Friday 2010-11-19 Dev. update and Discussion

[JAMF]

LOL!, redelijk kleine wereld dan als je bedenkt dat ik in zuidwest limboland zit. :)

:cool:

[gww6323]

LOL!, redelijk kleine wereld dan als je bedenkt dat ik in zuidwest limboland zit. :)

zo zo,een hele kleine wereld,en ik westen

[Daniël]

Komt er niemand uit Friesland?;)

[Peffi]

Ich freue mich so abzuschießen Deutschen in SOWBOB. BOB wird über einen Tag und Hitler Übergabe am nächsten Morgen.

[swiss]

autotranslators suck. :grin:

[Peffi]

But they get the poin across ....

[philip.ed]

Please can we talk about SoW?

[kedrednael]

zo zo,een hele kleine wereld,en ik westen

Ik kom uit Zeeland ;)

[322Sqn_Dusty]

En ik er tussen in .....

Bastenaken? Ik hou het bij Bastonge..

Nice update btw, finally the 200 programmable functions on the sticks will be used. And the load/save function for the axis functions.

What's with the impeller?

[DuxCorvan]

http://www.zaragoza-adminfincas-abogados.com/keys.jpg
http://www.eagle-engraving.com/axes.jpg

[McHilt]

Jezus, die nederlanders zijn nog in de meerderheid hier... 's-Hertogenbosch dan?
:mrgreen:

Ok, that was some dutch OT, so... back to the studio.;)

@ Romanator21: man, you sure have attention to detail regarding that yellow fuselage band.

[Richie]

Please can we talk about SoW?

Are the airfields going to take on relistic damage from bombs etc. making it very it difficult to take off? If so this will make the real "Battle Of Britain" missions a lot more fun.

[major_setback]

...



If the Gunner concludes to exit his flying Defiant through the bottom hatch, the Pilot need to lower the landing gear as this configuration automatically retracts the rear VHF aerial mast into the aero plane belly.
That done the mast won't spear the Gunner as he, after moving the aerial wire aside, escapes through the bottom hatch, . ;)
.


...

From the posts in the link it seems that the lower exit route was more difficult to use. If the plane is flipped over on take off or landing though, it would become essential.

[major_setback]

autotranslators suck. :grin:

les autotraducteurs sucent. :-)

bien entendu

-

Back translation:

'Thems automatised translator thingamajigs aren't half awful.'

[Triggaaar]

Are the airfields going to take on relistic damage from bombs etc. making it very it difficult to take off? If so this will make the real "Battle Of Britain" missions a lot more fun.It would be quite difficult to get this right. In IL2 (closed cockpit) a pilot can't look around the field properly before take-off, meaning they can't see where the craters are.

[Richie]

I think something like this would happen.

[Richie]

I just found a pretty informative map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Battle_of_Britain_map.svg

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

That is a pretty interesting map. Amazing to see that radar could see pretty much everything over the French coast.

[He111]

Not wanting to inflame yet another slanging match, but I saw the documentary. It was part of a series showing the importance of the participation of foreign nationals in many of Britain's conflicts throughout history. Quite well done and informative.

It discussed the diplomatic embarrassment of Churchill, having commited in 1940 to restoring all European borders and governments, being unable to do so in the case of the subsequent 'Eastern Bloc' including Poland.
He's correct in that the Poles were not allowed to participate in the Victory marches, in spite of their outstanding contribution to the overall victory.
A sad circumstance brought about by diplomatic failures. I don't think He111 suggested that the Cold War should have been warmed up a bit, just that it was sad about the ignoring of the Poles at the parades.

I also don't think anyone with any knowledge of WWII worth speaking of would either underestimate or belittle the Poles from any perspective.

Thanks, I couldn't have replied better myself. Funny, one agreeing post was deleted then the rant? what's going on?

BTW, those Defiant kill shots, experienced 109 pilots attacked from 6 oclock low or head on. I hope the AI has this understanding, ie don't attack from 6 oclock high. To counter that, I hope the Defiant AI banks left or right giving the gunner full view of anything below.

another interesting point, 264 sqn developed interesting tactics to defend against 109s. I think it was a descending spiral or defensive circle. I hope the AI can do that as well! .. please! :grin:

.

[klem]

No, no, no, Lutheir, you had it right the first time :).

.........................It really is not difficult to read the British version.

.........................................

Splitter

I should hope so, it took us long enough to compile it from Gaelic, Roman, Saxon, Norman, French, various Scandinavian/Viking and German. Oh, and the original "Uggg". And what do you guys do? Mess it up ! :)

[Blackdog_kt]

Are the airfields going to take on relistic damage from bombs etc. making it very it difficult to take off? If so this will make the real "Battle Of Britain" missions a lot more fun.

When talking about craters in another recent thread, mr. Maddox himself said that taxing over them does cause damage.

I don't know how this is calculated and how long the craters will persist (eg in a multiplayer scenario, or if damage carries over even in the single player campaign), but the fact that they can ruin your day has been pretty much confirmed. According to mr Maddox, that same pic of the damaged hurricane with the collapsed main gear that you posted was due to taxing over a crater.

Cheers :grin:

[Friendly_flyer]

Sorry I'm late to the party:

Wohooo, Daffy! Bloody neat pictures of it too!

[major_setback]

I just found a pretty informative map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Battle_of_Britain_map.svg

Some really good maps:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/WH2-2Epi-c007a.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/BattleOfBritainMap-cropped.gif

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/MapUK-RAF-I-5.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/map01.jpg

[Osprey]

What are you raving about toss-pot? It was all in the doco, at the end of the war when all the allies marched in Victory celebrations, the Poles were not allowed to, thanks to Churchill who was scared of annoying the soviets. It's very sad that the Poles proved themselves more than adequate in the BOB but few are willing to acknowledge that! You have a serious attitude problem.

.

The moment you called me a tosspot is the moment you proved your lack of knowledge for your argument.

You have a massive chip on your shoulder, you make yourself look an idiot comfortably.

[Osprey]

Well, actually it wasn't Churchill who declared war, it was Chamberlain, although Churchill had advocated gearing up for action since before the re-militarisation of the Rhineland.
I'd say the Allied diplomats were stymied, rather than stupid, but you're certainly correct about us 'footing the bill'.
On the other hand 'victory at all costs, no matter how long and hard the road may be' may have included the financial cost, which of course bankrupted the Empire Churchill loved so much. A price he was prepared to pay to see the downfall of 'a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime'.
Thinking about the society we now 'enjoy', I often wonder what he'd think of it.:)

Precisely, which is what angers me so much about idiotic viewpoints like He111 expressed. The cost to the UK to fight Germany was a massive price, and I'm not talking about money alone. When I look back on it after hearing these sorts of comments a part of me just asks why we just didn't bother and let Hitler cut up Poland for good while we made hay from it all instead. Of course there was so much evil going on that would've been morally contemptible so not withstanding the political position of a strong German empire we did what was right - but it's not enough for some Poles, they are bitter about why we didn't do anything about Stalins massive army Ultimately Poland was simply a weak nation that we stood by as best we could. Maybe if the Poland weren't so keen on handing themselves a Baltic port after WW1 and carving Germany in two and upsetting their other neighbours by taking their territory from 1918-21 then perhaps they would've been bypassed in the first place.

[csThor]

Hardly. In the eyes of many germans Poland was simply a ... pardon the term ... bastard state which existed solely by the grace of the Entente and which contained areas many germans considered ur-german. And this wasn't just the opinion of the right-wing extremists but many conservative and even center to left-leaning ones. Or should I remind you that it was the Entente who declared that Upper Silesia was to be given to Poland despite a 59,4% pro-german vote in a plebiscite in 1922 (a remarkable vote given that many non-german nationals seem to have voted for Germany, too)?

[Igo kyu]

While all of that is probably fine (meaning I'm not up enough on the history to question it), what did get in Churchill's craw as I understand it, was having to send the Poles who survived fighting for us in the BoB home to Stalin's tender mercies, and often life in Gulags for fighting for "the enemy". I don't know what the numbers are, but that isn't something I'm happy about, if it happened to one that's one too many.

[FS~Lewis]

To save me trolling as I guess someone has already asked this question.....

so...

Does anyone know what the spec of the PC's that were used at the Igromir 2010 show in the 'Battle of Britain' exhibit?

I know that they were under powered for the sim...but it would still be valid info to have an idea of what may be needed upon release...

Thanks...

...lew...

[philip.ed]

To save me trolling as I guess someone has already asked this question.....

so...

Does anyone know what the spec of the PC's that were used at the Igromir 2010 show in the 'Battle of Britain' exhibit?

I know that they were under powered for the sim...but it would still be valid info to have an idea of what may be needed upon release...

Thanks...

...lew...

From memory: I5 processors, 2 GB RAM (the minimum is 3) and an nvidia GTX 460.
The poor fps in some of the videos was due to memory loss as a consequence of the insubstantial RAM. I'm sure there was a picture posted somewhere of the complete specs, but I can't find it ATM...

[Mick]

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=120353&d=1288883202

[philip.ed]

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=120353&d=1288883202

Cheers Mick, you're always so helpful ;)

[Mick]

... and this was my very first post here ... only for you mate ...!!

[philip.ed]

Hehe :D thanks mate.


-I'm wondering; when the Defiants first entered the Battle, the 109's mistook them for Hurricanes which proved costly when they were met with the rear gun-turret. Once they realised what the Defiant was, the Luftwaffe pilots knew that head-on attacks would easily down the defiants, without the 109's meeting any return fire.
Oleg has said how the AI will have some form of experience (you could be flying against a veteran or a rookie) so I'm wondering if there's a chance the AI could make similar mistakes in the game? Clearly in the shots posted, the 109's have attacked from the rear. (although of course we've only seen a glimpse of the battle)
I know the AI is a very complex thing, but I'm just curious whether somthing like this is tangible for SoW...?

Thankyou ;)

[LukeFF]

FFS, can we please stay on topic for once in our lives? This topic is to discuss the latest dev update for SoW, not about Polish-British relations during the war. If it's that important of a topic to discuss, then create a new thread and discuss it there.

[matsher]

There was only one squadron operating cannon armed 1b's during the battle, and these usually jammed, to the extent that 19 squadron demanded their .303's back.
Eight .303's toed in to converge at a point at 200 yards have more effect than people tend to give them credit for.:)

Thanks Rodolphe! Very nice picture indeed. That's the clearest damage shot I've seen so far. Wonder if the larger holes were caused by larger caliber rounds or .303s striking at an angle?

Cheers

Nice pictures of battle damage. I guess the bigger holes do indeed come from the projectiles striking at an angle as Sutts says.

You can see that they are not so round but elliptical in shape, indicative of a line of travel more or less parallel to the fuselage at the time of impact which results in "dragging" more of the fuselage skin along with the bullet as it penetrates.

Perfectly round holes on the other hand would be due to impact at a near 90 degree angle to the fuselage.

Finally, their appearance could also be slightly affected by the camera's viewpoint/orientation in relation to them when taking the picture.

Always nice to go on a collective hunt for the small details :grin:

...



G1+FR is the same He 111 as shown on the first picture present by Sutts
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=199751&postcount=211




This aircraft was shot down on the August 16th raid to Feltham.
Flight Lieutenant Boyd of No. 602 Squadron put between 300 and 400 bullets holes in the bomber before it crashed at High Salvington, Sussex.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR.jpg



An innocent victim of the war !
The Corporal (right) and Private (left) are carrying ammunition drums "Doppeltrommel" for the MG15.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/G1FR1.jpg


...

Looking back through some old SoW shots, I found this one which matches pretty accurately the kind of .303 damage we're seeing in the period photos.

I hope the big hole was caused by flak or perhaps an exploding oxygen cylinder.

Maybe in a future patch we could see the elongated holes too where the round strikes at an angle. All in good time. LOL

Badly beaten:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/3167105.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D89C90BE42FDDBB8FDEC3865EB2363940 CA52222F25EC092C

http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2-1RAF/WH2-1RAF016a.jpg

As much as I am a fan of realism, tonight I am in LaLa land (So please indulge me)
I can't stand the thought of having to put in hundreds of rifle rounds into a Nazi machine only to do some interior redecorating. These wonderful historical pictures make me mad just looking at them. I want to have the Deep satisfaction of seeing the wings sheer off, huge explosions, fireballs and mayhem.

All these fantastic screenshots are really getting my blood up...
I want to customize my spit into a pimped out hell machine, Instead of my 8 .303's I want 8 Vulcan Gatling guns ( Yeah, thats right, 48 barrels of screaming allied death):twisted:

Now before all you guys get all like, he's soooo unreasonable, I am prepared to compromise... The Vulcan's might be asking a wee bit too much, so to show you that I am a totally reasonable psychotic, I am prepared to settle for 8 of those cute little Cobra Gatling 3 barrel 20mm numbers.:-) I don't think thats asking too much.



Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

Thanks, rant over - La La land is a great place to be ...
This is what happens when you watch "hottub Time Machine"
and then read the weekly updates...

[swiss]

I hope you're just drunk.

But know you mention it, a few rapid fire Bk3.7 in FW190 would be cool to have, those B17 are pita to shoot down. lol

[He111]

Precisely, which is what angers me so much about idiotic viewpoints like He111 expressed. The cost to the UK to fight Germany was a massive price, and I'm not talking about money alone. When I look back on it after hearing these sorts of comments a part of me just asks why we just didn't bother and let Hitler cut up Poland for good while we made hay from it all instead. Of course there was so much evil going on that would've been morally contemptible so not withstanding the political position of a strong German empire we did what was right - but it's not enough for some Poles, they are bitter about why we didn't do anything about Stalins massive army Ultimately Poland was simply a weak nation that we stood by as best we could. Maybe if the Poland weren't so keen on handing themselves a Baltic port after WW1 and carving Germany in two and upsetting their other neighbours by taking their territory from 1918-21 then perhaps they would've been bypassed in the first place.

What idiotic viewpoints? that Poland should have been allowed to march in the Victory parade? or that Osprey is a IL2 troll who thinks he knows better than anyones else even when he misinterprets posts? Anyway it wasn't my viewpoint, it was the view of the documentary, which i accepted as accurate. Although i should have realised Osprey knows more about WW2 than any documentary maker! :-P

[FS~Lewis]

Big Thanks....Mick...Phillip.Ed...

[Osprey]

Hardly. In the eyes of many germans Poland was simply a ... pardon the term ... bastard state which existed solely by the grace of the Entente and which contained areas many germans considered ur-german. And this wasn't just the opinion of the right-wing extremists but many conservative and even center to left-leaning ones. Or should I remind you that it was the Entente who declared that Upper Silesia was to be given to Poland despite a 59,4% pro-german vote in a plebiscite in 1922 (a remarkable vote given that many non-german nationals seem to have voted for Germany, too)?

The fact that the decided borders were enough to cause problems later on is what matters. I think you agree anyway, you are also saying that the inhabitants didn't want it, but since they where on the losing side then they don't get to decide anyway, especially by opinion polls conducted years after the borders are drawn.

I would have though the corridor to the coast was more of a thorn to Germany than former Austrian territories in the south though.

[Osprey]

What idiotic viewpoints? that Poland should have been allowed to march in the Victory parade? or that Osprey is a IL2 troll who thinks he knows better than anyones else even when he misinterprets posts? Anyway it wasn't my viewpoint, it was the view of the documentary, which i accepted as accurate. Although i should have realised Osprey knows more about WW2 than any documentary maker! :-P


I simply reacted to your post declaring that Poland was betrayed by her Allies after Polish pilots excelled in the BoB. You cited no reference to a TV program nor mentioned anything to do with a victory parade.

And I do get rather tired of this fallacy that somehow Polish pilots were way better than all of the other nations in the BoB. Or is it years of line shooting on their behalf that has distorted the facts of the matter, or are they some sort of master race?

Just as a reminder here's what you wrote:
Polish Sqn 303 (not to be confussed with the gun) were famous for setting their guns at 100 yards and shooting germans down in quick order at that range. There was a doco done, poles were shafted in more ways than one in that war especially by allies! :evil:


Sorry Luke, I just feel like a good argument this weekend :)

[Richie]

I feel bad for that poor little rabbit :(

[WTE_Galway]

And I do get rather tired of this fallacy that somehow Polish pilots were way better than all of the other nations in the BoB. Or is it years of line shooting on their behalf that has distorted the facts of the matter, or are they some sort of master race?



Well the stories told say they just seriously hated the Germans because of what had happened to their country and did not see the air war as a "chivalrous" battle. They fought ruthlessly, took huge personal risks and had little regard for their own safety, often disobeyed orders to get a kill, pursued any damaged aircraft relentlessly making sure they were destroyed, showed no mercy. They were not after glory they just wanted to kill as many Germans as possible.

How true those stories are, who can tell these days.

[AndyJWest]

...I do get rather tired of this fallacy that somehow Polish pilots were way better than all of the other nations in the BoB

Not entirely a fallacy. The Poles, along with Czechoslovaks, made a significant contribution to the BoB:
[The RAF was] bolstered by the arrival of fresh Czechoslovak and Polish squadrons. These had been held back by Dowding, who mistakenly thought non-English speaking aircrew would have trouble working within his control system. However, Polish and Czech fliers proved to be especially effective. The pre-war Polish Air Force had lengthy and extensive training, and high standards; with Poland conquered and under brutal German occupation, the pilots of No. 303 (Polish) Squadron, the highest-scoring Allied unit, were strongly motivated. Josef František, a Czech regular airman who had flown from the occupation of his own country to join the Polish and then French air forces before arriving in Britain, flew as a guest of 303 Squadron and was ultimately credited with the highest "RAF score" in the Battle of Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#Foreign_contribution

This contribution is well documented, in numerous reliable sources.

[WTE_Galway]

Its also worth pointing out that the Luftwaffe suffered 258 aircraft destroyed in Poland with an additional 263 damaged of which 60% were unrecoverable.

Roughly Luftwaffe 420 aircraft lost in the invasion of Poland.

Whilst not huge losses compared to the 1887 lost in the Battle of Britain that is still pretty impressive for an air force whose front-line fighter was the PZL P11C.

[Les]

As much as I am a fan of realism, tonight I am in LaLa land (So please indulge me)
I can't stand the thought of having to put in hundreds of rifle rounds into a Nazi machine only to do some interior redecorating. These wonderful historical pictures make me mad just looking at them. I want to have the Deep satisfaction of seeing the wings sheer off, huge explosions, fireballs and mayhem.

All these fantastic screenshots are really getting my blood up...
I want to customize my spit into a pimped out hell machine, Instead of my 8 .303's I want 8 Vulcan Gatling guns ( Yeah, thats right, 48 barrels of screaming allied death):twisted:

Now before all you guys get all like, he's soooo unreasonable, I am prepared to compromise... The Vulcan's might be asking a wee bit too much, so to show you that I am a totally reasonable psychotic, I am prepared to settle for 8 of those cute little Cobra Gatling 3 barrel 20mm numbers.:-) I don't think thats asking too much.



Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

Thanks, rant over - La La land is a great place to be ...
This is what happens when you watch "hottub Time Machine"
and then read the weekly updates...

La la land or not, you do raise the point, inadvertently perhaps, that the new series will be openly moddable to a great extent.

A sufficiently motivated individual or group could make jet-powered flying out-houses if they wanted to. The scope is wide open for outright fantasy mods. Whatever you can imagine. Flying cars, Snoopy and the Red Barron, X-wings and Tie-fighters, UFO's, laser-firing rocket-powered bi-planes, cartoon planes shooting marshmallows at witches on broomsticks, you name it.

It seems most of us, most of the time, are so wrapped up in our preferred range of interests we forget the potential mods and products that could be spun out of what Oleg and his team are putting together here.

I wouldn't play them myself, but I think it'd be great to see sales of the overall series increased through projects like that. Pure arcade xxxx, or outright kids stuff aimed literally at four year olds. Bring it on.

No need for it to interfere with the sort of stuff we're into here, and it can only be good if it increases overall sales of the base product or engine.

Anyway, just sayin.

[Aquarius]

Not entirely a fallacy. The Poles, along with Czechoslovaks, made a significant contribution to the BoB

Thank you for reminding of czechoslovakian assistance, I was really thinking that nobody will mention it. Btw, in the polish 303. were some czech fighters as well...

If somebody is more interested in informations about czech airmen in RAF,here is a fine web
http://www.rogerdarlington.me.uk/czechsinraf.html

As a czech, I would like to know...it will be possible to fly in foreign (czech propably) squadron:)? If not...are you going to at least include somehow aspect of foreign airmen?...It could be used by promotion of game in other countries:)
Regards and sorry for my english

[GOZR]

This is a good job !! but here it seems that we lost insim 3D viewer witch was great to see skins of 3D work instead of entering inside a mission ( loading time )
With IL2 3D viewer when you choose an aircraft it's easy and fast to see all the planes.. but the way it is in Storm of War , look very painful for Skins maker and modders..

Is there any other way to see controlled rotating models with out going into a mission ?
Thanks.

[Blackdog_kt]

This is a good job !! but here it seems that we lost insim 3D viewer witch was great to see skins of 3D work instead of entering inside a mission ( loading time )
With IL2 3D viewer when you choose an aircraft it's easy and fast to see all the planes.. but the way it is in Storm of War , look very painful for Skins maker and modders..

Is there any other way to see controlled rotating models with out going into a mission ?
Thanks.

You mean the rotating aircraft viewer in the arming screen where we also select skins, right? Very good question, nicely spotted.

On the other hand, SoW seems to have really fast loading times. Just seeing how fast those below-specs machines at igromir went from the menu to loading up the game, i was very pleased.

Not to mean that an ingame 3d viewer that only loads the aircraft and not the entire map is undesirable, but even if it's missing from the first version we might be able to manage with firing up a QMB mission to check out the skins, until it's included in a patch.

[Foo'bar]

Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

Some of you're taking it just too personal, I guess :rolleyes:

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Welcome to England Bitches, You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

LOL! :grin:

It made me laugh, anyway.....That's the Spirit Bonny lad! :grin: Think someones been raiding the 'Babycham' cupboard. :-P

[Triggaaar]

I can't stand the thought of having to put in hundreds of rifle rounds into a Nazi machine only to do some interior redecorating.I know what you mean, while we want a historically accurate sim, we also want a balanced game. If the German aircraft had air to air missiles in WWII the Battle of Britain wouldn't have lasted long, and a game of it would be too one sided and pointless. But in the real BoB, Germany lost a lot more aircraft than Britain, so if it is historically accurate, your guns won't just be doing decorating. I appreciate that the German tactics were poor, and us gamers won't make those same mistakes in our 109s, but even so.

Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.Lol :mrgreen:

Some of you're taking it just too personal, I guess :rolleyes:Personal! You killed my family!

I'm kidding, lighten up, he was just having a laugh about crazy ammunition in his fighter, and being aggressive towards some imaginary bomber. Instead of 8 .303's he wants 8 Vulcan Gatling guns. That’s clearly having a laugh and not being personal.

[Richie]

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

[PeterPanPan]

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

Interesting pov ...

[Avimimus]

It certainly didn't keep them from following orders and killing a lot of people.

But, as for satisfaction - there is something about having to memorize the location of the enemy's fuel tanks - or gradually weaken and cripple the enemy over several runs (both more chivralic and your opponent knows that they are beaten). I personally moved beyond the Mk-108 many years ago (back on SWOTL) in preference to longer and closer fights. However, I can certainly see the appeal of the occasional fireball.

[Richie]

It certainly didn't keep them from following orders and killing a lot of people.

But, as for satisfaction - there is something about having to memorize the location of the enemy's fuel tanks - or gradually weaken and cripple the enemy over several runs (both more chivralic and your opponent knows that they are beaten). I personally moved beyond the Mk-108 many years ago (back on SWOTL) in preference to longer and closer fights. However, I can certainly see the appeal of the occasional fireball.

Well you're not going to leave your butt planted in a chair playing cards while enemy fighters and bombers are zooming around are you?...Or are you??? That statement makes no sense to me. A Spitfire, Hurricane or Mustang pilot all had the same job as a 109 pilot. Kill or be killed. If you don't kill that enemy he's going to get you.

[Triggaaar]

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

Well you're not going to leave your butt planted in a chair playing cards while enemy fighters and bombers are zooming around are you?...Or are you??? That statement makes no sense to me. A Spitfire, Hurricane or Mustang pilot all had the same job as a 109 pilot. Kill or be killed. If you don't kill that enemy he's going to get you.You have more choice than kill or be killed. If you feel that the war effort you are involved in is seriously wrong and immoral, you have several choices. You can defect, refuse to fight (you'd have to run to neutral ground, easy in a 109), or even just not be very good. For example, a 109 pilot in a good position in the BoB could easily just turn and run home, assuming no one was watching. Even say you shot down the enemy and get a pat on the back.

[Dietger]

You have more choice than kill or be killed. If you feel that the war effort you are involved in is seriously wrong and immoral, you have several choices. You can defect, refuse to fight (you'd have to run to neutral ground, easy in a 109), or even just not be very good. For example, a 109 pilot in a good position in the BoB could easily just turn and run home, assuming no one was watching. Even say you shot down the enemy and get a pat on the back.

Well I congratulte you Triggaaaaar!
You cant be serious about history!!!!:!:

Now how do you play alone in multiplayer? Sitting there on you English hedgerow lighting candles with them defected Gutmenschen1O9 pilots,
contemplating about all the poor multiplayers, beeing shot down by bad ass Nazis online fliers like me?

Salute!
Dietger

[swiss]

The Tommy could run too, no? :mrgreen:

[Osprey]

Well the stories told say they just seriously hated the Germans because of what had happened to their country and did not see the air war as a "chivalrous" battle. They fought ruthlessly, took huge personal risks and had little regard for their own safety, often disobeyed orders to get a kill, pursued any damaged aircraft relentlessly making sure they were destroyed, showed no mercy. They were not after glory they just wanted to kill as many Germans as possible.

How true those stories are, who can tell these days.


...I do get rather tired of this fallacy that somehow Polish pilots were way better than all of the other nations in the BoB
Not entirely a fallacy. The Poles, along with Czechoslovaks, made a significant contribution to the BoB:
Quote:
[The RAF was] bolstered by the arrival of fresh Czechoslovak and Polish squadrons. These had been held back by Dowding, who mistakenly thought non-English speaking aircrew would have trouble working within his control system. However, Polish and Czech fliers proved to be especially effective. The pre-war Polish Air Force had lengthy and extensive training, and high standards; with Poland conquered and under brutal German occupation, the pilots of No. 303 (Polish) Squadron, the highest-scoring Allied unit, were strongly motivated. Josef František, a Czech regular airman who had flown from the occupation of his own country to join the Polish and then French air forces before arriving in Britain, flew as a guest of 303 Squadron and was ultimately credited with the highest "RAF score" in the Battle of Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...n_contribution

This contribution is well documented, in numerous reliable sources.


And this is exactly why I think it is skewed. Nobody is doubting contribution however little attention is paid to very important details such as how long a squadron actually spent on the front line given the frequent rotation system and how many pilots or aircraft they actually lost by a squadron, or which airfield they operated from, or which aircraft types they attacked. It's pretty meaningless. The trouble is that the raw figure is somehow seen as a measure of skill and ability which is very misleading.
The Luftwaffe may have lost 258 aircraft in Poland but that does not mean that 258 were shot down my Polish fighters - there are many ways to lose an aircraft.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not belittling contribution, but I don't accept that Poles were simply better than everybody else. That's nonsense.

[philip.ed]

Do any of you have the sensibility to just create a new topic and hammer away there? All you need to do is just quote the last reply and continue. ;)
thanks in advance

[Triggaaar]

Well I congratulte you Triggaaaaar!
You cant be serious about history!!!!:!:What?

Now how do you play alone in multiplayer? Sitting there on you English hedgerow lighting candles with them defected Gutmenschen1O9 pilots,
contemplating about all the poor multiplayers, beeing shot down by bad ass Nazis online fliers like me?We're not talking about the game, we're talking about the options people had in real life. I fly 109s online, 190s, whatever.

[Splitter]

Do any of you have the sensibility to just create a new topic and hammer away there? All you need to do is just quote the last reply and continue. ;)
thanks in advance

AGREED! Not that I haven't been guilty of it in the past too but I would LOVE to see a thread about which sides people fight for in IL-2 and why.

The Poland debate could have its' own thread too though I think it would be all emotion.

Splitter

[LukeFF]

Do any of you have the sensibility to just create a new topic and hammer away there? All you need to do is just quote the last reply and continue. ;)
thanks in advance

+1

[Richie]

Was there a publisher named yet or if not does anybody have a clue?

[Richie]

Also when is the big interview and the answers to all of the questions that were asked going to be posted on Simhq?

[matsher]

Originally Posted by matsher View Post

As much as I am a fan of realism, tonight I am in LaLa land (So please indulge me)
I can't stand the thought of having to put in hundreds of rifle rounds into a Nazi machine only to do some interior redecorating. These wonderful historical pictures make me mad just looking at them. I want to have the Deep satisfaction of seeing the wings sheer off, huge explosions, fireballs and mayhem.

All these fantastic screenshots are really getting my blood up...
I want to customize my spit into a pimped out hell machine, Instead of my 8 .303's I want 8 Vulcan Gatling guns ( Yeah, thats right, 48 barrels of screaming allied death)

Now before all you guys get all like, he's soooo unreasonable, I am prepared to compromise... The Vulcan's might be asking a wee bit too much, so to show you that I am a totally reasonable psychotic, I am prepared to settle for 8 of those cute little Cobra Gatling 3 barrel 20mm numbers. I don't think thats asking too much.



Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.



I know what you mean, while we want a historically accurate sim, we also want a balanced game. If the German aircraft had air to air missiles in WWII the Battle of Britain wouldn't have lasted long, and a game of it would be too one sided and pointless. But in the real BoB, Germany lost a lot more aircraft than Britain, so if it is historically accurate, your guns won't just be doing decorating. I appreciate that the German tactics were poor, and us gamers won't make those same mistakes in our 109s, but even so.

Lol :mrgreen:

Personal! You killed my family!

I'm kidding, lighten up, he was just having a laugh about crazy ammunition in his fighter, and being aggressive towards some imaginary bomber. Instead of 8 .303's he wants 8 Vulcan Gatling guns. That’s clearly having a laugh and not being personal.

Aaaah, don't Stress Trig, Foo'Bar knew I was kiddin' - I fink one could best describe his comment as being liberally ironic...
Although that being said, if Foob's was up in one of 'em He-111steering his way to airmail me old mums outhouse with an over-sized German suppository...
I'd try and make it as personal as I possibly could... Me and my 8 Vulcans...
Or to be more correct, my 8 Vulcans and I... ;)


Welcome to England Bitches, You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

LOL! :grin:

It made me laugh, anyway.....That's the Spirit Bonny lad! :grin: Think someones been raiding the 'Babycham' cupboard. :-P

You know, I really wish I could say that I was drunk when I wrote that...
Glad you liked it, I think we should start a new thread to come up with the most
crazed & ludacris cross national insults to hurl at each other...

How about ...

The Queen rang and said STOP IT!!! You Naughty Naughty Germans.

Or maybe...

Why don't you geysers just bugger off, we never came round your gaf and pissed in your Sauerkraut...

Or...

'ello Hans, fancy a .303 prostate check

Or...

Hey Fritz, for what I am about to do to you, the polite thing to do would be to buy you a drink first.



It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

Yeah Richie I know you're right, but its just not as much fun to think I am shooting down an nice affable guy flying an aeronautically androgynous fighter plane.
I'd far rather imagine you to be a fire breathing blood sucking Nazi vampire sent by satan to eat the hearts of our innocent children... (Shrug)
It adds a little something.

[Richie]

I totally understand matsher lol :)

[Ploughman]

My mum was slow to the shelters when York was bombed. Saved her life. Her family hid under the stairs, when the raid was over the shelter at the end of the street had been hit and everyone in it killed. Today you can almost read each bomb's fall, there's an empty bit of land or some unkind post-war thing inplace of the the noble Edwardian terraces, each string reaching like a searching finger towards the marshalling yards around the station. It wasn't a big raid even by the scale of 1942, but it nearly ended my life before it began. I can't help standing awestruck when I find a building that still has the blast scars of a WWII bomb up it. There's one in Bath that seems like a lithograph of violence, the splash of shrapnel up its stone face. I can't help feeling how helpless an individual must have felt against such nationalised murder, I don't suppose it was any different for anyone else.

[matsher]

Soooo, What you're sayin' is,
You so totally had a thing for Raymonds mom, I can dig it,
and she can cook, did she ever know, did you ever tell her, Hmmm,
did you ever tell Raymond??? I think we'd all like to know...

Thanks for sharing, we all have our little motivational triggers. Now please give us a really
good insult for the insult wall. If there are any really good ones, we'll pick the best, and I'll get them recorded.
You can do a German to England insult.

Here's a thought starter...

Hallo sind Gingerpubes,
Sie vorbereiten, um zu lernen zu beginnen, Deutsches zu sprechen

[Xilon_x]

i think Oleg have a surprise for me you now developed BoB and in future Oleg Maddox developed IL-2 STURMOVIK 1946 II.

[nearmiss]

The update threads are for discussions about the update information ONLY!

If you want to have discussion about off topic start a thread.

The Sticky threads are ONLY for discussion about Update starter postings from Oleg or Luthier.

The thread is being locked, because there have been too many complaints from members that are interested to maintain integrity of the update stick threads.

Next week, off topic discussions in update thread will get you a 1 week ban. I'm saying it now so everyone gets the message.