Map kiting in Crossworlds

[feloniousmonk]

I played AP on Hard with a Warrior, which turned out to get really easy in the second half of the game.

So I thought I'd try my hand at Orcs on the March with a Mage on Impossible. I've been unable to successfully kite a map guard, except the one on the coast in Rusty Anchor where I was able jump in my ship. The ones on land seem to have a boundary that they refuse to cross.

It could be that they changed the behavior for the mobs guarding maps, or that I am just not very good at kiting. Can a pro kiter verify whether this has changed?

[Infiltrator]

I played AP on Hard with a Warrior, which turned out to get really easy in the second half of the game.

So I thought I'd try my hand at Orcs on the March with a Mage on Impossible. I've been unable to successfully kite a map guard, except the one on the coast in Rusty Anchor where I was able jump in my ship. The ones on land seem to have a boundary that they refuse to cross.

It could be that they changed the behavior for the mobs guarding maps, or that I am just not very good at kiting. Can a pro kiter verify whether this has changed?

I must admit that Im glad if they disabled kiting, even though I used it extensively it felt like cheating :/

[feloniousmonk]

I spoke too soon. I was able to kite two maps on Verona... It was just the one on Rusty Island that wouldn't go beyond a certain point.

So, nevermind. :) In any case I'm not sure I want to go for a no-loss on Impossible, since kiting essentially just makes the game easier... (Which begs the question: Why play on Impossible?)

[Urbz]

I must admit that Im glad if they disabled kiting, even though I used it extensively it felt like cheating :/

Agreed, it has majorly spoiled the game at first for me personally. A shame its not actually fixed according to monk's last post but I guess i'll just try not to use it anymore myself then.

[langtu87]

I has tried KBAP at impossible mode for both mage, warrior and paladin. With map kitting, it is easy for lossless game. Now I will try with considering the mob which only move when hero very near it is immoblile. Map kitting make me thing like cheating

[Saiko Kila]

Is it possible to have impossible ;) with no loss without kiting at all? And I don't think it's so easy (at least without camera mods ;)) because guards can be nasty (like beholder), unless your'e lucky and get devils fishes or something.

[onepiece]

Some charts guards don't even move, you have to attack them so they're basically impossible to kite.
Although in the first island you can get many charts without kitting since they where almost standing there (without guardian). At least in my current walkthrough.

[ckdamascus]

In Armored Princess, I felt you had to either kite or hope you got a lucky item distribution to win in Impossible Mage No Loss.

Either I got lucky in Crossworlds, or they finally fixed the map/item random distributor.

The Rune Mage and improved Call Phoenix really help a lot, although I am only level 25 or so right now.

Also, the new orc armies do seem to be pretty darn powerful when used properly (and against me,... ugh).

I have not had to do any full kiting at all. I don't consider kiting cheating, just terribly frustrating and a waste of time.

[BB Shockwave]

I played AP on Hard with a Warrior, which turned out to get really easy in the second half of the game.

So I thought I'd try my hand at Orcs on the March with a Mage on Impossible. I've been unable to successfully kite a map guard, except the one on the coast in Rusty Anchor where I was able jump in my ship. The ones on land seem to have a boundary that they refuse to cross.

It could be that they changed the behavior for the mobs guarding maps, or that I am just not very good at kiting. Can a pro kiter verify whether this has changed?

I was able to easily kite the bear stack guarding the Rusty Anchor map on Bolo. But, others do not kite. It is random.

[DGDobrev]

I also noticed that kiting is much harder now. It is doable, but rather than doable in over 90% of the occasions in KBAP, not it's more like 50%, which gives the players much tougher time.

[Zechnophobe]

I also noticed that kiting is much harder now. It is doable, but rather than doable in over 90% of the occasions in KBAP, not it's more like 50%, which gives the players much tougher time.

I haven't really tried to 'kite' much of anything (other than just running around grabbing loot ;P). However I did notice one spot which was much harder to get through than normal: The guardian in the back of Verona that guards the girl you have to take back to Debir.

I normally sneak right past it, grab the women, loot the area, and leave without problems. This time I got past, but took like 12 tries to return again. Not sure why.

Oh, I also noticed that the Student's Belt, which gives class based runes every 8% of combats, no longer triggers if it is in your backpack. Sigh. Found two of them too.

[DGDobrev]

However, if the map placement is as it should be, the small kiting power run works wonders. All you need is to get a map of Verona on Scarlet and a map of Elon on the beach close to the pier, rather than the one close to the bridge.

In that case, you can do a power run: Debir (fish quest, get Scarlet map) - Scarlet (loot, get Verona map) - Verona (loot, get Elon map) - Elon (loot + get Sheterra map, get Moro as well) - Sheterra (fasmodey quest + loot) - Debir. It takes just over 2 days and equals at least level 12 (could be more if you luck out with a few XP shrines), a few black/red/green eggs, a lot of gold and possibly a few items that will make the start a lot easier.

You start with a dragon, built up skills, possibly the trap spell (use the green dragon in that case, because of his skill to pull up an enemy unit a hex in preferred direction, having it land on a trap this way) which you will easily level up against the weak enemies on Debir.

[onepiece]

But sometimes the map to Verona on Scarlet is guarded by a unit that doesn't move at all and that's annoying.

[ckdamascus]

I haven't really tried to 'kite' much of anything (other than just running around grabbing loot ;P). However I did notice one spot which was much harder to get through than normal: The guardian in the back of Verona that guards the girl you have to take back to Debir.

I normally sneak right past it, grab the women, loot the area, and leave without problems. This time I got past, but took like 12 tries to return again. Not sure why.

Oh, I also noticed that the Student's Belt, which gives class based runes every 8% of combats, no longer triggers if it is in your backpack. Sigh. Found two of them too.

Are you sure? I am fairly certain it triggered after I unequipped it, but it seems like the rate of runes it drops is a lot lower than 8%....

[Zechnophobe]

Are you sure? I am fairly certain it triggered after I unequipped it, but it seems like the rate of runes it drops is a lot lower than 8%....

Well I've done at least a dozen battles now, with two in my inventory. That should give me pretty good odds on getting at least one ( 86.4% ), but there is still a possibility I just got unlucky, so no, I am not 'sure'. If it gets down to the .99% range it starts getting hard to ignore.

[ckdamascus]

Well I've done at least a dozen battles now, with two in my inventory. That should give me pretty good odds on getting at least one ( 86.4% ), but there is still a possibility I just got unlucky, so no, I am not 'sure'. If it gets down to the .99% range it starts getting hard to ignore.

Probability is a funny thing. Even if the math indicates otherwise.

I think I have gotten maybe 3 of them, and I have done at least 50+ battles (since I got the mind rune banner released around the same time).

Twice when equipped, once when not equipped.

It does seem like the odds are lower than in AP though but who knows. Haha.

[edit]
Ah, been a while since I did probability.

Your odds of getting at least one rune should be even higher, at 87.6% (unless the calculator i'm using is incorrect).

That is assuming that the game intelligently rolls for both belts (would be pretty messed up if it didn't).

[versive]

Any verdict on this? Do you need to be wearing the belt in Crossworlds to obtain the rune benefit?

[ckdamascus]

Any verdict on this? Do you need to be wearing the belt in Crossworlds to obtain the rune benefit?

I believe Zechnophobe is correct. I proceeded to nearly finish the game, and never got another rune from the belt.

You probably have to be wearing it now.

[BB Shockwave]

I haven't really tried to 'kite' much of anything (other than just running around grabbing loot ;P). However I did notice one spot which was much harder to get through than normal: The guardian in the back of Verona that guards the girl you have to take back to Debir.

I normally sneak right past it, grab the women, loot the area, and leave without problems. This time I got past, but took like 12 tries to return again. Not sure why.

Oh, I also noticed that the Student's Belt, which gives class based runes every 8% of combats, no longer triggers if it is in your backpack. Sigh. Found two of them too.

It depends, I think, on what unit that is. In my game, it was represented on the adventure map by Royal Griffins, and they only moved 1 square - but due to the animation, the griffin just got up to fly and then landed again in the same place. I bet if it was a walker, it'd have moved.

(Getting back from that place was still a pain, though, because the way back was blocked by the Dragonfly hero with a Lethal army... took me several tries until I finally got round him on the road to Magnat's castle)

[ckdamascus]

It depends, I think, on what unit that is. In my game, it was represented on the adventure map by Royal Griffins, and they only moved 1 square - but due to the animation, the griffin just got up to fly and then landed again in the same place. I bet if it was a walker, it'd have moved.

(Getting back from that place was still a pain, though, because the way back was blocked by the Dragonfly hero with a Lethal army... took me several tries until I finally got round him on the road to Magnat's castle)

It is actually a pathing issue. Slowly step more to the right (behind it) and you can easily walk past it.

If you don't do that proper right-step first, your heroine paths right into the butt of the enemy even though it is somewhat easy to sneak past it going in.

[travelingoz]

Hi all! Long time no see! Been busy lately but finally managed to get some serious CW time in over the last 2 weeks.

Regarding the kiting, i haven't noticed any difference at all between CW and AP. All map guards are kiteable except the Rusty Anchor Cemetary. That includes Elon map on Verona if it spawns near the bridge and Verona map on Bolo on top of the hill. (If Verona map doesn't spawn on Scarlet). However there is one normal Guard in the River of Memory that won't move now. It's at the small cemetery next to where the Sheterra map sometimes spawns.

If anyone is having problems, let me know and i'll offer any assistance i can.

@Onepiece; Which unit doesn't move on Scarlet? Can you post a save for me and i'll give it a try? I haven't found any that won't move.

P.S. If someone can tell me how to take sceenshots, i would be happy to post some as proof/help to others.

[BB Shockwave]

I'm not sure how you got some guardians to move. There are a LOT that only move when you go straight into their face, and then the battle commences immediatly, you have no time to run away. The Knight next to the Mage Tower in Verona, the Griffins in the griffin hatchery (also Verona), the Assassin stack guarding the map on Rusty Anchor in the cemetery, and there are many more.

The few that were kiteable were pretty hard to do, as they move 1 square then immediatly stop, and often go back instead of following you further.

[ckdamascus]

I'm not sure how you got some guardians to move. There are a LOT that only move when you go straight into their face, and then the battle commences immediatly, you have no time to run away. The Knight next to the Mage Tower in Verona, the Griffins in the griffin hatchery (also Verona), the Assassin stack guarding the map on Rusty Anchor in the cemetery, and there are many more.

The few that were kiteable were pretty hard to do, as they move 1 square then immediatly stop, and often go back instead of following you further.

It is almost a Dark Science to do. I'm able to do it fairly well, but it is more like you have to play "chicken" with them.

You BARELY reach the point where they will chase, and you have a tiny gap of time before you run away.

If you run too fast, they won't chase far. So you have to barely run away, so as to bait them to follow.

You then slow-walk away, to ensure they follow. Move too fast, they will stand there confused, and it is semi-hard to get them to re-lock on to you to chase again.

Move too slow, and battle ensues. :)

[BB Shockwave]

Trouble is, there is a sizeable time needed for Amelie to turn around, and by that time, the enemy catches up to you. It is easier to do when you can fly, I grant that...

[loreangelicus]

You mock-attack them using a 45+-degree angle and never straight on because, as you've noted, Amelie turns too slow.

[travelingoz]

In some places, due to the terrain (Verona near the bridge or Elon between the 2 castles for example), you have no choice but to approach straight on. However, our princess is quite the equestrian and it is doable! ;)

BTW: What are the hot keys for taking screen shots? I'd like to post a few.

[Zechnophobe]

So, you questioned my math, for that I must defend my honour!

Odds of you NOT getting a rune, assuming two separate rolls for each:

Per battle = 23/25 * 23/25 = .8464 (84.6%)
For 12 battles = .8464^12 = .1351.. (13.5%)
Odds of getting at least one rune = 1-.1351 = 86.4%

You take the inverse, since the odds of something happening + the odds of it NOT happening = 1.



[edit]
Ah, been a while since I did probability.

Your odds of getting at least one rune should be even higher, at 87.6% (unless the calculator i'm using is incorrect).

That is assuming that the game intelligently rolls for both belts (would be pretty messed up if it didn't).

[ckdamascus]

So, you questioned my math, for that I must defend my honour!

Odds of you NOT getting a rune, assuming two separate rolls for each:

Per battle = 23/25 * 23/25 = .8464 (84.6%)
For 12 battles = .8464^12 = .1351.. (13.5%)
Odds of getting at least one rune = 1-.1351 = 86.4%

You take the inverse, since the odds of something happening + the odds of it NOT happening = 1.

Haha. :)

I thought it was 8% chance per roll?

And each roll is independent of each other and you have two rolls, wouldn't it be 8% + 8% = 16% of success?

Or, 84% chance of not seeing any action.

I agree with your math, just not sure how you came up with 23/25?

[Elwin]

Havent notice any changes in kitting difficulty really.

[namad]

kiting map guards makes the game non-linear.... this is good!

if you had to take the guards out always in order of diffuculty and were playing on impossible the game might feel linear... (i'm kind of a king's bounty noob who plays on normal though)

[OGKingsBounty92]

I must admit that Im glad if they disabled kiting, even though I used it extensively it felt like cheating :/

Here's an INCREDIBLE idea...how about NOT DOING it? Unless there's an army of .308 rifles pointed at your head telling you to do that "kit" thing or else. I don't have the "force you to kit" patch.

[Darkeonz]

I like kiting personally. I can't imagine making it through on impossible without kiting at all. You kited in the original king's bounty as well. For me it's one of the joys of the game. There's several that you can't kite, which i think is awesome. Certain maps requires that you fight.

Please keep kiting :-D

[DGDobrev]

Part of King's Bounty's charm is the ability to MOLD the game as you wish it to be. The kiting is just one of its secrets - and that is a simple (!) option left for us since more than 15 years ago when the original King's Bounty was lauched by Jon van Caneghem's company.

[Darkeonz]

I just realized that you are actually able to kite more maps then I originally thought. I've played through crossworlds maybe 10 times but never realized that it was possible to kite more then the first 3-4 maps.

I loved getting the first 3-4 islands and then grinding those 3-4 islands the best way I could and eventually get good enough to beat the enemy and get a map for Verona.

Now that I see that most maps can be kited, It kind of changes my mind on kiting. Or shifts it a little bit. I don't think all maps should be kiteable, but I love that you can kite other things on islands and get them. It's needed when you play on impossible IMO. I can't imagine beating impossible without kiting

[kalil]

I must be missing something - I'm completely unable to kite most of the maps. I was able to get to Bolo and Scarlet, but all the maps there are guarded by enemies that refuse to budge until I'm in instant-attack range. It's very frustrating... I've hit a point of not being strong enough to continue no-loss, and I'm getting very frustrated.

[Purdypog]

I must be missing something - I'm completely unable to kite most of the maps. I was able to get to Bolo and Scarlet, but all the maps there are guarded by enemies that refuse to budge until I'm in instant-attack range. It's very frustrating... I've hit a point of not being strong enough to continue no-loss, and I'm getting very frustrated.
-----

Well Kalil, kiting is a bit of an artform and takes practice. I know that some people don't like to do it for gameplay reasons - that's a perfectly reasonable approach IMHO. I actually like to do it and look forward to it on every new character I start. You can kite almost every map guard unless it is "stuck". I remember when I started in Crossworlds I was a bit frustrated that it took so long for a successful kite with some map guarding mobs but now (after much practice) it is easy as pie.

For practice remember to save literally every "click" and go back to a good place if you get the ?????? or if your character gets in a unwinnable jam. Watch the patterns of the patrolling mobs (if any), and learn the agro radius of the various types of guard mobs. Yes, the type of guard mob changes the kiting pattern.

[Elwin]

YEah cyclops are one of the easies to kite

[Artoria]

Hello everyone!

I know that this game is pretty old now but I just got my hands on Crossworlds.
Back when AP came out I played a lot ( Mainly on impossible/Warrior )
But in crossworlds I don't think I'll be able to complete a Mage/Impossible/Lossless playtrough unless I can go to at least Rusty Anchor/Verona to get a quick boost to money/leadership.
In my current game I could only get the Maps to Scarlet/Bolo.
I already gathered all resources on these Island that do NOT need map kiting and I'm still pretty weak. ( Even got the Amulet from Bolo underground )
I know that I could just start killing enemies on Debir and hoping that I'll have enough money/leadership to buy a runemage/cyclops to clear Bolo but if I could just get to Rusty/Verona without fighting then I'm sure I'd have enough resources to get started.

So I'd like to ask for help in kiting maps on Scarlet/Bolo. I read about kiting - some of you even said that kiting is easy once you know how - on these forums but to me it seems that in my game EVERY map guard is stuck. I'll post a screenshot of one of the map guards.
I'm in a position where I can't get closer to the enemy because if I do then it will auto-attack.
So are map guards stuck or I do something wrong?

[Elwin]

This one is not stuck, keep trying

[Artoria]

This one is not stuck, keep trying

I think it's true that the first one is really hard... after that... well... it's still hard.
Since I posted I managed to snatch 3 maps. The one on my first screenshot was Verona and after that on Verona I managed to get maps for Tekron and Eion.
See the screenshots... maybe I was just lucky to get Royal Griffins and Bowmen as mapguards but right now I'm really happy to have been able to get this far without a single battle.

I think that the hardest part in kiting a map is getting the guard's attention and getting it to move a little bit... after that I had no trouble at all... for now.
I'm sure there will be much harder map guards, but right now I look at this as a success.

I would like to thank everyone on this forum for all the tips they gave since it was with their help that I managed to get this far!

[jaylo101]

I don't know why you guys bother with all the frustration & tediousness that comes with trying to kite when you can simply add some or all of the map items below to the hero's items section in hero.txt, so the continents will be revealed at the start of any game.
As a bonus previous map scrolls will now all be wanderer scrolls.

om_bolo=1
om_rehau=1
om_verona=1
om_uzala=1
om_umkas=1
om_tekron=1
om_shettera=1
om_rusty_anchor=1
om_elona=1
om_nameless=1
om_red_wind=1
om_dersu=1
om_montero=1

[Darkeonz]

I think it's true that the first one is really hard... after that... well... it's still hard.
Since I posted I managed to snatch 3 maps. The one on my first screenshot was Verona and after that on Verona I managed to get maps for Tekron and Eion.
See the screenshots... maybe I was just lucky to get Royal Griffins and Bowmen as mapguards but right now I'm really happy to have been able to get this far without a single battle.

I think that the hardest part in kiting a map is getting the guard's attention and getting it to move a little bit... after that I had no trouble at all... for now.
I'm sure there will be much harder map guards, but right now I look at this as a success.

I would like to thank everyone on this forum for all the tips they gave since it was with their help that I managed to get this far!

Yeah for the longest time I didn't think you could kite any of those maps where the guard was "stuck" or whatever you wanna call it. Almost all of them can be kited, but it does usually take me like 30 attempts lol. I kind of wish those couldn't be kited to be honest. I mean I can run around and become a pretty high level before even starting on island nr 1