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arjisme
01-23-2011, 06:09 PM
We have all seen the weekly updates for many months now and they are always focused on the appearance of the new sim. But what is the word on how the flight modeling will be? Is it going to be different from what was in IL-2? Any idea on if it will feel even more like natural flight that what we've experienced with IL-2?

Sepp
01-23-2011, 06:13 PM
We have all seen the weekly updates for many months now and they are always focused on the appearance of the new sim. But what is the word on how the flight modeling will be? Is it going to be different from what was in IL-2? Any idea on if it will feel even more like natural flight that what we've experienced with IL-2?

Natural flight is for feathered creatures... :?

The Kraken
01-23-2011, 06:30 PM
FWIW many reports from Igromir visitors have described the flight models as more refined and more difficult, and definitely different from Il2. Considering that people mostly played briefly in a different environment from what they were used to from their home setup, it's hard to say what that means in the end. Then again there were quite a lot of such reports so I'd assume there was some truth in it.

arjisme
01-23-2011, 11:48 PM
FWIW many reports from Igromir visitors have described the flight models as more refined and more difficult, and definitely different from Il2. Considering that people mostly played briefly in a different environment from what they were used to from their home setup, it's hard to say what that means in the end. Then again there were quite a lot of such reports so I'd assume there was some truth in it.Thanks for that. I hadn't seen those reports. I'm actually pretty surprised at the general lack of discussion here about the FMs, actually. It is a flight sim after all. This is going to be one of the most important things to get right in SoW, as far as I am concerned. If it looks beautiful, breathtaking, superlative, etc. but the FM is lacking, I can't see spending a lot of time playing the game. I am not trying to be negative here -- my hope and expectation is that Oleg is taking care that the FM is top quality. So I'm buying the game when it comes out. But, again, I just haven't seen a lot of discussion about that and I don't know if that is due to a lack of interest or exactly why.

Edit:
Natural flight is for feathered creatures... :?
Sure, my choice of words was probably not best. I'm looking for whether the FM will be improved over IL-2, improving the sense of realism.

Wutz
01-24-2011, 05:58 AM
Oh man what are you fellows smoking?? The game is not even out yet none of us have ever played it so that every comment is only guess work.....what next, will the pigs in CoD have the proper load out? And can they out run a Spitfire 5000lbs? Has a sack of rice toppeled over in China? Will a Napkin fall properly? Will the cows make proper cow pies? One could just as well speculate will Spaceball 1 join in with ludacris speed?

Royraiden
01-24-2011, 06:07 AM
For a game that has been in process for so long and now due for less than 2 months I would also like to know what exactly are the changes or improvements to the FM.The op post is as legit as any other,he is just asking.There's a lot of intolerance in this forum,I didnt expect this.

Biggs [CV]
01-24-2011, 06:18 AM
Sometimes the best answer is the simplest. " What will the flight models be like in COD?" Knowing Oleg the best answer is: Accurate.

Feathered_IV
01-24-2011, 07:42 AM
Natural flight is for feathered creatures... :?

Yes indeed. ;)

Sepp
01-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Sure, my choice of words was probably not best. I'm looking for whether the FM will be improved over IL-2, improving the sense of realism.

No, no, your words were alright. :)

I was just teasing you. ;)

Besides bats or flies don’t have any feathers. :confused:

On a more serious tone.

I also expect the flight models to be as accurate as our platforms allow it.

No less.

Edit:

Yes indeed. ;)

:)

ATAG_Bliss
01-24-2011, 01:15 PM
;215848']Sometimes the best answer is the simplest. " What will the flight models be like in COD?" Knowing Oleg the best answer is: Accurate.

Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner!

I think there'll be many people that post here that haven't followed along with IL2 and with the development of Cliffs of Dover. (Basically Oleg's method of madness) It takes a bit of time on the forums to realize just how painstakingly anal Oleg is about everything. Just look at the animation of the pilot ejecting. The pilot's boots even wrinkle as his legs bend. Oleg is nuts, but in a good way ;)

@ the OP

I don't think you'll find that many FM questions brought up here unless the FM doesn't match the flight test data upon release. The huge majority of IL2's FM is spot on. It's safe to assume the FM in CoD will also be painstakingly accurate.

Flanker35M
01-24-2011, 03:24 PM
S!

If you look at the Igromir videos closely you can easily see that most of the guys flying the sim had almost no clue what they were doing or used hamfisted inputs = lot's of stalls etc. Or plainly just gave a quick grab'n'go to the game. And if the FM was not at full there, even more so. I bet most of the guys here have thousands of hours behind the joystick and that they would not yank/bank the planes like those guys there.

I expect a lot better FM/DM from CoD over IL-2. Soon we will see.

arjisme
01-24-2011, 04:23 PM
Oh man what are you fellows smoking?? The game is not even out yet none of us have ever played it so that every comment is only guess work.....what next, will the pigs in CoD have the proper load out? And can they out run a Spitfire 5000lbs? Has a sack of rice toppeled over in China? Will a Napkin fall properly? Will the cows make proper cow pies? One could just as well speculate will Spaceball 1 join in with ludacris speed?
I see. So no interest in even discussing what Oleg has said about something as fundamental to a combat flight sim as a flight model. Thanks for playing.

;215848']Sometimes the best answer is the simplest. " What will the flight models be like in COD?" Knowing Oleg the best answer is: Accurate.

Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner!

[...]

I don't think you'll find that many FM questions brought up here unless the FM doesn't match the flight test data upon release. The huge majority of IL2's FM is spot on. It's safe to assume the FM in CoD will also be painstakingly accurate.
I get that there is a lot of faith that the FMs will be excellent. That is my hope too. But I haven't seen a lot of discussion about it and was looking for anything people know that would indicate, beyond faith, that the FMs will be "even better." I have been flying RoF these last several months and the first thing that struck me about that sim was how much more (than IL-2) it created the sense of actual flying. So, considering the imminent release of CoD, I suddenly have a little worry that it could mean going back to a FM that feels less convincing.

As I said, I will be buying the game and will certainly know a lot more then. Just was wanting to know if any meaningful discussions had been had regarding the FM in CoD.

Sepp
01-24-2011, 07:26 PM
For me this is an essential feature of this game.

The idea that this game tries to be as faithful as possible flight-model-wise is one of the things that captivates my interest most.

zauii
01-24-2011, 07:39 PM
Its obviously gonna be improved, refined and better than the original IL2.

CharveL
01-24-2011, 08:09 PM
Let's put it this way: we know that Oleg has spent a good deal of time adding more factors to the flight model that were not possible in IL2 and refined the algorithms to more accurately model the mechanics of flight.

As to the accuracy of FM's to your particular favourite plane, expect the b1tching about some bias or other to be no less than it was for the last ten years of IL2.

If your favourite plane's performance is somewhat less in the sim than you wish it to be based on all the books you may have read, pilot interviews, movies seen and charts pored over, than the FM's will suck, and we'll read about it here.

arjisme
01-24-2011, 08:26 PM
Let's put it this way: we know that Oleg has spent a good deal of time adding more factors to the flight model that were not possible in IL2 and refined the algorithms to more accurately model the mechanics of flight.

As to the accuracy of FM's to your particular favourite plane, expect the b1tching about some bias or other to be no less than it was for the last ten years of IL2.

If your favourite plane's performance is somewhat less in the sim than you wish it to be based on all the books you may have read, pilot interviews, movies seen and charts pored over, than the FM's will suck, and we'll read about it here.That's hopeful news as I had not read anything about him adjusting the physics modeling of flight.

As to bitching -- that's for bitches. :-)

My concerns here are not about whether the flying performance for any given plane matches my expectations. But whatever it is it should still feel like flight.

mazex
01-24-2011, 08:47 PM
If I remember it correctly we got the BoB FM in the 4.01 patch from mid 2005 so we already have it ;)

From the 4.01 readme:

"4.01 introduces the next generation pre-Battle of Britain Flight Model (FM). In this add-on we are introducing a part of the FM from our next simulation."

Seriously - IL2 is good enough so any improvement is just a bonus. Sure the turbulence handling could need some tweaking and the ground handling feels a bit "scripted"... And maybe some multi engine prop/torque stuff... And... :)

Heliocon
01-24-2011, 09:37 PM
I think this question reverberates on more than one level, I would love to see more dev involvement in the forums or atleast more videos/english interviews for features and gameplay. I feel there is just so much we dont know yet :(

Manuc
01-24-2011, 11:46 PM
who cares about the FM when the grass has a wrong colour

CharveL
01-25-2011, 01:09 AM
I think this question reverberates on more than one level, I would love to see more dev involvement in the forums or atleast more videos/english interviews for features and gameplay. I feel there is just so much we dont know yet :(

And I want a pony!

ElAurens
01-25-2011, 02:18 AM
And I want a pony!

Here you go Charv!!!

http://horsebreedslist.com/horse_breed_images/84/big/shetland-pony-picture-7.jpg

:grin:

OK, honestly, with the amount of detail being poured in to the 3D models, and by extension the damage models, I think it will be safe to say that the FMs will be among the best ever experienced in a prop sim.

The simple fact that Oleg is including the Sukhoi 26 aerobatic aircraft in the sim should be a big clue. There is more known about the SU 26's flight envelope and characteristics than just about any propeller driven aircraft ever made. Putting it in the sim is a pretty bold statement by Oleg on the veracity of the FMs.

http://www.airmuseumsuk.org/airshow/2004/Rougham2004/800/images/130%20Sukhoi%20SU-26%20M2%20G-SIID.jpg

JG4_Helofly
01-25-2011, 02:59 AM
I must agree with ElAurens. The SU 26 could be the benchmark. If there is something wrong with the FM, then you can check. Of course other planes can be flawed, but at least it's possible to verifie how the general physics model holdes up.

Btw. Has Oleg ever shown a scrennshot of the Su 26? I don't recall.

ElAurens
01-25-2011, 03:03 AM
The only images I recall were renders in 3D Max.

David603
01-25-2011, 03:05 AM
The Su-26 was in one of the Igromir videos. I will try to find it.

CharveL
01-25-2011, 03:43 AM
Yes, some characteristics of the new FM was introduced to one of the later IL2 patches but:

A) I'll bet dimes to donuts that only some of the new characteristics were applied to the old engine, and

B) Those FM aspects were quite early implementations, and

C) The fidelity of those flight characteristics were less due to the limitations of the old IL2 engine than we will see in CoD.

I think we'll see new factors like torque and perhaps wind gusts as well as drastically improved high altitude modeling amongst many other things that will subtlely, yet drastically alter how you fly in the new sim. How they get tuned for accuracy is anyone's guess and likely the subject of future patches and whinges.

When you factor in the incredible detail to damage modeling and new AI characteristics, radar, etc. I think we're in for some good times.

Yet it seems so many here are more concerned about visual details.

If Oleg & crew play their cards right - and to be honest, things like the user interface is where many eastern European and Russian developers struggle - 1C may just hit the holy grail for demographic crossover with CoD. If the difficulty scaleability they're shooting for, along with a solid user interface and fun factor works out just right, they may be able to win over the casual (read: console) gamer as well which will be a home-run for the industry as a whole.

If it wasn't for the sheer dedication and determination of lower budget Russian and Euro developers flight sims would either be dead or 10 years behind but UI's and game-flow are often an afterthought.

Personally I could almost care less and be happy with the exquisite FM, DM, etc. detail but if Oleg, Ilya and crew manage to nail the rest of it then look out...