Question on game physics: BULLET SPEED ( simulator )

[vdomini]

Hello boppers!

I would like to ask a question to you, about bullet speed in this game:

Do you think that phisical game engine make the bullet speed affected by the plane speed as well?

( Example: Lets say my machine gun bullet speed is X. I dive, flying at 600 km/h and i shoot. Will my bullet speed be X + 600? Or, i climb at 90° angle, shooting almost at 80 km/h. Will my bullet speed will be X + 80? )

I am not a good "boom and zoomer" so i am not sure how to lead a target from far away,
I am not sure about it, what do you think?

thanks for reading!

[winny]

What happens is the bullets very quickly slow down due to the airflow. There were some cases in WW2 where aircaft shot themselves
down when firing at a target and diving into thier own rounds.

It also happened to a Grumman F-11F Tiger. 11 seconds after it fired a burst the flightpaths met and down it went.

[dkwookie]

That's very interesting Winny, I didn't know that had occurred. I wonder if it was tracers that caused that as I presume they travel slower

[Davedog74]

the randomness of war,i see a tv show about ww1,there were allied bodys found around the edge of an allied fired shell crater in enemy territory,they had blown the whistle after the barrage stopped but 30 seconds later(could be longer)all the mud and crap came down

[McQ59]

Good question vdomini... I think it must be a question about output speed. The moment the projectile has left the barrel, it is 'out there on it's own' dealing with gravity and friction - and the plane, if fast enough, is capable of catching up with it's own projectile. The analogi is ex. firing from a car or a train. The projectile does not carry with it the speed of the vehicle. I think... But to be honest, it's a while ago since I f*#d up my exams in physics...
Do anyone know what the output speed was for ex. a 20 mm?

[winny]

Here's a link to the F11 shooting itself down.

http://www.aerofiles.com/tiger-tail.html

[winny]

Good question vdomini... I think it must be a question about output speed. The moment the projectile has left the barrel, it is 'out there on it's own' dealing with gravity and friction - and the plane, if fast enough, is capable of catching up with it's own projectile. The analogi is ex. firing from a car or a train. The projectile does not carry with it the speed of the vehicle. I think... But to be honest, it's a while ago since I f*#d up my exams in physics...
Do anyone know what the output speed was for ex. a 20 mm?

Muzzle Velocity for a 20mm is between 500 and 800 m/sec for guns of that era. Hispano is about 750 m/sec. 400mph is 179 m/sec.

[McQ59]

Thanks winny. Take it that it would be a hell of a dive for a Spit to catch up...

[winny]

Thanks winny. Take it that it would be a hell of a dive for a Spit to catch up...

I'm guessing that the drop off in speed of the rounds must happen quickly, balistics give me a headache.

A Spitfire broke the sound barrier in a dive once.. I think it also fell apart.

[vdomini]

Thank you for all your kind answering, my question was concerned more about the game physics than real. Still wondering if initial shooting speed is involved :cool: ( In real bullets travel very fast, it's impossible for a ww2 propelled plane to catch their own bullets, even during dives i think )

[SEE]

Fire a high velocity bullet horizontal to the ground and drop one at the same time from the same height - both will hit the ground at exactly the same time. The force of gravity acts equally on both irrespective of the horzontal force use to fire the high velocity round.

[Robotic Pope]

Its all meaningless in BoP anyway because the bullets really arn't affected by gravity or drag at all. They just fly off at muzzle velocity and into infinity if they don't hit anything. Thats one reason why in BoP its so easy to shoot down someone who is in a climb. And why with unlimited ammo you can shoot down planes with the G-6 nose cannon from outside the range of a modern short range IR missile.

[vdomini]

Its all meaningless in BoP anyway because the bullets really arn't affected by gravity or drag at all. They just fly off at muzzle velocity and into infinity if they don't hit anything. Thats one reason why in BoP its so easy to shoot down someone who is in a climb. And why with unlimited ammo you can shoot down planes with the G-6 nose cannon from outside the range of a modern short range IR missile.

thanks! :) Probably you're right, I think computing physics and ballistic for every bullet shoot by a plane will drop game performance too much.

[winny]

Yeah, the bullets in bop are like lasers. It's pretty annoying getting picked off from about 2500 yds away.

[vdomini]

Yeah, the bullets in bop are like lasers. It's pretty annoying getting picked off from about 2500 yds away.


Hosting a limited ammo game will reduce this stess a little ;)

[vdomini]

Hello!

I have another question for you about bullet speed.

Since now i have clear that plane speed will not affect the initial bullet speed, but, do you think different bullet speed from weapon to weapon have been implemented in the game ( muzzle shell velocity ) ?

Example... :

Ns37, 37mm, mounted over Yak9, anti tank cannon , muzzle shell velocity around 900 m/s

Mk108 on german plane, muzzle shell velocity of 505 m/s

Faster bullet need a different target leading compared to slower one.... so in theory leading a shot from a yak9 should be easier...

[bobbysocks]

in real life a faster bullet needs less lead....which is a calculated intersection point where the speed and direction of the target and speed and direction of the bullet meet. you would have to factor in the convergence point of wing mounted MGs on ac like the mustang, 47, etc. now in this game, i dont think (my opinion only) they got that far into the physics except to calculate convergence. i have heard in the PC versions ( Il2 and 1946). you can set these points yourself.

[JOED70]

all weapons have an effective range.
For example the C-7 Damico 5.56 (AR-15 Varient) had an effective range of 300yrd The FNC-1 7.62mm effective range of 600yrd due to larger round carrys more kinetic energy. So larger caliber weapons should pack more punch and also at greater distances, I dont think they would have to model the decreasing velocity of each round , just modify the damage by a factor of range in the sim engine.

I have a question though what is the effective ranges of the weapons in the game?

I have also noticed that deflection shots with G6 Cannon at 1200yards seem to be very effective and easy to get My guess would be that the round should be pretty much out of steam by that range

[winny]

The in game bullets don't slow down they either hit you or disappear.. You can see this in sim especially. When you see tracer from a distance it just fans out a little and then ends. And it's deadly at long range.

Test it.. get three planes in a row all firing and get someone to have a look from above and see if they all end at the same length.. Do it over water so the tracer is easily seen.

[QBlackDeathQ]

Thank you for all your kind answering, my question was concerned more about the game physics than real. Still wondering if initial shooting speed is involved :cool: ( In real bullets travel very fast, it's impossible for a ww2 propelled plane to catch their own bullets, even during dives i think )

dude i will have you answer your own Q. ok ok ok land ok ok ok stop ok ok ok shoot! do yo move when shooting? well shit there you go! :-x

[vdomini]

dude i will have you answer your own Q. ok ok ok land ok ok ok stop ok ok ok shoot! do yo move when shooting? well shit there you go! :-x

LOL

i did what you said and.. the plane was going backward due recoil!
But, what does it mean? initial speed is taken in count or plane speed just reduced a little while shooting?