Saitek AV8R - How well does it work with BoP 360?

[kronovan]

My 1st post here and I'm new to the game having just bought 360 BoP on the weekend. I did a search here on the AV8R stick and found a number of threads where it seemed to be suggested that there's problems/issues with it and the 360 version of BoP. However, in the threads I found there wasn't any mention of the actual problems/issues? So a few questions I have about the stick:

- I saw mention of using nylon ties to hold the main stick further down in it's base - so on that note is there an issue -i.e. centering spring related- with BoP that this resolves.
- I also saw mention of no wheel brakes on the stick, not a big problem as they aren't there for the 360 gamepad either and I've managing to land, but is there really no way to enable this on the AV8R?
- I also came across a rewiring thread where part of the reason for considering it was that the view panning wasn't enabled for the top stick hat switch, is this actually the case?
- Are there any other issues that I haven't come across that I should be aware of?

I currently have a PC that runs IL-2 1946 well and has a HOTAS complete with throttle quadrant and pedals, so I'm leaning towards the the PC version of WoP if I want to play with the Sim level of difficulty. However, my son would prefer to play it on the 360, which is why I'm considering the AV8R - he also has Blazing Angels 2 and Ace Combat 6. Any answers you can provide to the above questions would help me make a decision and would be greatly appreciated.

[sloppy_clock]

My 1st post here and I'm new to the game having just bought 360 BoP on the weekend. I did a search here on the AV8R stick and found a number of threads where it seemed to be suggested that there's problems/issues with it and the 360 version of BoP. However, in the threads I found there wasn't any mention of the actual problems/issues? So a few questions I have about the stick:

- I saw mention of using nylon ties to hold the main stick further down in it's base - so on that note is there an issue -i.e. centering spring related- with BoP that this resolves.
- I also saw mention of no wheel brakes on the stick, not a big problem as they aren't there for the 360 gamepad either and I've managing to land, but is there really no way to enable this on the AV8R?
- I also came across a rewiring thread where part of the reason for considering it was that the view panning wasn't enabled for the top stick hat switch, is this actually the case?
- Are there any other issues that I haven't come across that I should be aware of?

I currently have a PC that runs IL-2 1946 well and has a HOTAS complete with throttle quadrant and pedals, so I'm leaning towards the the PC version of WoP if I want to play with the Sim level of difficulty. However, my son would prefer to play it on the 360, which is why I'm considering the AV8R - he also has Blazing Angels 2 and Ace Combat 6. Any answers you can provide to the above questions would help me make a decision and would be greatly appreciated.

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that although I don't have the AV8R I use the pad and there are breaks you an use on that, pull back on the throttle once you touchdown.

[kronovan]

Many thanks for the reply Sloppy Clock. I had discovered the pull back on the throttle feature, but I'm used to the toe breaks on my PC CH Pedals, so I was looking for something else - hehe wishful thinking. ;) I'm wondering if using a joystick -something I've never done on the 360- allows for other options?What I wish the game had is voice input for the 5 wingmen commands and the d-pad left for full 8 point view panning. Which would have in turn left the click down on either thumbstick as wheel brake(s). People might dismiss the idea of voice commands on the 360, but I usually just direct such nay-sayers to Tom Clancy's End War as an example of how it can be done to excellent effect.

[bobbysocks]

hello kronovan, welcome. i have an AV8R. others have had different problems which i never experienced. my main problem has been with the rudder feature. it isnt strong enough. you twist the pistol grip in either direction to actuate the rudder...if you werent going to play much it would be a decent stick. i would spend the extra and get the saitek cyborg fly 9... a much better stick. as for the brakes...pulling all the way back on the stick has worked for me...shooting your guns once you have all your wheels down will slow you as well.

[kronovan]

Thanks for the reply Bobbysocks. No doubt you've maxed the sensitivity for the rudder axis in game, but it's still a surprise to me that it's too unresponsive, if only because IMO it's far too sensitive with the 360 controller. What about view panning, is it true it's not available with the sticks top hat switch / d-pad?

unfortunately none of my local game stores carry the Cyborg 9 F.L.Y and Saitek N.A. doesn't ship to Canadian addresses. As well, the $100 US price tag is really more than I'm willing to pay for a 360 flightstick - my CH Products 568 stick didn't cost much more than that and I'd be surprised if the Cyborg 9 was anywhere close to its quality.

[bobbysocks]

check out SEE's review of the cyborg fly 9. has pics and everything. there is no adjustment for sensitivity for the rudder...elevator and ailerons only. it isnt nearly adjustable as it is on PC from what i gather. you dont set you convergence for line of fire, etc. you only have combat flaps in sim mode. its not that it isnt responsive ( rudder) just that in the heat of battle you might have a tendency to crank it a little more to make the shot or get out of trouble. Xbox sticks...there arent many and they seem to carry a heftier tag ( almost twice) than you can get a PC one for. panning is ok...the top hat on both are right at the top of the pistol grip...the fly 9 is easier to get to. you should have just about everything on the stick that you have with the control pad...but i have never tried BoP with a pad. i only bought the game when i found a stick ( AV8R) was available. in all honesty..i liked the AV8R...i just manhandle it too much and end up fixing it.

[kronovan]

Having a workable view hat might just clinch the deal for me, as that's what's keeping me from playing with simulation difficulty. I've found rudder sensitivity to be fairly lacking in just about every PC stick I've owned that's had a twist rudder. Even my Logitech FF stick -which is more than decent for everything else- doesn't really have an adequate twist rudder; led me to originally get rudder pedals. I hear what you're saying between the 360 and PC - I've gone through the same thing with racing wheel setups. MS really needs to include a system utility with the 360 that lets you config the axis for input devices. Some of my local game stores will give you 30 days to reconsider a 360 peripheral, so I'm thinking the AV8R might be worth a try. ;)

[Edit] Just so you know, you don't have get very usable panning with the 360 gamepad. It's accessed by pressing down the right thumbstick which is also used for throttle and rudder control - hence my 'usable' comment.

[hurricane]

i just happen to have a modified av8r for sale cheap.i took 2 broken ones and wired them together.i just need to glue them.its for the dogfight train of death.you shoot the guy behind you with the left stick and the one in front of you with the one on the right.

[bobbysocks]

Having a workable view hat might just clinch the deal for me, as that's what's keeping me from playing with simulation difficulty. I've found rudder sensitivity to be fairly lacking in just about every PC stick I've owned that's had a twist rudder. Even my Logitech FF stick -which is more than decent for everything else- doesn't really have an adequate twist rudder; led me to originally get rudder pedals. I hear what you're saying between the 360 and PC - I've gone through the same thing with racing wheel setups. MS really needs to include a system utility with the 360 that lets you config the axis for input devices. Some of my local game stores will give you 30 days to reconsider a 360 peripheral, so I'm thinking the AV8R might be worth a try. ;)

[Edit] Just so you know, you don't have get very usable panning with the 360 gamepad. It's accessed by pressing down the right thumbstick which is also used for throttle and rudder control - hence my 'usable' comment.


panning is done 2 ways....the tophat on top of the pistol grip will give you cockpit rotation view....and the d-pad will give you 3rd person pov...front, back, sides. dont get me wrong the rudder on the AV8R works well...just a little stiff and can break if you horse it hard. rudder on the fly 9 is a dream. hense i am learning how to fly all over again because i am over controlling. if you can get a 30 trial heck why not! check it out. plus madcatz seems very eager to help...so keep the receipt and stuff..just in case. happy flying.

[kronovan]

I picked an AV8R up this afternoon and the difference playing BoP was quite dramatic - my ammo fired : hit ratio in dogfights went way up. It was also much easier to line up for dive bombing than with the 360 gamepad - really like night & day in comparison. I can see what you mean by stiff rudder - my God the deflection is only 15 Deg! That has to be the smallest angle I've ever seen on a twist rudder. Still worked well enough and definitely much better than the right thumbstick on the 360 gamepad.

Unfortunately, the [Start] button failed on it within an hour of operating it. I couldn't figure out why the heck the Start menu was no longer accessible, so I switched it to Mode 2, connected it up to my PC and did the driver install. Sure enough when I accessed it's properties from the WinXP Game Controller applet, the 'Start' button remains lit as soon as any other button is pressed. A shame because everything else calibrated very nicely and precisely in Windows. Oh well, guess I going to have to decide whether to exchange it for another one or bail. Can't say I'm overly impressed with the quality after that, but at least the performance was more than adequate in BoP on the 360. Unfortunately I didn't even get a chance to try it in BA2 or AC6. :confused:

[kronovan]

i just happen to have a modified av8r for sale cheap.i took 2 broken ones and wired them together.i just need to glue them.its for the dogfight train of death.you shoot the guy behind you with the left stick and the one in front of you with the one on the right.

Oh man, that's one sweet concept hurricane. :-P

[condorz38]

If you can afford it the ace edge (from ace combat 6 package) is a better stick. It is available new from Hori in black for about $300. A cheaper way is to go to ebay and find one to bid on. I looked on Amazon and you can buy a used one outright for $189. I had one that I bid $65 on and lost, then got an email 2 days later saying I could buy it for that price since the high bidder did not come through on payment. The throttle control is a separate unit connected to the stick by wire and has a toggle rudder switch you can squeeze with your fingers on the left hand. The hatswitch will give you cockpit look around and the dpad gives a pan around the plane. The only problem is cycling targets; since the a button is the trigger, the only way to change targets unless the lock on gets shot down is to actually see a different plane and shoot at it (close to it works). Better made than the saitek, and well worth the extra $15 or $20 if you can get it.

[kronovan]

As much as I'd like to justify spending many $ to get a great joystick for the 360, I think for that kind of money I'd just choose to get a new PC motherboard and RAM. My PC's CH Pro Pedals, 568 Combat stick and Saitek throttle quadrant cost close to $300 and I unfortunately can't really justify spending more than $50 on a 360 stick. My PC is also connected to my HDTV and home theater, so there isn't much the 360 can deliver for a better gaming experience. Unfortunately, in it's current state, my PC isn't quite as powerful as my 360, and I really couldn't get WoP to look as good as BoP while running as smoothly. Since it's at least covered by a 2 year warranty, I'll probably just go with another AV8R and just hope the next fairs better.

[Robotic Pope]

i just happen to have a modified av8r for sale cheap.i took 2 broken ones and wired them together.i just need to glue them.its for the dogfight train of death.you shoot the guy behind you with the left stick and the one in front of you with the one on the right.

Awesome. Now you just have to convince 505 games and and the developers to create a DLC with a Hurricane with another hurricane superglued by its right wing over the top of the others right wing! :-P

[hurricane]

your bringing me down man.and i thought it would work.
any way its still for sale even cheaper now, thanks popey

[Robotic Pope]

your bringing me down man.and i thought it would work.

Sorry Bucket. I guess instead you could bang some holes into the back of the wings and turn 6 of the machine guns backwards. At least then the plane would still fly straight and not just spin around like my other idea. lol

how much then bucketman? I'll have them for 5 cents

[hurricane]

i dont no pope.iv'e spent alot of time spinning in circles even with a perfectly functioning flight stick.

[hurricane]

Sorry Bucket. I guess instead you could bang some holes into the back of the wings and turn 6 of the machine guns backwards. At least then the plane would still fly straight and not just spin around like my other idea. lol

how much then bucketman? I'll have them for 5 cents

sold!!!!but you pay shipping.

[lcastell]

I have also had problems slowing the plane upon landing and miss not having brakes. I never thought to fire the guns as "Bobbysocks" suggests. A very interesting solution! However, as an ex-Air Force avionics technician working on jet fighters, this method of stopping may not prove popular with the ground crew. And remember it is the ground crew who makes sure that all of the nuts, bolts, etc. on your plane are tightened.

:-)