Warrior Skill - Counter Attack

[Demagami]

Not sure if any of you realise, but isn't Counterattack a tad overpowered? It gives your humanoid troops a 100% chance to counter back at least 4 times I think. Added to the fact that as a fighter, you have higher attack /defense, this ability is devastating when used on horsemen.

Because horsemen already have an innate physical resistance, boosting it with stoneskin, items and arch mage shield, I am pretty sure horsemen are almost unkillable. Plus, when you can berserk them eventually, it is is just pretty insane.

At the moment, my berserk horseman stack, with a focus on attack, and items that increase physical damage, now kills almost every stack instantly on a critical strike or counter attack.

I am having lots of fun with it, but does it not kind of downplay the abilities of other racial creatures? Undead, for example, seem relatively weak, though I understand that if Counterattack worked with vamps / ancient vamps, it did be crazy.

Any thoughts on this skill?

[Metathron]

Well, I guess we can put this one in the Overpowered Strategies basket, then. :)

[Demagami]

Amusingly enough, I guess Counter-attack may as well be read as 'Grants the Furious Trait to all human troops' (100% chance for unlimited retaliation)

Funny cause I think this single skill allows some humanoid units to ironically perform much better than dragons or other similar level 5. But I am loving it though. Wish this ability would extend to ALL units - this would make all sorts of race or unit combination pretty interesting.

Anyone can change this skill to affect all units? =p

[ckdamascus]

It affects more than humans. I am almost sure of it.

Humanoid means human-like, we in two arms and two legs.

It does not specify "normal height" humanoids or all humanoids which would include giants.

Goblins, orcs, alchemist, shaman, skeletons, etc should count here. You'd be surprised, feel free to experiment.

I think it is a fun skill to have and might make for some very fun Impossible No Loss runs. :)

Opens up more options for different units.

[Demagami]

I am pretty sure vampires and skeletons don't get affected by it despite the fact they do have the necessary limb attachments. Ancient vampires with retaliation... now that is seriously scary but fun....

[ckdamascus]

I am pretty sure vampires and skeletons don't get affected by it despite the fact they do have the necessary limb attachments. Ancient vampires with retaliation... now that is seriously scary but fun....

Try it. According to the manual, they count as "short humanoids" (not to be confused with giants).

So they would have been affected by say the Steel Armor item.

Anyway, just treat them like any other unlimited retaliation unit, nuke them from afar or cripple them with spells first. Sheeped ancient vampires aren't worth much even if they do have 4 counterattacks. :)

Besides, this opens up more units, since there were only 2 major units that had "unlimited counterattacks". The royal griffin (and griffin) and black knights with the shard.

That really made those guys prime choices to use for high level game play. Now you can make horsemen useful, or other units, etc.

More options, more variety, more fun! :)

[BB Shockwave]

Demons/Executioners are 'furious' too.

I am finding the Paladin's Holy Armor skill pretty usefull, myself. Units taking only 50% damage, often saved my Horsemen from dying.

[Fatt_Shade]

I quess you ppl figure this ous by now, but i only started CW recently.
Warriors countrstrike works on Orc chieftans and Trol also :-) 5th lvl unit with 4 retaliations = scary :-)

[jake21]

Yea I found the paladin skill the most useful; mage special skill (for me) was totally useless; made me sad. The warrior counter attack is very decent but obviously this depends if you most use humans or not.

Demons/Executioners are 'furious' too.

I am finding the Paladin's Holy Armor skill pretty usefull, myself. Units taking only 50% damage, often saved my Horsemen from dying.

[atlatea]

I agree with jake, warrior skill is decent, but it is not as good as holy armor in some of the hardest battle of the game. While mage skill is indeed the most inferior of the 3.

[BB Shockwave]

Yea I found the paladin skill the most useful; mage special skill (for me) was totally useless; made me sad. The warrior counter attack is very decent but obviously this depends if you most use humans or not.

What is the Mage's new skill?

[ckdamascus]

What is the Mage's new skill?

At level 3, reduction of 25% leadership requirements for all mage-like units such as
Shaman, Demonlogists, Rune Mages, Archmages, Necromancers, Druids, etc.

It isn't horrible, since the Rune Mage is an excellent unit to have and it puts the Mage's leadership at about par with the Paladins with regards to mage units.

[atlatea]

It is not that horrible, but inferior to the other.

Well, most mage type units are not that good, both in dmg or survival, they're just there for support. I usually left my rune mage after i got to verona, and using it again in the last island loop (i use unicornxp loop sequence) only for taking on bosses (especially k'tahu).

[BB Shockwave]

It is nice, yes. I find the Paladin's skill very usefull, although as I tend to kill the opposition fast around midgame, I did not invest in it further then level 1. I bet in long battles it pays off.

Even in The Legend this Mage skill worked for many units other then the ones the skill description mentions. Hmm, this will be worth investing with my demon build due to the demonologists.

[ckdamascus]

It is nice, yes. I find the Paladin's skill very usefull, although as I tend to kill the opposition fast around midgame, I did not invest in it further then level 1. I bet in long battles it pays off.

Even in The Legend this Mage skill worked for many units other then the ones the skill description mentions. Hmm, this will be worth investing with my demon build due to the demonologists.

It pays off a lot in those mid-game battles where you got one super stack fo red dragons that has to tank a LOT of hits, and you simply don't have the firepower to really cripple the enemy yet. Boom, the little holy armor thing goes off ... whew. :)

Yes, the Mage demon build will work well with it, but don't forget the rune mages too. Don't forget the level 3 summon. Ahh.... so many disposable units. So much fun. I also had verrry high critical hit rates with those demons. Also a mage can do a few spot resurrections or dual phantom rune mage to resurrect more stacks units in a single round.

I think with that build I went with
- rune mages
- arch demons
- demons
- demonesses
- demonologists

You can also do phantom demonologists so you can keep threading the enemy, and reviving your archdemons as they smash their way through to victory. :)

It was quite evil. Against lesser bosses, I find archdemon was my best bet, and phantom demons was 'OK'. The rune mage and demonologists weren't too bad for the summon tankage.

Against greater bosses like Ktahu, Gremlin... oh god. I think I had to succumb to black knight stack.

[ckdamascus]

In 1.3.1, a bug no doubt as it is written in Russian, if you mouse over your Defense, you can see the number of Counter Attacks you have remaining. Naturally, this also means you have the ability to Counter Attack.

So, you can check which units can counter-attack during battle.

By the way, while casting berserk on your Horsemen is nice, I like how counter-attack works on...

Ogres, Orc Chieftains, and Trolls. I just finished the game using those 3 guys are mega monsters in the mid-late game along with Black Dragons and Rune Mages.

Ogre with ogre rage avoids the need to spend time on berserker. :)

[Gus]

Hi all,

Since I trained in the Academy and did the mission, I received the Counter-Attack skill, but I don't know where it shows up, how to use, how to level it, etc.

Any help? I'm sure it's very dumb, so if you help me, I'll let you mock me =P

Thanks!

[ckdamascus]

Hi all,

Since I trained in the Academy and did the mission, I received the Counter-Attack skill, but I don't know where it shows up, how to use, how to level it, etc.

Any help? I'm sure it's very dumb, so if you help me, I'll let you mock me =P

Thanks!

It is in the Magic Tree! Near the top-middle area.

It works on most humanoid melee units. It seems to let any melee unit counter attack an additional number of times based on the level of counter attack.

So, if you have counter-attack level 3, you can counter attack 4 times per round. When you mouse-over your unit stats (either in the defense tab or something), you can see the number of times remaning per round, albeit in russian.

[Gus]

Ah yeah, I knew I was being stupid ^^

Thanks for your help =) Too bad it only works for humans, I just switched to Orcs... But I kept a stack of Paladins, so maybe...

[ckdamascus]

Ah yeah, I knew I was being stupid ^^

Thanks for your help =) Too bad it only works for humans, I just switched to Orcs... But I kept a stack of Paladins, so maybe...

I said humanoids, not necessarily just humans. So, it should work on NON-UNDEAD bipeds like orcs.

It works on Trolls, Ogres, and Ogre Chieftains which was the basis of my "Shrek" army. :)

[Gus]

Ah yeah, stumbled upon references to that "Shrek" army while browsing the forums. I'm going to look it up more precisely. Thank you for the precision, your help is much appreciated =)

[DeepSoul]

Not sure if any of you realise, but isn't Counterattack a tad overpowered? It gives your humanoid troops a 100% chance to counter back at least 4 times I think. Added to the fact that as a fighter, you have higher attack /defense, this ability is devastating when used on horsemen.

Because horsemen already have an innate physical resistance, boosting it with stoneskin, items and arch mage shield, I am pretty sure horsemen are almost unkillable. Plus, when you can berserk them eventually, it is is just pretty insane.

At the moment, my berserk horseman stack, with a focus on attack, and items that increase physical damage, now kills almost every stack instantly on a critical strike or counter attack.

I am having lots of fun with it, but does it not kind of downplay the abilities of other racial creatures? Undead, for example, seem relatively weak, though I understand that if Counterattack worked with vamps / ancient vamps, it did be crazy.

Any thoughts on this skill?

It's too bad that it doesn't work on dragons because I mostly use those for tanking. Humanoid troops(except lvl 5 orcs and trolls?) have low hp and you don't want to let the enemy hit them too many times. When you say horsemen have increased armor, try knights, pallys or black knights. They are also humanoids. I know they are slow but you can just cast haste on them or let the enemy come to you. ^^

[infernal1800]

It's too bad that it doesn't work on dragons because I mostly use those for tanking. Humanoid troops(except lvl 5 orcs and trolls?) have low hp and you don't want to let the enemy hit them too many times. When you say horsemen have increased armor, try knights, pallys or black knights. They are also humanoids. I know they are slow but you can just cast haste on them or let the enemy come to you. ^^

Nahh, I think if the dragon had this skill, it would be too powerful. Does the skill affect Paladin and Dwarf :confused:

[1darklord]

I have counterattack and use Paladins and Knights, they usally take around 70 damage then deal 20'000 back. :lol: (they both have 100% critical for counterattacks)

Of course that assumes anything is alive by the time they get a turn, I always go first (onslaught) my speed 6 Knights walk over and usually insta kill 3-4 stacks of the enemy.

Should any die, well that's what my Paladins and Inquisitors are there for. :)

Daniel.

[Fatt_Shade]

Paladins and knights are good for counter strike skill, but i think orc`s really shine with it. Orc and orc veterans, with Moldok compannion are hilarious ,bring paladins just to revive them, but items you must get to have great time are battle axe x2 if possible. 40% more dmg for melee units is great in combo with counter strike, and they are easy to resurrect.

[Lord deSword]

Has anybody noticed what this skill does on 3rd level? It says - "...counters any melee attack" - and it really does - my paladins, knights, even the EGDs counter against Royal Snakes, Assassins, Vampires!!! Although the EGD doesn't get more than one counter-strike per turn, it also counter-strikes against guys with "No Retaliation". Which makes this skill the most Imba of all!!!

[1darklord]

Has anybody noticed what this skill does on 3rd level? It says - "...counters any melee attack" - and it really does - my paladins, knights, even the EGDs counter against Royal Snakes, Assassins, Vampires!!! Although the EGD doesn't get more than one counter-strike per turn, it also counter-strikes against guys with "No Retaliation". Which makes this skill the most Imba of all!!!

Hmm no I hadn't noticed that, it could be I never leveled it up to the 3rd level, will have to in future though! :D

Daniel.