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Rodolphe
02-16-2011, 05:03 PM
...

Screens extracted from videos available on this link.

http://www.uaf.kiev.ua/forum/index.php?showtopic=927



Ju87

Blurred instruments (Drehzahlmesser, ladedruckmesser... ) on the front panel.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Inst.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTWoYBe2NYA&feature=player_embedded


Bf109

Missing wire and spring on the canopy restraining system.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Spring.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBFL6C2mMUw&feature=player_embedded#at=47



Bf110

Cone shape on the red ball canopy handle.

Remaining transparency of the Clock support plate.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cone.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmlVWcrSPz0&feature=player_embedded



Hurricane

1. Missing RPM indicator.

2. Graphic bug around the canopy frame.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Gyro.jpg


3. Love the Artificial Horizon spinning up Gyro sequence during the engine start. :grin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3qXFUNBLKc&feature=player_embedded



...

Winger
02-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Sorry but all i can say is that youre a pretty poor soul if you got nothing else to do with your time but searching a BETA for its bugs.

Sorry. I just dont get it!

Winger

Qpassa
02-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Sorry but all i can say is that youre a pretty poor soul if you got nothing else to do with your time but searching a BETA for its bugs.

Sorry. I just dont get it!

Winger

I think his post is useful, maybe developers havent detected this bugs

Winger
02-16-2011, 05:28 PM
I think his post is useful, maybe developers havent detected this bugs

Youre right, thats also a perspective to look at it. Its just so many people moaning about the game will suck before its even out. Getting sick of that.

Winger

Pierre@
02-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Dear poor soul,... Err!... I mean Dear Rodolphe,
Thanks for highlighting these flaws. You have good eyesight :)
Minor bugs but easy to fix (maybe?) before CoD goes gold!

ElAurens
02-16-2011, 05:48 PM
:rolleyes:

Nitpicking a beta.

Amazing.

Go outside and get a breath of fresh air son.

You need it.

Biggs
02-16-2011, 05:51 PM
:rolleyes:

Nitpicking a beta.

Amazing.

Go outside and get a breath of fresh air son.

You need it.

+1

Pierre@
02-16-2011, 06:04 PM
...
(...)
Hurricane
(...)
2. Graphic bug around the canopy frame.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Gyro.jpg

...

I thought this was some rubber sealant on canopy of a previously undocumented stratospheric version of the Hurri! Seriously, wasn't tested an experimental " biplane" version? So, why not?

:)

Sven
02-16-2011, 06:08 PM
I think it's actually you guys that have become brainwashed since the whole "Whining hype" started.

It's good to see detailed criticism, maybe these issues are indeed not noticed so far by the devs, that would help the sim, and therefore help us all. With all the stuff the devs have going on I'd imagine they sometimes miss certain, often minor, bugs or other issues. As we have so little official ingame videos, this seems to be almost the only way to help Oleg and co.

Wolf_Rider
02-16-2011, 06:39 PM
help him out? more like driving him to drink :(

Azimech
02-16-2011, 06:55 PM
Sorry but I just CANNOT imagine the devs have missed those things.

If I were a developer of a game, and a month before release I would find a topic like this, my response would be: "So?"

Rodolpho, there are TWENTY-TWO people working on this sim and they have been doing so for years. Do you really think you have spotted those things and they have not? Ever heard of the word "arrogance"?

robtek
02-16-2011, 07:36 PM
I think it arrogance speaking from the people who accuse him of "whining"!!!
These are documented flaws, correctly delivered.
And yes, there are ONLY 22 people working on this huge project.
If ALL those faults are already known -> fine, nothing lost, but if only 1 of those faults has been missed by the team -> honor to him!

Azimech
02-16-2011, 08:14 PM
I don't agree. If you're betatesting a product, devs are asking you for every bug or glitch you can find.

But we have no insight in the status of the product, we are outsiders. Even if we buy the product we will never know certain aspects of how this or any company runs it's business.
We don't know what build this is, even if the name suggests it's recent. There is only one thing we know for sure, and that the version we saw on the screen isn't finished. These films were uploaded by someone visiting an event, like the other guy probably without Oleg's or Luthier's consent. And if I were Oleg, I wouldn't risk installing my latest build there.

If Oleg wanted us to be involved in every aspect of the development, including which builds are being shown or tested where, we would have known.

I know the motive was pure helpfulness, that's great! And Rodolphe's knowledge and eye for detail are really impressive! But I feel that this time it misses the target.

GnigruH
02-16-2011, 08:22 PM
Nitpicking a beta.

Amazing.

Go outside and get a breath of fresh air son.

You need it.

That's the point. You don't know the build and if those bugs are already solved.
Just a waste of time imo.
And I'm sure that things like missing wire and spring are not the most important for devs atm.

Vyper
02-16-2011, 08:58 PM
Sorry, but I think posting "bugs" you see on someone else's youtube posting of an unknown beta version is just in poor taste. Very poor taste. And that is as nice as I can say that.

Looking forward to your CONSTRUCTIVE threads once the game goes live where you can post bugs from the released version on your own system.

Tacoma74
02-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Another thread gone down the toilet. I sure hope things change after release around here. I mean c'mon.... If you don't agree with the guy than why flame him? Save yourself the time and move on. Maybe, just maybe this is an issue that will be brought to light. Honestly none of you know for sure, so give him some space.

Azimech
02-16-2011, 09:30 PM
Maybe you're right Tacoma, but if this was my product and my forum, I'd appreciate it if someone emailed me first with telling he found these films, and he'd ask if they are relevant.
Imagine if someone made us believe (we'd be fools) these films are from the final, the amount of upheaval it would've created. And more important: negative responses from the games media and as a result, poor sales. The release date is very soon and a traveling idea that the game would be released riddled with bugs is a potential nightmare for them - remember the reaction to the leaked beta movies. But maybe I'm a bit too negative myself.

Tacoma74
02-16-2011, 10:05 PM
Well i have to say, you make sense. I do agree with you there, but I was just sticking up him. I could just see a lynching about to happen lol But whats new i guess... :rolleyes:

123-Wulf-123
02-16-2011, 11:31 PM
Dear god....what sad gits you are nit-picking Betas :rolleyes:

Speechless really. :roll:

speculum jockey
02-17-2011, 12:16 AM
Someone actually posts an insightful post pointing out mistake he found and you guys are flaming him?

I guess the only discussion we are allowed to have on these boards is about distant aircraft pixel size and the colour of the grass.

Don't mind these sperglords, I'm sure Oleg appreciates someone who knows how to bring to attention perceived mistakes.

p.s. "nitpicking a beta" . . . Ideally you're supposed to point out mistakes before the game ships. Oleg has two options, fix them or ignore them. I'm sure he's a big enough boy to make his own decisions without your guys "protecting" him.

Novotny
02-17-2011, 12:58 AM
*straps on flame-retardant underwear*

Perhaps this post has been made with the best of intentions, however I think it's possible that experts in their field - which I hope we'd all agree that the authors are - are perhaps aware of the listed shortcomings.

To my mind, it's a bit like watching a great artist at work and hovering nearby, pointing out things that do not look right. They may not look right quite yet, however he didn't become a revered artist by making bloody obvious mistakes. Perhaps he hasn't got round to fixing that bit up yet.

'Ah ha!' you say. 'He'd never fix it if I didn't point it out!' Well, perhaps. But maybe we should wait until he says that he's done before we seek faults.

I've said this before, but I do believe that people who are actually paid to know what a Spitfire cockpit looks like might be better informed than people who are paid to well, do something else. To some, this seems like a logical leap too far.

Edit: let me ask Speculum Jockey, who may be a gynecologist, or may just be a wishful thinker, how he would feel if I watched him work and and claimed he was doing it wrong all the time, despite never having um, gynecologised. 'You're ripping her flaps!' 'I'm not, the anesthetist has relaxed the vulva.' 'You can't do that, it'll tear the membrame!' 'the membrame is completely at ease'- 'she'll die if you do that!!' 'Stop bringing your inadequacies into this'.

Post op: 'Thank you, surgeon, my wife is on the mend!' 'Yes, and thank you for all your bloody 'help'.'

BadAim
02-17-2011, 01:20 AM
I think Oleg aught to use the same business model I do: Price is adjustable according to how much the customer helps. The more he helps, the more expensive it gets.

I can think of several people who would be paying several hundred for their copy of COD.

speculum jockey
02-17-2011, 01:32 AM
*straps on flame-retardant underwear*
Edit: let me ask Speculum Jockey, who may be a gynecologist, or may just be a wishful thinker, how he would feel if I watched him work and and claimed he was doing it wrong all the time, despite never having um, gynecologised. 'You're ripping her flaps!' 'I'm not, the anesthetist has relaxed the vulva.' 'You can't do that, it'll tear the membrame!' 'the membrame is completely at ease'- 'she'll die if you do that!!' 'Stop bringing your inadequacies into this'.

Post op: 'Thank you, surgeon, my wife is on the mend!' 'Yes, and thank you for all your bloody 'help'.'

Oleg and Luthier have posted tons of screen caps here in the past few years that resulted in people pointing out errors that were in turn fixed.

BF-110 Pitot tube, A&M logo, wrong radio mast placement, etc... all fixed after observant posters pointed them out.

As for you looking over my shoulder and pointing out mistakes, I would appreciate it if you could prove they were in fact mistakes like was posted in this thread and in threads past. As for my patients, no lawsuits so far! :grin: (knock on wood)

Novotny
02-17-2011, 01:34 AM
Ah, but you miss my point! Would you appreciate anyone looking over you shoulder and shouting out stuff mid-op?

Edit:: actually, maybe you haven't. I still think we should wait for release before trying to be clever (not that you are, but some definitely would fall into this category).

speculum jockey
02-17-2011, 01:38 AM
Ah, but you miss my point! Would you appreciate anyone looking over you shoulder and shouting out stuff mid-op?

Ah, but you missed my post! It's a few centimetres above the crappy one. . . . just like my area of expertise! :grin:

Novotny
02-17-2011, 01:39 AM
Editing mishaps, I'm afraid. Being too quick to respond is my error alone.

speculum jockey
02-17-2011, 01:47 AM
Editing mishaps, I'm afraid. Being too quick to respond is my error alone.

That's ok. You can shout over my shoulder any day.

Novotny
02-17-2011, 01:53 AM
Alright if bring a cam?

White Owl
02-17-2011, 03:42 AM
I think Oleg aught to use the same business model I do: Price is adjustable according to how much the customer helps. The more he helps, the more expensive it gets.

I can think of several people who would be paying several hundred for their copy of COD.

I've worked in a couple of shops like this. It's a good plan.

Blackdog_kt
02-17-2011, 05:09 AM
I don't think this is exactly nitpicking. The guy is making an informed observation and he's proven in the past that he's got the knowledge and the reference material to support it. So, as long as he's not rude or something (which i don't think he was, he just gave a list of things he spotted), it's no harm.

To be honest with you, i'm amazed that we (yes, i'm including myself in this too) spend pages upon pages arguing about stuff that is usually either subjective or hard to quantify in a scientifically acceptable way (for example, tracers or colour of grass, it's not that they are unimportant, it's just that it's harder to measure and compare between game and reality), yet when someone comes up with references on things that are very obvious and easy to compare we all jump on his throat :grin:

In fact, i think we've reached a point were the interaction between a tiny amount of over-the-top nitpickers and over-the-top "fanboys" is making it so polarized, that it's getting difficult for the rest of us to avoid getting placed in one of the camps, even without our consent.
We have people like Rodolphe or FlyingPencil who have a lot knowledge and in some cases first hand experience with museum warbirds and people call them nitpickers, because they're tired of the ones who are really nitpicking. Then on the other hand, we have people who remain critical without outright trashing the game and another group calls them butt-kissing fanboys because they are tired of the few who really fit the description.

Well, in my personal experience there are a lot of people who are neither of the two. They are the ones who keep a level headed attitude and do the most to help improve this sim and ease the tensions within the community.

All i'm saying is, please allow those of us who wish so to stay away from this black-or-white vendetta. There are many who think the end result will neither be perfect nor trash, it will just be good and grow over time. Just because we don't find it perfect doesn't make us nitpickers, just because we don't find it totally worthless doesn't make us fanboys either ;)


Finally, i don't think the guy was motivated by negative intentions, otherwise he wouldn't include praise for how the artificial horizon is modeled.

By the way, that's a very nice little detail he spotted there and it amazes me how much detail has gone into this. Instruments back in the day usually operated on gyroscopes spun by engine driven vacuum pumps, the same is true even today for many light/general aviation aircraft. Before the engine starts the gyro instruments are dead, after the engine is running and the pump operates, you gradually get enough suction pressure to create the necessary vacuum and instruments slowly stabilize. Great find on that one, i watched that video but i was so impressed with the sense of speed in the new sim that i missed details like this.

Finally, i will also agree that while documented criticism is useful, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors in the beta. That doesn't mean we have to assume that every small fault and bug is already to the developer's knowledge, but neither do we have to assume that it isn't. Just give good feedback in this forum with references and some good manners and it will all sort itself out, we have a lot of people with a wide range of aviation knowledge that can make a case without making a fool of themselves and a dev team that tries to listen. Relax, provide opinions and all will be just fine in the end. :cool:

Tommy544
02-17-2011, 04:47 PM
I don't know what's going on with you guys, but I think that after very long time when everyone was only complaining about wrong colored grass or star wars tracers, this is finally a constructive thread!

You know for what there is a BETA stage of the development of any program or game? It is for fixing as many bugs as you can find. I know that many of these bugs are already fixed, but I bet that they didn't notice all of them. Would you be happier if the game was released missing some instrument in the cockpit? ( I know that they would notice such a big bug, but for example those gauges with some minor incorrect colors are very hard to notice.)

I just have to say that I'm with you Rodolphe, great job!

FG28_Kodiak
02-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Its useless.
For Example in the leaked Beta Video (i ve downloaded it) there is no one of the descriped "Errors" of the Hurricane to see.
The Instruments are on the correct place and working and no problem with the artificial horizon.
Maybe the cheap grafic cards on the kiev show dont load the textures correctly.

By "Missing wire and spring on the canopy restraining system." He is right this is an Fault.

Flying Pencil
02-17-2011, 06:40 PM
I think it's actually you guys that have become brainwashed since the whole "Whining hype" started.

It's good to see detailed criticism, maybe these issues are indeed not noticed so far by the devs, that would help the sim, and therefore help us all. With all the stuff the devs have going on I'd imagine they sometimes miss certain, often minor, bugs or other issues. As we have so little official ingame videos, this seems to be almost the only way to help Oleg and co.

+1!!

Sorry but I just CANNOT imagine the devs have missed those things.

If I were a developer of a game, and a month before release I would find a topic like this, my response would be: "So?"

Rodolpho, there are TWENTY-TWO people working on this sim and they have been doing so for years. Do you really think you have spotted those things and they have not? Ever heard of the word "arrogance"?

I do Beta testing for another game company, and you would be AMAZED at the bugs they missed!

It is simple why:
They have dozens of units, and it would take them DAYS to properly test each unit, and hours just to look at the model. They simply do not have time to do it.

In the end the fine details are what we as players discover.

WTG, Rodolpho!

Heliocon
02-26-2011, 01:56 PM
1. OP is crazy for seeing this stuff :P
2. WTF why do they show the beta off in these shows and such so much in russia when the main community gets NO videos? Seriously, can we have just 1 freaking in game video clip of a dogfight / mission or something with proper sound? Please, this is absurd. Yes I am whinning, but I am also saying what others are not because they are not registerd - why should we buy a product without any demo, community communication or actual gameplay footage of semi decent quality when other games are promoted and marketed far better? Yes its a niche, but the best game in the world, with poor advertising and communication will fail. As we see all too often, the crappiest games sell huge numbers because they capture peoples attentions. There is no reason why this has to be a niche game even, I was playing WOP on sim and because it looked difficult and graphics looked great I had like 4/5 people surrounding me all wanting a shot at the take off - simulator missions. You have to capture the imagination...

Sven
03-15-2011, 03:36 PM
You really have the eyes of a hawk Rudolphe, or just very into details and that's entirely positive:grin:

Flying Pencil
03-15-2011, 06:27 PM
You really have the eyes of a hawk Rudolphe, or just very into details and that's entirely positive:grin:

He is good, really good, but I know someone who is better, if their is a way to measure it.

GJ Rudolphe! S!