I rather think we still don't have any screenshot of a slow-flying 109 with extended slots.

Look at the shape of the leading edge of the wing, in the attached image. You can see a discontinuity in the pixels, I think that slot is clearly retracted.

Matt255
02-23-2011, 09:53 AM
I rather think we still don't have any screenshot of a slow-flying 109 with extended slots.
Well, we have screenshots of 109's sitting on the airfield, with retracted slats.

I wondered about this aswell, but i'm convinced that they won't release CloD without slats on the 109 and 110, that would be very weird.

Kubiszko
02-23-2011, 10:21 AM
Your suggestion is inconceivable in a state-of-art simulation like CoD. I rather think we still don't have any screenshot of a slow-flying 109 with extended slots.

Look at the shape of the leading edge of the wing, in the attached image. You can see a discontinuity in the pixels, I think that slot is clearly retracted.

the screenshot I have not seen any extended slots,even in a band

JG52Krupi
02-23-2011, 10:29 AM
Sorry to be picky but it should be slats not slots :D

melkarth
02-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Well, we have screenshots of 109's sitting on the airfield, with retracted slats.

You've really got a point here. If this image from year 2005 is for real, the 109 has slats. The retracted position when sitting on the airfield can be a bug. :confused:

Please, we need a picture of an Emil with her highly addictive slats wide open!

JG52Krupi
02-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Come on guys do u really think they forgot about the slats lol

JG53Frankyboy
02-23-2011, 11:18 AM
......... The retracted position when sitting on the airfield can be a bug. ..

google some 109E pictures siting on the ground.... you would be surprised ;)

And JG52Krupi is absolutly on spot :D

melkarth
02-23-2011, 11:35 AM
google some 109E pictures siting on the ground.... you would be surprised ;)

Touché! No slats on ground. So, that was a bug in IL-2, I'm afraid. :o

JG53Frankyboy
02-23-2011, 11:41 AM
-> http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/systems/control/slats/slats.htm

melkarth
02-23-2011, 11:55 AM
-> http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/systems/control/slats/slats.htm

Wow! I was thinking these slats were just like those in an Airbus. :oops:

So it does not matter if they are in or out, they are free and independent the one from the other.

JG52Krupi
02-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Wow! I was thinking these slats were just like those in an Airbus. :oops:

So it does not matter if they are in or out, they are free and independent the one from the other.

Rofl, u give messerchmit too much credit if u thought they were mechanically driven, it's my understanding that they are operated by speed/pressure.

They would need a massive camber/airfoil to have the space to fit a mechanical design found on Boeing or Airbus aircraft

Matt255
02-23-2011, 12:32 PM
google some 109E pictures siting on the ground.... you would be surprised ;)
They pushed the slats back in to prevent dust etc. from entering that gap. Who would push the slats in in CloD? I don't think there's a ground-crew around.

So still, most of the time in Clod (not in reality), the slats should be out when the plane is on the ground, atleast when it just landed. Of course in the screenshots we've seen so far, the planes are about to take-off.

But whatever, let's wait and see.

melkarth
02-23-2011, 12:34 PM
I hope they have modelized the "crack" sound at the verge of stalling, as it was in old versions of IL-2. That was funny.

Richie
02-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Can't believe you guys a stressing about this. If it's any consolation I've got over 900 pics of 109s in my folder and there are some 109s parked with slats retracted.

fruitbat
02-23-2011, 08:28 PM
i'm more concerned there seems to be no E1's.

now thats just odd.

pancake
02-23-2011, 08:47 PM
E4 for future expansion? :?

robtek
02-23-2011, 08:52 PM
E4 -> E3 with MG-FF/M instead MG-FF -> no optical difference!
Canopy was a different change, nothing to do with E3 or E4

pancake
02-23-2011, 09:07 PM
I suppose if that is so, the E4 will be maybe be added as an extra when the the optimizing and releasing furore passes. Being greedy i'd like all the major 109's as well as the several versions of the two british fighters we will be getting.

PS, also I would like to erroneously claim to have shot down some HE 100's. But that's a diffrent story.

JG53Frankyboy
02-23-2011, 09:10 PM
and the MG-FF/M is already moddeled in CoD, Bf110C-4 and C-7 were armed with these weapons too...

Strike
02-23-2011, 09:33 PM
Rofl, u give messerchmit too much credit if u thought they were mechanically driven, it's my understanding that they are operated by speed/pressure.

They would need a massive camber/airfoil to have the space to fit a mechanical design found on Boeing or Airbus aircraft

You are right. Airbus/Boeing designs have "LEF's" (Leading Edge Flaps) that extend mechanically.

The SLATS that are used on many smaller planes today and the Me-109 for instance, are automatically spring-loaded/air-pressure operated. When the angle of attack increases, or the airspeed is low (meaning to sustain level flight you need a higher AoA) the center of lift(or center of pressure) moves towards the leading edge of the wing! This decreases the airpressure around the upper side of the leading edge, and allows the mechanical springs to push the slat out. The wing effectively has two leading edges now, each starting off with a fresh boundry layer (the layer of wind which is closest to the wing, if it's laminar flow you're good, but turbulent flow will increase drag and can induce a stall)

So really, the slats are springloaded to open, but I don't know the exact design of the messerschmitt, nor the springforce they set to the slats to keep them from stowing. Either way it's the combination of speed and airpressure around the leading edge that allows it to deploy or stow.

On the center of lift topic: If your airspeed increases, the center of pressure moves aft and as you approach supersonic the dreaded tuck-under effect occurs. The center of lift moves behind the Center of gravity, causing a violent pitch down which in turn increases airspeed and keeps the pitch-down tendency. This is noticeable with the BI-1 or BI-6 where you approach 700-800km/h and loose control to a massive pitch down.

robtek
02-23-2011, 10:11 PM
Sorry for OT, but the problem of the p-38 was the turbulence from the center fuselage which rendered the elevator useless at high speeds.

Strike
02-23-2011, 10:53 PM
Sorry for OT, but the problem of the p-38 was the turbulence from the center fuselage which rendered the elevator useless at high speeds.

hey you're absolutely right.. I forgot about that! But nevertheless, the tuck-under effect applies for nearly all planes with relaxed stability going too fast.

WTE_Galway
02-23-2011, 10:58 PM
So it does not matter if they are in or out, they are free and independent the one from the other.

Absolutely and asymmetric deployment of slats did occur and even in some cases caused fatalities.

Khamsin
02-24-2011, 07:41 AM
The SLATS that are used on many smaller planes today and the Me-109 for instance, are automatically spring-loaded/air-pressure operated. When the angle of attack increases, or the airspeed is low (meaning to sustain level flight you need a higher AoA) the center of lift(or center of pressure) moves towards the leading edge of the wing! This decreases the airpressure around the upper side of the leading edge, and allows the mechanical springs to push the slat out. .................................................. .

So really, the slats are springloaded to open, but I don't know the exact design of the messerschmitt, nor the springforce they set to the slats to keep them from stowing. Either way it's the combination of speed and airpressure around the leading edge that allows it to deploy or stow.

Sorry, but no springs on the Bf-109 slat design .... purely air pressure driven.

Which is why you'll see some photos of 109's on the ground with slats retracted, and some with slats extended. If they were spring driven, the slats would always be extended on the ground, wouldn't they?

*Buzzsaw*
02-24-2011, 07:48 AM
Salute

To suggest the 109's in CoD are not going to have slats is nonsense.

IL-2 is ten years old and Oleg modelled slats on the 109's in it.

Why should he suddenly decide to go ahistorical and not include them?

Silly thread.

JG52Krupi
02-24-2011, 08:11 AM
I'm surprised it's on page 3 but to be fair it's no longer discussing the OP questions any more :)

Strike
02-24-2011, 08:41 AM
Sorry, but no springs on the Bf-109 slat design .... purely air pressure driven.

Which is why you'll see some photos of 109's on the ground with slats retracted, and some with slats extended. If they were spring driven, the slats would always be extended on the ground, wouldn't they?

I agree with your theory, like I said, I'm no 109 expert. However I am familiar with pure aerodynamic slats. I saw a french design during my training that was easily pushable to either retracted or open, like you say about the 109.

I just believe that, for maintenance purposes and wearing, there should be some spring to "dampen" the movement of the slats so that they don't violently slam open or shut. Anyone could tell you that this will fatigue the design unless there was some buffer or spring to soften the movement. Anyways, there seems to be no springs forcing the slats to open.

WTE_Galway
02-24-2011, 10:35 AM
I agree with your theory, like I said, I'm no 109 expert. However I am familiar with pure aerodynamic slats. I saw a french design during my training that was easily pushable to either retracted or open, like you say about the 109.

I just believe that, for maintenance purposes and wearing, there should be some spring to "dampen" the movement of the slats so that they don't violently slam open or shut. Anyone could tell you that this will fatigue the design unless there was some buffer or spring to soften the movement. Anyways, there seems to be no springs forcing the slats to open.

By all accounts the109 slats actually did, on occasion, violently slam open and shut.

Kwiatek
02-24-2011, 07:16 PM
Well it is really funny but i didnt see in any screenshot or videos from BoB slats in 109 or 110. I watched all screenshots from 2008 until now and i didnt saw any open slats in these planes even in turns, take off etc.

It start to be funny :)

melkarth
02-24-2011, 09:10 PM
Well it is really funny but i didnt see in any screenshot or videos from BoB slats in 109 or 110. I watched all screenshots from 2008 until now and i didnt saw any open slats in these planes even in turns, take off etc.

It start to be funny :)

I can hear those damned air-pressure slats laughing at all of us, in the voice of Vincent Price. Time for an accurate screenshot from Mother Russia? "пожалуйста" = "please".