Officer's Patent

[ckdamascus]

[Thanks Hunkie!]
From battle_akademy.lua:
Peasant > Footman/Bowman/Priest/Pirate/Robber
Footman > Guardman/Witch-Hunter
Guardman > Knight/Horseman/Paladin
Priest > Inquisitor/Witch-Hunter
Archmage > Necromancer/Demonologist/Rune-Mage
Pirate > Sea-Dog/Ghost-Pirate
Dwarf > Cannoneer/Foreman
Orc > Veteran-Orc/Orc-Tracker
Veteran-Orc > Ogre/Ogre-Chieftain/Troll

[Thanks Saiko]
There is a new questgiver, named Arian, who, after completing certain easy quest, will change people into demons. You need Officer's Patent for this, and trophies. He's different than usual conversions, because he converts in ratio 1:1. For example, 5 Runemages into 5 Archdemons, 40 Demonologists into 40 Executioners, or 40 Paladins into 40 Executioners or 20 Witchhunters into 20 Demons. That way you can get more leadership worth of troop than you had before (with executioners even much more) or less (as with Archdemons).

Runemage -> Archdemon
Archmage -> Demon
Witchhunter -> Demon
Paladin -> Executioner
Demonologist -> Executioner
Lake Fairy -> Demoness (484g/t)
Dryad -> Demoness (450g/t)

Griffin -> Royal Griffin
Thorn -> Royal Thorn

[thanks dratomic]
Repair Droid -> Guard Droid

[thanks to the new trainer app]
Werewolf -> Assassin
Sea Dog -> Assassin

Link to the trainer app thread
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17281

Just what the heck does this thing to? I got a fair amount of "trophies" but I stopped equipping it since I couldn't raise it past troop level 5? Even so, I couldn't "upgrade" or "train" my paladins? (level 4) even though they are human and neutral.

I hope this isn't like upgrading knights->paladins or something.

Does anyone else know the purpose of this or if it is any good?

By the way, is it me, or does the Dragon of Chaos suck big time?

You can still convert demons up the tree too such as executioner->archdemon, so there isn't that much of a super strong need to give up your Patent to the Demons.

However, it might be the only way to get a demoness or archdemon early on in the game (e.g. if they did not spawn).

[vmxa]

I think you pretty much got it right. No reason to wear the patent, unless you have nothing better for the slot.


Can't really speak to the dragon as I only dropped it on the map once at the end of a fight to see what it looked like.

[BB Shockwave]

It's a pretty nice idea. I mean, in my walkthrough of "Legend" I have not found a SINGLE Ancient Vampire for sale anywhere. With this training, you are ensured that certain units will always be in abundance - you just have to get their unupgradeded versions. Makes army building a lot easier. I already use it a lot to upgrade Swordsmen to Guardsmen.

But yeah, if you don't need the upgrades, you are better off using the Shark's Tooth as it gives +5% XP and gold, as opposed to this one's +3%

[Zechnophobe]

You can upgrade thorn hunters into Royal Thorns, very early in the game. I'd call that pretty useful.

Other than that though... I think it is pretty situational.

[Saiko Kila]

If you have much trophies but not so much money, then it is cheaper to train than to buy, at least with humans. It's cheaper to train guardsmen to paladins than to buy them, and even cheaper if you buy swordsmen, train them to guardsmen and finally paladins. Of course it costs trophies, not only monies, and I think that money is not a problem in that game, but someone may find a use for this. Plus, you have to get at least the same leadership of troops as you inntend to get, so any excess leadership (and accompanying money) is lost.

And I agree that one of the best uses is getting Royal Thorns.

[onepiece]

Just a question. How exactly is the amount of "trophies" you get from battles determined? And are there other ways to get "trophies"?

[versive]

Is there an upgrade path for a neutral unit to become a demonologist? There do not appear to be any in my save game scan.

[BB Shockwave]

That sucks. They should be made available as upgrades of the Mage, or the Necromancer.

I never do these save game scans, I like surprises. If you end up not finding any and really wanted to use them, you can still give yourself one using the cheat codes, and use Sacrifice to increase the numbers.

[DGDobrev]

The thing is, using cheat codes will get you a bad name in the final score :) This is why many people tend to scan their games, and for good reason in my opinion. With the greatly improved amount of items in the game now, the probability of getting at least some of the things that you want decreases by a great deal. For example, I've scanned a number of games (like 10) and the chances of getting twinkling boots or slippery cuirass for extra physical resistance is now like 1/3. Chances of getting an entire scale set for additional physical resistance is now like 1/6. Chances of getting 2 hands of necropolis gloves is less than 1/10 - I never saw 2 of those appearing in a game I scanned (maybe they removed this contingency?).

Not to mention that the chances of making a high intellect run now have declined rapidly, because the chances of getting 2 novice's dresses ranges from 1/4 to 1/7 - and the chances that those dresses will be backed up by something decent is less than 1/20 :)

[Saiko Kila]

Hm, I have obtained two novice dresses, but to think that I'd have to wear one of them on a boy...

[camelotcrusade]

I'd sure like to see a thread listing all of the upgrades possible with the officers patent. Early in the game it's hard to know which units you can upgrade without buying a bunch and seeing if you have enough to make them into something different.

If there's not an upgrade thread yet, maybe we should start one?

Things I know:

Thorn Warriors --> Royal Thorns. You need 50 thorns for one royal thorn
Priests --> Inquisitors or Witch Hunters. I didn't write down the exchanges.
Swordsman --> Guardsman. I haven't done this in a while but I think it was 2 for 1.

As you can see, my memory isn't very good, hence the need for a good writeup. :)

[ckdamascus]

I'd sure like to see a thread listing all of the upgrades possible with the officers patent. Early in the game it's hard to know which units you can upgrade without buying a bunch and seeing if you have enough to make them into something different.

If there's not an upgrade thread yet, maybe we should start one?

Things I know:

Thorn Warriors --> Royal Thorns. You need 50 thorns for one royal thorn
Priests --> Inquisitors or Witch Hunters. I didn't write down the exchanges.
Swordsman --> Guardsman. I haven't done this in a while but I think it was 2 for 1.

As you can see, my memory isn't very good, hence the need for a good writeup. :)

Griffin -> Royal Griffin

The ratio is purely based on leadership.

So if upgraded troop B requires 500 leadership, but original troop A requires 100 leadership, then the ratio is 5:1.

Supposedly guardsman turn into paladins too.

[terrypchan]

So how would this work for Guardsmen to Paladins then? Paladins are 220 leadership, while Guardsmen are only 50 leadership. The least common multiple of those two numbers is 1100. So to upgrade Guardsmen to Paladins, you would need to buy 22 Guardsmen to get 5 Paladins, all at once?

[ckdamascus]

So how would this work for Guardsmen to Paladins then? Paladins are 220 leadership, while Guardsmen are only 50 leadership. The least common multiple of those two numbers is 1100. So to upgrade Guardsmen to Paladins, you would need to buy 22 Guardsmen to get 5 Paladins, all at once?

Or just 5 guardsmen to make one paladin. I never tried that early on, but I would assume it would happily round down for you. :)

So for the least amount of leadership 'waste', 22 guardsmen would be the better option.

[camelotcrusade]

Has anybody managed to make Orc Trackers or Dwarf Engineers? I've been saving up for training higher level uints AND training units of another race in hopes that I can make these. But since I have no idea what is allowed to upgrade, I am making a gamble. I'm hoping I can upgrade orcs to orc trackers and maybe dwarfs or veteran dwarfs to Engineers.

[Hunkie]

From battle_akademy.lua:
Peasant > Footman/Bowman/Priest/Pirate/Robber
Footman > Guardman/Witch-Hunter
Guardman > Knight/Horseman/Paladin
Priest > Inquisitor/Witch-Hunter
Archmage > Necromancer/Demonologist/Rune-Mage
Pirate > Sea-Dog/Ghost-Pirate
Dwarf > Cannoneer/Foreman
Orc > Veteran-Orc/Orc-Tracker
Veteran-Orc > Ogre/Ogre-Chieftain/Troll

I've also found this from the script:
Hero_unit_count_tc_new = math.floor ((tc_army_leadership_1*Hero_unit_count_tc_old)/tc_army_leadership_2)

I think it can be translated to simple English like this:
NewUnit_Number = Round-down ( OldUnit_Leadership * OldUnit_Count / NewUnit_Leadership )

Priest's Leadership = 50/each
Inquisitor's Leadership = 100/each
You have 20 Priests.
When upgrading to Inquisitor, you'll get 50 * 20 / 100 = 10 Inquisitors.

Footman's Leadership = 35/each
Guardman's Leadership = 50/each
You have 25 Footman.
When upgrading to Guardman, you'll get 35 * 25 / 50 = 17.5 = 17 Guardmen.

[onepiece]

Thanks. Now at least if you don't find the units you like, you have more possibilities to get them (since their predecessor is almost sure to come out)

[Saiko Kila]

There is a new questgiver, named Arian, who, after completing certain easy quest, will change people into demons. You need Officer's Patent for this, and trophies. He's different than usual conversions, because he converts in ratio 1:1. For example, 5 Runemages into 5 Archdemons, 40 Demonologists into 40 Executioners, or 40 Paladins into 40 Executioners or 20 Witchhunters into 20 Demons. That way you can get more leadership worth of troop than you had before (with executioners even much more) or less (as with Archdemons).

[onepiece]

Now the only thing needed is a better description of how this work in-game.

Seriously Kataury needs to put a little more effort so we don't have to do threads for things like this. (Or is there an in-game description I'm not aware of?)

[BB Shockwave]

There is a new questgiver, named Arian, who, after completing certain easy quest, will change people into demons. You need Officer's Patent for this, and trophies. He's different than usual conversions, because he converts in ratio 1:1. For example, 5 Runemages into 5 Archdemons, 40 Demonologists into 40 Executioners, or 40 Paladins into 40 Executioners or 20 Witchhunters into 20 Demons. That way you can get more leadership worth of troop than you had before (with executioners even much more) or less (as with Archdemons).

Great, where can he be found?

Thanks for the info - I myself have run out of Swordsman to turn into Guardsman, so I'll be using the Peasant-Sworsman-Guardsman route. :)

Neat that you can turn Archmages into Demonologists, or Griffins into Royal Griffins, those units were usually very scarce.

The Demon idea is a great one for an early all-Demon army. I wish Lizardmen were also available earlier on, at least the Level 1-3 units. It wasn't until Shattera (Shetarra?) that I have first seen them in my first Walkthrough.

[Hunkie]

Arian can be found in Shettera. His house is north of Entrance to the Village. Though you should head to Hephaestus first to receive the quest "Deliver Arian's Order" before you can meet Arian.

[Swindley]

Just wanted to thank Hunkie for posting the upgrade list!
I've really wanted demonologists, but was unable to find any in either this game, or my previous one, so it's awesome info that I can upgrade them from arch mages! Will try this asap and have some fun with them + demons:D
________
Mexico City Hotels (http://mexicocityhotel.info)

[Jah]

Guardman > Knight/Horseman/Paladin

I've raised my trainable troop level to the maximum, but I still can't train guardsmen into anything. Is there something else you need to do in order to train them? Can someone confirm that guardsmen can indeed be trained?

And where, by the way, is this battle_akademy.lua file located? Can't find it anywhere...

[ckdamascus]

I've raised my trainable troop level to the maximum, but I still can't train guardsmen into anything. Is there something else you need to do in order to train them? Can someone confirm that guardsmen can indeed be trained?

And where, by the way, is this battle_akademy.lua file located? Can't find it anywhere...

I've noticed that the Officer's Patent seems to change its name as you go to different academies. Maybe it is possible you can only do the better upgrades after you have visited the later academies or ONLY at the later academies.

[Jah]

Looks like it simply requires a boatload of trophies to train them. After reducing my guardsmen stack to about 30, I was able to train them into horsemen, which reduced my trophies by about 5000. :o

[ckdamascus]

Looks like it simply requires a boatload of trophies to train them. After reducing my guardsmen stack to about 30, I was able to train them into horsemen, which reduced my trophies by about 5000. :o

Ouch. Thanks for the info. I will keep it in mind. Seems like this is more useful as a one-off filler or for an early advantage on certain maps.

Seems expensive!

I certainly need more orc chieftains (thinking about getting them into my army) but I did not realize I could use orc veterans for that purpose.

Also, usually trolls are in low supply, but this helps fix that problem.

The new strategies we can employ in March Of the Orcs is really incredible. They managed to do it again! ;0

[onepiece]

But I still don't know how much trophies you get per battle or ways to get more(or is it a fixed number?)

[Nike-it]

But I still don't know how much trophies you get per battle or ways to get more(or is it a fixed number?)

We do not the formula of trophies amount yet. I'll try to ask the devs.

[Jah]

Ouch. Thanks for the info. I will keep it in mind. Seems like this is more useful as a one-off filler or for an early advantage on certain maps.

Seems expensive!

Yeah - too expensive to be really worth it, IMO. Might be useful if you badly need a certain unit type that isn't available anywhere for some specific individual battle, but at least for me, the amount of trophies required is too high for using this method to regularly reinforce a stack. Not to mention that you can't have any other regalia item equipped if you want to keep accumulating trophies.

I think it would be better if you only needed trophies for raising the level of upgradable troops and opening other races for upgrading, and the upgrades themselves were paid entirely in gold. That way, you could keep the patent equipped until you've raised troop level to the maximum and "unlocked" the races you might want to upgrade (at least on Normal difficulty, it's taken me quite a bit of time to get that far, even with the patent equipped from day 1) and then use the regalia slot for something else.

[DrAtomic1]

Repair Droid -> Guard Droid

[Colbert30]

It would be nice if the patent itself could be upgraded each time you upgrade the level of troops you can train (for gold, or something). That way, the item scales and doesn´t feel much like a drag to have to wear it, especially later in the game where its relative power is so small compared to the alterantives.

Also, I agree that it´s poorly documented.

[Levesque]

Yes. It's seems rather annoyingly ''complicated'' to use this ''feature''. This, or I'm too stupid to use it. :confused:

I have more then 20000 trophies, and can only make 20 knights at a time. There was only 50 knights on all my ramdom world, so I'm trying to make some (since I like to teleport them at the beginning of a fight and then kill 3 stacks, before even starting to fight...) :grin:

But... I can make only around 20 knights at a time, and only for 2 times, and then I get the ''training unavailable'' line for my guardsman, even with 4 empty slots, 20000 trophies and over 1 million in the bank. :confused: I tried EVERYTHING. I've tried with swordsman and Guardsman, with 5, 10, 100 or 200. Nothing. ''Training unavalaible''.

Nothing is working.

I bought all the level upgrades and races upgrades before you ask it.

Is there a day-limit, time-limit, amount-limit, or anything like this? I can play for a couple of fights and sometimes, when trying again later, I can make another batch of 20, and sometimes not. It looks totally random to me.

I can't even upgrade my griffons to royal griffons. I empty all my slots except one, bring 5, 10, or 50 griffons, 20000 trophies, 1000000 dollars: ''training unavailable''. Huh?

[camelotcrusade]

Nothing. ''Training unavalaible''.

Is there a day-limit, time-limit, amount-limit, or anything like this? I can play for a couple of fights and sometimes, when trying again later, I can make another batch of 20, and sometimes not. It looks totally random to me.

I can't even upgrade my griffons to royal griffons. I empty all my slots except one, bring 5, 10, or 50 griffons, 20000 trophies, 1000000 dollars: ''training unavailable''. Huh?

I had a similar experience with orc trackers. I really wanted more of them to augment what was available at the initial docs, so I scrimped and saved to get enough regular orcs, trophies, and the ability to train both orcs and level 3 units. After all that, I could still not train an orc tracker.

However, many moons later (and, incidentally, after I had also visited the academy in Verona) I was able to create them using the same resources (the only 19 orcs I could find) and patent level I had before. By then it wasn't worth it since I could hold a lot more than I could make anyway.

So, I too would like some clarification (or other anecdotes, if we must figure this out for ourselves) on how and when this training thing works. Does discovering other academies matter? Do you need certain story events or quets to take place (for exapmle sometimes new troops appear based on quests you've completed)? Other triggers?

PS - also thanks to Hunkie for that upgrade list. If you find any for units other than humans please post them. It takes a lot of resources and inconvenience to even test if you can upgrade, so knowing up front is much better.

[ckdamascus]

There was only 50 knights on all my ramdom world, so I'm trying to make some (since I like to teleport them at the beginning of a fight and then kill 3 stacks, before even starting to fight...) :grin:


Sorry to hear about your plight. But, I am curious. What class are you? Are you playing Impossible and No Loss?

How do you kill 3 stacks initially before the fight has begun?

Do you mean you hit (and ideally kill), and the other enemies try to hit you and you counterattack to kill them?

(So are you a warrior class with counterattack?)

I realize it might be an expression, but I've been experimenting with heavy melee, so I wanted to know for sure. :)

Thanks!

[Levesque]

I'm a Pally right now. But with +1 Initiative, right at the beginning of a fight, I can teleport my Knights in the right spot to use the special sweeping attack on 3 stacks, and this before they can attack. So I usually kill 2 or 3 stacks at the beginning of the fight. With alot of +Morale +Def +Att on Knights, it's devastating. :)

I'm now using the Orc Veterans instead, with the special attack on 3 stacks.

[BB Shockwave]

Did anyone find out whether Witch Hunters or Assassins can be trained from some neutral unit - like Robbers, Marauders?

[ckdamascus]

Did anyone find out whether Witch Hunters or Assassins can be trained from some neutral unit - like Robbers, Marauders?

Seems like witch hunters can be made from footmen, per first post in the thread (after editing).

Is there a particular reason why it has to be from a neutral race?

I haven't seen anything about assassins. :(

[BB Shockwave]

They are called Swordsmen, I think. But thanks anyway. It's odd that a Neutral troop is trained from a Human...

Frankly, I found the system very helpfull. Even with trophy costs, it is much more profitable to recruit certain units this way, especially if you have no access to them otherwise.

[camelotcrusade]

Now I'm thinking they should add the descriptor "upgradeable" to any unit that can be upgraded via the trophy system. For bonus points, put how they upgrade in the hover text (though I realize that would be unique to each unit). But at least having a note that a unit is upgradeable would pique my curioisty and get me to play around with it.

It could say:

Upgradeable
This unit can be upgraded to a higher level unit at traininy academy if you meet the requirements.

If this would be on too many units and/or be annoying, maybe they could make a toggle to turn it on and off. Or maybe make a symbol like an upwards arrow inside a circle that is small but on the unit screen to indicate it can be upgraded.

[BB Shockwave]

I stopped using the whole patent, now that I have access to all troops that I need, I kinda find it useless. The Shark's Tooth that the first hireling gave me gives +5% XP and Gold, as opposed to +3%, so I switched it.

Why? Well, it cost about 700-800 Gold AND Trophies to upgrade 10 Guardsmen to 2 Paladins. And I had to fight a LOT of battles to accumulate this many.

So, I think, apart from the early game where you don't have access to some units, or in cases where certain units are simply not available anywhere, this system is usefull, but overall, I'd have been happier with a system more like the Necromancer in the Dwarven lands is offering.

[ckdamascus]

I stopped using the whole patent, now that I have access to all troops that I need, I kinda find it useless. The Shark's Tooth that the first hireling gave me gives +5% XP and Gold, as opposed to +3%, so I switched it.

Why? Well, it cost about 700-800 Gold AND Trophies to upgrade 10 Guardsmen to 2 Paladins. And I had to fight a LOT of battles to accumulate this many.

So, I think, apart from the early game where you don't have access to some units, or in cases where certain units are simply not available anywhere, this system is usefull, but overall, I'd have been happier with a system more like the Necromancer in the Dwarven lands is offering.

The idea is to use it for key, unique, hard to find units, not a "cheap" way to buy out highly available units. e.g. my game only spawned 28 Orc Veterans. I had to convert Orcs into Veterans.

Some games don't have a lot of demonologists, etc.

I believe the cost is related to the leadership ratio. So Orcs->Veterans isn't too bad at around 1.75 to 1. Cost me maybe 1000 trophies to convert 53 orcs to 30 orc veterans?

I usually get like 150 trophies per battle? I wonder what the rate of gaining trophies is.

I have about 15K trophies, after spending enough to upgrade to level 4 and get orcs. I'm about level 37 too and have used the trophy item since the beginning of the game sans 3 battles. :)

One guy hinted that if you fight with no-loss you get more trophies than without.

That said, yes, if you absolutely don't need new units, the patent is a pretty bad item to equip given the alternatives. If you do, it isn't THAT horrible at 3%/3%.a

[jake21]

Well in my mage impossible games demonologist did not spawn; but the conversion cost is 9000 trophies for 40 :( I need 70 for my mage's leadership, going to be a while .... :(

[BB Shockwave]

One guy hinted that if you fight with no-loss you get more trophies than without.


That's interesting- I have had like 70 battles so far, all no loss.

Well, now that I have access to all the units I need (found lots of Royal Griffins, Paladins and Archmages in Verona) I stopped using it.

[jake21]

I have something like 195 no loss battles in my current game but total trophies for entire game so far has been like 18,000 (I used 9000 to convert 40 arch mages into demo; and I hope to use the remaining trophies for another conversion - so the entire game of almost (but not quite) no loss battles just might get me enough trophies for ONE stack of demologisgts :(

That's interesting- I have had like 70 battles so far, all no loss.

Well, now that I have access to all the units I need (found lots of Royal Griffins, Paladins and Archmages in Verona) I stopped using it.

[BB Shockwave]

That's a bummer... you didn't use the save game scanner before starting to adventure? I always do that, since I decide what units I want to use well in advance.

[ckdamascus]

That's a bummer... you didn't use the save game scanner before starting to adventure? I always do that, since I decide what units I want to use well in advance.

Perhaps he was too optimistic about the conversion rates. I know I was haha.

[edit]
Trophies are most definitely based on how "hard" the enemy stack is relative to yours. Basically the leadership difference, but it seems to be a ratio too.

I did some solo Black Dragon action against the "Thresher", and accumulated 400 trophies. In another case, I got 800 trophies.

Thresher - 402 trophies
Rolf - 604 trophies
Rake Yavik (the Bolo "need 4 attack and 4 defense" arena - 802 trophies

Slapped back my full army, got like 100 trophies.

This is pretty interesting. :) I think it is a little unfair though since mages are better equipped to handle "Invincible" stacks.

[ckdamascus]

Added a few more conversions.

[ckdamascus]

I believe the formula for trophies per battle is at LEAST a function of
Used Leadership / Maximum Leadership

I have been using the same army size for a lot of battles as a mage, and I noticed my Trophy count keeps going up, even though my army size has rarely or has not really changed.

The enemy army size changes quite a bit too. While I think the enemy army size has something to do with it, and while soloing an enemy army helps, it seems to be increased if you have a higher leadership (or at least level).

[ckdamascus]

In patch 1.3.1

Actually, it appears the formula is simplified. It seems to be strongly based on your experience level.

This is great, since it means you will accumulate enough trophies for it to be useful.

My mage ended the game with nearly 128K+ trophies with a medium sized army. I don't think your army size matters anymore.

It also helps people who might get to certain maps and require certain units. Now you will have enough trophies to create the units you need.

[onepiece]

That's great. The only downside it that you will use the "same army" more often since it won't be that difficult to obtain the correct units anymore (not that there ever was a problem with the units I use)

[ckdamascus]

That's great. The only downside it that you will use the "same army" more often since it won't be that difficult to obtain the correct units anymore (not that there ever was a problem with the units I use)

Actually, I only wanted to use it to use an army that I would never normally use. :)

Most of the "units you hate / love but are forced to use" are actually "always spawn" units.

Demonologists are usually semi-rare (at least they are rare for me now... I used to get them all the time).

For whatever reason, whenever I spawn the Ogre's Set, I never have more than 5 Ogres in the entire game, so I want to use it to convert Veteran Orcs.

Although so far, I have not had as much success with the Ogre team (Warrior).

I've tried to get Assassins to work, but to no avail. They can actually be trained from Werewolf Elves.

Depending on my theme, I usually try not to use too many of the same units from game to game.

The only unit I use the most is the Rune Mage, but he always spawns.

I try to avoid using paladins (woot, beat an Impossible Mage game without using them at all, although I did incur losses in one battle) if I can, but it seems that if you rely on an army, you almost need them.