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View Full Version : Sim-pits, some with 6DOF movement.


Flying Pencil
02-23-2011, 05:23 AM
A lot of home sim-pits are starting to come out, from simple to highly complex, such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdKo9PYwGaU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3F1kBHlqU&NR=1

Has Oleg considered supporting these in near future?

White Owl
02-23-2011, 06:22 AM
I wonder what my downstairs neighbors would think was going on when they heard that thing thrashing around.

JAMF
02-23-2011, 10:15 AM
Force Dynamics 401:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJoi-1g0IzI


Festo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvG5rxVeY5M


And "Motion Sim" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQLF06rwzVE

http://www.motion-sim.com/

Sternjaeger
02-23-2011, 12:04 PM
it's all very cool and kinda immersive, but still far from reality.. as discussed a few threads ago, there's no way at the moment to simulate G-loads, the only simulator with a partial G-load simulation (3G sustained) is the DESDEMONA one, but it's a bit expensive to buy and run :rolleyes:

JAMF
02-23-2011, 12:54 PM
..there's no way at the moment to simulate G-loads.. We'll just have to be happy with "approximate" to fool the brain then.

vicinity
02-23-2011, 01:04 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9386740.stm

Having one would be a dream come true. One day...

JG52Krupi
02-23-2011, 01:36 PM
it's all very cool and kinda immersive, but still far from reality.. as discussed a few threads ago, there's no way at the moment to simulate G-loads, the only simulator with a partial G-load simulation (3G sustained) is the DESDEMONA one, but it's a bit expensive to buy and run :rolleyes:

Attach one of these to a g force simulating rotating machine that pilots use :D

Sternjaeger
02-23-2011, 02:24 PM
Attach one of these to a g force simulating rotating machine that pilots use :D

well u would need an intelligent one that can accelerate and decelerate according to your action.. and you would still need a rotating head that could help you simulate lateral and negative Gs..

considering the kind of rotation you need to simulate 9Gs you'd need a helluva large basement (roughly a square the length of a basketball court), a lot of energy and a doctor to monitor your antics.. uh and if you were fit it would help too ;)

Im afraid we'll have to settle for a suitable compromise for at least the next 10 years lol

ghodan
02-23-2011, 05:12 PM
I am already super happy if there is official gauge/instrument output like FXS.
I did not really like the "do it yourself" devicelink way of Il2 and no MP support for gauge output in the old il2.

I asked in a separate thread, and in other existing once but zero answer on gauge output.... :mad:

speculum jockey
02-23-2011, 05:13 PM
Support for simpits would be another "feather in CoD's cap" but realistically probably not going to happen initially given the small dev team, rush to ready the game for release, and the fact that Simpit users are a part of a tiny, tiny, tiny niche.

Flight sims, small market.
Combat flight sims, even smaller market.
People buying CoD, very tiny market.
People willing to drop a few thousand on a sim pit, I can't even comprehend how tiny a market share that would be.

I don't see how they would ever get the money back from implementing it given the dev costs (even if they did it in a week).

Still, maybe we'll see it.

Flying Pencil
02-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Still, maybe we'll see it.

We already see it.
You are severely underestimating how many of these are out their, usually for console racing games, but consider...

1. You don't need 3 Gees of force to trick the mind to think it is experainceing 3G. With vision restricted to the display (with glasses or large screen), as little as 1.4G would be plenty.

2. I have seen effective SimPits using as few as 2 actuators, and home built ones that use car window motors, so a crude SimPit can be below $500.

The speed and variety of new SimPits being introduced is telling. Best not miss the bandwagon.


(Would not be surprised if CoD gets a few more sales becuase some players are specifically looking for sims that support SimPits.)

speculum jockey
02-23-2011, 07:40 PM
We already see it.

So it's already implemented into CoD? I didn't hear about that.

(Would not be surprised if CoD gets a few more sales becuase some players are specifically looking for sims that support SimPits.)

To make it worth while to implement in the game you have to take into account the cost to code it then subtract the money you will make by people buying it (who would not have bothered if it didn't support simpits).

If you have a positive number, then it was worth it to develop.

Codex
02-23-2011, 09:00 PM
Support for simpits would be another "feather in CoD's cap" but realistically probably not going to happen initially given the small dev team, rush to ready the game for release, and the fact that Simpit users are a part of a tiny, tiny, tiny niche.

Flight sims, small market.
Combat flight sims, even smaller market.
People buying CoD, very tiny market.
People willing to drop a few thousand on a sim pit, I can't even comprehend how tiny a market share that would be.

I don't see how they would ever get the money back from implementing it given the dev costs (even if they did it in a week).

Still, maybe we'll see it.

I wouldn't be so sure. Oleg has provided support for simpits since IL-2 via "device link".

I can't see the videos posted on this thread at the moment due to my work's firewalls so they may already have been shown, but there is a Swiss company that makes a simpit for IL-2 right now.

http://www.simaviatik.com/en/index.php?show=me109

... and don't forget sim sites selling heaps of components where you can build your own.

http://www.simw.com/hardware.html

Hell my boss is building a 737 replica cockpit. He's just forked out $1500 for a 737 control yoke for his project, and actually built a second garage for it. I do agree that we're in a very small niche market but there are people out the who are willing to spend the $$$ to build their own simpits.

Azimech
02-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Hmmm I still have some Citro├źn BX suspension struts lying around, hydraulic pumps and pressure regulators/volume buffers. I could modify the ride height regulators to lose the built-in delay. With 80 bar at my disposal, I could create my own solution.

Sternjaeger
02-24-2011, 12:32 AM
We already see it.
You are severely underestimating how many of these are out their, usually for console racing games, but consider...

1. You don't need 3 Gees of force to trick the mind to think it is experainceing 3G. With vision restricted to the display (with glasses or large screen), as little as 1.4G would be plenty.

2. I have seen effective SimPits using as few as 2 actuators, and home built ones that use car window motors, so a crude SimPit can be below $500.

The speed and variety of new SimPits being introduced is telling. Best not miss the bandwagon.


(Would not be surprised if CoD gets a few more sales becuase some players are specifically looking for sims that support SimPits.)

Flying Pencil, you're missing the point completely, it's not about tricking the body you're under a G load (which is impossible anyway).. getting under physical strain from G force simply wears you out.

Even a well trained pilot couldn't resist for 30 mins of intense dogfight like we do sometimes in the sim.. once the adrenalin rush is done, there's only this immense force that is doing its best to make you faint. If you never flown in an aerobatic plane or high performance warbird it's hard to explain. It's not just about the illusion of movement, how much you pitch/yaw/roll, it's feeling every fibre of your body, your guts, your limbs, moving in the wrong direction..

Imagine flying a 2 hours mission where you actually had a 15 minutes scramble.. after that you're flying back, sweaty, tired and under constant stress, and you get bounced by more fighters.. Most of us will probably look for a fight, but in reality most pilot would have hit the deck and run for home.. Pilot fatigue is a huge factor which unfortunately is hard (if not impossible) to simulate, that's why you see AI planes or other online players doing stuff in the game that you would hardly see happening in real life..

we comfortably sit on our swing chair, sipping coke or munching away some junk food while playing, maybe doing other things while playing, but sitting in a cockpit for hours, the engine noise vibrating in your body, the deafening sound, the adrenaline, the painful oxygen breathing, UV light filtering through the canopy.. we'll probably never be able to simulate all this stuff.. and I know that many will say "hey but I'm not looking for that, I want to enjoy the experience", then you're not simulating, you're playing a kind of parody of what it really was in WW2..

WTE_Galway
02-24-2011, 03:11 AM
Flying Pencil, you're missing the point completely, it's not about tricking the body you're under a G load (which is impossible anyway).. getting under physical strain from G force simply wears you out.

Even a well trained pilot couldn't resist for 30 mins of intense dogfight like we do sometimes in the sim.. once the adrenalin rush is done, there's only this immense force that is doing its best to make you faint. If you never flown in an aerobatic plane or high performance warbird it's hard to explain. It's not just about the illusion of movement, how much you pitch/yaw/roll, it's feeling every fibre of your body, your guts, your limbs, moving in the wrong direction..

Imagine flying a 2 hours mission where you actually had a 15 minutes scramble.. after that you're flying back, sweaty, tired and under constant stress, and you get bounced by more fighters.. Most of us will probably look for a fight, but in reality most pilot would have hit the deck and run for home.. Pilot fatigue is a huge factor which unfortunately is hard (if not impossible) to simulate, that's why you see AI planes or other online players doing stuff in the game that you would hardly see happening in real life..

we comfortably sit on our swing chair, sipping coke or munching away some junk food while playing, maybe doing other things while playing, but sitting in a cockpit for hours, the engine noise vibrating in your body, the deafening sound, the adrenaline, the painful oxygen breathing, UV light filtering through the canopy.. we'll probably never be able to simulate all this stuff.. and I know that many will say "hey but I'm not looking for that, I want to enjoy the experience", then you're not simulating, you're playing a kind of parody of what it really was in WW2..

The solution is to place the pilots in real aircraft that link up to the game and emulate the movement of the aircraft in the sim :D

Flying Pencil
02-24-2011, 02:28 PM
So it's already implemented into CoD? I didn't hear about that.

To make it worth while to implement in the game you have to take into account the cost to code it then subtract the money you will make by people buying it (who would not have bothered if it didn't support simpits).

If you have a positive number, then it was worth it to develop.

You misunderstand. I am (and it sounded like you where) talking about the growing prevalence of SimPits.

Sustained support of a features needs profits.

But when any company is on the bleeding edge they must be prepared to sacrifice some funds to make or support a product, offer to customers, and see if they bite.
The real trick is the potential market/return on investment if successful, but that is as easy as looking in a crystal ball.

Flying Pencil, you're missing the point completely, it's not about tricking the body you're under a G load (which is impossible anyway).. getting under physical strain from G force simply wears you out.


No.
If you want to feel G, get in airplane.
If you want *some* feeling of motion, then you have a simpit.

The huge simulators are not giant exercise machines, they are their to *simulate* the motions of the aircraft, not recreate it.