Friday 2010-11-19 Dev. update and Discussion

[Oleg Maddox]

Today we will show some parts of controls menus (looking not final, but close to final) - for aircraft.
Of course who will set simple settings of control don't need to use all these things...
But as its promised in the past - the sim is for the whole range of simmers from arcade to harcore.

Attention: it is really just two screens of setings for Aircraft category: Keys and Axis
There is more really :) But will be shown later.

[Oleg Maddox]

next part with controls.

[Oleg Maddox]

a bit more and some new screens

[Oleg Maddox]

and more shots.

[Fergal69]

Settings for 8 throttles & such like - looks like there could be some 4 engine planes that are flyable.

[NSU]

This Key settings look like a realy good simulation

[DD_crash]

Very interesting Oleg, will we have to set the altimeter to airfield height before take off?

[fireflyerz]

Thanks Oleg,
Im wondering, where it sais "signal ground crew to remove brake shoes" , will we be able to see them doing this as an animation in the game ?

[pupo162]

-deleted previus--

thanks oleg, love this update, since it shows every feature of the game when it coems to waht mathers: controllign your plane

cheers

[SlipBall]

Very cool option's , thanks:grin:

[Avimimus]

Amazed. I can imagine flying as the aircraft's engineer in multiplayer (it would be great to have someone in a gunner position watching the engines).

The only thing which is conspicuously absent from the list are weapon controls...

[Daniël]

Looking good. Damn good:cool:
Impressive condensation trails.

[ECV56_Guevara]

In the upper part of the control setting says "Category: Aircraft" . I am right if I guess we could choose vehicles or guns?????

[Ace Cheese]

oooooooooo watch out, it's a big one. :grin:

[Oleg Maddox]

Amazed. I can imagine flying as the aircraft's engineer in multiplayer (it would be great to have someone in a gunner position watching the engines).

The only thing which is conspicuously absent from the list are weapon controls...

I said we show some of controls.
There is way more settings :) General, Turret, etc....
I think for today is enough to discuss just these two screens (it is really just 2 screens Keys and Axis for aircraft)

[PeterPanPan]

Thanks Oleg,

Wow, there are so many options here that beg so many questions! Will there be carb icing if carb heat isn't used correctly? Will the Directional Gyro drift and need regular resetting? And, as already asked, will atmospheric pressure be modelled so that altimeters need to be set correctly?

Also, beautiful contrails. How long will they remain visible? Hopefully for quite a while after the fight.

And as for the Defiants - woweeee!!

Lastly, what on earth is the white blob and brown trail in the last image of Set 4?

PPanPan

[Oleg Maddox]

In the upper part of the control setting says "Category: Aircraft" . I am right if I guess we could choose vehicles or guns?????

Yes we have different categories :) Some of them will be closed for the release and we will open them later.

[kedrednael]

Verry nice update,
the controls say alot of what you can do in the sim of course :)
Are there updated fuel tank leak effects in the 3th ingame screenshot?

[NSU]

Primary and secondary radio navigation frequency,
is this like Knickebein and Wotan (X Verfahren “Funkstrahl”)
you simulate radio beacon (Funkfeuer) too?

[Birdflu]

Very nice all this update!
WE LOOK Forward to play the game.
Tnks for the time

[Zorin]

Very convincing update.

I especially like the new water splash/distortion after the impact in that He111 shot.

One thing I did notice though is a grammar mistake.

"I'm going for the leader from the first element."

I do believe that it should actually be: "I'm going for the leader of the first element."

[the Dutchman]

Lastly, what on earth is the white blob and brown trail in the last image of Set 4?
A plane ditching obviously.........

Finally a sim with a Bolton Paul Defiant,is it a flyable?

[kedrednael]

Thanks Oleg,


And as for the Defiants - woweeee!!

Lastly, what on earth is the white blob and brown trail in the last image of Set 4?

PPanPan

The white blob is accually verry realistic, when a plane or a bomb explodes in the water there will be a large white pressure circle, that desolves slowly. but the brown trail looks verry WIP like.

[ECV56_Guevara]

I am in love whit this sim. Maybe the spring, maybe this update....

BTW....there s a commadn for "rsignal ground crew remove brake shoes" I guess they will be animated!!!!

and...."detach aircraft for mothership" ??? CAM ships??? Oh my god! I love you SOW!!!!

[PeterPanPan]

The white blob is accually verry realistic, when a plane or a bomb explodes in the water there will be a large white pressure circle, that desolves slowly. but the brown trail looks verry WIP like.

It's funny though. Sometimes you just don't see what's there. I thought it was some kind of white ufo above the sea!

[Daniël]

In the last picture of the 3rd part: Is the He 111 gunner wounded or dead?

[Uufflakke]

I think the spelling of the word 'Carburetor' should be 'Carburettor'.
Carburetor = American spelling
Carburettor = UK spelling
And as this sim is about the Battle of Britain... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor

EDIT: another spelling thingie
'Toggle Horizontal Stablizier' should be 'Toggle Horizontal Stabilizer' or (again English spelling) 'Stabiliser'
and
'Assigment List' should be 'Assignment List'
'Propellor Pitch' should be 'Propeller Pitch'

[PeterPanPan]

Finally a sim with a Bolton Paul Defiant,is it a flyable?

AFAIK, only AI.

[csThor]

Gawd! I think I'll need to print the keyboard layout on DIN A3 and put it on the wall next to my PC. I'm afraid I'll never learn even half of those keystrokes. ;)

[csThor]

PS: Oleg, pls check your mail. :)

[McHilt]

Oh yeah, friday again...
I am very pleased with the information disclosed in this update! :mrgreen:
Great... and thanks guys.

[Avala]

I like it. Its simple but good looking.

One suggestion if I may, now there is bright letters on dark background, can we have also as choice the opposite variant, with dark letters on the brighter background?

For some people it is more visible that way.

[Oleg Maddox]

In the last picture of the 3rd part: Is the He 111 gunner wounded or dead?

dead

[Oleg Maddox]

I think the spelling of the word 'Carburetor' should be 'Carburettor'.
Carburetor = American spelling
Carburettor = UK spelling
And as this sim is about the Battle of Britain... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor

EDIT: another spelling thingie
'Toggle Horizontal Stablizier' should be 'Toggle Horizontal Stabilizer' or (again English spelling) 'Stabiliser'
and
'Assigment List' should be 'Assignment List'

some will be corrcted. Its also why it is posted.

[luthier]

I think the spelling of the word 'Carburetor' should be 'Carburettor'.
Carburetor = American spelling
Carburettor = UK spelling
And as this sim is about the Battle of Britain... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor

EDIT: another spelling thingie
'Toggle Horizontal Stablizier' should be 'Toggle Horizontal Stabilizer' or (again English spelling) 'Stabiliser'

I'm sorry but I refuse to release a game with planes that have a "carburettor" and an "airscrew" and an "empennage".

The project is now canceled.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Boulton Paul Defiant! Marvelous.

I'm most excited about the new layers of aircraft and engine controls!!!!!!!!

Altimeter set, etc.....

I was so curious over the years, as to what additional detail in aircraft control, intrumentation, pilot interaction with the cockpit and FM - that you've answered with these shots, Oleg!!!!

As 4.0 patch in Il2 was a dream come true to me - what you've done in SOW is just astounding.

Coupled with clickable controls in the cockpit - you have certainly taken the State-of-the-Art to previously unimaginable levels!

This is going to be the "High-Mark" for all flight simulators - not just combat flight simulators - but ALL flight simulators.

THANK YOU!

Gunny

[Avimimus]

I think the spelling of the word 'Carburetor' should be 'Carburettor'.
Carburetor = American spelling
Carburettor = UK spelling
And as this sim is about the Battle of Britain... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor

EDIT: another spelling thingie
'Toggle Horizontal Stablizier' should be 'Toggle Horizontal Stabilizer' or (again English spelling) 'Stabiliser'
and
'Assigment List' should be 'Assignment List'
'Propellor Pitch' should be 'Propeller Pitch'

+1 for U.K. spellings! (all previous sims that I can remember used U.S.)

[Avimimus]

I'm sorry but I refuse to release a game with planes that have a "carburettor" and an "airscrew" and an "empennage".

The project is now canceled.

Bloody yank ;)

[Oleg Maddox]

PS: Oleg, pls check your mail. :)

Answered

[Splitter]

Full real is going to take on a whole new meaning :). VERY informative update. This is the closest thing I have seen to a flight simulator which is also a combat simulator! Impressive. With all realistic settings, there is going to be a big learning curve. I only hope that AI pilots are not "perfect" when it comes to managing all of these systems and that some time delays are built in to simulate thie flipping of switches and such.

Thank you!

Splitter

PS....I can already see all of the "what happened" posts on here after release. "Why did my engine sputter and stop when I cut power back?" lol. I am so looking forward to this sim.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Wow, very interesting update. The layers of controls for so many details...that is amazing! I agree with Thor: impossible to remind you of that if not printing it out on A3!

Question: do those commands have their counterpart in clickable buttons in the cockpit? Or differently asked: How can I see if a command has a "twin " switchable button in the cockpit or not ?

[Uufflakke]

I'm sorry but I refuse to release a game with planes that have a "carburettor" and an "airscrew" and an "empennage".

The project is now canceled.

I'm just trying to help...
That's all.

[NSU]

Primary and secondary radio navigation frequency, is this like Knickebein and Wotan (X Verfahren “Funkstrahl”) you simulate radio beacon (Funkfeuer) too?


can you tell something about smoke and fire.
Can we see the big smoke, (burning city) in a long distance?
I read bomber crew to see smoke from 30km distance, the point of the destination, this show the way to the target

Still wait for a map editor BoB map screenshot ;)

[Oleg Maddox]

Boulton Paul Defiant! Marvelous.

I'm most excited about the new layers of aircraft and engine controls!!!!!!!!

Altimeter set, etc.....

I was so curious over the years, as to what additional detail in aircraft control, intrumentation, pilot interaction with the cockpit and FM - that you've answered with these shots, Oleg!!!!

As 4.0 patch in Il2 was a dream come true to me - what you've done in SOW is just astounding.

Coupled with clickable controls in the cockpit - you have certainly taken the State-of-the-Art to previously unimaginable levels!

This is going to be the "High-Mark" for all flight simulators - not just combat flight simulators - but ALL flight simulators.

THANK YOU!

Gunny

It is more easy to understand what our guys did (and especially Roman) from such shots than to answer million questions...

[csThor]

Mail answer answered as well. :mrgreen:

[Wutz]

Nice up date! Out of curiousity, will there also be the possibilty to set the controls for the bombers? As I saw no level stabelizer and no mentioning of bombsights in those screen shots? As some do get more kicks out of flying bombers than fighters! ;)

[T}{OR]

So nice to see options for multiple throttles.

Q1: Will SoW support more controllers at once and if so how many?

Q2: Will all He-111's have the added 'top' gun in the nose?

Thanks for this (yet another) great update. :cool:

[luthier]

I'm just trying to help...
That's all.

Sorry, your feedback is very much appreciated of course!

We hope to have both US and UK spellings of all texts, if we catch them all.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Very nice update. I think the buttons of the Thrustmaster Warthog will come to good use :D Really a lot of small details seen there in the pics. Thanks and have a good weekend :)

[Quickcord]

S!

Very nice update. I think the buttons of the Thrustmaster Warthog will come to good use :D Really a lot of small details seen there in the pics. Thanks and have a good weekend :)

I don't know about that, might have to buy 3 extra throttle assemblies for the bombers. ;)


Quickcord

[AdMan]

I need a bigger keyboard

[BadAim]

My day is made... The contrails are perfect, the controls look scary (as I would expect), and I'm still looking forward to SOW (no matter what it's called). I'd love to see the AI commands in a future update.

[Flanker35M]

S!

True, but my rides will be Bf109E and Bf110C mainly :D But there are some very nice throttle quadrants out there though you can add. And seems we got all the needed controls in the game too so..BRING IT ON! I drool..my 580GTX is waiting for SoW :D

[AWL_Spinner]

Wonderful update!

You've no idea how happy seeing a key map for "bomb bay doors" makes me. It's the simple things :)

Other things:

- Love the new condensation trails!

- A bit perplexed by the muzzle flash from the .303s in broad daylight. I know this has been done to death before regarding IL2, but shouldn't it be practically invisible unless the light is very low?

Cheers!

[Avimimus]

Sorry, your feedback is very much appreciated of course!

We hope to have both US and UK spellings of all texts, if we catch them all.

Nice to hear. It would be appreciated if the spellings are offered in all versions (as many Commonwealth countries end up with the U.S. production run).

[SlipBall]

After the debate on full start up, I see now what you meant about all other controls available during flight...the complexity is very impressive Oleg:grin:

[ChrisDNT]

AN IMPORTANT REQUEST (sorry but the caps are necessary here) ;)

I think it would be EXTREMELY helpful to be able to settle different joystick settings for each aircraft in the game (after all, it's just some lines in the config files)

[JanezsJohn]

Nice up date! Out of curiousity, will there also be the possibilty to set the controls for the bombers? As I saw no level stabelizer and no mentioning of bombsights in those screen shots? As some do get more kicks out of flying bombers than fighters! ;)

First read hole discussion. This is just part of the controls.

[trO]

I just hope theres going to be a thick manual to cover all this... Great job Oleg I'm really looking forward to the release of this sim....

[Splitter]

No, no, no, Lutheir, you had it right the first time :).

I actually don't think that an "American" translation is needed for the BoB release. It might be required for a future update to the sim, but even as an American I am going to be "British" when playing BoB....I'll need to develop a taste for fish and chips and boiled meat though... :). It really is not difficult to read the British version.

I think the clickable cockpits should allay the fears of those who think they might run out of keyboard buttons. Some of the options shown in this update (radio frequencies and such) will only come up in non-combat situations where a pilot can take some time in setting them. The combat stuff needing instant access can be left on the keyboard.

Dang this is looking good, my wife is going to be angry...

Splitter

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

brrr, I shudder when I think about 1944 in that engine. Now I may be jumping the gun a bit but a thousand bomber raid with those contrails......brrrrr

[nearmiss]

Gawd! I think I'll need to print the keyboard layout on DIN A3 and put it on the wall next to my PC. I'm afraid I'll never learn even half of those keystrokes. ;)

Here is the answer to that...

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/mfp.html

Mine works great and the best part is... I can buy more buttons.

I use the 25 buttons it comes with for IL2, but I can add 25 more

http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.html

There are other programmable keyboards as well,i.e, X-Keys

http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys.php

I used a 20 key PS2 unit years ago, It was excellent unit.

There maybe better products I'm not aware.

[zodiac]

Oh thank god the defiant is in there! I feared he wouldn't make it in the release! But obviously he is alive and kicking!

One question about that moveable part on his back. Isn't that meant to be totally retracted in order to turn the turret? That is how I remember it from the days I made a scale model of a defiant... From the pictures I've seen it was always retracted if the turret was moving.

Is there someone who could enlighten me with some info about the use of that fin? I don't know what the use of it was. I suppose it had something to do with aerodynamics or some extra space for the gunners legs during non combat flights.

But great update oleg&team!

[Wutz]

First read hole discussion. This is just part of the controls.
Duh it should be still allowed to ask......really! :rolleyes:

[baronWastelan]

Sure would be nice to be able to have the new sim automatically read my old config files from Il-2 and use those settings so I don't have to spend a whole day setting up my keys mappings and controls ;)

[BigPickle]

Thanks for the bumper update Mr Oleg, I really get the feel this is starting to move along faster now.
I saw the sensitivities bars on the joystick screen shot, I'm sure SOW will support full Force Feedback but, of course for all the current owners of MS FF2 - will Microsoft Force Feedback 2 be supported?

Thank you

[=XIII=Shea]

Great update,thanks oleg:grin:

[kendo65]

Page 7 and no-one has mentioned the smoking tracers?!?

Maybe too many other great things to comment on?

Excellent.

[Letum]

Thank you again!

[Sutts]

Fantastic update again...so much info just in those first screens alone.

I can't say how pleased I am to see fuel selectors in there...and radio frequencies too. Hope there's a battery switch too so we can prepare for emergency landing.;) Any chance of fuel booster pumps being modelled in future?

I can't believe the spiral trails on those tracers haven't been mentioned yet! Also look at the way those contrails merge so naturally, great stuff. The distorted and lifting skin on that damaged defiant wing is very nice too.

Great work guys. This title will set so many new standards. It looks so amazing.:grin:

[C_G]

I saw the sensitivities bars on the joystick screen shot, I'm sure SOW will support full Force Feedback but, of course for all the current owners of MS FF2 - will Microsoft Force Feedback 2 be supported?



I noticed that at least one of the computers set up at IgroMir had an MSFF2 set up.

Given the wide range of controllers that was at 1C booth, I'm guessing that they brought in all the sticks and controls that they've been using for testing at the office.
I think it's a pretty safe inference to make that since they have a MSFF2, they've tested with it and it will be supported.

All guess-work, but fairly safe assumptions and logic I think.
C_G

[JAMF]

It's amazing to see the amount of axes we will be able to map. Might need to rethink the cockpit layout. :grin:


The white blob is accually verry realistic, when a plane or a bomb explodes in the water there will be a large white pressure circle, that desolves slowly. but the brown trail looks verry WIP like.The oily smoke trail from the Defiant ending where it disappeared in the embrace of the sea is what I'd expect. Nice to see the froth of bubbles is in place. :)

I'm sorry but I refuse to release a game with planes that have a "carburettor" and an "airscrew" and an "empennage".

The project is now canceled.Casual Friday at the 1C office ended with a lot of vodka for you? ;)

[Abbeville-Boy]

this game will rock!

[Il2Pongo]

Looks great, will we be able to filter that list by number of engines so that the list gets way shorter for the usual case?
The life of IL2 has been so long, I have installed it so many times and adjusted key mappings so many times..
the ability to go through 8 of everything to fly the gigant is great, but having to go thought it every time is a bit of a drag.

Looks great though,
love to see the heart of this thing beating now!

[ATAG_Dutch]

some will be corrcted. Its also why it is posted.

Could I mention that 'signal ground crew to remove brake shoes' should be 'signal ground crew to remove chocks'? Or simply 'signal chocks away'?

Also that 'Oil Radiator' is usually referred to as 'Oil Cooler'

The inclusion of the poor old Defiant is excellent.

Many Thanks

[Gourmand]

lot of screenshot !!!
thx !!!!

[Dietger]

Ah nice to see that radio navigation options are planed :)

I think its possible, then to steer the Ju88 via radio Kurssteuerung?

[Insuber]

Nearly photorealistic in some shots.

It looks like the tracers have spiral smoke now. I suppose that the previous round "puffs", frankly horrible, where a placeholder, am I right?

[HB252]

Hi Oleg Luthier and teamwork guys.

Please just one thingin 4th part 4 shot::(

Why when a pilot or member crew bail out have this position of legs and arms?

Seems that it position is a professional or experts paratroopers with arms extended and legs bent.

I see in too many you tube videos that when a pilot bail out he falls like a rag doll ous of control falling and turning himself.

Oleg or luthier or somebody, can show me a picture tha show this position when a pilot bail out? I think that this position of bailing out was born in late 50s, no in ww2.


I hope that this position of bailing out was WIP. If no is WIP its sad see this positon.

Sorry for my bad english.

[easytarget3]

just amazing!hope there will be training for all the controls to master,or at least simple explanations.
thanks for great update.

[flyingblind]

The levels of lighting in the shots are impressive. The 109 slightly obscured by thin cloud but still sunlite, the shadows and the sun glare reflections. It's all looking quite brilliant and atmospheric. As a graphic designer I know how easy it is to become absorbed in a design and miss the stupid typos until it is too late and that's using my native language. It's always worth scheduling time to double check spelling or even posting a full list of commands here as others are always quick to pick up errors and provide any alternative English or American versions.

[jombala]

Hi,

I've have a question, suggestion ... will it be possible to have the aircraft reference while in flight (even better while pausing the game)?

To explain the reason I ask, I'm not a plane specialist but I do like the realistic settings so when in flight, I'm constantly alt-tabbing between a browser and the game to remember when I need to switch the turbo charger and so on ...

In IL-2 I always spend a lot of time searching the web for all the reference for the aircraft I want to fly and then it's time to go to bed without even being airbone :-( .

Also, I don't have (I know I should ...) a trackIR, when in cockpit view, I cannot glance easily on the 'ball' of the plane to keep it centered, will there be a way to have the main instrument visible at all time?

Sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker.

[fireflyerz]

Hi Oleg Luthier and teamwork guys.

Please just one thingin 4th part 4 shot::(

Why when a pilot or member crew bail out have this position of legs and arms?

Seems that it position is a professional or experts paratroopers with arms extended and legs bent.

I see in too many you tube videos that when a pilot bail out he falls like a rag doll ous of control falling and turning himself.

Oleg or luthier or somebody, can show me a picture tha show this position when a pilot bail out? I think that this position of bailing out was born in late 50s, no in ww2.


I hope that this position of bailing out was WIP. If no is WIP its sad see this positon.

Sorry for my bad english.

True, in blighty its called the stable spread and is a basic freefall position, its more than likley that what you say is true and its also missrepresented in Il2 as well , would be more realistic if they were tumbling away .

[Tanimbar]

[QUOTE=Dutch_851;199489]Could I mention that 'signal ground crew to remove brake shoes' should be 'signal ground crew to remove chocks'? Or simply 'signal chocks away'?

Also that 'Oil Radiator' is usually referred to as 'Oil Cooler'


Seconded: Dutch_851 is correct.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

Hi,

I've have a question, suggestion ... will it be possible to have the aircraft reference while in flight (even better while pausing the game)?.

This is a good idea for new pilots. To have a key where we swith to a screen with references of the aircraft we are flying. Especially interesting if we use the QMB and choose an aircraft randomly without knowing much about it.
It could also be made that by pressing a key, or key combination, it appears on the screen the important technical info required to fly the aircraft, like altitud required to change supercharger stage, if it haves de-icing system, aircraft or engine limitations, and so on.

Like it for newbies!

[Feuerfalke]

Nobody noticed there is a drop-down-menu for choosing a different category than "aircraft"? :D

Very nice.

I like the new GUI - looks very decent and modern, without all the graphical nonsense.


Oh, and +1 Vote for the US-language-version.

and -1 for "make it available in all languages" - I want to play BoB within the next 10 years and I don't care if it's in lower-mandarin-chinese.

[House M.D.]

Nobody noticed there is a drop-down-menu for choosing a different category than "aircraft"? :D

Very nice.

I like the new GUI - looks very decent and modern, without all the graphical nonsense.
...

Well, actually this has been noticed and answered here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=199409&postcount=17

I agree that the new GUI is excellent. Modern and efficient.
What I like most, is that it seems, like the whole game, to have been structured in a way to be able to add/delete various options and thus this product may have a life span even bigger than IL-2, which would be fantastic.

Thank you for the update Oleg.

[Old_Canuck]

Bloody yank ;)

This Canuck votes with the gentleman from California. We likes American spellings :P But it's a kind gesture to provide alternatives for those who like the extra "t" in carburetor etc.

[philip.ed]

Lovely update, Oleg. It's great to see the Defiant in the game. I know it's a minor part of the sim, but I did send you a detailed picture of a Defiant gunner (in colour) to show the GQ Parasuit which they wore. Will you model this in the game? It's only a cosmetic part, so really it's a bit inconseqiential, but I was just interested (because of my love for RAF BoB gear). :D

Also, the Defiant gunners had problems bailing-out. Will this be modelled, too? (sorry if it's been asked before, but I don't remember seeing it posted ;) )

Keep up the excellent work. The Menu looks really easy to operate, which I think is great. I quite like the contemporary look, too. It reminds me of Brothers in Arms.

[Jaguar]

Will there be a demo in game on the proper use of engine controls such as the impeller? I am not that versed in aeronautical enginerring. My typing and spelling could use some work as well
lol.

[choctaw111]

There are some great things in the controls menu.
Will we actually see the ground crew removing the chocks?

Edit...with all of these new features, the serious simmer will HAVE to make a simpit for all of this stuff :)

[Feuerfalke]

Well, actually this has been noticed and answered here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=199409&postcount=17

I agree that the new GUI is excellent. Modern and efficient.
What I like most, is that it seems, like the whole game, to have been structured in a way to be able to add/delete various options and thus this product may have a life span even bigger than IL-2, which would be fantastic.

Thank you for the update Oleg.

:)

Thanks

[28_Condor]

S!

Yes we have different categories :) Some of them will be closed for the release and we will open them later.

Hi Oleg

What are these categories (and what are the open for the release)? I'm very curious!

Thanks for the update!

[Blackdog_kt]

Updated "smoky" tracers, awesome contrails, all around graphical goodness but most of all...after so long, a glimpse of what's under the hood.
I really like the ability to define controls in 3 ways: on, off and toggle. This way it will be simpler for people to assign custom made 2-way switches, etc.

I'm very happy to see it has all of those controls modelled, as it is exactly what i felt was missing from prop-era combat sims. Even the cowl flaps and oil cooler controls are separate now. I also like how people finally understand the need for the clickable interface when presented with this vast array of different controls. I'm not going to fire guns or manipulate flight critical controls like radiators with the mouse, but i'm not going to assign keys to the altitude calibration knob either ;)

Also, the sensitivity and mapping options seem very well thought out and intuitive.

Question: Will it be possible to have "smooth", gradual control when using the keyboard? For example, i fly with an old MS sidewinder precision 2 and it has only one throttle. If i press the "increase pitch" key, will it change in steps like it was in IL2, or will it be gradual (the longer i press it the longer it keeps moving the pitch lever)? If yes, then will we be able to set an "acceleration" factor, so that if i keep the key pressed it queues commands faster?

Great job on coding all these systems, give your guy Roman my best :grin:




PS....I can already see all of the "what happened" posts on here after release. "Why did my engine sputter and stop when I cut power back?" lol. I am so looking forward to this sim.

That's going to be the best thing about it all. I've been a user of combat flight sims for 18 years. Every few years i get a few moments of surprise when running a new title for the first time. Last time it happened was when i tried out the IL2 demo. I think it's time to be surprised again ;)

[Bolelas]

Can anyone tell me if the game will have the possibillity of adding on/of switches instead of having only the momentary switches like the ones on the keyboard? Because i want to add a switch to control gear, UP and DOWN position, instead of only: press key... press same key again...

I loved today update, so many axis, so many functions, thank you Mr Oleg and team!

[Bloblast]

Oleg,

Can you tell at the moment how many planes we can expect in a bombing mission?

[Foo'bar]

Page 7 and no-one has mentioned the smoking tracers?!?

Maybe too many other great things to comment on?

Excellent.

Only bad things will be commented. Good things are expected. ;)

[philip.ed]

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment :D Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.

[furbs]

very good update! lots of very nice stuff for sure :)

would love to see some weathering on the 109s though...they look so clean and pretty :)

[constant]

dead

Awesome.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

I like the new GUI - looks very decent and modern, without all the graphical nonsense.

It's all a matter of taste, and mostly irrellevant, but i disagree with you. Just for getting it out of my chest i have to say that i don't like the GUI, because it looks too modern for a ww2 sim.
I would keep the way text is displayed, but i would prefer somethin that looks like a old desktop with a book open, like a manual, where you see the rows with the commandss, and on the right writen on hand made letter, with diferent color, the key assigned to that command. Or something like that.
Maybe i'm too old school, but i think that a ww2 sim GUI should look more like something old and not modern.

Just an opinion, after all the great things that has been showed of aircraft, terrain, skins and so on, what ever they choose and do with the GUI, its fine by me. :)

[Fuse]

Thanks Oleg for this update! I would only like to add my humble request since I haven't found it addressed anywhere on the forums...

I really hope that upon bailing out, that the view would change to first person, and controls might be provided to simulate the bailout procedure as well as providing the pilot the choice when to pop the chute, the direction, and landing animations etc. It would keep the heart thumping through all the phases of the escape from the aircraft ~ and if it's not too much trouble, I would also request a 45 Caliber Handgun to give me a chance to thwart Chute Shooters (=;

[addman]

Great update Oleg! Please tell me that there will be some kind of engine management training in the game for those of us who are not aeronautical engineers :-)

[Blackdog_kt]

Can anyone tell me if the game will have the possibillity of adding on/of switches instead of having only the momentary switches like the ones on the keyboard? Because i want to add a switch to control gear, UP and DOWN position, instead of only: press key... press same key again...

I loved today update, so many axis, so many functions, thank you Mr Oleg and team!

You mean like making your own gear lever? You are right, that's a good question and i totally missed this when i was asking about such things just one post above yours. Supposing a two-way switch gives a continuous signal, then it would need different interpretation or handling by the game engine.

An instantaneous switch would just send the command "gear up", but having a two-way switch that stays in place would trasmit "gear up...gear up...gear up..." all the time :-P
Although, i think that you can get around this limitation by using certain kinds of circuit design for your custom controller. I'm not sure but i vaguely remember seeing some diagramms on leo bodnar's website about making his controllers work that way.

Still, very good observation there.



Only bad things will be commented. Good things are expected. ;)

This is signature worthy. :-P

[Tte. Costa]

It's all a matter of taste, and mostly irrellevant, but i disagree with you. Just for getting it out of my chest i have to say that i don't like the GUI, because it looks too modern for a ww2 sim.
I would keep the way text is displayed, but i would prefer somethin that looks like a old desktop with a book open, like a manual, where you see the rows with the commandss, and on the right writen on hand made letter, with diferent color, the key assigned to that command. Or something like that.
Maybe i'm too old school, but i think that a ww2 sim GUI should look more like something old and not modern.

Just an opinion, after all the great things that has been showed of aircraft, terrain, skins and so on, what ever they choose and do with the GUI, its fine by me. :)

I think exactly the same.
The atmosphere of WWII is a must, and it has to start from the GUI till the last shoot.
But as you commented "It´s a matter of taste" and maybe is done this way to cath attention as much people as posible.

[rakinroll]

Thanks Oleg.

[Aquarius]

splended!...except of informations about keys I DO like the 2nd shot in 4th part...tracers everywhere and slightly cut left wing of defiant...real drama...

im very curious about how much points of "cutting" is actually there...

Thank you Oleg nad rest of the team!

[Bolelas]

thank you mr Blackdog. And it is very very simple to create such switch, pic a button on your joystick, solder the 2 wires to a ON-OFF switch and there you go.I have a very simple radio control simulator that has that funtion. I asked this question here many times before, but maybe i am on the ignore list, he he! The only way to go around the problem is with a small program that maps the keys, but that is not so good as if funtion was in game. Hope they include it. If they dont, no problem, i am very happy with theyr job!

[choctaw111]

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment :D Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.


The spiral effect of the smoke was not a camera shake issue. The spiral like vortices were actually present.
I had a 20mm MG-FF cannon shell pulled from a shot up B17. The hole for the tracer was off center. This is another contributing factor to the spirals.
The only thing about the wiggling tracers that I have an argument about is quite simple.
When viewing a tracer that is fired, it will appear as a streak traveling in a straight line, no wiggles, BUT if you are firing a handheld or semi fixed machine gun, the vibrations and recoil on your face will cause the tracer to appear a little distorted, very much like the camera shake.

[C_G]

It's all a matter of taste, and mostly irrellevant, but i disagree with you. Just for getting it out of my chest i have to say that i don't like the GUI, because it looks too modern for a ww2 sim.
I would keep the way text is displayed, but i would prefer somethin that looks like a old desktop with a book open, like a manual, where you see the rows with the commandss, and on the right writen on hand made letter, with diferent color, the key assigned to that command. Or something like that.
Maybe i'm too old school, but i think that a ww2 sim GUI should look more like something old and not modern.

Just an opinion, after all the great things that has been showed of aircraft, terrain, skins and so on, what ever they choose and do with the GUI, its fine by me. :)

I agree with Lancelot.
While the GUI is "fine" (clean, etc... etc...), it's very boring.

Here's an idea to make it much more graphical.

Have a cut-away of a He-111 (it has to be some aircraft that uses almost all of the available controls- though ideally you could profile any aircraft you wished),
clicking on the landing gear selects the gear assignment, then push the button that you wish to assign - graphic: the landing gear goes up to confirm selection.

for the engine controls, graphical zoom in on the throttle quadrant and associated controls, click on the labeled item, assign button

For the bombardier controls the same. Graphical zoom in on the equipment in the cockpit, direct assigning of controls via mouse + game device button.

This would be so much more interesting and intuitive than the old IL2 "endless-scrolling until you get to the right control" exercise.

I know it's probably too late to suggest this, unfortunately.

C_G

[carl]

i like the menus but the pictures, i like them all but shot_20101117 is my favourites, when i get this sim i may just spend first couple of weeks making screenies:grin:

[SlipBall]

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment :D Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.


I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.:grin:

[Necrobaron]

Very nice! I might sound like a broken record, but once again, this is one of the best updates to date. A good bit of information can be gleaned from those lovely screenies...

[Sutts]

The spiral effect of the smoke was not a camera shake issue. The spiral like vortices were actually present.
I had a 20mm MG-FF cannon shell pulled from a shot up B17. The hole for the tracer was off center. This is another contributing factor to the spirals.
The only thing about the wiggling tracers that I have an argument about is quite simple.
When viewing a tracer that is fired, it will appear as a streak traveling in a straight line, no wiggles, BUT if you are firing a handheld or semi fixed machine gun, the vibrations and recoil on your face will cause the tracer to appear a little distorted, very much like the camera shake.

Agreed, there's no way that the spiral effect we see in film could be caused by camera shake...if it was then the spiral smoke effect produced earlier in the flight of the shell would not be there in the subsequent frames..but it is.

I don't believe all tracers produced this spiral but some of the larger calibre ones definitely did. How it was produced I have no idea. We've seen balistic studies on this forum recently showing that bullets/shells do gyrate around an axis in flight but I can't believe this wobble was very large. Perhaps it becomes larger as the flight time increases and energy is lost?

[philip.ed]

I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.:grin:

Could such a noticeable spiral be reached?
Maybe....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqJwHdMDK0&playnext=1&list=PL7A2902274DE3248F&index=7

I can't say whether this is the camera shake causing the effect, but then maybe this is modelled in SoW? In the same way that the different prop-visuals are modelled dependent on the speed the player sets the game to....?
Quite interesting, I can't wait to see this in-game.

[Sutts]

I agree with Lancelot.
While the GUI is "fine" (clean, etc... etc...), it's very boring.

Here's an idea to make it much more graphical.

Have a cut-away of a He-111 (it has to be some aircraft that uses almost all of the available controls- though ideally you could profile any aircraft you wished),
clicking on the landing gear selects the gear assignment, then push the button that you wish to assign - graphic: the landing gear goes up to confirm selection.

for the engine controls, graphical zoom in on the throttle quadrant and associated controls, click on the labeled item, assign button

For the bombardier controls the same. Graphical zoom in on the equipment in the cockpit, direct assigning of controls via mouse + game device button.

This would be so much more interesting and intuitive than the old IL2 "endless-scrolling until you get to the right control" exercise.

I know it's probably too late to suggest this, unfortunately.

C_G

For sure this would be more interesting than a list BUT you'd need a knowledge of the arrangement and controls of the aircraft in the picture in order to use it. The list works well in my opinion. I like the clean look of the interface too. Much more professional looking than a picture of a book open on an old desk like some have suggested. Just my opinion of course;)

[C_G]

For sure this would be more interesting than a list BUT you'd need a knowledge of the arrangement and controls of the aircraft in the picture in order to use it. The list works well in my opinion. I like the clean look of the interface too. Much more professional looking than a picture of a book open on an old desk like some have suggested. Just my opinion of course;)

Items would be labeled... in any case, I think development has gone too far for energy to be put into the sort of feature I suggest.

If I were to decide between the present type of list (modern/clean) vs. "faux historic" I would go for modern/clean.

[GOA_Potenz]

WOW the ammount of controls is insane, so for everybody like me
that was concern about the complexity of the sim, now i can do nothing
more than no sleep till have this sim in my PC.


Flying in full real will be a total new experience for MP and SP

Oleg how many axis we can control??? need to know as i'm building a
control box with axis.

REGS

POTZ

[orkan]

Menus must be functional, and a game/simulator immersive. Leave menus be. Respect typography. :)

[arjisme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqJwHdMDK0&playnext=1&list=PL7A2902274DE3248F&index=7
I don't see how camera shake can explain a continuous spiral pattern in the tracer smoke as shown in that video. It would explain the wiggly tracer light, but that isn't a spiral effect -- it is an erratic wiggle. But for the tracer smoke, as the camera moves across the scene, the smoke remains in its spiral pattern.

I assume the spiral pattern comes from tracer rounds that tumble.

[The Kraken]

I can't say whether this is the camera shake causing the effect, but then maybe this is modelled in SoW? In the same way that the different prop-visuals are modelled dependent on the speed the player sets the game to....?

The corkscrew tracer smoke is much too regular to be caused by a shaking camera. And if that was the case, they would be in synch with the distortion of the tracer images - hard to compare for sure with low-res youtube clips but it certainly doesn't look like that. I have no doubt that this is a real effect, not a perceived one.

[LukeFF]

I can see a massive profile being created for my CH controllers. :D

Looking good!

[frentzen2000]

I mean the question of the day is....

shall I purchase this year some "whatever" - christmas presents or shall I wait for the release of BOB SOW? That would be a real good gift :-P
Oleg would appreciate your advise ;)

Thanks for a upcoming great simulation

Best regards and have a good weekend

Manni

[flyingblind]

Another variation on the theme of assigning buttons to events which might be possible to set up would be to link the clickable cockpit to the controls menu in such a way that when the mouse selected the cockpit switch an option was given to enter and save key strokes/joystick buttons to the controls menu. A subsequent selection of that switch would also show the saved keys/buttons. This display could be turned off. This way it would be much quicker and easier to assign keys to events and it provides a ready reminder of the keys assigned any time in game. Some keys would be common to all planes and so would only need entering once for all whilst others would be common to a type of plane such as a bomber and a few may be unique to only one particular plane. This would give complete freedom to select and click switches in the cockpit when appropriate but use keyboard/controller buttons in a dogfight.

[Crunchieone]

I love the "rifling" in the smoke,nice touch.:)

[LoBiSoMeM]

The corkscrew tracer smoke is much too regular to be caused by a shaking camera. And if that was the case, they would be in synch with the distortion of the tracer images - hard to compare for sure with low-res youtube clips but it certainly doesn't look like that. I have no doubt that this is a real effect, not a perceived one.

Well, in 40's aircraft gun barrels aren't rifled?

If so, the projectiles came out of the barrel spinning, maybe because that we see the smoke spirals, isn't?

If I can remember, the first time I saw this "spiral" effect moddled in a game was in FarCry, in the sniper rifle projectiles. Very nice touch!

[winny]

Love the screens.

Can't believe the spiraling tracers is still even under debate. It's a fact.

Lots of things contribute, wing vibration, airflow across the guns, uneven burning of the tracer round, G-force, barrel condition and barrel rifling all contribute to this effect. Most bullets used at the time were also tail heavy (so they tumble easier) which can exagerate the wobble.

[Doogerie]

thanks for the HUGE updat Oleg i am so excited right now have a good week

[rollnloop]

Fantastic update, thanks Oleg !

[philip.ed]

Thanks, all, for the input on the tracers. :D Lots of helpful knowledge shared here.
Winny, I wasn't sure on the issue mate. I've had many people swear against the spiralling tracers, stating that the effect is down to the camera shake in gun-cam videos. As has been shown, a lot of evidence suggests that this might have added to the effect, but the effect is definately there ;)

To be Devil's advocate, how large can the spiral get? I'd imagine it's a lot smaller for the .303's and gun-cam videos that I've seen would support this.

Thanks in-advance.
I love the contrails too, they look great.

Oleg, are all effects shown 3D?

[kristorf]

'Kin ell, I will need a seperate keyboard just for the commands.............

Many thanks gents

[winny]

Thanks, all, for the input on the tracers. :D Lots of helpful knowledge shared here.
Winny, I wasn't sure on the issue mate. I've had many people swear against the spiralling tracers, stating that the effect is down to the camera shake in gun-cam videos. As has been shown, a lot of evidence suggests that this might have added to the effect, but the effect is definately there ;)

To be Devil's advocate, how large can the spiral get? I'd imagine it's a lot smaller for the .303's and gun-cam videos that I've seen would support this.



Spiral size is dependant on the size of the projectile. Because they travel nose first they can only spiral by a few degrees off centre before they nose would drop too far and the bullet would start to tumble (nose over tail). The zig-zag effect you sometimes see is due to camera shake but as your video shows, no ammount of shaking camera can recreate a spiral smoke trail.

[kendo65]

I'm 99% certain that the spiralling effect in the tracer smoke is down to rifling of the barrel causing the rounds to spin, rather than any camera-shake effect.

I'm really happy that this effect is modelled (visible on many gun-camera films from this era), but as Oleg has said previously all different types of round are modelled - previous tracers showed simple light-streaks with no smoke. I have no doubt that all are modelled accurately.

I'm a little bit surprised at some of the reactions to the spiral tracer smoke though - when the previous tracers were shown there was a chorus of voices asking where was the smoke?!?

[SlipBall]

Yes, the spiralling effect in the tracer smoke is because of the rifling of the barrel...absolutely:grin:

[philip.ed]

Once again, thankyou everyone :D Saves Oleg some time answering, too.

[Richie]

I really like the little JG 26 Crow. One of my favorite insignias. So whimsical.

[swiss]

You mean like making your own gear lever? You are right, that's a good question and i totally missed this when i was asking about such things just one post above yours. Supposing a two-way switch gives a continuous signal, then it would need different interpretation or handling by the game engine.

An instantaneous switch would just send the command "gear up", but having a two-way switch that stays in place would trasmit "gear up...gear up...gear up..." all the time :-P
Although, i think that you can get around this limitation by using certain kinds of circuit design for your custom controller. I'm not sure but i vaguely remember seeing some diagramms on leo bodnar's website about making his controllers work that way.



Where's the problem, use a flip switch, up and down each give the same signal, just like in IL2.

The only thing you should make sure is, that the switch is in down position before you lift off - can't go wrong.


Edit: No, I'm wrong.
In fact I would love to able to abort the retraction/extension process in midaction too.

[Richie]

I think he's funny

[Sutts]

I'm 99% certain that the spiralling effect in the tracer smoke is down to rifling of the barrel causing the rounds to spin, rather than any camera-shake effect.

I'm really happy that this effect is modelled (visible on many gun-camera films from this era), but as Oleg has said previously all different types of round are modelled - previous tracers showed simple light-streaks with no smoke. I have no doubt that all are modelled accurately.

I'm a little bit surprised at some of the reactions to the spiral tracer smoke though - when the previous tracers were shown there was a chorus of voices asking where was the smoke?!?


I think the debate was about whether the smaller RAF 303 rounds should have smoking tracers or not. In IL2 they didn't while the larger rounds did.

I've seen plenty of footage of smoke trails coming from 303 rounds but I'm sure as Oleg says, different tracers had different properties and some types may have been smokeless.

[Kwiatek]

I wonder what exacly mean and in which plane is such control:

Throttle War Emergency Power ??

I know 109 and Spit control panel and never see such thing?

[Sutts]

I wonder what exacly mean and in which plane is such control:

Throttle War Emergency Power ??

I know 109 and Spit control panel and never see such thing?

I think generally this was achieved by moving the throttle to its maximum position. In some aircraft a thin wire was in place which had to be broken before the emergency power could be activated. This also told the ground crew that the engine may have been stressed in combat. I'm no expert though!

[Sutts]

Yes, the spiralling effect in the tracer smoke is because of the rifling of the barrel...absolutely:grin:

I'm sure other factors were at play too as others have recently mentioned. The rifling of the barrel spins the bullet but it takes other factors to exagerate that spin and make it gyrate to the extent we're seeing in the films.

[SlipBall]

I'm sure other factors were at play too as others have recently mentioned. The rifling of the barrel spins the bullet but it takes other factors to exagerate that spin and make it gyrate to the extent we're seeing in the films.

Yes, like these and others no doubt::grin:

(quote)SliipBall
I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.:grin: __________________

[Osprey]

Oh, and +1 Vote for the US-language-version.


I believe that in the USA they speak English. There is no such language as 'US'.

It's such a shame that the main tutor of English in the World today is Microsoft Word.....

[Osprey]

Also, the Defiant gunners had problems bailing-out. Will this be modelled, too? (sorry if it's been asked before, but I don't remember seeing it posted ;) )


Please don't start Philip. This is a ludicrous question that will waste Oleg's time when he answers and you strike up a conversation. What do you want to know? If the relationship between the gunner arm length and harness release is realistically modelled, and their personality included in an algorithm to work out when they decide to try it so that we have an historically accurate chance of a rear gunner bailing out?

[Sutts]

Yes, like these and others no doubt::grin:

(quote)SliipBall
I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.:grin: __________________

Whoops:oops: Sorry Slipball, yes, those other factors you've already mentioned!

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

Not read the thread yet but I had to post after seeing that Boulton Paul Defiant!! I've loved that aircraft ever since I was a kid!! Is it flyable?? Is it, well, is it?? Please, I wanna fly it!!!

[kendo65]

I wonder what exacly mean and in which plane is such control:

Throttle War Emergency Power ??

I know 109 and Spit control panel and never see such thing?

Bear in mind that there may be features listed here that will be applicable for future developments in the series. For instance there is facility to control 8 engines - obviously for the future as there are no 8-engine aircraft in the Battle of Britain.

[major_setback]

I'm not sure I understand why there are so many comments on the spiral smoke. We have it in the FB already. Or am I missing something?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Fbscr040925a78cut05BESTrough.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/grab0056-1.jpg

[kendo65]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3967&d=1290177860

Looks like the ship in this pic may be taking avoiding action?

Certainly seems to be moving to port. Nice! (a little difficult to say for certain admittedly, but another advance over il2 if so)

[kendo65]

I'm not sure I understand why there are so many comments on the spiral smoke. We have it in the FB already. Or am I missing something?


My main reason for mentioning it was that a lot of people queried why it wasn't there when the previous tracers were shown.

[Richie]

I believe that in the USA they speak English. There is no such language as 'US'.

It's such a shame that the main tutor of English in the World today is Microsoft Word.....

English spelling is used in Canada and also I want to smack a kid when he says "Zee" instead of "Zed" Zee is a US invention.

[Splitter]

English spelling is used in Canada and also I want to smack a kid when he says "Zee" instead of "Zed" Zee is a US invention.

"Zed's dead, Baby. Zed's dead." :)

Tracers if I may summarize:

Yes, all of those guns are rifled (someone asked). The bullets are spinning around the longitudinal axis (basically). The spirals of smoke you see are from chemicals within the tracer rounds burning. The spiral effect is probably because the escaping gases from the burning chemicals are coming through an offset hole in the back of the projectile.

The rear end of the projectile itself is definitely NOT rotating that far off center. The smoke/spiral effect is just enhanced as the smoke spreads. If bullets wobbled that much they would lose energy far too quickly (like round balls shot out of a smooth bore).

Camera shake is something entirely different. When the camera is shaking due to subsequently fired rounds, the rounds appear to zigzag or vibrate.

Not all tracers trail clearly visible smoke. It depends on the chemicals used (as does color). There is a lot of guncam footage from American planes where little to no smoke is visible.

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjr8ZtEcrtE

Personally, I hate the smoke from German ammo. Way too much I think but from guncam footage I have seen, probably pretty close to accurate.

Splitter

[Richie]

"Zed's dead, Baby. Zed's dead." :)

Tracers if I may summarize:

Yes, all of those guns are rifled (someone asked). The bullets are spinning around the longitudinal axis (basically). The spirals of smoke you see are from chemicals within the tracer rounds burning. The spiral effect is probably because the escaping gases from the burning chemicals are coming through an offset hole in the back of the projectile.

The rear end of the projectile itself is definitely NOT rotating that far off center. The smoke/spiral effect is just enhanced as the smoke spreads. If bullets wobbled that much they would lose energy far too quickly (like round balls shot out of a smooth bore).

Camera shake is something entirely different. When the camera is shaking due to subsequently fired rounds, the rounds appear to zigzag or vibrate.

Not all tracers trail clearly visible smoke. It depends on the chemicals used (as does color). There is a lot of guncam footage from American planes where little to no smoke is visible.

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjr8ZtEcrtE

Personally, I hate the smoke from German ammo. Way too much I think but from guncam footage I have seen, probably pretty close to accurate.

Splitter

Americns!! lol

[heywooood]

I'm sorry but I refuse to release a game with planes that have a "carburettor" and an "airscrew" and an "empennage".

The project is now canceled.


I think these Ilya posts are what I have missed the most since the old days...haha

[bf-110]

Thanks Oleg,
Im wondering, where it sais "signal ground crew to remove brake shoes" , will we be able to see them doing this as an animation in the game ?

Is that related to aircraft carriers?

And I hope the Defiant can be flyable at some pack.Being gunner of a flying Flakvierling would be really mean!

[zakkandrachoff]

nice cannon tracers shoots

oleg, hurry up with Battle of Britain and start with Battle of moscow.

I

WANT

MY

F

4

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/aircraft/fighters/messerschmitt-bf-109-fighter/messerschmitt-bf-109-f-fighter/messerschmitt-bf-109-f-fighter-04.png
:-P

[heywooood]

Sure would be nice to be able to have the new sim automatically read my old config files from Il-2 and use those settings so I don't have to spend a whole day setting up my keys mappings and controls ;)

well - that way you would only have half of your setting profile done at best---

seriously - I think that getting the profile how you want it is one of the more fun aspects of setting up a new flight sim.....

[heywooood]

Page 7 and no-one has mentioned the smoking tracers?!?

Maybe too many other great things to comment on?

Excellent.

who was smoking a tracer?

[heywooood]

Could I mention that 'signal ground crew to remove brake shoes' should be 'signal ground crew to remove chocks'? Or simply 'signal chocks away'?

Also that 'Oil Radiator' is usually referred to as 'Oil Cooler'

The inclusion of the poor old Defiant is excellent.

Many Thanks


careful - might end up with 'single ground crew remove and break shoes' er sumpn...

better cancel the project - thanks Ilya

[heywooood]

Hi Oleg Luthier and teamwork guys.

Please just one thingin 4th part 4 shot::(

Why when a pilot or member crew bail out have this position of legs and arms?

Seems that it position is a professional or experts paratroopers with arms extended and legs bent.

I see in too many you tube videos that when a pilot bail out he falls like a rag doll ous of control falling and turning himself.

Oleg or luthier or somebody, can show me a picture tha show this position when a pilot bail out? I think that this position of bailing out was born in late 50s, no in ww2.

I hope that this position of bailing out was WIP. If no is WIP its sad see this positon.

Sorry for my bad english.

this is all way too important to ignore in a flight sim - if this isn't done to my liking I'm going to take up golf...and I feckin HATE golf!

[heywooood]

Lovely update, Oleg. It's great to see the Defiant in the game. I know it's a minor part of the sim, but I did send you a detailed picture of a Defiant gunner (in colour) to show the GQ Parasuit which they wore. Will you model this in the game? It's only a cosmetic part, so really it's a bit inconseqiential, but I was just interested (because of my love for RAF BoB gear). :D

Also, the Defiant gunners had problems bailing-out. Will this be modelled, too? (sorry if it's been asked before, but I don't remember seeing it posted ;) )

Keep up the excellent work. The Menu looks really easy to operate, which I think is great. I quite like the contemporary look, too. It reminds me of Brothers in Arms.


I love the Defiant too...because I heckled the fugly thing on the old forum once and got yelled at by all the Brits - nice teeth fellas

[heywooood]

Please don't start Philip. This is a ludicrous question that will waste Oleg's time when he answers and you strike up a conversation. What do you want to know? If the relationship between the gunner arm length and harness release is realistically modelled, and their personality included in an algorithm to work out when they decide to try it so that we have an historically accurate chance of a rear gunner bailing out?

yeah - just model it accurately - turret latch damaged - gunner trapped inside to the end.

they couldn't get out of those turrets in flight with all that gear on while flying sedately in a straight line - how would anyone expect them to get out with the plane in a death spiral?

[ECV56_LeChuck]

Excellent update!! Thanks Oleg!

[Richie]

nice cannon tracers shoots

oleg, hurry up with Battle of Britain and start with Battle of moscow.

I

WANT

MY

F

4

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/aircraft/fighters/messerschmitt-bf-109-fighter/messerschmitt-bf-109-f-fighter/messerschmitt-bf-109-f-fighter-04.png
:-P

No North Africa first

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

Let's have none of this colonialist nonsense over spelling conventions! Far too many 'zeds' and far too few 'ewes'!!

[heywooood]

oh I cant tell you all how sweet it is to be back in here reading the Friday Updates.

its absolutely GOLDEN


great update pics Oleg - I like the GUI the way it is...and if the background pic can be personalized that would be cool too - whatever

...could this sim be closer to release than anyone suspects?

+1 for Ilya's humorous postings..keep up the great work people

[lbuchele]

This friday updates are getting better and better.
Not only for the superb screenshots but we have a lot or fun too in some people demands...:-P
I'm already seeing Oleg and Ilya running wild in the office trying to find a picture of a pilot bailing out in the "right"
style...:rolleyes:

[heywooood]

one last remark though and I think it bears consideration.

haircuts

if the Brit pilots have German haircuts or the German pilots have English styles - or they all look Ukrainian I will not be buying this sim period - I don't care what kind of smoke the tracers have or that I can have rainbow tracer loadouts

one wrong haircut and I'm out - in the old sim they all had Russian flight helmets, made me sick! so I'm sure this time you guys will get that right at least - but the hair under those helmets?? we shall see

[Richie]

If this is off the topic say "yes" below and I'll wipe it out no problem :)

I'm sure when this sim comes out all of the friends and people who flew in the big servers in the Hyperlobby will find each other right away in a matter of days. Spits VS 109s, Warclouds ect. I say for the blue side we all follow the original plan in the never ending bomber night mission that will probably be going on in Spits VS 109s. Forget London. Leave it alone! I'd like to see what happens to these air fields under constant harasment. I think they get big holes in them do they not? I wonder what would happen if we all went on for about a week. Would the blue side just make a terrible mess of fighter command?

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

If this is off the topic say "yes" below and I'll wipe it out no problem :)

I'm sure when this sim comes out all of the friends and people who flew in the big servers in the Hyperlobby will find each other right away in a matter of days. Spits VS 109s, Warclouds ect. I say for the blue side we all follow the original plan in the never ending bomber night mission that will probably be going on in Spits VS 109s. Forget London. Leave it alone! I'd like to see what happens to these air fields under constant harasment. I think they get big holes in them do they not? I wonder what would happen if we all went on for about a week. Would the blue side just make a terrible mess of fighter command?

Well, there's always Douglas Bader and his Big Wing from 12 Group!!:grin:

[major_setback]

Oh thank god the defiant is in there! I feared he wouldn't make it in the release! But obviously he is alive and kicking!

One question about that moveable part on his back. Isn't that meant to be totally retracted in order to turn the turret? That is how I remember it from the days I made a scale model of a defiant... From the pictures I've seen it was always retracted if the turret was moving.

Is there someone who could enlighten me with some info about the use of that fin? I don't know what the use of it was. I suppose it had something to do with aerodynamics or some extra space for the gunners legs during non combat flights.

But great update oleg&team!



There is some interesting information in this thread (last page is about the fairings):

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=101278

"There are two other mechanisms, which control or are controlled by the turret rotation, the details are in the same AP.
1. Cam-operated air valves which control air cylinders that raise or lower the movable fairings. There are 2 valves one for each fairing. A gunner-operated lever extends an extra portion of the cam to allow the appropriate fairing to be raised when the guns are stowed. This lever covers the main switch to prevent the turret from being turned when the guns are stowed; it is labelled fairings up/down but actually has no effect when the turret is in any other rotational position.
2. There is a mechanical device that prevents rotation over the forward fixed portion of the fairing unless the guns are elevated enough to clear. There is provision for the guns to be lowered to the stowed position, this is where the electrical interrupter is required.."



Two ways to exit a Defiant!!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/phylo_roadking/defiantextraturret.jpg




It seems the pilot could also fire the (turret) guns!!!!:

"There was a threeway "gunner master switch" on the right hand side of the instruments in front of the gunner - when set to "off" there was no power in the circuit, when set to "gunner" HE fired the guns, and when set to "pilot the pilot could fire the guns from a standard firing button on his control column.
Ideally, if a gunner was injured he was supposed to traverse the turret to forward, and elevate the guns to 19 degrees or over (20 degrees or below was the best-fit angle for no-allowance shooting, apparently...but under 19 degrees and the prop gets it anyway! ) then transfer control of the guns to the pilot."
(Now I really want it to be flyable) :-)




There is information on the cut-out device for guns (to avoid self-shooting):

"A serious inaccuracy is the statement that “the Defiant had specific electric cut out or insulation points around the ring so as to prevent the gunner from shooting off parts from his own aircraft”. This quote is taken from page 31 of Mark Ansell’s otherwise excellent book on the BP Defiant. In fact the Defiant is fitted with a sophisticated interrupter gear, which allows independent control of the left and right hand pairs of guns in both rotation and elevation. It consists of a brass cylinder with a pair of sliding contacts (one for each pair of guns) that are moved via a cable according to the guns elevation. A chain drive rotates the cylinder in synchronisation with the turret. Insulated areas on the cylinder isolate the gun circuits as required. The contacts control the guns through relays thus reducing arcing around the insulated areas.
There are only two insulated areas for each gun one to avoid hitting the tail the other a small strip that prevents firing when the guns are in the forward stowed position. The interrupter gear is described in AP 1659C, Vol 1, Chap 3. The interrupter gear end is just visible at the top centre of the top photo on page 69 of Mark Ansell’s book.. It is also visible just under the turret ring immediately to the right of the ammunition boxes in the lower left photo on page 72."

Diagram:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189582&d=1288746934

[Richie]

Well, there's always Douglas Bader and his Big Wing from 12 Group!!:grin:

Roger that :)

I think this way Fighter Command will have to figure out how to watch over those fields the best they can but also try to stop the bombers before they come in. You'll have to really think and really fight hard! Split into two main groups maybe.

[Richie]

Jees I can't wait for this thing to come out LOL

[TheGrunch]

Please don't start Philip. This is a ludicrous question that will waste Oleg's time when he answers and you strike up a conversation. What do you want to know? If the relationship between the gunner arm length and harness release is realistically modelled, and their personality included in an algorithm to work out when they decide to try it so that we have an historically accurate chance of a rear gunner bailing out?
Really? They have to animate the gunner's exit from the aircraft anyway. It wouldn't take a horrible amount of time to just make the first part of the animation slower.

[major_setback]

Defiant walkarounds showing the inside of the turret (from a link in my previously posted link)

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31021

[AdMan]

Will there be an option to map different keys for different planes?

Are the key mappings universal for all planes? It would be much easier if you can choose the desired aircraft to map keys for, also when you select a certain aircraft the controls that don't pertain to that plane can disappear or at least be grayed out so it would be easier to identify the features of that plane without having to have a pilot manual or be an expert on that plane

small features like this just make sense and make the game more streamlined and user-friendly

[kaisey]

This friday updates are getting better and better.
Not only for the superb screenshots but we have a lot or fun too in some people demands...:-P
I'm already seeing Oleg and Ilya running wild in the office trying to find a picture of a pilot bailing out in the "right"
style...:rolleyes:

With all these comments and suggestions, I will be suprised if SOW is released before 2020.

[heywooood]

not to worry - they instead have learned how to bail out of these threads in the right style

the sim will be on time - or it will be canceled

thanks Ilya

[mungee]

With all these comments and suggestions, I will be suprised if SOW is released before 2020.

I agree 100%!

I respectfully suggest that we let OM and his team be "allowed" to complete the project without being asked to do time-consuming "nice to have's" - these can be the subject of future patches/add-on's!

[Feathered_IV]

Fantastic update. Tells us all kinds of stuff.

That pic of the distant aircraft leaving contrails... Twin engines, narrow fuselage, broad wings with pointed tips and straight, twin tail. Are those Hampdens?

[Blackdog_kt]

Will there be an option to map different keys for different planes?

Are the key mappings universal for all planes? It would be much easier if you can choose the desired aircraft to map keys for, also when you select a certain aircraft the controls that don't pertain to that plane can disappear or at least be grayed out so it would be easier to identify the features of that plane without having to have a pilot manual or be an expert on that plane

small features like this just make sense and make the game more streamlined and user-friendly

Good suggestion here, as long as i wouldn't have to map everything from scratch for every single aircraft. Maybe having a universal, base file or the ability to copy control schemes between planes would help with that, so that we wouldn't have to map universal controls like gear and flaps every time.

For example, i set everything up in the base control scheme, then select a hurricane and see i'm missing some controls, but not all of them (since the basic ones are covered in the base control scheme). I then go into the options screen and start a hurricane specific control scheme. The interface "reads" the information from the base file and transfers the universal control assignments, then i only define the missing controls that are specific to this aircraft and save it as "hurricane".

[kaisey]

not to worry - they instead have learned how to bail out of these threads in the right style

the sim will be on time - or it will be canceled

thanks Ilya

Ilya, for SOW to be cancelled now would be near criminal. I have been playing flight sims since the first PCs and this game looks stunning, a real credit to you guys, I have never been excited about a games release, but you have something special here and i am very excited about it.

PS. work some overtime..haha

[engarde]

Thankyou yet again Oleg, for taking time out of your schedule to post updates.

Merci beaucoup.

[Old_Canuck]

Let's have none of this colonialist nonsense over spelling conventions! Far too many 'zeds' and far too few 'ewes'!!

As a born Canadian, "Zed" always sounded stupid to me. I avoid it like the plague.

[Osprey]

Let's have none of this colonialist nonsense over spelling conventions! Far too many 'zeds' and far too few 'ewes'!!

Shouldn't you yanks be busy getting excited about the new royal engagement? :rolleyes:

[Osprey]

Really? They have to animate the gunner's exit from the aircraft anyway. It wouldn't take a horrible amount of time to just make the first part of the animation slower.

Have you people lost the plot? Let me get this straight. We have a BP Defiant being shot down and you want Oleg to divert project and hardware resources into modelling the various problematic scenarios that a rear gunner may or may not have in getting out?? :confused:

I suppose you want the gunner actually modelled so that if he's hit in the lung he has breathing trouble, or perhaps he can get concussion. I know, how about we model that he's having girlfriend trouble and his mind isn't quite on the job because of the tears in his eyes :rolleyes:

[He111]

Thanks, deffy shots look fantastic although those 109s are a tad close! :eek: Hope the AI isn't in ramming mode!?

.

[kendo65]

Fantastic update. Tells us all kinds of stuff.

That pic of the distant aircraft leaving contrails... Twin engines, narrow fuselage, broad wings with pointed tips and straight, twin tail. Are those Hampdens?

I assumed they were 110s, but on a closer look? Flying in vics and the plan of the trailing edge of the wings is more Hampden-like (or maybe just a trick of perspective).

I don't know.

Surely they wouldn't spring a surprise like that at this stage?

:) I'm not usually one to fall into the wilder 'speculation' that can come up here.

A moment's weakness ;)

[addman]

one last remark though and I think it bears consideration.

haircuts

if the Brit pilots have German haircuts or the German pilots have English styles - or they all look Ukrainian I will not be buying this sim period - I don't care what kind of smoke the tracers have or that I can have rainbow tracer loadouts

one wrong haircut and I'm out - in the old sim they all had Russian flight helmets, made me sick! so I'm sure this time you guys will get that right at least - but the hair under those helmets?? we shall see

LOL! You're funny, I disagree though. The spiralling tracer effects is really of utmost importance and making sure those spirals are 100% correctly modeled has to be regarded as no.1 priority. If I don't get my spirals then purchase of this SIMULATION is out of the question, spirals spirals spirals....spirals!

P.S All germans shall have mullet haircuts and the english shall have...whatever haircut they have in that foul weather of theirs.

[Blakduk]

These screenshots just keep getting better- the one of the Defiant being tailed by two 109's is extraordinary. Without too much effort that could be used by a movie studio- the lighting, atmospheric distortions, horizon etc look fantastic. The only obvious giveaway is the lack of antialiasing.
Oleg, this is looking like a masterpiece- the motion blur on the propellor is nearly perfect. I think i recall a previous statement that the virtual shutter-speed could be adjusted to get just the effect that the artist wanted.
I cant wait to see the damage modelling in action- the fragments raised at the wingtip look very realistic. I wonder are they pre-rendered or will each damage effect be unique/different?

[Daniël]

[QUOTE=kendo65;199695]I assumed they were 110s, but on a closer look? Flying in vics and the plan of the trailing edge of the wings is more Hampden-like (or maybe just a trick of perspective).

QUOTE]

It's a BR.20 Not a Bf110 or a Hampden.

[kendo65]

[QUOTE=kendo65;199695]I assumed they were 110s, but on a closer look? Flying in vics and the plan of the trailing edge of the wings is more Hampden-like (or maybe just a trick of perspective).

QUOTE]

It's a BR.20 Not a Bf110 or a Hampden.

:oops: Forgot about the Italians. Oh well, there goes another conspiracy theory...:)

[Sutts]

A quick question Oleg please....

It's my understanding that .303 ammo would at best make lots of small holes in an airframe and hopefully some of those holes would be in vital equipment and fuel and oil lines which could be ignited by the incendiary rounds. I also remember you saying that in SoW rifle caliber ammo will make a small hole exactly where it hits while cannon shells will produce more visible damage such as the large holes and torn skin we see in the He 111 shot.

What I'm wondering is what produced the damage we see in that shot of the heavily damaged He 111? There is a .303 equipped Spitfire behind it but the damage is not consistent with those guns.

Was it flak perhaps or another cannon armed Spitfire nearby?


Thanks!

[philip.ed]

Please don't start Philip. This is a ludicrous question that will waste Oleg's time when he answers and you strike up a conversation. What do you want to know? If the relationship between the gunner arm length and harness release is realistically modelled, and their personality included in an algorithm to work out when they decide to try it so that we have an historically accurate chance of a rear gunner bailing out?

As Heywoood said, the problem was in getting out of the turret! Many couldn't fit through the tight opening (if they were lucky to get it open) and in most cases it just wouldn't open. The parasuit helped them to fit through, but that was only given that they were able to open the damned thing!
Consequently, many parasuits were given out to other members of bomber-command because they were in surplus (a shame they aren't in surplus today! :D )

Sorry, I can see the misunderstanding.

[ATAG_Dutch]

A quick question Oleg please....

It's my understanding that .303 ammo would at best make lots of small holes in an airframe and hopefully some of those holes would be in vital equipment and fuel and oil lines which could be ignited by the incendiary rounds. I also remember you saying that in SoW rifle caliber ammo will make a small hole exactly where it hits while cannon shells will produce more visible damage such as the large holes and torn skin we see in the He 111 shot.

What I'm wondering is what produced the damage we see in that shot of the heavily damaged He 111? There is a .303 equipped Spitfire behind it but the damage is not consistent with those guns.

Was it flak perhaps or another cannon armed Spitfire nearby?


Thanks!

There was only one squadron operating cannon armed 1b's during the battle, and these usually jammed, to the extent that 19 squadron demanded their .303's back.
Eight .303's toed in to converge at a point at 200 yards have more effect than people tend to give them credit for.:)

[Tree_UK]

Hi Oleg, thanks for the update, i have a question though regarding pic number 5 of the third set, the shot up heinkel shows some wonderful damge features on the tail and on the fuselage, but on the wings it looks like some big ink splodges, is this just a detail setting or is it still WIP. Thank you.

[Sutts]

There was only one squadron operating cannon armed 1b's during the battle, and these usually jammed, to the extent that 19 squadron demanded their .303's back.
Eight .303's toed in to converge at a point at 200 yards have more effect than people tend to give them credit for.:)


I guess 8 rapidly firing guns might be able to put a lot of lead in one area. I can see panels popping off under such a barrage. What I can't see is large holes appearing in the skin which to me is more consistent with an explosive charge exploding on contact or beneath the skin.

The few photos I've seen of German aircraft downed during the BoB show lots of small holes and tears in the skin. The holes often look larger due to the flaking paint around the entry hole. Skin may lift due to rivets popping but I haven't seen big holes caused by .303s yet.

Would be nice to see some real life damage shots posted here if anyone has any please.:grin:

Cheers

[Daniël]

I guess 8 rapidly firing guns might be able to put a lot of lead in one area. I can see panels popping off under such a barrage. What I can't see is large holes appearing in the skin which to me is more consistent with an explosive charge exploding on contact or beneath the skin.

The few photos I've seen of German aircraft downed during the BoB show lots of small holes and tears in the skin. The holes often look larger due to the flaking paint around the entry hole. Skin may lift due to rivets popping but I haven't seen big holes caused by .303s yet.

Would be nice to see some real life damage shots posted here if anyone has any please.:grin:

Cheers

In one of the privious Friday updates there were some nice pictures of damage to planes posted by Xilon X, but I don't know which Friday update.

[tityus]

I failed to post before and this reply wil be at the 20th page. I hope you still reading Oleg...

I may have failed to read, but I saw only what apparently is a toggle for the undercarriage. To have separate UP and DOWN commands for the Undercarriage instead of using the same key, would be very beneficial for the simpit builders out there.

Please, consider it...

Bolelas: Can anyone tell me if the game will have the possibillity of adding on/of switches instead of having only the momentary switches like the ones on the keyboard?

Where's the problem, use a flip switch, up and down each give the same signal, just like in IL2.

The only thing you should make sure is, that the switch is in down position before you lift off - can't go wrong.
On the ground, one would have to flip switches to match the condition of the aircraft spawn in game - otherwise you would have reversed states. This can be an issue if a mission have planes attached do another, in-flight, or for an airstart mission. However, this suggestion is a practical low cost approach that shouldn't be discarded. It's very cost-effective, for its compromise.

Blackdog: An instantaneous switch would just send the command "gear up", but having a two-way switch that stays in place would trasmit "gear up...gear up...gear up..." all the time
Although, i think that you can get around this limitation by using certain kinds of circuit design for your custom controller.

Blackdog is right. There are some boards out there that act the way a simpit needs: they send one pulse of a user programmed key when the switch is flipped and another when it is flipped back. By sending a key instead of having it "pressed" all the time, it avoids "shrinking" of the keyboard or matrix conflicts... and depending on the project, it won't drain excessive current.

té mais
tityus

[kancerosik]

I don't see how camera shake can explain a continuous spiral pattern in the tracer smoke as shown in that video. It would explain the wiggly tracer light, but that isn't a spiral effect -- it is an erratic wiggle. But for the tracer smoke, as the camera moves across the scene, the smoke remains in its spiral pattern.

I assume the spiral pattern comes from tracer rounds that tumble.

1st:sorry for my bad english

2nd: The shell comes from the barrell rolling on his own axis.all modern guns (ww1-ww2 included) have this type of barrell.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1l-7rUoBD8Y/SnxBJl6T9dI/AAAAAAAAFPs/_YfkqgOcTBE/s320/600px-105mm_tank_gun_Rifling.jpg

3rd: the rolling smoke tracer is the consecuence of the fast cooling of the shell (high altitude) plus the "2nd point"

[swiss]

Cowl Flaps - key mapping

I hope the cf are not mapped again to a single key, for most ppl only use two positions; open or closed.

I would really welcome if they were mapped to an axis, or alternatively, you can choose the positions you use, and toggle between then.

Like:

Pos1: X
Pos2:
Pos3:
Pos4:
Pos5:
Pos6: X

Toggle: X

so you could toggle between 1 and 6 with only one key.

[Osprey]

As Heywoood said, the problem was in getting out of the turret! Many couldn't fit through the tight opening (if they were lucky to get it open) and in most cases it just wouldn't open. The parasuit helped them to fit through, but that was only given that they were able to open the damned thing!
Consequently, many parasuits were given out to other members of bomber-command because they were in surplus (a shame they aren't in surplus today! :D )

Sorry, I can see the misunderstanding.


Phil, he was taking the p*ss ;)


OFF TOPIC

[Osprey]

Polish Sqn 303 (not to be confussed with the gun) were famous for setting their guns at 100 yards and shooting germans down in quick order at that range. There was a doco done, poles were shafted in more ways than one in that war especially by allies! :evil:

.

When I read this complete ignorance it just makes me wish we (Britain) hadn't sent out the BEF in the first place when Hitler invaded Poland.

It beggars belief that some Poles seem to think that Britain and her allies was obliged to take on the Soviets in 1945 and free up Poland, like we could, needed to or wanted to anyway. We (Britain) bankrupted ourselves and let go of an Empire in order to fight Germany, sacrificing many people from the Commonwealth in the process. But the most galling of all is the contempt and disrespect you show those who died fighting for this. A thoroughly twisted and obtuse perspective you have He111.


OFF TOPIC

[BadAim]

I believe that there was a consensus of opinion on two other threads that much of the pollution of the previous updates has been us (and I include myself here) reacting to silly, repeat, rude, whatever questions.

Let's please show some respect for Oleg and let him decide what is an appropriate question to answer, or if it has already been asked just post a link (like he asked us to do) or Oleg's answer and save the judgment. If we feel the poster is being rude or obnoxious, let's just report the post to the admin and let it go.

If we'll police ourselves, then we won't need to be policed.

Just my $.02

[Sutts]

Here are some interesting shots of battle damage consistent with small caliber weapons like the .303.
I believe most of these are from the BoB period.
No large sections of skin blown away, just lots of smallish holes/tears and chipped paint.
Can anyone add to these please?

OFF TOPIC

[Sutts]

A few more....

[Freycinet]

Re: the GUI, we definitely shouldn't have an old school one, since this sim will hopefully branch out to other periods. This cool timeless GUI looks just right.

[Triggaaar]

Not sure if this has been asked before:

Oleg
IL2 had 3 zoom positions from inside the cockpit: Wide, Normal & Gun.
Will SoW have more options or allow variable adjustment, which would be useful for those with multiple or large displays?
Thanks

[Rodolphe]

...


Here are some interesting shots of battle damage consistent with small caliber weapons like the .303.
I believe most of these are from the BoB period.
No large sections of skin blown away, just lots of smallish holes/tears and chipped paint.
Can anyone add to these please?

This Do 17 Z of 9/KG3 managed to return to base with dozens of bullet holes.


5K+CT
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/KG3.jpg


...

[JAMF]

Oh, and +1 Vote for the US-language-version.I believe that in the USA they speak English. There is no such language as 'US'.

It's such a shame that the main tutor of English in the World today is Microsoft Word.....Riiiight. +1 for a US spelling version for the US people.

It's not like many of them have an easy time already with their own spelling, let alone an Oxford-English spelling. Fortunately there are dictionary extensions for Firefox and other browsers to ease their spelling when typing in a browser.

[Sutts]

...




This Do 17 Z of 9/KG3 managed to return to base with dozens of bullet holes.


5K+CT
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/KG3.jpg


...


Thanks Rodolphe! Very nice picture indeed. That's the clearest damage shot I've seen so far. Wonder if the larger holes were caused by larger caliber rounds or .303s striking at an angle?

Cheers

[Triggaaar]

Riiiight. +1 for a US spelling version for the US people.

It's not like many of them have an easy time already with their own spelling, let alone an Oxford-English spelling.-1 for a US spelling version. I don't think we should ask the developers to have to make adjustments for every country. It's a little desperate when you start to rely on fighting games to educate your country.

[Blackdog_kt]

Nice pictures of battle damage. I guess the bigger holes do indeed come from the projectiles striking at an angle as Sutts says.

You can see that they are not so round but elliptical in shape, indicative of a line of travel more or less parallel to the fuselage at the time of impact which results in "dragging" more of the fuselage skin along with the bullet as it penetrates.

Perfectly round holes on the other hand would be due to impact at a near 90 degree angle to the fuselage.

Finally, their appearance could also be slightly affected by the camera's viewpoint/orientation in relation to them when taking the picture.

Always nice to go on a collective hunt for the small details :grin:

[Rodolphe]

...


Thanks Rodolphe! Very nice picture indeed. That's the clearest damage shot I've seen so far. Wonder if the larger holes were caused by larger caliber rounds or .303s striking at an angle?

Cheers


;)

Similar view of the 5K+CT Flugzeug.
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/KG3a.jpg





Type of damage cause by Flak on a different Dornier (calibre unknown).

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Do17Damage.jpg






On May 17th 1940, this Do 17 of 5/KG 76 was damaged by the explosion of an ammunition truck during a low level attack of a French vehicles column.

F1+HN

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Do-17-Damage.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Do17Damage1.jpg

Note the mooring

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Do17Damage2.jpg


...

[diveplane]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3967&d=1290177860

Looks like the ship in this pic may be taking avoiding action?

Certainly seems to be moving to port. Nice! (a little difficult to say for certain admittedly, but another advance over il2 if so)

love the ocean wake

[SlowBurn68]

Noob question - What type of allied plane is that with the four gun touret on its back?

[Rodolphe]

...

Noob question - What type of allied plane is that with the four gun touret on its back?


Boulton Paul Defiant



One question about that moveable part on his back. Isn't that meant to be totally retracted in order to turn the turret? That is how I remember it from the days I made a scale model of a defiant... From the pictures I've seen it was always retracted if the turret was moving.

See around 2'15" and 3'20".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce9My4IKydo

...

[Rodolphe]

...



G1+FR is the same He 111 as shown on the first picture present by Sutts
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=199751&postcount=211




This aircraft was shot down on the August 16th raid to Feltham.
Flight Lieutenant Boyd of No. 602 Squadron put between 300 and 400 bullets holes in the bomber before it crashed at High Salvington, Sussex.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR.jpg



An innocent victim of the war !
The Corporal (right) and Private (left) are carrying ammunition drums "Doppeltrommel" for the MG15.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR1.jpg


...

[SlipBall]

Nice looking entry damage shots posted here!...it only makes me wonder if exit holes are modeled in SOW, which would be very cool.:grin:

[12Strings]

looks way cool.
even my kids are excited
thanks oleg.

[Osprey]

Riiiight. +1 for a US spelling version for the US people.


I'll go with that as long as when they do Pearl Harbour and the Pacific it's all in Queens English ;)

[Blakduk]

After looking at the shots of the menus i am very impressed with the depth of this game.
One criticism i have heard made about IL2 (from people i have introduced it to) is that the level of complexity can be overwhelming at first. It can be difficult to get people to persevere to appreciate what it can offer.
I worry that the same problem will be apparent in SOW- even more so.
I trust that Oleg's crew have figured out how to cater for noobs and get them hooked, so they can then push their limits and increase their knowledge incrementally.

[Richie]

I like the looks of those Do-17s. I hope they become flyable.

[Fafnir_6]

I like the looks of those Do-17s. I hope they become flyable.

+1 I definitely agree.

Fafnir_6

[major_setback]

After looking at the shots of the menus i am very impressed with the depth of this game.
One criticism i have heard made about IL2 (from people i have introduced it to) is that the level of complexity can be overwhelming at first. It can be difficult to get people to persevere to appreciate what it can offer.
I worry that the same problem will be apparent in SOW- even more so.
I trust that Oleg's crew have figured out how to cater for noobs and get them hooked, so they can then push their limits and increase their knowledge incrementally.

There was a very well respected TV show in Denmark (Trollspegeln) that did a review of a good flight sim a few years ago; I'm pretty sure it was the Original Il2. They are usually very good with their reviews, but of this flight sim they said it was terrible...because the planes kept crashing all the time, or fell out of the sky!

You need to cradle the noobs.

[Sutts]

...



G1+FR is the same He 111 as shown on the first picture present by Sutts
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=199751&postcount=211




This aircraft was shot down on the August 16th raid to Feltham.
Flight Lieutenant Boyd of No. 602 Squadron put between 300 and 400 bullets holes in the bomber before it crashed at High Salvington, Sussex.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR.jpg



An innocent victim of the war !
The Corporal (right) and Private (left) are carrying ammunition drums "Doppeltrommel" for the MG15.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR1.jpg


...


Thanks again for the shots Rodolphe, you're a mine of information.
From the story in the pictures, shooting down a bomber with .303s called for real accuracy (or very good luck). No great chunks flying off or huge holes appearing. Absolutely essential to get those rounds into some essential pipeline, cable or component.

This is where SoW is going to shine. With all those essential components modelled with their accurate hit boxes, this is going to test the accuracy of the best of us.

Brilliant stuff.:grin:

[Sutts]

Looking back through some old SoW shots, I found this one which matches pretty accurately the kind of .303 damage we're seeing in the period photos.

I hope the big hole was caused by flak or perhaps an exploding oxygen cylinder.

Maybe in a future patch we could see the elongated holes too where the round strikes at an angle. All in good time. LOL

[major_setback]

Badly beaten:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/3167105.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D89C90BE42FDDBB8FDEC3865EB2363940 CA52222F25EC092C

http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2-1RAF/WH2-1RAF016a.jpg

[Richie]

Tough old bird

[AdMan]

Good suggestion here, as long as i wouldn't have to map everything from scratch for every single aircraft. Maybe having a universal, base file or the ability to copy control schemes between planes would help with that, so that we wouldn't have to map universal controls like gear and flaps every time.

For example, i set everything up in the base control scheme, then select a hurricane and see i'm missing some controls, but not all of them (since the basic ones are covered in the base control scheme). I then go into the options screen and start a hurricane specific control scheme. The interface "reads" the information from the base file and transfers the universal control assignments, then i only define the missing controls that are specific to this aircraft and save it as "hurricane".

exactly you have your "defaults" that you set once, then you can go into each plane and customize

as an example, if you're a Nvidia user it would be like your graphic settings in the Nvidia control panel, you set your default settings but then you can select the games you have installed on your computer (games=planes in this analogy), for each option you can choose "use default" or set a customization.

unfortunately this idea will probably go unnoticed and mapping keys will continue to be a monumental task, one of my biggest gripes with PC gaming.

PLEASE READ OLEG, IF YOU NEED TRANSLATION ASK LUTHIER

[AdMan]

LOL! You're funny, I disagree though. The spiralling tracer effects is really of utmost importance and making sure those spirals are 100% correctly modeled has to be regarded as no.1 priority. If I don't get my spirals then purchase of this SIMULATION is out of the question, spirals spirals spirals....spirals!

P.S All germans shall have mullet haircuts and the english shall have...whatever haircut they have in that foul weather of theirs.

c'mon bro you couldn't have just gone with a different name?

[He111]

When I read this complete ignorance it just makes me wish we (Britain) hadn't sent out the BEF in the first place when Hitler invaded Poland.

It beggars belief that some Poles seem to think that Britain and her allies was obliged to take on the Soviets in 1945 and free up Poland, like we could, needed to or wanted to anyway. We (Britain) bankrupted ourselves and let go of an Empire in order to fight Germany, sacrificing many people from the Commonwealth in the process. But the most galling of all is the contempt and disrespect you show those who died fighting for this. A thoroughly twisted and obtuse perspective you have He111.

What are you raving about toss-pot? It was all in the doco, at the end of the war when all the allies marched in Victory celebrations, the Poles were not allowed to, thanks to Churchill who was scared of annoying the soviets. It's very sad that the Poles proved themselves more than adequate in the BOB but few are willing to acknowledge that! You have a serious attitude problem.

.

[Ibis]

Will pilots bailing out still be trying their sky diving skills as in the screen shot or will they do as they actually did and tumble from the aircraft?
Looking fantastic by the way.
I'll be in the line up to buy as soon as it is released.
cheers,
Ibis.

[Sutts]

Badly beaten:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/3167105.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D89C90BE42FDDBB8FDEC3865EB2363940 CA52222F25EC092C

http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2-1RAF/WH2-1RAF016a.jpg

Thanks Setback, another cracking shot I've never seen before. Just shows how ineffective hitting the rear fuselage can prove to be.

I wonder how easy it was to set the wing tanks ablaze in the He 111? I recently read a wartime report somewhere (could have been posted here) stating that something like 1 in 10 .303 incendiary rounds would ignite a self sealing fuel tank. I'd always believed previously that an HE round was required to open a hole up in the tank and expose the fuel to the air to allow ignition. Maybe the tanks took a few minutes to seal allowing some fuel to be exposed to the incendiary effects?

Interesting stuff.

[Hecke]

Looks like the He-111 has painted damage on its wings.
Hopefully this will not be in final because painted damage is from the last century and you've already shown that "real" damage is possible.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Thanks Setback, another cracking shot I've never seen before. Just shows how ineffective hitting the rear fuselage can prove to be.

I wonder how easy it was to set the wing tanks ablaze in the He 111? I recently read a wartime report somewhere (could have been posted here) stating that something like 1 in 10 .303 incendiary rounds would ignite a self sealing fuel tank. I'd always believed previously that an HE round was required to open a hole up in the tank and expose the fuel to the air to allow ignition. Maybe the tanks took a few minutes to seal allowing some fuel to be exposed to the incendiary effects?

Interesting stuff.

Shots like these really go to show the necessity of shooting at convergence when your using low penetration rounds like the .303.

Although it is obvious that enough systems were damaged to bring the plane down, 700 rounds is about 29% of a spitfires 2400 round loadout (I think its 300 rounds per gun in the Mk1A)

With my average hit% at about *cough*5%*cough* it would take me a lot of trips to bring down a single bomber.

Cheers!

[Romanator21]

Fantastic update. Tells us all kinds of stuff.

That pic of the distant aircraft leaving contrails... Twin engines, narrow fuselage, broad wings with pointed tips and straight, twin tail. Are those Hampdens?

They are Fiat Br.20s mate. It's hard to tell in this attachment (see original post instead) but these planes have a yellow stripe around the fuselage, and the rudders are not at the stabilizer tips, but towards the middle, I think (leftmost aircraft).

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3960&d=1290177753

http://en.valka.cz/files/fiat_br_20_m.gif

The resemblance is too close...

[Rodolphe]

...



Two ways to exit a Defiant!!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/phylo_roadking/defiantextraturret.jpg

If the Gunner concludes to exit his flying Defiant through the bottom hatch, the Pilot need to lower the landing gear as this configuration automatically retracts the rear VHF aerial mast into the aero plane belly.
That done the mast won't spear the Gunner as he, after moving the aerial wire aside, escapes through the bottom hatch, . ;)
.


...

[Rodolphe]

...



One question about that moveable part on his back. Isn't that meant to be totally retracted in order to turn the turret?
That is how I remember it from the days I made a scale model of a defiant... From the pictures I've seen it was always retracted if the turret was moving.


A similar system on the Blackburn Roc.

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/Roc1.JPG



Anecdotal Roc ;)
The Roc was so obsolete that it was quickly ruled out of the fighting.
One naval unit commander ordered that his Rocs should be used in an anti-aircraft role, parked around the 'drome turret manned during air-raids.


...

[JAMF]

-1 for a US spelling version. I don't think we should ask the developers to have to make adjustments for every country. It's a little desperate when you start to rely on fighting games to educate your country.Looks like the message got across, even without a sarcasm smiley. :)

I'll go with that as long as when they do Pearl Harbour and the Pacific it's all in Queens English ;)
:D IIRC locations are exempt from spelling corrections, in such cases. ;)

In my 'neighbourhood' we do have quite a few cities that have their own name in French/German/Dutch:
Bastogne / Bastenach / Bastenaken
Liege / Luttich / Luik
Aix-Chapelle / Aachen / Aken

Two language names are much more common.

[swiss]

Looks like the He-111 has painted damage on its wings.
Hopefully this will not be in final

How tf do you know if it's a texture overlay or indeed calculate?
You may not like the apearance, no problem with that.

but this:


because painted damage is from the last century and you've already shown that "real" damage is possible.

...is the fastest way to turn this thread into another flame war.
last century": What do you know about PC in the last century?
You were 6.
Also, the comparison is sooooo not needed!
You can dislike it, no prob - but you dont have to unload additional ordnance just to make sure we know you really dont like it.

And last but not least: Honestly I don't know if its possible at all.
Just think of two shoot up B29 plus a few P47, all of them can take a crapload of damage.
Then there are another 30 or so online players, all with less to none damage at all.
I have serious doubts even top-end pc could handle all this without turning it into a slideshow.

[Triggaaar]

What are you raving about toss-pot? It was all in the doco, at the end of the war when all the allies marched in Victory celebrations, the Poles were not allowed to, thanks to Churchill who was scared of annoying the soviets. It's very sad that the Poles proved themselves more than adequate in the BOB but few are willing to acknowledge that! You have a serious attitude problem.What is this doco you refer to? And who doesn't recognise how good the Poles were in the BoB - they were among the best pilots with the most experience, and anyone in Britain who knows anything about the war is aware of that (have you seen the film BoB?).

What exactly are you suggesting that Churchill did wrong?

[winny]

Thanks Setback, another cracking shot I've never seen before. Just shows how ineffective hitting the rear fuselage can prove to be.

I wonder how easy it was to set the wing tanks ablaze in the He 111? I recently read a wartime report somewhere (could have been posted here) stating that something like 1 in 10 .303 incendiary rounds would ignite a self sealing fuel tank. I'd always believed previously that an HE round was required to open a hole up in the tank and expose the fuel to the air to allow ignition. Maybe the tanks took a few minutes to seal allowing some fuel to be exposed to the incendiary effects?

Interesting stuff.

The RAF did some tests in 1940 to see why they were failing to down bombers.

The problem was that the small bullets fired by the RAF's MGs could not carry enough incendiary or explosive to guarantee success, and also had insufficient penetration to defeat armour reliably.

Ground tests carried out by the British, firing at an old Bristol Blenheim from 180 m to the rear with various British and German guns and ammunition, revealed that the .303 incendiary B Mk VI bullets would set light to a Blenheim wing tank with only one hit in five; during the Battle only one or two of the eight guns were normally loaded with this ammunition. Other .303 and 7.92 mm incendiaries were only half as effective.

Both German and British armour-piercing rounds could penetrate up to 12 mm of armour plate if fired directly at it from 180 m, most of the bullets were deflected or tumbled by first passing through the fuselage skin or structure. As a consequence, only a quarter to a third of the bullets reached the Blenheim's 4 mm-thick armour plate at all, and very few penetrated it.

There are loads of reports of German bombers comming home with over 200 bullet holes. The 8 x .303 were more effective against fighters.

[ATAG_Dutch]

What is this doco you refer to? And who doesn't recognise how good the Poles were in the BoB - they were among the best pilots with the most experience, and anyone in Britain who knows anything about the war is aware of that (have you seen the film BoB?).

What exactly are you suggesting that Churchill did wrong?

Not wanting to inflame yet another slanging match, but I saw the documentary. It was part of a series showing the importance of the participation of foreign nationals in many of Britain's conflicts throughout history. Quite well done and informative.

It discussed the diplomatic embarrassment of Churchill, having commited in 1940 to restoring all European borders and governments, being unable to do so in the case of the subsequent 'Eastern Bloc' including Poland.
He's correct in that the Poles were not allowed to participate in the Victory marches, in spite of their outstanding contribution to the overall victory.
A sad circumstance brought about by diplomatic failures. I don't think He111 suggested that the Cold War should have been warmed up a bit, just that it was sad about the ignoring of the Poles at the parades.

I also don't think anyone with any knowledge of WWII worth speaking of would either underestimate or belittle the Poles from any perspective.

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

Looks like the message got across, even without a sarcasm smiley. :)


:D IIRC locations are exempt from spelling corrections, in such cases. ;)

In my 'neighbourhood' we do have quite a few cities that have their own name in French/German/Dutch:
Bastogne / Bastenach / Bastenaken
Liege / Luttich / Luik
Aix-Chapelle / Aachen / Aken

Two language names are much more common.

you're from where again?

[Triggaaar]

It discussed the diplomatic embarrassment of Churchill, having commited in 1940 to restoring all European borders and governments, being unable to do so in the case of the subsequent 'Eastern Bloc' including Poland.
He's correct in that the Poles were not allowed to participate in the Victory marches, in spite of their outstanding contribution to the overall victory.
A sad circumstance brought about by diplomatic failures.Ah, you mean the Poles living in Britain. It's a bit of an understatement that the poles got a bad deal in general, but I think complaining about Churchill is just a bit silly. He didn't have to declare war on Germany at all, he could have easily remained neutral, along with a bundle of other European nations. It would have been better for the British people (less death, less destruction, less hardship, more money). It's difficlut to overstate how stupid British diplomats were following the war, footing such a large bill for it all.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Ah, you mean the Poles living in Britain. It's a bit of an understatement that the poles got a bad deal in general, but I think complaining about Churchill is just a bit silly. He didn't have to declare war on Germany at all, he could have easily remained neutral, along with a bundle of other European nations. It would have been better for the British people (less death, less destruction, less hardship, more money). It's difficlut to overstate how stupid British diplomats were following the war, footing such a large bill for it all.

Well, actually it wasn't Churchill who declared war, it was Chamberlain, although Churchill had advocated gearing up for action since before the re-militarisation of the Rhineland.
I'd say the Allied diplomats were stymied, rather than stupid, but you're certainly correct about us 'footing the bill'.
On the other hand 'victory at all costs, no matter how long and hard the road may be' may have included the financial cost, which of course bankrupted the Empire Churchill loved so much. A price he was prepared to pay to see the downfall of 'a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime'.
Thinking about the society we now 'enjoy', I often wonder what he'd think of it.:)

[JAMF]

you're from where again?Limboland. ;) Het zuid-oosten van Limburg.

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

Limboland. ;) Het zuid-oosten van Limburg.

LOL!, redelijk kleine wereld dan als je bedenkt dat ik in zuidwest limboland zit. :)