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View Full Version : Something about new "CoD" title that is truly abisimal.


Flying Pencil
01-18-2011, 12:38 AM
It was kind of bugging me, but another post made me do it.

The inclusion of "IL-2 Sturmovik" under the title.

IL-2 Sturmovik is a name of an airplane, and the original game is named after that famous airplane and focused on that part of the that particular airplane was heavily used in. For that, the IL-2 Sturmovik name was ideal.

Now it is being used for this new game.
The Battle of Britain did not have that airplane in it. It had no Russian airplanes flying in that battle, and is 1000's of KM away from Russia!

using the established Brand you say?
Their is a huge difference between
"New Title, XYZ" and
"New Title, from the makers of XYZ" (this is ideal)


Not unlike Intel recycling its "Pentium" name, even though by the time Pentium 4 came out it was completely different then the original Pentium (and made it sound like Intel was reusing an old CPU and not make a new one).


IL-2 is an excellent game, but BoB:SoW / CoD needs to be absolutely clear it is something far better, and brand new!

/rant
(I feel better now, thank you)

Chivas
01-18-2011, 12:49 AM
I agree but IL-2 Sturmovik is the only established name brand they have. Your obviously right that the IL-2 wasn't in BOB, but it will be featured in a later version of the new IL-2 series. I also agree that the IL-2 name could confuse some people, between the new and old series, but most in the combat flight sim community realize the difference, while others outside the community wouldn't know what an IL-2 Sturmovik is, will be drawn by the Box Art.

But your right there still will be confusion.

Richie
01-18-2011, 12:50 AM
This has been covered in the other thread aint it guys?

Tempest123
01-18-2011, 12:51 AM
I understand that it makes little sense outright, but "Il2 Sturmovik" is not only the name of a plane, its also a brand name that people have come to recognize. Unfortunately it was given to console and arcade games too, and it is perhaps time to let that name go. However I suspect that ic Maddox really need this to be a success and SELL, and having the recognized Il2 name behind it will do that better than any other name.

WTE_Galway
01-18-2011, 01:20 AM
Not unlike Intel recycling its "Pentium" name, even though by the time Pentium 4 came out it was completely different then the original Pentium (and made it sound like Intel was reusing an old CPU and not make a new one).

(I feel better now, thank you)



Yes well, You cannot trademark or copyright just a number by itself. Hence Intel need to move away from the 286/386/486 designations. They chose "Celeron", "Pentium" and later of course "Xeon".

These days the marketing hype has been about terms like "Core Duo" "Core i5" and so forth.

IceFire
01-18-2011, 01:55 AM
I suspect the name also signals that we'll be going back to the Eastern Front a lot sooner than we expected.

Which I'm quite alright with... I've learned to love it (from originally not having any interest in it at all) from a historical perspective.

ECV56_Lancelot
01-18-2011, 01:57 AM
... However I suspect that ic Maddox really need this to be a success and SELL, and having the recognized Il2 name behind it will do that better than any other name.

With saying "From the makers of IL-2 Sturmovik" will be enough to atract those who recognise the IL-2 franchise.
They could even add "...creating the NEXT Generation of flight simulation..." and it would also be even better.
The name of the thing is a pure marketing thing, and for flight sim veterans completely unimportant, but i also think it's a horrible decission this new name.

MikeC1980
01-18-2011, 02:22 AM
My concern would be that people might think its just another addon for tired old IL-2, when its actually a brand spanking new game.

Tacoma74
01-18-2011, 02:45 AM
Yes, this should be treated as a completely new series of flight sims. Keeping the "IL-2 Sturmovik" title will be confusing for those who are new to 1946, and new to flight sims in general. Although i am already sold, i do have to say i like the "Storm of War" title alot better. And seeing as that has been the name to be for this game for the past 5 years I think thats what should be used. A name change right b4 release doesn't seem like a smart decision to me... but i'm sure Oleg and Ubisoft both have some sort of reasons for this that we are all missing.

major_setback
01-18-2011, 04:26 AM
3 months from now:

"I just bought Pacific Fighters, but it won't install into Cliffs of Dover.
Nor 1946 either. I tried buying the Complete Edition just to save trouble, but I can't even find CoD in it! Help please.

BTW, what is a Storm of Vik?"

Robotic Pope
01-18-2011, 06:19 AM
3 months from now:

"I just bought Pacific Fighters, but it won't install into Cliffs of Dover.
Nor 1946 either. I tried buying the Complete Edition just to save trouble, but I can't even find CoD in it! Help please.

BTW, what is a Storm of Vik?"

:lol:

Its difficult one. You want to use the popularity and recognition of the IL2 Sturmovik series but the problem is the name was never chosen to be a "brand" and is rather limiting and confusing as one. You can't just put a 2 after the name like most movies and games do and you have a title object that isn't relevant to the subject.

I think keeping the same title IL2 sturmovik will be a very confusing to newcomers, an example: I know nothing about Harry Potter, From just the names I couldn't tell you which was the first film, which was the latest film or the order of any film in between.

What I would do is compromise. Take the IL-2 designation out of the title. That just leaves you with a recognisable name that is now a russian word having a meaning (Stormer) rather than a name of a curently irrelevant plane. You could then give it a sequential number, IL-2 being Sturmovik 1.
You could then do
Sturmovik 2: Cliffs of Dover.
Sturmovik 2: Eastern front.
Sturmovik 2: Sahara
Sturmovik 2: 1950
This differentiates game 1 expansions from game 2 expansions. Without this things will get very confusing even for IL-2 fans in future as the game expands.

Anyone think we should do a vote on this?

robtek
01-18-2011, 07:25 AM
You people have too much spare time and energy trying to solve someone elses imaginated problems. :-D :-D :-D

ZaltysZ
01-18-2011, 07:52 AM
Anyone think we should do a vote on this?

It won't change anything.

Robotic Pope
01-18-2011, 08:23 AM
You people have too much spare time and energy trying to solve someone elses imaginated problems. :-D :-D :-D

Huh? That is rather impolite. It is a problem if almost everybody thinks it is so. Most people here are not thinking about themselves but instead new future players. Just because you know which game is which does not mean that someone in 5-10 years will.

ZaltysZ, no a vote probably wont do anything, but it would get a idea on how many people think naming the new game under IL-2 Sturmovik is a bad thing.

hiro
01-18-2011, 08:32 AM
I agree. The title is misleading. When I think of Call of Duty, I and every other CoD fan always remembers the 1940 era infantry action and game of year every year it's released. Pwnage.

Oleg said it best in one of his interviews, "No infantry, this is flight sim." But I digress.

Call of Duty makes first person simmers remember World War 2. CoD 2, same era. COD 3 was set there, but they also had a zombie patch. And for the second great war, the series was named for call of duty because every able man had to do their part. And for that era, it was applicable. Call of Duty name is epitome to World War 2.

Now it is selected for a new game.

Modern Warfare does not have a "Call of Duty." It does in a sense, that most successful standing armies are volunteer, but now it is not a call because of the whole world fighting a war or your country will fall if you don't help it scenario.

Name branding you think?

There's a difference between descriptive names and new names
Call of Duty Modern Warfare, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2

and Modern Warfare Black Ops from the makers of Call of Duty 3, and this is optimal naming convention.

Not unlike having standard naming conventions like .com or .org or file extensions limited to 3 characters, because that is too limiting and new files and new Internets are completely changed from the original Internet and files.
(makes it seem 1990 going back to the old school because it's so cool).

Plus we are humans not robots and nobody cares about organization, and standardization, conventions, and it is always about the new and shiny, and different to stand out in the crowd, independent skate trucks. That is why jets, Italian carriers, Nazi super weapons, nukes, partly guided missiles, and rockets and pogos make the best part of 1946.

Call of Duty is an excellent series, but Modern Warfare and CoD needs to be absolutely clear it is for current, todays date, here and now, infantry actions, not World War II, new shiny best sim.


/TIC
tongue in cheek

Ltbear
01-18-2011, 08:58 AM
geeez....

*maddox combat airplane simulation*

*Russian world war 2 virtual combat*

*forum virtual super aces*

I would have no problem with IL2 on the box.....if you get confused by the box...you proberbly will be to confused to fly the planes......Where have you seen that IT IS THE BOX!!.....its a leaked pre production box, proberbly from a meeting where they...well talk about the box art.....


crappy performer, but actualy like the song.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCVWwi5MQk


A few people around here kinda fits the text :grin:

LTbear

TeeJay82
01-18-2011, 09:38 AM
3 months from now:

"I just bought Pacific Fighters, but it won't install into Cliffs of Dover.
Nor 1946 either. I tried buying the Complete Edition just to save trouble, but I can't even find CoD in it! Help please.

BTW, what is a Storm of Vik?"

yep, god bless those who cant think and read for themselves

TeeJay82
01-18-2011, 09:54 AM
And flying pencil... you need to go outside more often and think about something else than this new game`s title... im amazed by how much effort you go through to state your objection to it...

face it... its COD.

!THE END!

this post is not meant as an offence to you, but just like you, i state my oppinion about things i disapprove with

David603
01-18-2011, 02:09 PM
+1

If Oleg wants to name the sim Storm of War but can't, then the odds of us being able to get the name changed are pretty slim.

KaHzModAn
01-18-2011, 02:50 PM
Yes, the IL-2 title is a bad name...
First when I saw it last week, I thougth
"great so it's just a boosted IL-2++ ? I thought it was a brand new engine...
It's true we have seen some screens with interface similar to IL2, and the clouds come from IL2 too... so what's really new there ? just some graphics and a lot less content ?"

Ok, I read this forum every week so I know the engine is really new, I know the clouds and dynamic weather may not be in initial release...
But how much people read this forum regularly ? less than 2 or 3 thousand i'm pretty sure of that... since we reach around 150 viewers on friday updates, I think i'm seeing large here

So how are the others gonna react ?

Not mentionning the problem with Call of Duty...

putting a "from the makers of the never dying IL-2 Sturmovik series" is good enough, confusing people is not a good idea, a confused customer is not going to buy anything...

I don't care of the name (but I liked SoW), but it just should not be IL2 (that game already exists, and it's 10 years old), or the same acronym of a world wide known game serie (8 years old)

Why change the name now ? when all specialized press knows this game under Storm of War ?
Could it be because of this ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Storm-War-History-Second-World/dp/0713999705 (or anything similar...)

SlipBall
01-18-2011, 02:52 PM
In a discussion here about a year ago. Oleg indicated that the title would possibly be changed. Maybe CoD was his idea, and not one that came from ubi.:grin:

kimosabi
01-18-2011, 05:17 PM
How long does it have to take before people settle down with/realize that it's part namechange, part marketing. Imagine gamers searching Google for CoD. IMO it's a brilliant idea to catch the casual flight simmers that may not even have heard of this game yet.

zipper
01-18-2011, 07:08 PM
The name is fine. If someone is interested in a serious combat flight sim and checks the market place I have no doubt he'll find his way to Cliffs. I would also be surprised if some (tho probably minor) level of marketing research wasn't conducted in deciding on the name.

:grin:

bf-110
01-18-2011, 07:20 PM
CoD = Call of Duty?

Daniƫl
01-18-2011, 07:23 PM
CoD = Call of Duty?

Cliffs of Dover. Confusing isn't it?:???:

Bricks
01-18-2011, 07:25 PM
From the marketing point of view, the name is a good choice.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Flying Pencil
01-18-2011, 08:03 PM
This has been covered in the other thread aint it guys?

Not in detail

I understand that it makes little sense outright, but "Il2 Sturmovik" is not only the name of a plane, its also a brand name that people have come to recognize. Unfortunately it was given to console and arcade games too, and it is perhaps time to let that name go. However I suspect that ic Maddox really need this to be a success and SELL, and having the recognized Il2 name behind it will do that better than any other name.

Thats why is would say "From makers of " or such.
It is better becuase it says its quality and it is new.

Flying Pencil
01-18-2011, 08:06 PM
How long does it have to take before people settle down with/realize that it's part namechange, part marketing. Imagine gamers searching Google for CoD. IMO it's a brilliant idea to catch the casual flight simmers that may not even have heard of this game yet.

I have to agree that it may be a great way to capture an audience by name confusion.

Still:
"Hey, did you get that awesome new game, COD??"
"Which one?"
"Huh, the first one?"
"What century are you from, it was so last century!"
"Whu?? Not that one, dufus, the flying one"
"oh"

winny
01-18-2011, 09:01 PM
If anyone confuses Call of Duty with Cliffs of Dover they, frankly, shouldn't even bother opening the box...

Blackdog_kt
01-18-2011, 09:06 PM
My concern would be that people might think its just another addon for tired old IL-2, when its actually a brand spanking new game.

My thoughts exactly. There are in fact lots of people who come here from time to time after a long absence from the hobby and guess what's the first thing they ask about...what kind of game version/expansion we're currently using.

It's not people who don't care about flight sims, but people who are simmers and had to take a long break due to real life and they're confused now, because of the myriad of add-ons, the mods and the similarly titled console release. Do we have to make it even more confusing? :-P

There was a perfectly fine solution and that was to add "from the makers of the critically acclaimed IL2 sturmovik series" below the new title, or "the makers of the critically acclaimed IL2 series present" above it.

Instead, it's like someone over at Ubi's marketing department thought "let's spend as less time as possible in this meeting so we don't miss the lunch break" and slapped the old series title on it :grin:

Peffi
01-18-2011, 09:13 PM
Ridiculous name. Oleg obviously had to give up his discussion with an incompetent moron at Ubisoft. When the communication is so bad between a developer and a publisher we can only cross our fingers that Oleg wishes to continue on to Korea. Probably he will just give up 1C and instead concentrate on his photography and next job.

winny
01-18-2011, 09:23 PM
Ridiculous name. Oleg obviously had to give up his discussion with an incompetent moron at Ubisoft. When the communication is so bad between a developer and a publisher we can only cross our fingers that Oleg wishes to continue on to Korea. Probably he will just give up 1C and instead concentrate on his photography and next job.

So it's not even out yet and already no Korea and Olegs leaving... jeez

This forum has got cancer. Caused, mainly, by a bunch of spoilt brats.

If putting words into Olegs mouth, wild speculation and negativity are your thing then look no further than the 1c IL-2 forum.

I've said it before, some on here act like a gang of moaning old ladies.

I've some advice.. If you don't like the DRM/Box/Graphics/Campaign/Publisher/Name/Spitfire Manual/ then don't buy the game. Simple.

It'll be a good way of cleaning out the games gene pool too.

Peffi
01-18-2011, 09:32 PM
So it's not even out yet and already no Korea and Olegs leaving... jeez

It'll be a good way of cleaning out the games gene pool too.

Shut up :!:

winny
01-18-2011, 10:07 PM
Shut up :!:

Eh?

You can have your say and I can't have mine? Just rude.

Robotic Pope
01-19-2011, 04:24 AM
Exactly. The people who see the problem of the title are not unhappy because they just think it sounds bad. These are the people who are thinking not just for themselves but for others and the future. The people who don't see a problem are the ones that think "Its not a problem for me, I know its a new game and I'm buying whatever, If you don't like it don't buy it" this is a selfish way of thinking.

The fact is the the majority of people who may be inclined to buy this game will not know anything like as much as most people on this forum. Someone may see IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of dover on a shop shelf and say to themselves "wow is that old game still going? are they still making updates?, anyway I think I'd rather get something a bit newer"

Storm of war: Cliffs of dover, is too clunky and as someone else mentioned there are too many ...... of ...... titled games. It would also need a sticker saying from the makers of Il-2, which isn't ideal.

I suggested Sturmovik 2: Cliffs of dover,would have been better because it is clearly shows it is a new game and of the IL-2 series. Just by looking at the name the shop buyer would now think "wow a sequel to Il-2 Sturmovik, I used to love that old game. I'm going to have to try this new one" It works both ways and it is a pretty cool word afterall.

The fact the it Cliffs of dover just happens to have the same abbreviation as another game is not a problem at all. I really don't think anyone here will be going around calling the game cod. To me it is a childish thing to use an abbreviation of a very short sentence and not some thing the type of people who will be interested in this would do. This is neither confusing nor a marketing problem.

Blackdog_kt
01-19-2011, 08:11 AM
Guys, let's not point fingers and argue about what name is best from an aesthetic (and thus, purely subjective) point of view.

I don't care what the name is as long as:
1) It makes it clear that it's a game about flying airplanes in WWII, possibly making a mention of the sub-setting/theater of operations and
2) There's a small piece of text that makes it even clearer that it's made by the guys who made IL2 BUT it's completely new from the ground up and definitely not part of the original 10 year old series.

My humble opinion is that if we want something done about it, it will need to be done just as a way to ensure better market penetration, as in "dear 1c team, we your fans fear you might lose some sales because of this" and not in a manner of "omg,lolz, this is a stupid title, plx change". I'm exaggerating here and ending up being a wannabe forum comedian with a bad taste in jokes, but you get my drift :-P

If there's a case to be presented to the devs and most importantly the publishers, it will have to be done this way. "Sirs, this might cost you money" would be enough to grab their attention.

Why do we care? Because we want a game that will sell well enough so that we can see expansions in the future.

Let's not complicate things any further than they have to be. If the community here is concerned about the title and wants to start a vote/poll or whatever let's start from the basic stuff instead of individually giving our own example. I'm sure that if it can be changed in the 2 months until release and we make the publisher realize what kind of title would be fitting for the game, they would have enough people getting paid to come up with a better name.

The issue is not if or how much i like the name, but the two numbered points i made above and this:

3 months from now:

"I just bought Pacific Fighters, but it won't install into Cliffs of Dover.
Nor 1946 either. I tried buying the Complete Edition just to save trouble, but I can't even find CoD in it! Help please.

BTW, what is a Storm of Vik?"

This has all the potential to give someone who's new to the series a bit of a headache for the first couple of days, while it is in the sims and our own best interest that the first impression be as positive as possible.

We want it to install and play fine right out of the box with no or minimal hassle involved so that everyone can spend their time going "oooh" and "aaaah" and "did you see that?! amazing!" for the first few hours/days, without the slightest bit of sour taste involved in the process.

And guess what, Oleg Maddox and his team want and need the same thing. Heck, even Ubi wants it.
Just because they make a killing with other titles doesn't mean they want even one of their published games to do poorly, no matter how much of a niche genre it is in. ;)

Defender
01-19-2011, 01:33 PM
So it's not even out yet and already no Korea and Olegs leaving... jeez

This forum has got cancer. Caused, mainly, by a bunch of spoilt brats.

If putting words into Olegs mouth, wild speculation and negativity are your thing then look no further than the 1c IL-2 forum.

I've said it before, some on here act like a gang of moaning old ladies.

I've some advice.. If you don't like the DRM/Box/Graphics/Campaign/Publisher/Name/Spitfire Manual/ then don't buy the game. Simple.

It'll be a good way of cleaning out the games gene pool too.

+1

ChrisDNT
01-19-2011, 02:55 PM
"My concern would be that people might think its just another addon for tired old IL-2, when its actually a brand spanking new game."

About this aspect, the "official" trailer is rather confusing.

winny
01-19-2011, 03:46 PM
"My concern would be that people might think its just another addon for tired old IL-2, when its actually a brand spanking new game."

About this aspect, the "official" trailer is rather confusing.

Nobody's gonna buy this thinking it's an add on.. Flight Sim gamers read the box.
If you buy a game without reading the box you deserve everything you get.

If it's confusing people it says more about the people it's confusing, than it does the trailer.

Davedog74
01-19-2011, 04:57 PM
wish i had a p.c to play this on,looks like its going to be amazing
b.o.b is a passion of mine,the cliffs of dover represents the battle well
good luck with it chaps

whatnot
01-19-2011, 05:08 PM
So it's not even out yet and already no Korea and Olegs leaving... jeez

This forum has got cancer. Caused, mainly, by a bunch of spoilt brats.

If putting words into Olegs mouth, wild speculation and negativity are your thing then look no further than the 1c IL-2 forum.

I've said it before, some on here act like a gang of moaning old ladies.

I've some advice.. If you don't like the DRM/Box/Graphics/Campaign/Publisher/Name/Spitfire Manual/ then don't buy the game. Simple.

It'll be a good way of cleaning out the games gene pool too.

+++

It's amazing where this moaning has gone to now that there is no screenshot to whine about.

"Yes, it's all about making the game better by providing suggestions blah blah.." Yeah right.

whatnot
01-19-2011, 05:16 PM
Exactly. The people who see the problem of the title are not unhappy because they just think it sounds bad. These are the people who are thinking not just for themselves but for others and the future. The people who don't see a problem are the ones that think "Its not a problem for me, I know its a new game and I'm buying whatever, If you don't like it don't buy it" this is a selfish way of thinking.

Forum members providing feedback of this nature about the marketing related details such as the name of the title due to our concern of the lower revenue flow which will endanger the future of the franchise. What next? Is the price too low or high to maximize the profits?

What outcome do you expect out of a thread like this? The name will be changed back before the release now that it's already out and pre-ordered by thousands?

Oh dear..

Robotic Pope
01-19-2011, 06:44 PM
Forum members providing feedback of this nature about the marketing related details such as the name of the title due to our concern of the lower revenue flow which will endanger the future of the franchise. What next? Is the price too low or high to maximize the profits?

What outcome do you expect out of a thread like this? The name will be changed back before the release now that it's already out and pre-ordered by thousands?

Oh dear..

I expect nothing. I only say it is not ideal and give my thoughts on what I would have done as I have some experience in that area. This is a forum, this is what you do in a forum, express your thoughts on the subject.

Flying Pencil
01-19-2011, 07:04 PM
:lol:

Its difficult one. You want to use the popularity and recognition of the IL2 Sturmovik series but the problem is the name was never chosen to be a "brand" and is rather limiting and confusing as one. You can't just put a 2 after the name like most movies and games do and you have a title object that isn't relevant to the subject.

I think keeping the same title IL2 sturmovik will be a very confusing to newcomers, an example: I know nothing about Harry Potter, From just the names I couldn't tell you which was the first film, which was the latest film or the order of any film in between.

What I would do is compromise. Take the IL-2 designation out of the title. That just leaves you with a recognisable name that is now a russian word having a meaning (Stormer) rather than a name of a curently irrelevant plane. You could then give it a sequential number, IL-2 being Sturmovik 1.
You could then do
Sturmovik 2: Cliffs of Dover.
Sturmovik 2: Eastern front.
Sturmovik 2: Sahara
Sturmovik 2: 1950
This differentiates game 1 expansions from game 2 expansions. Without this things will get very confusing even for IL-2 fans in future as the game expands.

Anyone think we should do a vote on this?

I REALLY like this idea!!

110% behind this for the name!

Flying Pencil
01-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Exactly. The people who see the problem of the title are not unhappy because they just think it sounds bad. These are the people who are thinking not just for themselves but for others and the future. The people who don't see a problem are the ones that think "Its not a problem for me, I know its a new game and I'm buying whatever, If you don't like it don't buy it" this is a selfish way of thinking.


My sentiments exactly.

Those who already play IL-2 know CoD is coming, and don't care what its called, and the market is cemented.

The publishers *think* they will gain more customers by making it sound like it is part of IL-2, but it might actually turn away customers because they think it is yet another "installment" to a 10 year old game that costs a lot.

It is human nature to always get the latest, and it is marketing 101 that sometimes you have to start a fresh brand name to get the maximum return.