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View Full Version : Ouch! It's official, no dynamic campaign.


addman
02-03-2011, 02:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/5151024809

Ouch! ouch! ouch! This REALLY spoils my party a bit. Being mainly an offliner this is not good news. Don't get me wrong, a good scripted campaign is really appreciated but no squad mates/management etc. It all goes out the door. Guess that the "constant multiplayer" thingie might be what holds this together otherwise I'm actually inclined to wait for an update/add-on dynamic campaign before I buy this game. Never thought I would say it. Ever!:(

Really holding my thumbs for the multiplayer component now otherwise this might be a VERY hollow release. Also never thought I would be a whiner but there you go.

*The glass is half-full! the glass is half-full! happy thoughts!*:grin:

Royraiden
02-03-2011, 02:23 PM
Bummer :(

pupo162
02-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Sad day... dynamic campaigns were what got me into il2 in the first place....


hope online is THAT good....

bah.... depressed now :(

Royraiden
02-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Did Il-2 have the dynamic campaings at release?

TheSwede
02-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Did Il-2 have the dynamic campaings at release?

No I think it was implemented when Forgotten Battles arrived.

Stock Il2 just had scripted campaigns.

Royraiden
02-03-2011, 02:44 PM
Then we shouldnt be alarmed,well at least not so much.

addman
02-03-2011, 02:46 PM
No I think it was implemented when Forgotten Battles arrived.

Stock Il2 just had scripted campaigns.

That's correct. I just had high hopes that the "game element" of CoD would be better than the previous titles. I know of course that Luthier and Co will stun us with a superbly scripted campaign with some new elements incorporated but still....it bugs me.

I wish there would be some kind of happy medium where dynamic and scripted would blended together and offer the best of two worlds. For example, everything is played out historically day by day BUT you have control over your squadron, loadouts, type of mission to be conducted and maybe some superficial management overall. Maybe one day...

addman
02-03-2011, 02:52 PM
Then we shouldnt be alarmed,well at least not so much.

That's what I thought as well but then I thought "this game has been in development for a long time and there are no dynamic campaign at release".

That MIGHT mean:

1. They haven't even started work on one.
2. If they will release a dynamic campaign in an update, it might not be much to write home about since it's not something you do over a short period of time.
3. This time they have put A LOT of emphasise on the multiplayer.

As long as one of the components kicks *ss, I'm on!

Royraiden
02-03-2011, 02:56 PM
Lets just wait and see.Im getting tired waiting though :(

jcenzano
02-03-2011, 03:03 PM
1. They haven't even started work on one.



I am so afraid this is the case. If so, I don´t think that we can expect a decent (not to mention good) dynamic campaing anytime soon.

It´s a pity because IMHO dynamic campaings, in wich flying is just a part of managing the air battle (resources, supplies,etc), take the game to a higher dimension.

Other tan that, CoD looks great and I am sure we all will have a lot of fun with it.

addman
02-03-2011, 03:05 PM
I am so afraid this is the case. If so, I don´t think that we can expect a decent (not to mention good) dynamic campaing anytime soon.

It´s a pity because IMHO dynamic campaings, in wich flying is just a part of managing the air battle (resources, supplies,etc), take the game to a higher dimension.

Other tan that, CoD looks great and I am sure we all will have a lot of fun with it.

Agree. No doubt it will be a blast either way and it's actually going to be released!:)

lbuchele
02-03-2011, 03:05 PM
No problem, scripted campaigns are more interesting IMHO.
I hope that the campaign isn´t too short.(probably it covers BoB day-by-day)

pancake
02-03-2011, 03:25 PM
I'm not really surprised, its an element desired in the inital release but considering this is probably (hopefully) the first installment of a long running series rather than the complete game it can wait untill later in a patch or intoduced in 'IL2 cliffs of the battle of the bulge or whatever.' If there is a later that is.....

kendo65
02-03-2011, 03:27 PM
That's what I thought as well but then I thought "this game has been in development for a long time and there are no dynamic campaign at release".

That MIGHT mean:

1. They haven't even started work on one.
2. If they will release a dynamic campaign in an update, it might not be much to write home about since it's not something you do over a short period of time.
3. This time they have put A LOT of emphasise on the multiplayer.

As long as one of the components kicks *ss, I'm on!

It seems very obvious that the devs finally reached the conclusion that the full-featured game was just going to take too long to complete. Oleg stated last year that the game had to be released in 2010 (!) for financial reasons. They need to get some return on their investment.

Given that reality, decisions on what could be left out of the initial release had to be made. With limited time to devote to finishing and polishing a sub-set of features to release standard it seems that quite a few non-essential elements have been postponed - DX11 and the dynamic campaign being the two we know of so far.

The approach is entirely logical. I don't think there's any doubt that in time we'll get these features.


That MIGHT mean:

1. They haven't even started work on one.
2. If they will release a dynamic campaign in an update, it might not be much to write home about since it's not something you do over a short period of time.

1. Possibly not :):(
2. I'd say it's the reverse - we would be much more likely to get a poor quality version if they'd tried rushing it for the March release.

Their strategy is to focus on the essentials for a releasable game - bug-fixing, flight models, AI, terrain ;) , etc, etc.

Would I prefer DX11 and full dynamic campaign at launch? Of course. But not at the expense of flaws and bugs elsewhere. I think we'll get a solid game initially, with a lot of upgrades to look forward to in the future.

Tvrdi
02-03-2011, 03:28 PM
as an explicit onliner I really dont care....but I understand that it might be a bad news for some...

Qpassa
02-03-2011, 03:30 PM
as an explicit onliner I really dont care....but I understand that it might be a bad news for some...

But there are also dynamic online campaigns

addman
02-03-2011, 03:35 PM
It seems very obvious that the devs finally reached the conclusion that the full-featured game was just going to take too long to complete. Oleg stated last year that the game had to be released in 2010 (!) for financial reasons. They need to get some return on their investment.

Given that reality, decisions on what could be left out of the initial release had to be made. With limited time to devote to finishing and polishing a sub-set of features to release standard it seems that quite a few non-essential elements have been postponed - DX11 and the dynamic campaign being the two we know of so far.

The approach is entirely logical. I don't think there's any doubt that in time we'll get these features.



1. Possibly not :):(
2. Quite the reverse - we would be much more likely to get a poor quality version if they'd tried rushing it for the March release.

Their strategy is to focus on the essentials for a releasable game - bug-fixing, flight models, AI, terrain ;) , etc, etc.

Would I prefer DX11 and full dynamic campaign at launch? Of course. But not at the expense of flaws and bugs elsewhere. I think we'll get a solid game initially, with a lot of upgrades to look forward to in the future.

I agree that removal of bugs and polishing is more important than releasing something half-arsed that's why I couldn't give a rats *ss about things like DX11 for example. Also, better to have super singleplayer component and a less then stellar multiplayer component -or the other way around- than two mediocre components.

Baron
02-03-2011, 03:47 PM
Well, there is a second option, they have started working on one, its just not gonna be finished for release in march.

NEWGUY
02-03-2011, 03:47 PM
Well, isn't IL2 Cliffs of Dover multiplayer the new, "dynamic campaign, " if you will? What need is there of a dynamic campaign when you can have a persistent campaign online, that can go on for weeks or longer, against real people? Seems a lot more exciting than going against AI.

addman
02-03-2011, 03:48 PM
Well, there is a second option, they have started working on one, its just not gonna be finished for release.

That's what the optimist inside of me is saying too.:)

addman
02-03-2011, 04:07 PM
From one of the Ubi forum mods:

The Dev team are trying to answer all of your frequently answered questions.


Must be boring for Oleg to answer the same questions over and over again.

NEWGUY
02-03-2011, 04:24 PM
I am sure that a 3rd party or the COD team will eventually come out with a dynamic campaign. This could be a real blessing for the off- liners though. Multiplayer is very challenging and exciting. If the off- liners give multiplayer a chance, they may really enjoy a persistent online campaign and may not want to go back to the AI only environment.

Tree_UK
02-03-2011, 04:31 PM
That first patch file is going to be one hell of a download.

kestrel79
02-03-2011, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't kill yourself over no dynamic campaign just yet guys. Not at least until the full gameplay aspects of how online multiplayer will function.

I think what Oleg and gang have planned for online will make the traditional dynamic campaign obsolete. Just be a little more patient ;)

I'm sure down the road someone 3rd party will release a dynamic campaign.

One of the main complaints of IL2 was that it had no heart, no soul, no feel of the 1940s vibe or era. I think they are trying to change that by focusing on a truely immersive and engaging fixed campaign that has a little swagger and feel true to the era. I'm all for that.

addman
02-03-2011, 04:47 PM
I wouldn't kill yourself over no dynamic campaign just yet guys. Not at least until the full gameplay aspects of how online multiplayer will function.

I think what Oleg and gang have planned for online will make the traditional dynamic campaign obsolete. Just be a little more patient ;)

I'm sure down the road someone 3rd party will release a dynamic campaign.

One of the main complaints of IL2 was that it had no heart, no soul, no feel of the 1940s vibe or era. I think they are trying to change that by focusing on a truely immersive and engaging fixed campaign that has a little swagger and feel true to the era. I'm all for that.

So am I, I just don't want to be dependent on other people for MY game experience if you know what I mean. I agree though, that it seems like the online campaign system might be something very special.

JG53Frankyboy
02-03-2011, 05:21 PM
and most propably very soon after releae there will handmade campaigns appear, with historical missions and weather day per day from July to November 1940 ................

i have all these very talented missionbuilders in mind who enjoyed us the last years with their IL2 campaigns :)

Biggs
02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
i had a feeling for a long time that there wouldnt be any dynamic campaign. the hints were there... the girl on your lap bit seemed like a big scripted aspect, and last week when ilya said that thing about love stories...

my only issue is that I have a feeling that the "story" will have us bouncing around from plane to plane... ie: a few missions in a spit then moved to a hurri, then even a bomber for the odd night time bombing mission. I forget which vid i saw it in but i believe it was somewhere in the interface that showed missions like chapters in a book each one with a new plane in it...

im hoping the new updates will shed more light on how the story is going to be laid out.

Raggz
02-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Not everybody is interested in online multiplayer. Some just prefer a good singelplayer time. That's why a dynamic campaign is important.

JG27CaptStubing
02-03-2011, 06:25 PM
I haven't seen a real dynamic campaign since Falcon 4.

The Kraken
02-03-2011, 06:35 PM
Most dynamic campaigns were poorly implemented anyway. So I'm neither surprised nor shocked - better to make sure the underlying parts (mission format, AI) work fine. You can bet we'll see some external campaign implementation within weeks after release.

Let's just hope the AI works well enough and allows more then a handful of planes per mission (and no I have no interest in any form of online play whatsoever).

Alien
02-03-2011, 06:39 PM
But look from better point of view: static campaign means that it may be FULLY historical one!

The Kraken
02-03-2011, 06:48 PM
But look from better point of view: static campaign means that it may be FULLY historical one!

Renegade pilots FTW! :-P

mazex
02-03-2011, 07:00 PM
No problem, scripted campaigns are more interesting IMHO.
I hope that the campaign isn´t too short.(probably it covers BoB day-by-day)

Yes - and in a dynamic campaign the 15:th of September might be a day with just a few recon planes appearing over England... Talk about immersion killer ;)

Bring on a scripted campaign with all the correct attacks and let you follow the true flights of one of the more famous squadrons. Add some historic background with some images at the END of the day telling what really happened, but not before. That would be just awesome... In a dynamic campaign, what could possibly happen that would be more interesting than the reality accept if you could be the germans and have a strategic interface where you could control the targets etc and then fly the missions yourself. Keep pounding the radars and the airfields and see what happens? Then add the real production rate and pilot fatigue for the poor Spitfire pilots and see if you can get the invasion started ;) That's another game though!

barbalaappa
02-03-2011, 07:23 PM
Really disappointing news, but hopefully there'll be something really mindblowing later on. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for the Holy Grail of campaign modes: Living, breathing strategic campaign (choise between historical and fully dynamic), with occassional scripted missions injected into it. Playable in solo and co-op both ofcourse ;)

Also, if the devs aren't planning to develop more dynamic campaigns, I hope this is something Oleg will let to be modded by third parties at some point in the future <Drifts of to a daydream of CoD+Merlin Air Combat Engine from BoBII:WoV...>

whatnot
02-03-2011, 08:05 PM
I wish there would be some kind of happy medium where dynamic and scripted would blended together and offer the best of two worlds. For example, everything is played out historically day by day BUT you have control over your squadron, loadouts, type of mission to be conducted and maybe some superficial management overall. Maybe one day...

Did a squadron commander have control over mission types? I recon those orders come from above, like "Bomb factory X in Y at 09:30." And then you'd pick up how you'd conduct that in terms of routes, altitudes etc, but dunno.

I would love the concept of a pilot roster to get affected to and career development of some sort. But I'm quite ok with scripted stuff too, just want my CoD and I want it now! ;-)

But I haven't seen much dynamic action in the IL-2 campaigns I've played.. I wonder if I've missed all the fun by not clicking the right buttons!? I get an order/briefing, I select layouts and off I go with a pre-determined mission plans etc. I haven't detected dynamic nature in a sense of x-amount of troops & squadrons in the theater that move & perish according to the success of missions around. That's dynamic in my books.

LukeFF
02-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Well, isn't IL2 Cliffs of Dover multiplayer the new, "dynamic campaign, " if you will? What need is there of a dynamic campaign when you can have a persistent campaign online, that can go on for weeks or longer, against real people? Seems a lot more exciting than going against AI.

Because there are people who have either not the time or inclination for multiplayer, including myself.

Necrobaron
02-03-2011, 08:55 PM
To say I am disappointed that there's no dynamic campaign upon release would be an understatement. However, I am not surprised, especially considering Luthier's recent hinting of a love story in the campaign. I can't really see how that might happen in anything other than a static, scripted campaign format.

For now, I'll just hope that we'll get a nice dynamic campaign at a later date, as was the case with Forgotten Battles. Frankly, for campaigns, I prefer plausible dynamically generated "what if" scenarios in historical settings over strict recreations of actual battles. For me, the latter is better for "Single Missions" like IL-2 had. Let the campaign begin with whatever resources and manpower were available to Britain and Germany in the summer/autumn of 1940 and then let a nice, robust campaign generator allow the chips to fall where they may.

Trumper
02-03-2011, 09:27 PM
Yes - and in a dynamic campaign the 15:th of September might be a day with just a few recon planes appearing over England... Talk about immersion killer ;)


AAHHH ,you are looking at this from a modern perspective looking back with hindsight.
In 1940 those pilots strapped in not having a clue what they would see,meet, let alone whether they would survive the next hour .
If you are going to get immersed into a real campaign you have to unlearn all you know and start afresh in the present.
Just because it is only a couple of recon planes if you get them they can't report home,if you don't get them ,well what happens next may be down to that.
I really do hope it is only postponed to get it correct and patched in somepoint soon.
Most players will be looking and learning all the features and eye candy for a month then you will see how deep below the surface the game really is.:)
Really should be included soon after s those that can't or don't want to fly online don't have to :)

mmaruda
02-03-2011, 11:15 PM
Most recent flight sims have dropped dynamic campaigns. I think it's a good idea, the static one at least can have some immersive briefings instead of just a set of generic missions. The dynamic campaings in IL-2 feel a bit boring. Fly here, get back to base, fly there circle around for a few minutes, get back to base, fly there... oh wait... there's enemy fighters! Oh, just two of them... Nah, dynamic campaigns just don't feel right when it comes to immersion, a good static campaign can at least tell an interesting story.

Feathered_IV
02-04-2011, 03:33 AM
What a kick in the guts for me. Should be a sticker on the box: SOUL NOT INCLUDED. Kiss goodbye any chance of squad and crew management of any kind. It will just be QMB with longer flight times and Il-2 briefings.

Blackdog_kt
02-04-2011, 05:01 AM
My personal preference would be a mix between a dynamic and a scripted campaign.

Missions would be generated dynamically and the player's actions would have an effect in his area of operations but not the entire front, while at the same time the end result would be predetermined (eg, the axis forces would never be able to get the invasion underway) and you'd get some scripted historical missions thrown in at the relevant dates and/if you were flying for the appropriate squadrons that took part in the action.

Something like this has been done as early as the 90s with sims like aces over europe and aces of the pacific: you got a random string of campaign missions and even some encounters with aces, but at the relevant times you would get a scripted historical mission that was exactly the same as those listed under the "historical missions" tab in the "single missions" part of the main menu.

It has also been done in silent hunter III . I'm not sure if it hapened with a modded version, but the stock engine did have built-in support for that kind of thing. In fact, one of the modding teams edited text files and by input of historical dates they recreated an exact schedule of wartime convoys and even capital ship appearances in famous battles.

The most amazing thing i saw was a forum post on subsim.com where a player posted some of his screenshots from one of his patrols. He was returning to his home base and suddenly the game started running a bit slower and the sonarman calling out contacts like crazy. The guy goes into the plotting table view, snaps a screenshot of a bunch of contacts and then it strikes you: the date on the bottom right of the interface reads June 6th 1944.
So, in a sim with a totally dynamic creation of ship traffic, you were still able to stumble upon the D-Day invasion fleet among other scripted historical events.

Such an approach would be good because it's not as canned as a fully static campaign, yet it's also not as ahistorical as a fully dynamic one. Just throw in the well known actions in a scripted format and keep the rest of it dynamic to have the best of both worlds ;)

In any case, as far as CoD is concerned that's going to be down the line and not on initial release, so maybe we should take advantage of the delay and keep suggesting things.

Just because the initial version only has a static campaign doesn't mean it will stay that way. The original IL2 was similar to that, the dynamic campaigns came with an expansion later on. Let's take advantage of the time window and give some ideas for the campaign modes we'd like to see. I proposed something, someone else might propose something different like a falcon4 or a bob:wov style campaign that merges strategy elements into it and the player plans out the actions for the entire theater. We can do that you know, because apparently they are still working on it and it's not finished ;)

We can give some ideas and run some polls to formulate a community opinion on what a dynamic campaign should be when it comes in a few months, or we can just use these months to complain that we didn't get a bug-ridden and poorly done version of it immediately.

Just keep a positive outlook on things is all i'm saying, especially since there have been other simulator releases that were far more incomplete than CoD. It's not like we're lacking the dynamic campaign AND the flyables AND an easy way to make missions of our own with the relevant AI units. Sure, we're missing some stuff but the majority of the content is there and the rest is already done up to a point and not still on the drawing board, which is more than can be said about the state of silent hunter 5 or the slow pace of RoF during its initial months of circulation (a very similar case, since they too were forced to release RoF early for financial reasons).

I hate having a potentially perfect yet incomplete game prevent me from really enjoying it just as much as the next guy but let's be reasonable here, if you managed to have a good time with 4 flyables and almost no AI units of note or a single U-boat type for the past year, you should have no problem having fun with a dozen flyables and a bunch of AI units to smash in all their physics calculated glory in CoD for a similar amount of time until the dynamic campaign comes along. In fact if you managed the above you're less picky than i am (i own neither RoF nor SH5 because of these reasons) and CoD seems an imperfect but well balanced release to me content-wise :cool:

machoo
02-04-2011, 06:22 AM
Are you really surprised that they have no dynamic campaign? They have said all along that playing the Germans is unwinnable , therefore how dynamic can it be.

LukeFF
02-04-2011, 06:45 AM
Most recent flight sims have dropped dynamic campaigns.

...and yet 777 Studios is preparing to release a huge makeover to their dynamic campaign system for RoF.

Yeah, dynamic campaigns are just sooo passe. :-?

Feathered_IV
02-04-2011, 06:53 AM
Are you really surprised that they have no dynamic campaign? They have said all along that playing the Germans is unwinnable....

People have been saying that for 70 years.
But a dynamic campaign doesn't have to end in victory. You could be posted to NG1, withdrawn for refit, listed as wounded or any one of a dozen things.

Supah
02-04-2011, 07:14 AM
Most recent flight sims have dropped dynamic campaigns. I think it's a good idea, the static one at least can have some immersive briefings instead of just a set of generic missions. The dynamic campaings in IL-2 feel a bit boring. Fly here, get back to base, fly there circle around for a few minutes, get back to base, fly there... oh wait... there's enemy fighters! Oh, just two of them... Nah, dynamic campaigns just don't feel right when it comes to immersion, a good static campaign can at least tell an interesting story.

Wow you just described the life of a average fighter pilot, a lot of pilots rarely saw enemy aircraft. Do you really think every pilot shot down a plane? In certain periods those pilots were the exceptions. A lot of pilots in a lot of theaters never laid eyes on a enemy plane let alone shot one down. I don't care for YET ANOTHER overly dramatic campaign, I've had my fill of those from every single FPS in the last 5 years. O god YET again the player is the person who shoots the evil dictator but wait there is a .... wait for it ... PLOT TWIST. Makes me want to puke.

Sure recent flight sims have ditched dynamic campaigns and they have suffered for it. Take the DCS series who haven't included one as of yet. Take a look at the official forum and you will see a lot of people wanting a DC. The DCS static scripted campaigns is just sad and has no replay value, results from one mission aren't even carried over to the next. I bought DCS A-10C Warthog because I thought it might be fun but the campaigns were so completely boring when used to Falcon 4 I doubt I will ever buy another DCS module again unless Eagle Dynamic or a third party develop a dynamic campaign.

Doubting wether I am going to buy COD on the day of release now, I've spent enough money on flightsims with horrible gameplay elements like campaigns. I'll read some reviews and see what they say, if it's DCS level suckyness I'll wait till it's in the bargain bin.

tintifaxl
02-04-2011, 08:41 AM
Hmh, the one campaign in IL2 I enjoyed the most was "Rebirth of Honour". A scripted campaign. If we get an immersive single player campaign and the online campaign has somekind of squad support (so I and the squadmates can fly as a squad with some stats) and has AI units in it, then I'm pretty content.

Novotny
02-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Damn right Supah! In Half-life it takes 20 minutes of being a research scientist before all hell breaks loose. What a load of crap! There should have been at least five years of shuffling paper and complete silence before, say, one of my colleagues went all kooky and wore tights to work. Alien invasion? As soon as the shooting started I stopped, uninstalled it and swore at my monitor. How unrealistic can you get? I totally puked.

All this fantasy 'having fun' crap is ruining games.

I want to fly CoD for an entire career lasting up to a year in which absolutely nothing happens. Maybe there'll be an incident in which my pay gets held up for two months whilst I sort out some confusion over the exact spelling of my middle name. Perhaps even two months of waiting for parts. If I even fire my guns in the first 3 months of having the title then it's just an arcade game and I hate those.

csThor
02-04-2011, 09:03 AM
No dynamic campaign? Not surprising but still disappointing. Even if they release something later I'm afraid it'll be like the DGen stuff in Il-2 - bolted on as an afterthought. :-?

As for the campaigns shipped with the game ... Knowing what kind of research a decent historical campaign requires I doubt we'll see something that can approach the campaigns Flatspinman or IceFire did for Il-2. :-?

Trumper
02-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Damn right Supah! In Half-life it takes 20 minutes of being a research scientist before all hell breaks loose. What a load of crap! There should have been at least five years of shuffling paper and complete silence before, say, one of my colleagues went all kooky and wore tights to work. Alien invasion? As soon as the shooting started I stopped, uninstalled it and swore at my monitor. How unrealistic can you get? I totally puked.

All this fantasy 'having fun' crap is ruining games.

I want to fly CoD for an entire career lasting up to a year in which absolutely nothing happens. Maybe there'll be an incident in which my pay gets held up for two months whilst I sort out some confusion over the exact spelling of my middle name. Perhaps even two months of waiting for parts. If I even fire my guns in the first 3 months of having the title then it's just an arcade game and I hate those.

i think the problem is that you now won't have the choice ,no-one forces anyone to fly dynamic campaign but now the choice isn't there.

jcenzano
02-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Yes - and in a dynamic campaign the 15:th of September might be a day with just a few recon planes appearing over England... Talk about immersion killer ;)

Bring on a scripted campaign with all the correct attacks and let you follow the true flights of one of the more famous squadrons. Add some historic background with some images at the END of the day telling what really happened, but not before. That would be just awesome... In a dynamic campaign, what could possibly happen that would be more interesting than the reality accept if you could be the germans and have a strategic interface where you could control the targets etc and then fly the missions yourself. Keep pounding the radars and the airfields and see what happens? Then add the real production rate and pilot fatigue for the poor Spitfire pilots and see if you can get the invasion started ;) That's another game though!

well, if you like it so "scriptted" the best thing that Oleg can deliver for you is a movie, and not a game.

I/ZG52_Gaga
02-04-2011, 11:23 AM
sorry i'm confused a bit here ....

so .... what do we get afterall?

Do we get any kind of Off-line Campaign at all?

I mean i don't see any other way for a person

that gets in Pilot seat for the 1st time to learn

how to fly if there are no campaigns of any kind...

And if that doesn't happen we will never get

new blood fast enough to man our Staffels & stuff ...

eh?

Sven
02-04-2011, 11:35 AM
There will be a campaign offline, an Allied one and an Axis one, that has been confirmed, just no dynamic campaign, but with all the talent over at mission and campaign hosting sites we will be entertained for a long time to come:)

Supah
02-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Damn right Supah! In Half-life it takes 20 minutes of being a research scientist before all hell breaks loose. What a load of crap! There should have been at least five years of shuffling paper and complete silence before, say, one of my colleagues went all kooky and wore tights to work. Alien invasion? As soon as the shooting started I stopped, uninstalled it and swore at my monitor. How unrealistic can you get? I totally puked.

All this fantasy 'having fun' crap is ruining games.

I want to fly CoD for an entire career lasting up to a year in which absolutely nothing happens. Maybe there'll be an incident in which my pay gets held up for two months whilst I sort out some confusion over the exact spelling of my middle name. Perhaps even two months of waiting for parts. If I even fire my guns in the first 3 months of having the title then it's just an arcade game and I hate those.

Half-life 2 is hardly a simulation, it is a first person shooter. If you want to be a dick fine, good luck with the rest of your life.

Novotny
02-04-2011, 11:51 AM
And whilst CoD may be a simulation, it is also a game. Lighten up :)

concrete
02-04-2011, 11:52 AM
based on:
-everything that was said at the forum in past 10 years
-original IL2 1946 and everything is in play,
-announced COD and everything is in play COD
-statements made by Oleg that are related to whatever he wont to insert into the game (control of AAA!?)
we (I) can conclude:
COD is less than 10% (or perhaps less than 5%) content of the current IL2 1946 v4.10 which took 10 years to get to this level.
The same principle as it appeared from IL2 v1.0 and how now looks IL2 1946 v4.10 in these 10 years, I am not at all concerned about the lack of (the current lack of) dinamic campaign.

So this is just the beginning and is totally ridiculous to compare the COD and IL2.I am patient and I believe that all desired content will be included in COD

I/ZG52_Gaga
02-04-2011, 11:57 AM
There will be a campaign offline, an Allied one and an Axis one, that has been confirmed, just no dynamic campaign, but with all the talent over at mission and campaign hosting sites we will be entertained for a long time to come:)

Okidoki!!

Fair enough !

thankS! for the info!

addman
02-04-2011, 11:58 AM
I would just like to add that I'm not in need of a campaign where you can change the outcome of a battle/war, I also appreciate history (wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't). Maybe we should even stop calling it "dynamic campaign" and refer to it as an "immersive campaign" instead. I bet that most if not all of us want that. Even the very well made scripted IL-2 campaign had the same problem as the dynamic campaigns, briefing page-choose loadout-press fly button.

Doesn't matter if it's dynamic or scripted, it doesn't make me feel that I'm a part of something. Even the most well written scripted/written campaign didn't makee me care about my commander/wingman/squadron in IL-2. Maybe multiplayer campaign is better in that regard but yet again, I don't want to be dependent on other people on when/how I will play my game. That's why I am mostly offline.

I/ZG52_Gaga
02-04-2011, 12:07 PM
I would just like to add that I'm not in need of a campaign where you can change the outcome of a battle/war.


Excuse me but that sounds very boring ....

My goal is the Decimation of RAF and to rewrite history ... (within the game off course) :)

David603
02-04-2011, 12:45 PM
Excuse me but that sounds very boring ....

My goal is the Decimation of RAF and to rewrite history ... (within the game off course) :)
But how do you propose to do that? In a campaign of this size, no one below strategy making level is able to make changes that have an effect larger than the destruction or survival of a few aircraft, or the successful destruction of individual targets that would otherwise have survived.

Now if you were talking about something like the defence of Malta, then a squadron leader might actually have the power to change the overall results of the battle, but not here.

Feathered_IV
02-04-2011, 01:03 PM
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10993

I find it amazing that out of 40 pages of suggestions that (Luthier asked for btw) the end result that he came away with was "renegade" RAF pilots and a love story. It's stupefying really.

I/ZG52_Gaga
02-04-2011, 01:04 PM
But how do you propose to do that? In a campaign of this size, no one below strategy making level is able to make changes that have an effect larger than the destruction or survival of a few aircraft, or the successful destruction of individual targets that would otherwise have survived.

Now if you were talking about something like the defence of Malta, then a squadron leader might actually have the power to change the overall results of the battle, but not here.

LOL no idea ... i guess i have to wait for the title to be released to find out ....

zauii
02-04-2011, 01:26 PM
Doesn't bother me the sligthest , dynamic campaigns are overrated.

winny
02-04-2011, 01:27 PM
LOL no idea ... i guess i have to wait for the title to be released to find out ....

You'd need to start by sacking Goering and Beppo Schmidt, then you might just have a chance..

I/ZG52_Gaga
02-04-2011, 01:33 PM
You'd need to start by sacking Goering and Beppo Schmidt, then you might just have a chance..

LMAO yes listening to a heroin adict is always catastrophic ... :P

David603
02-04-2011, 01:51 PM
You'd need to start by sacking Goering and Beppo Schmidt, then you might just have a chance..
Heck, I was wrong that one pilot couldn't have a big effect on the war.

You could always make a mistake and bomb one of Goering's rallies instead of the target range :grin: :cool:

Necrobaron
02-05-2011, 01:14 AM
I just remembered: Wasn't it said ages ago that our planes would start to dynamically show wear and tear over time? Without a dynamic campaign, I wonder how that'll work. Makes me wonder if there's some sort of hybrid, scripted campaign with some dynamic elements.

jannaspookie
02-05-2011, 05:14 AM
I just remembered: Wasn't it said ages ago that our planes would start to dynamically show wear and tear over time? Without a dynamic campaign, I wonder how that'll work. Makes me wonder if there's some sort of hybrid, scripted campaign with some dynamic elements.


I had that same thought. Perhaps we'll get a nice compromise (just have to wait and see...)

machoo
02-05-2011, 06:14 AM
Well , the Germans can't win . Oleg said this , so are you surprised that we have no Dynamic campaign?

addman
02-05-2011, 08:14 AM
I just remembered: Wasn't it said ages ago that our planes would start to dynamically show wear and tear over time? Without a dynamic campaign, I wonder how that'll work. Makes me wonder if there's some sort of hybrid, scripted campaign with some dynamic elements.

Actually, Oleg showed us pictures of the mission builder -couple a months ago I think- and in one of the picture you could see a "weathering slider" so there you go! "Weathering on a slider, for your convenience" :grin:

addman
02-05-2011, 08:17 AM
Well , the Germans can't win . Oleg said this , so are you surprised that we have no Dynamic campaign?

Of course the Germans can win, just create your own campaign, defeat the RAF. There are ground units -from both sides- in the game but crossing that narrow strip of water with the whole of the Royal Navy in your way might be a bit problematic. Especially if your troops are on river barges LOL!

machoo
02-05-2011, 08:29 AM
Of course the Germans can win, just create your own campaign, defeat the RAF. There are ground units -from both sides- in the game but crossing that narrow strip of water with the whole of the Royal Navy in your way might be a bit problematic. Especially if your troops are on river barges LOL!



Off topic , I see you are from Vasa. Do you know a certain Greger Huttu?

jpinard
02-05-2011, 07:57 PM
But how do you propose to do that? In a campaign of this size, no one below strategy making level is able to make changes that have an effect larger than the destruction or survival of a few aircraft, or the successful destruction of individual targets that would otherwise have survived.

Now if you were talking about something like the defence of Malta, then a squadron leader might actually have the power to change the overall results of the battle, but not here.

We had three games from 20 years ago that did a good job with this. Based on your mission success/failure it amplified the results of the missions set for that day. Once you were skilled enough, you were promited to commander and able to set priorities for missions. One big mistake the Germans made was not focusing enough "contiued" effort on airfields, radar, and planes on the ground. As a commander of the Luftwaffe you would change this and see if history would have played out differently. These 3 games were brilliant (for their time) at accomplishing this:

Their Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain (http://www.mobygames.com/game/their-finest-hour-the-battle-of-britain)

Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/secret-weapons-of-the-luftwaffe)

B-17 Flying Fortress: the Mighty 8th (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/b-17-flying-fortress-the-mighty-8th)

addman
02-05-2011, 08:54 PM
Off topic , I see you are from Vasa. Do you know a certain Greger Huttu?

Never heard the name before, should I have? I'm from Sweden originally so haven't lived here for so long yet. Maybe I'll bump into him LOL!

machoo
02-05-2011, 09:20 PM
He's a extremely famous sim racer , goto any racing forum and put in his name and everyone will know him. Just google his name and google has a melt down :)

TacKY
02-06-2011, 08:03 PM
No purchase from me then until they make one. Dynamic campaigns are the reason I play IL 2. It is immersive as hell to use the Dynamic Campaign Generator and be on a bombing run to Germany with 150 planes in game at once then when the mission is over to check and see if the guy that saved your life in the last mission had survived. It also allows for unlimited replay value. The online campaign sounds good but for me it will never replace a good dynamic campaign.

Novotny
02-06-2011, 08:19 PM
One thing to consider, Tacky, is that without sales, there may never be a dynamic campaign. If you like the genre, consider purchasing.

Blackdog_kt
02-07-2011, 02:57 AM
I think we all need to weigh things at their appropriate value.

I too would like a dynamic campaign.
I don't believe that just because we're a niche gaming genre we should just accept what's served to us either.

That being said, there's a thing called track record and the ability to make reasonable assumptions about future developments and installments in the series.

Long story short, if a new studio came up and didn't include certain features then i might be tempted to wait it out or not purchase at all, although in most cases if i don't have a problem with how the game functions and its business model i'll probably buy it.
In this particular case, we have a development team that has both a well proven track record and a stated desire to follow on the footsteps of the original IL2 series as far as business model and expansions are concerned.

Explanation? I bought IL2 back in 2001 and it didn't have a dynamic campaign. It had other things though and i divided my time between IL2 and european air war in order to cover all the features i wanted. After some time the IL2 team started churning out expansions and free patches, so it caught up and i stopped flying EAW.

It is the stated goal of the team (they've said so countless times on this forum) to do a similar thing with CoD: release a version with the basics in a state that's playable, functional and not too lacking in any single aspect, then improve things as time goes by. Fine by me, i'll divide my time between IL2 an CoD until the new series can catch up.

Why should we believe them? I do because a) they've pulled off the same thing before and b) the major work of building a new game engine from the ground up is complete, in fact to such an extent that it had to be scaled down to run on current PCs.
The meaning of this is simple: they might need to do some minor tweaking work as time goes by to possibly accommodate newer hardware, but for the most part the engine is good for the next couple of years, so they'll only focus on enriching the content.

I definitely love a good dynamic campaign with immersive elements like the one in red baron 2, even the one in EAW was good although it was repetitive (but that was also realistic, certain squads mostly flew a certain type of mission). However, the lack of it is not something that will prevent me from enjoying the rest of CoD's features.

The way i see it, no single feature is capable of sapping my interest in this sim on its own. If it was a combination of missing features then yes, i'd have a problem, but as long as the sum of what's there weighs more on my personal scale than the sum of what's not, i can buy it and happily wait for the rest.

Whatever simulators i didn't buy the last couple of years, i made the decision not to buy with a similar mindset. I didn't exclude them for just one feature, but for a combination of features.

Some questions i ask myself before buying usually go like this:

Does it have realistic FM/DM?
Does it have extra features on top of FM/DM that tie in with how the modeled war machines in question operate?
What do the graphics/sounds/effects look like?
What does the campaign system look like?
Can i use it whenever i want to with little or no restrictions (ie DRM and stuff)?
What are the system requirements?
Does it deliver a good hardware to performance and quality ratio?
How is the customer support handled?
How are the add-ons handled in regards to delivery methods, pricing and content?
Does it have enough player controlled and AI units out of the box to enable a sufficiently accurate representation of the chosen theater of operations?

Etc, etc.

With the exception of the FM/DM which is the defining feature of the simulator genre (that is, you can make arcade games with WWII airplanes and still include most of the other features apart from the FM/DM), i can compromise on the rest. All of them? No, some of them and not particular ones.

If i am missing 2-3 features that i have a pretty good possibility of seeing added in the future (a possibility usually judged from the developer's track record and stated goals), then i go out and buy a new sim.
If it lacks enough flyables, has a low count of AI units, a rudimentary campaign, a hassle of a DRM scheme, is buggy, has an uncertain future that might leave me with an unsupported (or even unusable in the case of online verification) game and i have to fund it through the development of core components of the game engine through DLC purchases, then i don't buy it. But if it survives and there's a way to fix these drawbacks, i might reconsider and purchase at a later date.

There's a lot of room for variation, so i don't see why all of a sudden there's a bunch of people going "i won't buy" based on a single feature. I'm not saying what's important to me must be equally important to everyone else since it's a matter of taste. In fact, what i'm saying is not what you should base your decisions on, but how many of those things you like and expect to see in a new sim are actually there.
I just can't understand why we should base our decisions on the inclusion or lack of one single thing among many equally important ones :grin:

Acid
02-07-2011, 12:33 PM
I definitely love a good dynamic campaign with immersive elements like the one in red baron 2 :

i agree, what made that game fun was its dynamic campaign and pilot career mode lot of depth to it. The awards and medals you gained through skill and not just given them through some scripted event, im hoping they'll have something like this in CoD, if not on release later on.

Flying Pencil
02-07-2011, 03:09 PM
Will the game feature a dynamical campaign?
No, at least not in the initial release of the game.

Even if CoD is only 1/2 as good as IL-2, chances are DC will be implemented later.

BigC208
02-07-2011, 08:01 PM
The reason a lot of people say they're not going to buy the game is they think they can force certain things into the game before release. Too late!
Most fence sitters and malcontents will be back on board within a week after release when they read how great all the features are, that did make it in. If the release mimmicks RoF launch, all bets are off. I remember playing the RoF demo when it was just released and that was not a pretty experience. Took untill the Iron Cross Edition for me to open the wallet. If the RoF team had the track record Oleg has, I would 've bought right away.

For the diehards it won't make any difference. We trust Oleg to make this game the best WWII simulator money can buy.

Pips
02-07-2011, 09:39 PM
Ok, so there will be no dynamic campaign upon release of COD.

So the burning question now is ....... what does the static campaign include?
* How many missions will a pilot fly?
* On some days, there were several raids. Will that be mirrored?
* Does the campaign run from July to October?
* What RAF Groups are selectable? Just 11 Group? Or also 10 and 12?
* How many Squadrons can I choose to fly with?
* Will the missions accurately reflect the actual actions on the day, as regards to aircraft types,numbers, targets and locale?


I guess what I'm getting at is will the planned campaign follow the real actions of the BoB? Such as outlined here: http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/contents-index.html

If so, I can live with that! :)