Turns

[TremblingBlue]

I thought I was quite good at staying on people's tails. But a few times now I've had people in the same aircraft completely out-turning me.

What am I doing wrong? I break into the turn and throttle up out of the turn...yet the plane I STARTED chasing is now on my back-side. It's extremely frustrating as I have no way I can think of to perfect it.

[edal86]

Depends on:

1. are you using controller or stick?

2. are you on arcade, realistic, or sim (check flaps)

3. if identical planes, then, check and adjust your sensibility settings (check the sticky thread "A guide to the Planes" for sensibility setting tips)

[bobbysocks]

remember the laws of physics. the faster you go....hence the more kinetic energy... the larger the "circle" or circumference. some times chopping throttle...and other tricks can give you the edge. but the biggest thing is PM the guy... most will give you an honest answer...

[flynlion]

remember the laws of physics. the faster you go....hence the more kinetic energy... the larger the "circle" or circumference. some times chopping throttle...and other tricks can give you the edge. but the biggest thing is PM the guy... most will give you an honest answer...

This is one case where the video game "sim" world is very different from real life. Pilots in the real world almost never reduce power while in combat. Instead, they convert kinetic energy into potential energy by pulling into a climb and converting speed into altitude. The trick is to do this while keeping your opponent in sight, something that is very difficult given the limited field of view with a video game.

[bobbysocks]

This is one case where the video game "sim" world is very different from real life. Pilots in the real world almost never reduce power while in combat. Instead, they convert kinetic energy into potential energy by pulling into a climb and converting speed into altitude. The trick is to do this while keeping your opponent in sight, something that is very difficult given the limited field of view with a video game.

depends on the type of ac and dogfight. in my research i have read a ton of pilot reports where they were in a turning battle and riding the edge of a stall ( after chopping throttle and dropping flaps) to get to the inside of their opponent.

[flynlion]

depends on the type of ac and dogfight. in my research i have read a ton of pilot reports where they were in a turning battle and riding the edge of a stall ( after chopping throttle and dropping flaps) to get to the inside of their opponent.

True, but this situation is more the exception than the rule. If you miss the shot or the enemy's wingman shows up, then "chopped throttle and flaps out" is a very bad place to be. Converting excess speed to altitude allows you fight at full power, clean configuration and with an altitude advantage.

[bobbysocks]

its far from the exception. a vast majority of kills were diving onto someone's unsuspecting tail or the target of opportunity zooming past your nose giving you a great deflection shot or the chance to climb on his tail. but when the battle lasted past the point of surprise it usually went either horizontal or vertical.
most of the time full throttle or going through the wire (WEP) was used was to bug out or when the ea broke for the deck ( which was common practice ).
plus it all depended on where you were....eastern Europe and western airwars were vastly different. and the type of the plane you were flying dictated tactics. german pilots were told not to get into a turning battle with most soviet ac.... so the luftberry circle they employed in the west was of little us to them over russia. hence it was somewhat common.

here's 2 pages of encounter reports of 51 and 47 pilots....

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/combat-reports.html

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-encounter-reports.html

[flynlion]

Good stuff there Bobbysox. I read about a dozen of your reports and still maintain that adding drag and reducing power is more likely to get you into trouble than out of it. Not saying it didn't happen, just that it's more the exception than the rule.

This is starting to remind me of an earlier thread LoL:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=12076&highlight=combat+flaps

[bobbysocks]

this game is great. probably the best consul fighter game invented. i do love the old chuck yeager air combat ... it had restrictions and aircraft tendencies that the developers of BoP didnt look at. they werent air combat vets. i knew a lot of the flyers of the 357th and heard their stories first hand across the table. all these guys had "tricks" to close on someone's tail or to get out of dodge fast. one guy's story was he was in a steep turning battle and couldnt just get that crucial few degrees...so he slapped the elevator trim to full and it brought the ea right on the pipper. he squeezed the trigger and smoked him. Bud Anderson talked about turning battles...but i yanked this from a post on another forum where they were talking about the recoil of the 50 cals dropping the airspeed by 40 to 60 mph...which it cant. but it can shave off enough at the right circumstance to throw a pony into a stall/spin. here is what bud had to say ( and he was in a B model....with 4 ma duces):

I close to within 250 yards of the nearest Messerschmitt--dead astern, 6 o'clock, no maneuvering, no nothing--and squeeze the trigger on the control stick between my knees gently. Bambambambambam! The sound is loud in the cockpit in spite of the wind shriek and engine roar. And the vibration of the Mustang's four. 50-caliber machine guns, two in each wing, weighing 60-odd pounds apiece, is pronounced. In fact, you had to be careful in dogfights when you were turning hard, flying on the brink of a stall, because the buck of the guns was enough to peel off a few critical miles per hour and make the Mustang simply stop flying. That could prove downright embarrassing."
bud anderson from his book "He Was Someone Who Was Trying to Kill Me, Is All"

[vdomini]

I thought I was quite good at staying on people's tails. But a few times now I've had people in the same aircraft completely out-turning me.

What am I doing wrong? I break into the turn and throttle up out of the turn...yet the plane I STARTED chasing is now on my back-side. It's extremely frustrating as I have no way I can think of to perfect it.


I can suggest you to check what edal86 told to you but also you initial speed when you enter turning.

If you are to slow you might start in WEP and then cut ...