New ideas for "Historic missions" in Sim?

[McQ59]

Hi guys. The simplayer-community in BoP has the few last weeks been buzy flying P51's in the ongoing tournament "Ace of aces", but pretty soon we all will know who will be The One on top. The tournament has been, and by all means are, a real challenge and a top notch experience. Thing is... It will end! And, then what?

Way back when I was part of a great gang that played historic sceneries in TB in realistic mode on saturday nights. Great fun! We organized Battle of Brittain scenes where 3-4 Heinkels took off from Manston to bomb the cathedral at Canterbury, escorted by 3 - 4 Bf. 109 E3's, and wherethey got attacked by Hurries and Spits that scrambled at Hawkinge. Great battles. I think we might have done this a cpl of times in sim-mode too, but my memory don't allways serve me well...

Do any of you guys have new ideas to develop new kind of "Historic missions"?
Like high altitude B17's escorted by P51's over the english channel attacked by K4's, 190's, jets or pure dogfights with allied vs. huns or whatever... or any other scenario that is possible to make in BoP?

Would have been just brilliant to make a playground where both new and old, noobs and vets could gather theire crates in sim to have a good time.

All ideas and simmers wellcome!

[Gilly]

9 Squadron reporting for duty Sar!
Count me in mate.
Happy to do any of the above

[McQ59]

A privelige to have you on board major!
Gilly the Bomberjock is back on track.

[MACADEMIC]

Hi McQ,

Great idea! I'm more than happy to support your initiative. A weekly 'jour fixe' / set time to get together and play BOP also sounds good.

There was one game we were trying in the Club sometime ago but it was never published. German Bombers with escorting fighters were to attack Manston and make an escape back to France. Defenders were P-51s (not historically accurate, but well...) who first had to land in Manston and be ready to scramble. The bombers then set in motion, when they came over the Southern coastline they were spotted (they reported themselves via text chat) and the P-51s scrambled to intercept. We didn't allow the use of map in this game and everyone had only one life. Winner was either the P-51s if all the Germans were downed, or the Germans if at least one of them made it back to France (leave the map in the South). P-51s flew in Club rules (of course).

Perhaps we could try this sometime in a public version. This is the nice thing about BOP, it's really a sandbox that allows for such things. All we need to do is agree on what rules we want to play under.

MAC

[McQ59]

Brilliant MAC. The forum is here, and the possibilities to both develop new ideas, games and rules are legio. I guess all who has, or had, ideas they want(ed) to realise, saw the limits when the actual lobby was buliding up and "fresh nicks" didn't see the score or what was about to happend, but with a mic, a cpl of vets on each team - and a bit of patience it will all be possible. I think the critical succes depends on starting with easy and understandable rules - and then bulid it up to a more advanced set of rules.
I think it's absolutely critical to get the players to use the forum. And a mic!

Not to use the map/radar is a cool idea! Like the "Last bird flying" approach. Gives us the incitament to be a bit careful...

[SEE]

Battle of Brittain scenes

high altitude B17's escorted by P51's over the english channel attacked by K4's, 190's



We have had good sessions with both the above on Xbox SIM ) other than we use other appropriate Strike Maps (i.e. Berlin for B17).

There are many variations e.g. BOB with weather set to blind so that combat has to take place at altitude or restricting a/c to the correct type for a particular year/arena - Yaks V Bf's or FW's.

Despite the limited MP there is opportunity to exploit whats there.

[Chowbird2]

Great idea. I'm in. The newly regenerated interest in the game has been terrific. See you out there.

[P-51]

Permission to join your wing, Sir?

I'd be happy to join in with some games - Hurri's and mk2 spits Vs. early 109's would be a good one. Maybe scrambling etc? Some good ideas here though so keep me informed when there is a match on! :D

[McQ59]

Permission granted Reaper, a privilege :cool:
Keep it comong guys! Every idea is mostly welcome. So are of course every singel pilot!

To have the oppotunity to play a quality game with qualityplayers dedicated to this beautiful birds is a true joy for me.

[grislawskijg52]

Please add me, on CST but would love to participate.. A good idea would be Stuka, 110s, e-3 going after shipping in the channel ie. Kanalkampf..No hud sounds great...Stukas and 110s getting bounced

[Gilly]

I'll get on a recruitment drive and point them here as it'll be the best place to organise. I'd suggest we re-run the old favourites first off just so everyone can orientate themselves with the general setup and then kick off some new ones.

[McQ59]

WoW! What a response guys :-)

Maybe it's a possibily to kick off a few tomorrow night? BoP'in on saturday nights was a success, and may well be it again. Anyway... I'll be on.

Good idea Gilly. Let's see if the chaps crawl out of the bars&pubs...

[The Legendary Spitfire]

This sort of thing sounds brilliant. The only problem I have with it is that I am certaintly not a sim player, or extraordinarily good. I can hold my own but I'm an arcade player and so I think that what we could do is similar sorts of things on the lower difficulties for the less able of us who still play (I'm not a complete noob).

[MACADEMIC]

This sort of thing sounds brilliant. The only problem I have with it is that I am certaintly not a sim player, or extraordinarily good. I can hold my own but I'm an arcade player and so I think that what we could do is similar sorts of things on the lower difficulties for the less able of us who still play (I'm not a complete noob).

Spitfire,

Every simplayer was once in your situation. All it takes is practice practice practice, and the fun shows itself. I must say however there are situations where the game's alternative playing options Arcade and Realistic come in really handy. For instance for someone who doesn't have a suitable TV, or whose eyes don't allow him to look for these tiny blurry movements, or for the novices. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with liking Arcade or Realistic more. But apart from the situations mentioned, anyone can learn to fly in Sim.

MAC

[P-51]

This sort of thing sounds brilliant. The only problem I have with it is that I am certaintly not a sim player, or extraordinarily good. I can hold my own but I'm an arcade player and so I think that what we could do is similar sorts of things on the lower difficulties for the less able of us who still play (I'm not a complete noob).

Yes, as Mac said; all you need is practice. I'd be happy to help out if you want? You have to remember though, that these are't about good players - they're about having fun (and getting me to fly something other than the hurricane or P-51 :P)

McQ, Do I have you added on PSN?

[MACADEMIC]

Congratulations McQ,

on what you've started here! Since you did start, perhaps you should take the lead in this. How about if you work out one weekly scenario and announce it during the week, together with a time? Saturday evening could work out for me, better even a relaxed Sunday afternoons/evenings with BOP.

I also suggest that you ask people to reply to your weekly invitations so it's sure everyone understands what the scenario is. Also, that games should start from the text chat. This ensures questions can be answered, teams assembled and rooms for the appropriate number of players opened which can then fill instantly with the correct players.

MAC

[P-51]

Following on from MAC.
If you want a few simplistic illustrations, or any general help then I'll be happy to oblige.

[McQ59]

This sort of thing sounds brilliant. The only problem I have with it is that I am certaintly not a sim player, or extraordinarily good. I can hold my own but I'm an arcade player and so I think that what we could do is similar sorts of things on the lower difficulties for the less able of us who still play (I'm not a complete noob).

MAC puts it brilliant. I'd just like to add that it is a question of setting the ailerons and elevators due to what plane you choose. You are of course welcome to join and have try at it. Take a look at this post by Widar Thule about recomended settings for each plane;

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10262

He gives you the sensitivity data you need.

[KAV]

Signing in, just like old times.
Duxford wing scramble, this time SIM-Mode.

[mavrickandgoose]

I'm in sounds fun

[The Legendary Spitfire]

Thanks for the offers people but I've tried sim and feel it so constricting and slow (and very hard to control).
I was just asking if a similar thing might be done in arcade mode so that you get more action and a better sense of the battle going on around you.

[themeistor1]

sounds to good to miss lads i'll be there:-P

[olife]

nice idea McQ59!!!

what do u think about a night blitz,with a squadron of heinkel 111 attack and a squadron of "night " hurricanne and blenheim defend the home?

[McQ59]

Congratulations McQ,

on what you've started here! Since you did start, perhaps you should take the lead in this. How about if you work out one weekly scenario and announce it during the week, together with a time? Saturday evening could work out for me, better even a relaxed Sunday afternoons/evenings with BOP.

I also suggest that you ask people to reply to your weekly invitations so it's sure everyone understands what the scenario is. Also, that games should start from the text chat. This ensures questions can be answered, teams assembled and rooms for the appropriate number of players opened which can then fill instantly with the correct players.

MAC

I'm not sure if I'm the guy that can be the best organizer here, but I can open the dance by inviting to the textchat and hosting some games. I think the main thing in the start here is to establish a good groupo of players to take it on. I think things maybe will sort out due to the interest the first weeks. Both saturdays and lazy sunday afternoons are perfect I think.

The suggestion on starting the games from the textchat is very good. Thats the "Briefingroom". Every player that wants to be a part of the mission has to be present there before we take off. I suggest we put the bar on "Can be done" the first few missions, and then highten the level off both type off mission and rules as we see how this develops?

All you guys that don't have me on theire friendslist please send me a request. I really don't know if I got you all there, but I'll do a little "cleansing" and make room if thats necessary.

I'll be on late evening/tonight about 0800'ish UK, and will set up a textchat and send invites to the pilots I see on. My internetconnection might be able to carry 16, but 14 for sure. Let's see what happends!

Tally-ho!

[McQ59]

nice idea McQ59!!!

what do u think about a night blitz,with a squadron of heinkel 111 attack and a squadron of "night " hurricanne and blenheim defend the home?

Love the idea Olife. It's great fun with nightsettings and clear weather. That's absolute an option if you ask me. Let's see how the squadrons react :cool:

[McQ59]

great idea McQ!
These themebattles could be fun! Me110 & 262 against b17s in berlin... Combinations are almost unlimited. And if played with no radar, plane maneuvrebility doesn't matter so much.

We'we done something similar a cpl of times and it was a blast! I'm deff up to try your scenario here.

As I replied to MAC... I think it's important to put the bar low in the first few missions, and then highten the level as it seems possible along the way. Suggest we start with few rules and see what happens.I think we are denpendent on the dicipline and what happens in the "Briefingroom". Most off you guys are highly skilled vets, but it would be nice to recruit a few from the other two modes too. I'm thinking of the radar, sensitivity and general difficulty. All in due time...

[McQ59]

Please add me, on CST but would love to participate.. A good idea would be Stuka, 110s, e-3 going after shipping in the channel ie. Kanalkampf..No hud sounds great...Stukas and 110s getting bounced

Thanks bud! Good idea. Send me a friendrequest.

[Gilly]

I've set up a social group where we can formulate ideas as well as lay down some ground rules. Anyone who wishes to join let me know and I'll drop the invite.

[Mage_016]

This sounds great McQ, prescheduled matches with similiar settings.

HUD off and maybe the flight leader(s) is allowed to check map every now and then?

[Ratman91101]

I personally am a little disappointed.Once again sim seems to be THE organized form of gameplay.Good idea though Q.Have fun!

[hurricane]

the matches on xbox are usually a little sporadic.our historic matches may not be very accurate.sometimes the only way to keep enough guys in a lobby we have to compromize with the real and arcade guys.fri. and sat.we were playing mk2 vs f4 in strike map dogfights.

[Gilly]

So that we can get the ball rolling may I suggest we pencil in something for this coming Saturday 26th at 10pm GMT. I'll post more details within the social club once we formulate the plan but suggest we keep it simple and use one of the previous mission outlines as a starter eg 1940 BoB H3's/109's vs MkII Spits and Hurri's. That way the more experienced guys can impart their knowledge.
Anyone who wishes to join post here and we'll add you into the social group.

[McQ59]

I totally second that Gilly.
This weekend it seemed like the Plague had hit both the BoP-skies and the forum. I couldn't spot a single pilot in the horizon, neither on saturday or sunday.

Let's see what this week can bring along.

[P-51]

So that we can get the ball rolling may I suggest we pencil in something for this coming Saturday 26th at 10pm GMT. I'll post more details within the social club once we formulate the plan but suggest we keep it simple and use one of the previous mission outlines as a starter eg 1940 BoB H3's/109's vs MkII Spits and Hurri's. That way the more experienced guys can impart their knowledge.
Anyone who wishes to join post here and we'll add you into the social group.

Couldn't pencil in a time a little closer to daylight could we? For us student types? :D

[Gilly]

Couldn't pencil in a time a little closer to daylight could we? For us student types? :D

Daylight? student? I thought the two were diametrically opposed!!!!
I would have thought nightime would have suited you better!
The reason for evenings is so the guys across the pond can fit in with the schedule although if it does get off the ground, as McQs mentioned Sunday afternoons are a possibility.

[P-51]

Daylight? student? I thought the two were diametrically opposed!!!!
I would have thought nightime would have suited you better!
The reason for evenings is so the guys across the pond can fit in with the schedule although if it does get off the ground, as McQs mentioned Sunday afternoons are a possibility.

Haha! Thats those University goers! Students (at AS/A level) Actuallygo out during the day! (when not playing BoP :P)

True! But if there are earlier times and mid week get together, then do let me know!

[BloodyRedstar45]

the battle of Y-29

[McQ59]

the battle of Y-29

Doable. Absolute. Good idea!

[Gilly]

Having discussed with McQ we're going to do a dry run on Saturday at 10pm GMT using the Kent map.
Plan is as follows:
16 player lobby set up to 1940,
10 german aircraft- 6xH3's, 3x109's,
6 British aircraft- hurri's, spit mkII's,
German aircraft to make their way to manston and form up in a holding pattern,
British aircraft to make their way to Hawkinge and form up ready for scramble,
At defined time between the two 'leaders' game will begin,
Target for german bombers is the cathedral at Canterbury,
British aircraft will attempt to intercept and prevent bombing from occurring,
Only one life per person with KIA's returning to their home base upon being downed.
Once bomb run has finished german bombers will then attempt to make it back to french coastline.

German objectives: bomb cathedral and return safely to french coastline
British objectives: shoot down enemy force at any stage during game

As stated this is a dry run to orientate players with the game as no map will be allowed to be used during the actual game and you will therefore need to get a grip on landmarks.
Headsets are a must as communication will be of vital importance.

I'll happily command the german bomber force having previously done this. I'll need a flight leader for the 109's though of there are any volunteers. Similarly the British force will require a similar wing commander.
Liason between forces will be via these leaders to commence the game.
Ideally we'd like those wanting to take part to state their intention here along with a preference of aircraft they wish to fly. Please state a 1st and 2nd choice in the event it becomes over subscribed.

Sign up is via the social group, send me or McQ a PM if you wish to join.

Here's to Saturday!

[MACADEMIC]

Great plan Gilly and McQ!

I'd like to sign up.

Preference 1: Hurricane
Preference 2: Spitfire MKII

MAC

P.S.: A word on the Social Groups. I'm not quite sure how to use them best because they're actually not visible for everyone. I think our community needs every bit of impulse (such as yours), which in my opinion is most effective when happening in public. Perhaps the Social group could be used to draw up plans which are then made public on the forum? Edal and I used PSN messages, email and forum messages for planning and organising. I realize now we could have done much of it as a social group. Just my two cents.

[Gilly]

I don't have any issue with posting here but rather than fill the pages with reams of plans etc it's easy to just post them within the social club forum pages whereby everyone interested and registered can easily view and comment without the need for pages and pages here.

Ps thanks for signing up Mac

[McQ59]

I see what you mean MAC. I suggest we try out the model were we schedule the flights and general ideas on forum directly, and then do the detailed "briefing" and the occasional discusions in the social group. I'm afraid there will be to many posts on the forum for me to catch up with. And I mean... The sosial group is open for all the interested players to join.

Let's see how this thing flies, and then do the "adjustments" as we glide along.

And one more thing... Gilly mentioned the B-17 attack on the Reichstag. Those missions were hillarious fun. The planes involved were of course the usual suspects - P51's, K4's and the 190's.


Prefered plane on first mission: Bf.109-E3
Second choice: Spit Mk. II

(I can't bomb for sh*t, and my reargunner has allways been asleep on our missions. Sometimes I suspect him to be drunk&happy).

[StiC]

This sounds like a good time. My home life is a bit hectic, but sign me up and I will do my best to participate.

[P-51]

Its a Saturday, and In the holidays. I'm still snot sure I can make a 10pm start..
pitty really :( Looks like I'll have to join in on a lazy Sunday afternoon though!

[Lost Apiarist]

Hi all, been getting back in the air more lately (Xbox 360) and am hoping we can organize some Historical and or Free flight events. People that may be interested in organizing this as they have a lot of contacts.

Bobbysockser
Rambo 360

Let me know if you are interested and I will help out.

[mavrickandgoose]

As far as I know I'll be able to play at that time I would prefer to fly a fighter don't really care weather it's a spit or 109

[JOED70]

Ill take a 109 seat please :)))

[Gilly]

Still time to jump in.
So far we have definitely have:
McQ: 109
Myself: He111
JOED: 109
MACADEMIC: spit/ hurri
Mavrick: spit/ hurri
Plus a couple of tentatives

This is just a dry run, orientate yourself bit of fun so hop on!

[P-51]

Still time to jump in.
So far we have definitely have:
McQ: 109
Myself: He111
JOED: 109
MACADEMIC: spit/ hurri
Mavrick: spit/ hurri
Plus a couple of tentatives

This is just a dry run, orientate yourself bit of fun so hop on!

If I see you online and about to jump into a game; I'll jump in. If you need another Bomber then I'll fly your wing, but if, suddenly, you get a lot more bombers, I'll fly anything to get the right numbers!

[McQ59]

If I see you online and about to jump into a game; I'll jump in. If you need another Bomber then I'll fly your wing, but if, suddenly, you get a lot more bombers, I'll fly anything to get the right numbers!

That's cool reaper, but we're going to invite the guys who's online to a textchat to ensure every pilot gets the idea about what we're up to, and to join the lobby in a hurry. We have done a few experiences with players that join the lobby - and which haven't had the faintest clue about what we try to do... We try to avoid the random La-7, IL-10's and deaf players without mic's and stuff like that.
It's not that we want to exclude anyone, it's based on experience.

If u'r on we'll invite u to the textchat. No worries.

[P-51]

Well dont be afraid to let me get my ass handed to me :p

[Gilly]

Cheers Reaper,
Was starting to feel all alone in my flying coffin!
I've dropped some messages out via psn to the guys that can't always make it on here so I hoping when I get in tonight I'll have a few replies.

[Gilly]

Thanks to all that have confirmed for later.
10pm GMT tonight- look out for McQ hosting.
See you all there!

[bobbysocks]

Hi all, been getting back in the air more lately (Xbox 360) and am hoping we can organize some Historical and or Free flight events. People that may be interested in organizing this as they have a lot of contacts.

Bobbysockser
Rambo 360

Let me know if you are interested and I will help out.

yeah i would organize it for xbox. my server goes squirrelly now and then but i am game. we just need to work out a time.

[MACADEMIC]

Hi McQ and Gilly, Hi all!

Would like to share my experience with last night's attempt. I was there at the time and since I had run into Mage before I asked him if he'd like to come along. He agreed, I was thinking that it doesn't matter too much if he's not yet in the picture since I was expecting the thing to start from a text chat with a briefing.

From previous experience I know how difficult it is to keep a lobby 'on the same page', the bigger the lobby and the more complex the mission, the harder it is. Even having a mic doesn't really solve this if the lobby is large. Voice quality goes right down, and then you have the possibility that someone has turned their sound off, or doesn't speak English.

It was impressive to see a full room of 16 players right at the beginning (the plague's over Mcq ;-) ). I don't know what everybody knew of the mission beforehand, but I can say for sure that it was too late for Mage to get the picture. He really didn't know what's going on, and perhaps he wasn't alone.
Because of this I started the text chat and was hoping we'd do the briefing there - sorry guys, I didn't mean to hijack your game.

Anyway it didn't catch on. Mage then decided to drop out and since I had brought him in I decided to pass as well. We played a great game of I16s in Club rules instead. There was another opportunity later which I missed since I was in a game with themeistor who wanted to do training for his semifinals.

So I missed the main action yesterday. Would like to hear your experience with the setup and mission!

We got to play some missions when the main show was over and only Zhang from the first group remained. We briefed the newcomers Stapler and Vdomini in the text chat (twice, since they didn't come at the same time...), and later again alfabravowiskey and wakespeak. It takes a lot of time to brief in text chat, especially when you have to do it repeately. I even sent wolfsalt away since i was tired of briefing again. Sorry wolf!

The missions (first 2 vs 2, later 3 vs 3) turned out to be great and immersive. There were a lot of problems however landing the Spitfire in Hawkinge, which delayed the games a lot. We also decided to not use the maps which led to some orientation problems. Here it would have made sense to make landing proficiency and prior orientation mandatory.

So long story short, I think historical missions are a great add on and we should keep writing more 'scripts' for them. But to make a good experience I think the briefings and questions should be all completed before starting a lobby. Even text chat is not good for this, only for collecting all players who are in the picture before starting the lobby, so that they know when to expect the lobby to go live and jump right in (in the correct number of players).

I think it should be known some time before who exactly will play, and by their 'application' for a game event they acknowledge having been briefed, so only a very few questions (or better none) remain before the game. Also it should not be allowed to bring someone along as I tried yesterday.

Hope I don't sound too harsh but I feel it's much more fun playing when all is clear than spending so much time trying to keep it together.

Hope we'll play this again soon!

MAC

:)

[McQ59]

I think I see exactly what you mean MAC. The challenge is the sync- and communicationissues between the players. Were to do the briefing is a real problem, and I don't really know how to solve it.
The succes last night was the full lobby! The bombrun against Canterbury went of pretty nice. The cathedral was levelled, and the bombers went on to France pretty much unchallenged by the fighters. A bit boring for the bomberjocks...

The odd rogue-pilots is a challenge in itself. It seems to be something like a "law" that applies to this kind of attempts to set up organized missions - there's allways one that don't get the idea, don't have a mic or cope with the language and communication. It be in the lobby or in the chat... A sequel should absolutely provide the possibility to set up private lobbies based on invites to "involved" pilots. My opinion...

I guess we have to be a little patient, and plan long term. The more players we can involve in the pre-planning in here, the better. And then start the mission in the textchat, invite players, do the briefing and then take right off in to a lobby to fill it up quick. It is like u say... The time to organize and administrate each mission steals a lot of focus, but how to solve it due to the possibillities we have with the present lobbysystem, I really can't figure out for the time beeing.

Let's see what the future brings guys, and we'll keep trying till we get it, and don't loose the momentum the game has right now. It's a bunch of skilled players who want to have fun right now. Last night I think we did a fairly good try. Sooner or later we'll make it!

See you in the skies :-)

[MACADEMIC]

Hi McQ,

I have an idea how to solve it. Whoever wants to organize/host such a historical mission starts a thread and occupies say immediately the first two posts for later editing.

First post:


Brief Mission outline
Time and Date
Player Skill Prerequisites
Room Size
Participants list


Second post:


Detailed Briefing
Additional materials (pictures, maps, etc.)


I think the trick is to handle this like a mini tournament. You have to make players commited and familar with the rules. And you have to act according to plan - no additional players who have not registered and have been admitted. Stick to the time. Penalize (yes, sorry) players who commit and don't show (e.g. blocked for next event). And it's the organizer who calls the shots, e.g. who will be admitted to participate and who not.

Hope we'll soon see lots of such events spring up, and work.

:)

MAC

[McQ59]

Good one MAC. I think it might work. It takes a bit of long term planning, but that's okay. The key is the thread to brief the mission, and the discipline to stick to the plan.

Let's see if it is possible. I can't promise to organize the next one, but give me a little time to think about it. I'll be around the forum anyway, so I'll propably throw in some stuff to get it to fly. I have the possibilty to host due to my connection/broadband, so let's see what we can pull off.

And thanks to the players from last night. Well... most of them anyway ;-) I had great fun in my E-3 there. The brits put up a good fight!

[bobbysocks]

a battle of britian where hurris and spits battle the 109s and volkwaffe!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk52tDKELdQ

[Akula]

On the subject on map orientation: Would it be a fair compromise for people to only use the in-game map to get to their home base? It'd make for a faster setup of teams.

And as Mac said, we had alot of trouble landing the Spit at Hawkinge. It tips over so easily. We eventually settled for circling the airfield.

[Mage_016]

First of all i'm sorry if I was interrupting the game you had. I knew what was going on, but I wasn't sure that did you have chosen your planes and teams earlier.

At the first try I was shot down couple of times before I even made to the hawkings airfield. I was little frustrated and left that match. For the next one, I was in the lobby and after a while I saw the room was full and some guys with mic was not in so I decided to leave and left room for them.

It's good idea to preorganise the game here in forum and then meet in textchat before the lobby is made. Then reorganise if someone is not showing up. I personally don't think any penalties are good thing, because this eventually is only a videogame and it should be more fun than anything else. Different thing is in tournaments, there some penalties are must.
And for using map, I had to check where the hell is that hawkings airfield :)

[MACADEMIC]

Hi Mage,

Sorry if I misrepresented you in my post. I also don't think that you were the problem.

About penalties, okay perhaps it's taking it too far, but I still think scheduled events are a good idea.

How about this: for each historic mission a thread is created. If this mission proves popular, we can ask the moderators to make it a sticky. On this thread we ask community members who would like to play this game to give a statement that they have read and understood the mission and have done all necessary training and familiarisation to make themselves proficient for the mission. The thread starter can then keep the list of eligible players up to date in the first posting of his thread.

This way missions could be started either scheduled or even spontaneously, if enough qualified players are online. It would also create a pool of qualified players who could fill in when someone cannot attend. Again, I would recommend to start from text chat.

So long,

MAC

[McQ59]

No worries Mage. You weren't even close to be the problem last saturday night. Your neighbour in east was the loose cannon and caused us some delays there.

I totally go for the compromises Zhang suggests in the post above, and the suggestions from both Mage and MAC on how to organize the next mission(s).

I have tried to do some thinking on how to improve the conditions for the missions that involves bombers, and how to do it a bit more interesting for the bomberguys. It seemed that the fighters involved in the Battle of Britain were more or less uninterested in attacking the bombers - and intercepted the 109's instead. What if we put up a mission on one of the maps that involves ships; Britain or Sicily, and the task is of course for the bombers to damage/sink the ship(s). If we put limits on wich bombers to use (not the Arado or the B-17. They inflict to much damage to fast) it might be possible to have a progress in the mission that makes it fun for everyone involved. The 3-4 bombers task is a mentioned to bomb the ships, they got top-cover from 3-4 fighters and will be intercepted by 6-8 enemy fighters.

The goal is not to win by tickets, but to improve skills and have fun trying to do the job. And of course to be the last bird flying... and return to base.

If you guys think this is a mission you could take part in, I'll establish a thread for it - and schedule the time and map, and try to organize it for the upcoming saturday due to the suggestions that has come up to improve the feasibility.

Suggested allied bombers: A20 or Blenheims
Suggested german bombers: He-111 or Stukas

German fighters: G-2 or F-4, 190's. I guess the italian 202's can be used too (by the real highrisktakers).
Allied fighters: Hurricanes, Mk. IX and Mustangs.

These should be regarded only as suggestions. I'm very open to other ideas to improve and increase the fun-factor!

[RuffMonk]

Well I'm about to kick off a historical series with some of the late night arcade crowd that will span 14 different scenarios covering the Battle of Britain from its outbreak up to the nighttime bombing raids of London. I did some research and found the Battle of Britain Historical Society's website that has actual historical breakdowns for each day that detailed aircraft involved, times of day even down to the weather. So check out the link below it was a MAJOR help for my campaign.

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/contents-index.html

I'm currently looking to cover the Russian invasion from Operation Barbarossa onwards and my research so far hasn't come up with anything other than general info regarding aerial engagements, so if anyone has any resources detailing specific information, I'd REALLY appreciate it.

[MACADEMIC]

Well I'm about to kick off a historical series with some of the late night arcade crowd that will span 14 different scenarios covering the Battle of Britain from its outbreak up to the nighttime bombing raids of London. I did some research and found the Battle of Britain Historical Society's website that has actual historical breakdowns for each day that detailed aircraft involved, times of day even down to the weather. So check out the link below it was a MAJOR help for my campaign.

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/contents-index.html

I'm currently looking to cover the Russian invasion from Operation Barbarossa onwards and my research so far hasn't come up with anything other than general info regarding aerial engagements, so if anyone has any resources detailing specific information, I'd REALLY appreciate it.

Sources would most likely be in German or Russian. With German I can help you translating!

Would love to see the missions you have worked out, although I'm playing in simulator. But if you don't mind we could exchange ideas and missions and modify as required.

MAC

[RuffMonk]

Sounds like a plan! I basically looked through all the battles listed in the website and picked out the most significant battle for each week spanning the first three phases of the battle with one or two having two battles picked out. I then just basically tried to mirror that particular engagement as close as I could. I tried to make the aircraft as proportionally close to the real thing as possible. For example:

Our first battle will be the first engagement on July 10th where 24 Do-17s, 30 Bf-110s and 20+ Bf-109s crossed the Channel and attacked. In game, it will be a Strike mission on the Britain map with 2 He-111s (in place of the Do-17s), 3 Bf-110s and 2 Bf-109s going head to head with 4 Hurricanes and 2 Spitfires (the listed squadrons that engaged the Luftwaffe in that battle). It will be a daytime attack b/c it's listed on the website as 1350 during the rain as the weather called for rain that day according to the site. I even asked the top aces in arcade to fly for the Luftwaffe as a way to somewhat level the skill differences and b/c the Luftwaffe had the better pilots historically.

Another mission I have set is at the outset of phase 2. There was a communication mix up where the first assault was called off and in one particular case only the escorts of Oberst Johannes Fink's bomber group got the message. The Do-17s went on and ultimately had no fighter escort. So one of our missions will mirror this SNAFU where 9 He-111s will tangle with 4 fighters. On the opposite side we'll be doing the same with Blenheims and 109s to recreate Britain's first nighttime bombing raid of Berlin. These are perhaps the ones I'm looking forward to the most as they just scream "Red Skies Over Dover" in the single campaign (one of my favorites). None of these are meant to be competitive and is more for the experience then anything else.

So nothing special on my part here, but I do have some surprises in store for the the RAF guys once phase 2 of the Battle of Britain battles begin that I will pm you about in case some of them visit the site. I don't want to spoil anything, lol!

Anyway, feel free to pick my brain as I will help you as much as I can. I'm also open to suggestions as this will the first time I've organized anything like this and so I'm just making it up as I go along, lmao!!!

[vdomini]

Hello guys!

I've tryed historical mission with mac last weekend was so fun and cool!

hope to do it again!!


have fun!

[McQ59]

I'm working on an idea to launch "Operation Husky" - the invasion of Sicily.

The mission on Canterbury last saturday l think learned us that to get the bombers to be at bit more central in the battle, I want to engage ships as targets and do it in strike-mode. This way the fighters are given an incitament to down them before they get to do theire bombruns.

The general idea is to set it to 1943 and have the german side to scramble He-111 and Stukas at the airfield at Catania. The top-cover will be G2's and F4's, and maybe a cpl of 202's from the Italian airforce.

The allied forces will defend the ships with the aid of P51's and Spits. The thought strategy will be for the mustangs to engage enemy fighters, and the spits to engage enemy bombers.

What do you guys think? Anyone interested in doing a mission like that? If it is, I'll put up a thread with the name "Operation Husky" and follow MACs idea of how to brief it from there...

[Gilly]

I'm in mate. Happy to fly anything.
Regarding the mission briefing I did create one for the one on Saturday in the historic group it's just no one bothered with it obviously (save for those who pre-committed to an aircraft). What Saturday did demonstrate is how lacking sadly BoP is in terms of it's lobbys compared to other titles. Whilst we all know about the necessary 'work arounds' in certain areas of this game, having stubborn 'I'm not leaving, I'm flying an airborne T34 and I'll do my best to spoil it for all' types really wound me up. Having been graced with recent titles whereby idiots are quickly removed and even 'reported' for being idiots it really is one thing that needs to be addressed in any possible sequel.
As much as I really think these historics are a great idea I get the horrible feeling that the pre-lobby (for example using sicily 1943) will end up with B17 and IL's which will either require much messaging to those without headsets or common sense and subsequent frustration for those having to wait. Whilst I agree with the pre-match chat room should cut down on this we saw Saturday how quickly lobby's get 'hijacked'. Sorry not meant to be a downer but having laid out a brief that those who had read it understood it just wound me on Saturday night having to sit until the lobby was correct and then having to deal once in the game with the randoms. I want to play this game for the fun factor and not to have to babysit stubborn morons.

[McQ59]

No problem in seeing what you mean Gilly. If we get a good pre-interesst for doing the "Op Husky" on saturday, the mission will be launched from the text-chat. The number of players in the chat will be the # of players in the lobby. It will be pointed out that no B-17's or Arados or IL's will be given permission to take off.

Let's see if we can do it. It has been done before.

[JOED70]

Yes Gilly again 100% correct.
Funny though when I have met some of these don't understand english or no headset individuals as my alter ego . They seem to have no problem understanding english as they messeged me asking questions. They have come for one reason only to cause trouble . If only thier mothers had changed thier diapers more often or breastfed them longer they would not now suffer from the mental defects that seem to plauge thier cobweb filled skulls.

[JOED70]

No problem in seeing what you mean Gilly. If we get a good pre-interesst for doing the "Op Husky" on saturday, the mission will be launched from the text-chat. The number of players in the chat will be the # of players in the lobby. It will be pointed out that no B-17's or Arados or IL's will be given permission to take off.

Let's see if we can do it. It has been done before.

Huskey !!!!!
Oh I can not miss that one for sure count me in

[Gilly]

Rest assured that the good intention is there it just boils my piss when you get one muppet doing their level best to mess it up.

[McQ59]

I've set up a thread in the social group. Let's take it from there guys.

If more pilots check in for duty there, I will make a thread on main forum to start serious recruiting for saturday 26'th.

The mission will start from textchat up front, with the excact # of slots.

[FOZ_1983]

Us 360 players need to get together and organise something like this. Granted i've given combat a miss in recent months, but free flying/historic missions are worth flying for.

Anyone on the 360 fancy sorting something like this out?

We've done it before so no reason why we cant do it again. Anyone remember the HE111 staffel flying across the channel with 109 escort?

All going well until about 2 miles off the Dover cliffs, jackedwardmorri decided to cause one huge mid air collision amongst the bombers...

Good times haha.

[vdomini]

I'm working on an idea to launch "Operation Husky" - the invasion of Sicily.

The mission on Canterbury last saturday l think learned us that to get the bombers to be at bit more central in the battle, I want to engage ships as targets and do it in strike-mode. This way the fighters are given an incitament to down them before they get to do theire bombruns.

The general idea is to set it to 1943 and have the german side to scramble He-111 and Stukas at the airfield at Catania. The top-cover will be G2's and F4's, and maybe a cpl of 202's from the Italian airforce.

The allied forces will defend the ships with the aid of P51's and Spits. The thought strategy will be for the mustangs to engage enemy fighters, and the spits to engage enemy bombers.

What do you guys think? Anyone interested in doing a mission like that? If it is, I'll put up a thread with the name "Operation Husky" and follow MACs idea of how to brief it from there...


MC202 pilot reporting ! Ready to take off! :-) An italian plane at last ehehe :cool:

[bobbysocks]

Us 360 players need to get together and organise something like this. Granted i've given combat a miss in recent months, but free flying/historic missions are worth flying for.

Anyone on the 360 fancy sorting something like this out?

We've done it before so no reason why we cant do it again. Anyone remember the HE111 staffel flying across the channel with 109 escort?

All going well until about 2 miles off the Dover cliffs, jackedwardmorri decided to cause one huge mid air collision amongst the bombers...

Good times haha.


sure let me know when? i will juggle things around if i can to be there. or we could do a bombing raid on berlin.

[McQ59]

MC202 pilot reporting ! Ready to take off! :-) An italian plane at last ehehe :cool:

Absolute great mate!

(Can please anyone who knows how invite this pilote to the social group).

[MACADEMIC]

Hello all,

Our friend Ruffmonk has developed some very interesting ideas for historical battles for his friends in Arcade mode and has kindly shared them with me.

They are all themed after the Battle of Britain, he has studied actual war diaries. It would be great if we could adapt his missions for our purposes.

Here it goes:

Battle 1:
The first scenario covered the opening of The Channel Battles Wednesday, July 10th. Historically, at 1350 British radar picked up a German formation consisting of 24 Do-17s, 30+ Bf-110s and 20+ Bf109s crossing the Channel. So for the game I set the Luftwaffe to 2 He-111s, 3 Bf-110s and 2 Bf-109s. 3 Hurricane and 2 Spitfire squadrons scrambled to intercept, so the RAF players were set with 4 Hurricanes and 2 Spitfires. The day was rainy according to weather report, so the weather for the game was set to rain in a Strike mission with the RAF on team A.

In the lobby, I was the only player bold enough to select a Bf-110 as all of my other Germans claimed to not have the plane, so we played with 2 extra 109s to my disappointment, but I wasn't going to argue the point if people didn't want to fly the 110. As expected, we got shot to hell, but we did have some success getting to Strike targets to drop our bombs.

Battle 2:
The second battle was a continuation of The Channel Battles that covered Sunday July 14th. Historically at 1150, 80 Ju-87s and an unknown number of Bf-109s attacked a convoy in the English Channel and so this was the battle we recreated. The RAF scrambled 2 Hurricane and a single Spitfire squadron to intercept. So for the game, I set the Luftwaffe with 4 Ju-87s and 3 Bf-109s. The RAF again had 4 Hurricanes and 2 Spits to maintain an accurate proportion of real life counterparts. Again we did a Strike mission, though I switched the RAF to Team B, so we (Germans) would be attacking the ships in the scenario. The weather that day called for a fair bit of cloud, so the weather was set to Hazy.

We had much more success in this mission as the RAF guys, as they did in the first mission, sat over top of the targets allowing the much more maneuverable Stukas to generally get our bombs off on a majority of our bomb runs. That tactic worked better for them in the first game with the slower 111s. I had told them prior to the first match that even though we will be doing Strike missions, not to worry with bombing as it was simply a way for us to have targets to bomb. I guess they took it literally and just hung over the targets. I told a few of them that night that they should move out further so they have more time to jump on us as a way to clarify things.

Battle 3:
Again continuing with The Channel Battles we covered a battle that took place on Saturday, July 20th. It was another Stuka attack, but I decided to change things up a bit. It's mentioned that Bf-109s buy this time in history were trying to lure the RAF out over the open waters and so I decided to do a fighter vs. fighter scenario for the 3rd mission. So we had 7 Bf-109s vs. 4 Hurricanes and 2 Spitfires in another Strike mission instead of the standard Team Battle as I didn't want planes to just be popping up when they respawned. I had set the weather to poor as it was mentioned in the site that weather over the course of several days was either rainy, foggy or storming.

Thanks a lot Ruffmonk, and keep them coming!

MAC

[McQ59]

Brilliant. The ideas are popping up :-)
The Battle of Brittain is a sure hit.