Saitek Cyborg FLY 9 Wireless Flightstick - REVIEW

[SEE]

If you are reading this for the first time I would recommend that you read some of the observations/comments from those who bought this flightstick. I have left the review intact but be aware that some experienced identical problems/failure.







Compared to the Saitek AV8R (Xbox), two things will strike you when you remove the Cyborg FLY 9 from the box and handle it for the first time.

a) The physical size.

b) This looks and feels like the stick that IL*2 Birds of Prey deserves despite that it more than likely still uses Analog to Digital technolgy for the flight data.





http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/sizewp.jpg


General

It is physically larger than the AV8R and the design, choice of materials, construction are a big improvement and it comes with a 2 year warranty. The buttons have a solid precise feel to them and the yoke action is smooth and precise though, new out of the box, some may find it feels too firm compared to the AV8R, particularly if they have used the popular tie-wrap mod to reduce spring pressure.

Upon arrival the yoke is separate and attached quickly rotating the threaded locking ring. The yoke is manufactured using what looks like a 'soft touch' polymer that feels solid and comfortable compared to the AV8R. The Base is moulded from what appears to be the industry standard HD Polystyrene or similar.

Once assembled and batteries inserted (2 x AA supplied) you will need to 'activate' the FLY9 and get it to be recognised by the Xbox. This is done once by pressing the controller activate button (on the front of the Xbox) and then pressing the 'activate' button the flightstick. This button is located under the stick but is recessed behind a small aperture and accessed by pushing something small through this aperture (its location is not mentioned in the instruction manual!)
Its a well thought ergonomic design with adjustments for Yoke rake, Top Hat angle and Yoke height though I found it perfect as set up on arrival. The twist rudder action appears to share similar construction to the AV8R but I have no idea as to the the density or thickness of the materials used inside this part of the construction. However, I would advise fitting the optional contoured feet that curve over your lap/thigh to allow the flightstick 'movement' in the event that you are prone to exerting too much force.


http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/componentswp.jpg



http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs
[IMG]http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/frontwp.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/hatwp.jpg


Flight Performance

In flight It feels more positive than the AV8R which, (probably due to wear) feels 'sloppy' in comparison.

Dead zone? Unfortunately this is an issue with the MS interface and most players have learned to live with that problem, it's certainly no worse than the AV8R.


As with the AV8R, you will need to select the mode for the various Xbox flight Sim titles with Mode 1 being assigned to BOP. OVER G Fighters is not listed in the manual whilst all the others (Ace Combat, Heroes, etc) are, whether this stick is actually compatible with Over G I cannot say.


In flight the five top Hat switches access Bombs, Rockets, Map, *Flaps/Select Target (*Simulator/Realistic) and Camera Target/*Trim (Realistic/*Simulator) with three marked in the familar Red, Yellow and Blue B, X, Y X-Box controller assignments.

The top hat also includes the POV camera and, due to the angle and proximity to the thumb, is far easier to manipulate compared with AV8R. These essential flight buttons are where you need them most! The exception to this the Zoom which I would have preferred to the Camera Target (or 'Trim' in Sim). All players will appreciate the default top hat switch set up compared to the AV8R but here, once again, Realistic/Arcade players would probably prefer the Zoom in place of the Map button.


Zoom and Cycle Views are located under and to the left of the Throttle control and this will mean training your little finger to acess or sliding your hand slight to the left of the throttle to use another finger. The D pad is mounted to the left of the throtte and, once again, has a much firmer and positive action than the AV8R (and a big + for MP) where you can easily access the D-Pad view functions.

It includes 'rumble' but I have this feature disabled so no comment on that.

Throttle control seems 'tighter' than the AV8R but this may be due to the fact its 'new out of the box'. Minimum value of throttle is the same as the AV8R at about 14%, below that it becomes 0%. (More comments on the Throttle below)

Conclusion

Any negatives? Just minor ones for me. The Zoom and Cycle views buttons are 'flush' and locating them with a finger (yet to be appointed and trained) are difficult to 'feel' for when using the throttle at the same time, some sort of nipple (or being set proud of the case) would have helped overcome this. As with all the joysticks for BOP (Xbox) the throttle data suffers from not latching the 0% value (it fades from the screen unlike the regular gamepad controller which latches this value when you hold the throttle at minimum) and hence 'no brakes' on flight sticks. The Headset socket is placed very close to the 'mode' switch in the same recess, thus when removing and fitting the headset the mode switch can easily be toggled to the incorrect mode without you knowing it, untill flight starts that is. Finally, for some people, being a dedicated Xbox only flightstick may be a problem.

This is 'Wireless' so keeping fresh batteries ready charged at the start of a long session might well be an idea even though this stick performed well with batteries in various states of charge. With a current consumption of 50ma I would expect good quality 1000 ma/hr AA cells to last approx 20hrs. I used it with re-chargeable AA types without any problems.

If you like a 'twist rudder' action, find the AV8R layout frustrating, are well organised with spare charged batteries then the Cyborg FLY 9 is definitely worth the extra cost.

[imnotgeoff]

looks nice,is it better than the ace edge?.can someone confirm if it will work with over g..i hate how thats the only flight game that aint compatible with my ace edge

[SEE]

I have never tried the Ace Edge but since I have visit to MarkyBoyBassist planned (and he has one!) will let you know. My only problem with the Ace Edge is the Rudder control being switches rather than a twist action (but that is purely down to the fact that I am used to the twist action) and that it needs to be mounted on a flat surface whereas I prefer to have the stick on my lap. From what I have heard the AceEdge is well made which it should be considering the price when first released.

[Lexandro]

SEE whats the "feel" like with that stick? What I mean by that is how is the grip material and how does it move around in the base socket. Is it stiff, loose, sticky etc ?

And how is the button placement for the top faceplate?

[SEE]

"feel' is personal but this feels very precise with the pressure required to move around the axis being consistent and like driving a Rolls Royce comapred to the AV8R. The Yoke material is a 'soft touch' polymer' that feels very comfortable (almost like rubber) with excellent grip - I love it and it doesn't need the tie wrap mod IMO. The top Hat switches are excellent and all accessed using the thumb. From left to right.......Map, Bombs, Rockets, Select Target or Flaps (realistic/sim) and Target Camera/Trim (realistic/simulator). POV camera sits in the middle.

[bobbysocks]

good review see. something for me to consider a ways down the road.... plus i want to see how it stands the test of time ( and adrenalin pumped combat stress..haha).

[Steiner]

Nice review.
Three things I'd like to know.
Is there a headphone/mic jack?
Does it have rumble feedback?
What does it cost?

Thanks ;)

[SEE]

Yes, incorporates Headphone/Mic jack and Rumble but no force feedback. R.R.P is just under 80-00 pounds but if you search google you will find them for less but many Discount suppliers are awaiting stock. I paid 71-00 pounds inc. P&P and next day delivery from Amazon. Cheapest I found was less but not in stock and P&P was extra.........its only been on the market for a few days so might be worth waiting.....I couldn't as my AV8R was driving me nuts and I simply cannot use a gamepad.....

[Steiner]

Thanks SEE.
I have an Ace Edge and really like it.
I just wish there was a flight stick for Over G.
It seems these sticks are going to work with After Burner Climax.

[Steiner]

The way that the stick attaches to the gimbal on the F.L.Y. 9 reminds me of the old fashioned Cannon plugs used in World War Two era aircraft.

http://uk.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/42264744.jpg

[SEE]

Its failed......can't believe it! Plane suddenly started yawing hard right, looked back in cockpit view and rudder was full hard right. Not a mechanical failure as with the AV8R but a hardware one.........switched it off, checked batteries, prayed, gently tapped it.....but no joy.......and it WAS such a great stick....I had even trained my little finger to hit that zoom button....damn!

[bobbysocks]

i think you want to leave it...sorry to hear that it was defective. might just be a fluke and you were the lucky one to get it. lets see how the company warrants it and deals with you. and how the next one will last.

[SEE]

The FLY 9 has a security label over the screws that hold the base on, any damage to that, in order to remove the screws, and its 'warranty void' so I won't be touching it. Will be shipped back to Amazon tomorrow.......hopefully it was just a rogue but I will call Madcatz tech support and tell them that it failed in the first few hours of use. I'm gentle with the rudder and I can feel the 'twist' tension so its not a mechanical failure - it happened quite suddenly during normal flight. Going to miss it as I really liked it......ah well, just have to be patient and press the AVR back into 'active service'.......

[SEE]

Just read that this Flightstick features 'rumble' but not mentioned in the spec or advertisements. I have 'vibration' turned off and hence didn't notice it. Mad Catz requested that my stick be returned directly to them rather than the seller Amazon. Satek Tech support were suprised to hear that it had developed a fault within hours of use.


Update: (this is the only review that comes up on Google) so for the benefit of anyone reading this thread I will update the Saitek/Madcatz response and level of support.

Madcatz have emailed me to confirm that they will be replacing the FLY 9 and that mine is undergoing analysis to determine the reason for its premature failure. Hopefully, this is due to a rogue assembly error rather than an inherrant design fault.

The replacement will be with me in the next day or so.

Confirmation via email that rechargeable cells can be used without affecting flight performance but expect to replace/recharge more frequently. 'Use of' not mentioned in Instruction booklet.

[Mig190]

I also bought the Cyborg FLY 9 this week and so far it feels pretty good, though I'm learning to fly all over again since the "feel" is different from the controller. My question is how do I pull out of a stall/flat spin? Depending on the direction of the flat spin, it tells me to pull the left trigger button and move the analog stick (icon of the 360 controller shows up) left or right depending on the direction. I'm lost on how that translates to the flight stick. Thanks in advance.

[SEE]

Cut throttle and apply full ailerons (swing yoke Left or Right) opposite to your direction of spin.....i.e, if your plane is spinning clockwise then yoke left and vice versa......once it stops spinning, engage moderate throttle and pull out of dive as normal increasing throttle as necessary.......unless you have run out 'altitude' in which case its.....bad language and respawn....:grin:

I found with the Cyborg that elevators are +1 for all a/c (i.e Spit 4 down not 5 down as on the AV8R on SIM)...........hope you like the Cyborg and layout.......let us know how you get on....

[bobbysocks]

full opposite ailerons? that would explain why i had such a heck of a time recovering from spins when i was trying out real/sim. i was chopping throttle, neutalizing the ailerons and kicking full opposite rudder..then waited to dump the nose to get out of the stall.... i will try this and proabably have better success.

[Robotic Pope]

full opposite ailerons? that would explain why i had such a heck of a time recovering from spins when i was trying out real/sim. i was chopping throttle, neutalizing the ailerons and kicking full opposite rudder..then waited to dump the nose to get out of the stall.... i will try this and proabably have better success.

No, what you were doing does work, thats how I get out of my spins. I really don't know why the spin recover tip in realistic says to use ailerons. Since the wings are stalled in a spin the ailerons should do nothing. Its called the PARE method, most times I don't even need to use the elevators.

Ive never managed yet to recover from a flat spin though, the MC202 is the plane most likely to get into one of those.

[bobbysocks]

thanks pope...i guess i just have to mess with my sensitivities....i may not have adjusted them before. use of the rudder was the way i was taught but sometimes games dont mimick real life. not all planes recover from spins..in real life the P39 was bad for that and tumbling. but some down elevator should take you out of a flat....but did also hear dropping gear might drop the nose...worth a try to keep from going SPLAT!

[SEE]

why on earth did I say ailerons?....of course its opposite rudder!.....I do this without thinking and also wrote down my reply without thinking.....silly me! Sorry guys.....it my age.....(lame excuse) :grin:

[bobbysocks]

i went and practiced on real and sim last night. i just think some AC are super prone to spin/stall. when i was in a spit or cane..cant remember which...i did fairly well. when i swtiched over the battle of the bulge and in 51....didnt do as bad as last time but it was more of a struggle. i will have to experiment with different planes. when i do get online i want something easier to fly and then can change as my skill gets better.

[bobbysocks]

So how has the FLY 9 Wireless been working for everyone? i have to get a new controller. keep twisting the rudder off my AV8R. the last mend job lasted a long time but.... is the FLY 9s hold up better? or what would be a good stick with rudder and throttle?

[bobbysocks]

UPDATE: i emailed saitek and just told them they needed to beef up the stick and they were very interested in what i had to say and wanted to make it right. i informed them that i had already "voided" my warranty and fixed it myself....but they wanted pictures of what i had done. they may be for real and want to do the right thing. i am going to suggest they view or post on here to get feedback from the people who REALLY use their products...we'll see what happens....i will keep you updated.

[SEE]

The rudder isn't the only weak point on the AV8R and is prone to a number of problems if used for more than just the occaisional session. Unfortunately, not a lot of choice for the Xbox and your left with the Ace Edge or the FLY9. I like the FLY9 and very happy with it - seems to be coping well with the endless hours of use it has endured compared to the AV8R. Having just bought IL-1946 I ordered the PC version (Cyborg X) which is very similar but half the price. The 5 button top hat is ideally suited for Realistic or SIM other than Zoom and Cockpit view buttons are placed near the throttle ( I would prefer Zoom to have been on the top hat), other than that it's been great and glad Saitek (MadCatz) released an alternative to the AV8R. Ideally, MS could do us all a favour and upgrade their OS to accept PC sticks but that isn't likely to happen.......mind you, the FLY 9 is now available at a lower price than I paid.

[bobbysocks]

sounds like a sale to me...thanks see

[SEE]

....I use rechargeable AA batteries so might be worth getting a pack of four if you don't have any..............

[bobbysocks]

good to know. i have a camera that takes rechargeable AAs so i can use them. ordered the fly 9 and at the same time got an email from madcatz...they will replace my AV8R. So i will have a spare stick...which i hope i do not need..lol. thanks for all the info see. hope to see you in the skys soon.

[SEE]

Hey BS, let us know how you find the FLY 9! Your opinions may be completely different to mine and would be useful for others. I still get a lot of people asking on line about Flightsticks for Xbox. Many are not aware of what is available, which to get or even where to get one from!

[bobbysocks]

I got and i love it. the action is much smoother ... especially the rudder. you dont have to fight it like you have to with the AV8R so i think there is way less chance of over stressing it. the one pad near the throttle does take getting used to. when i rest the heal of my had on the body of the stick i end up hitting that pad....which gives you your side, front, and rear views. i just have to learn to hold my hand differently. i does take getting used to. i like that most of the controls are @ your thumb..so its easier to use. i got mine from fadfusion ... mail order place here in pennsylvania and paid about $92 usd including shipping and got it with in 3 days. i think i fly better ( but still like crap...) but i think i will pick it up a lot faster with this stick.

[SEE]

Glad you like it, you will soon get used to it! I tried to talk to you about the FLY9 and whether you had got it (in the matches we played on friday night) but there was a lot of echo bouncing around and you couldn't hear me too well. May be next time......:grin:

[bobbysocks]

the echo seems to be coming from my mic... cant figure it out. that part of life worked well with the AV8R...( except in real crowded rooms...over 8 or 10 ). sean roberts001....messaged me to tell me i was echoing bad...so got to figure that one out. the night before i did 3 or 4 sim dogfights with beavercompany...and there wasnt a problem ( but there was only the 2 of us). maybe my connection?? i have dsl is all i can tell you. ALSO...now i seem to have this "freeze frame" i never had before. the screen freezes for a second....OR the AC dissapear...one minute they are in my sites the next...WAY far away. that might just be co-incidence or server issues....but thought i was skipping a groove there for a minute.
enjoyed playing a couple games with you...although i was screwing with things and couldnt buy a kill. i have good games and bad ones....but thats life. we need to start to set up some good friday/saturday night missions like the PS3 boys are. like do a battle of britian night...bombing of berlin...y29...jets vs 17 night ( strike). you want to work on this with me? we could make some pretty cool games. i will PM you my email address...

[bobbysocks]

my stick ended up doing the same thing SEE's did....locked the rudder to the one side. emailed madcatz and didnt hear back...so called them. i got a pretty helpful guy and told him my problem. he came right back with the reason. the potentiometer that controls the rudder is at the bottom of the stick where all the movement is...one of the 3 wires has come off. then..much to my suprise, he told me its an easy fix and asked if it was something i tought i could do? i told him i didnt want to VOID my warranty in case i have to send it in for another reason. according to him...as long as he gives me the ok and enters my info...there is no problem. he then took a stick apart while talkin to me on the phone and went step by step on how to fix it... hmmm ... will keep you updated on this one.

[Crosshair14]

I dont like the stick I like PS3 controller better.

[SEE]

I took my FLY 9 apart to look at the internals and locate an intermittent problem with it. This time it was not the rudder pot but the elevator pot which had a wire that needed re-soldering. During manufacture hot melt glue is used to secure the wire to the solder connections (to prevent them from breaking away during movement of the flight stick yoke). The glue was the problem (which I wont go into here). Its been fine since and thankfully that rudder pot is very easy to get to but I was expecting to see a conventional pot rather than that pre-set miniature type held in place with glue. If mine packs up again I will transplant the AV8R wired elctronics in and hopefully get one reliable product from the two........:grin:

(...but, touch wood it's been fine so far and I do use it a lot!)

[bobbysocks]

well....did as the guy told me and works fine. like you said SEE the glue is the problem and shaving it away from the connector was a B!tc#. i didnt use glue when i replaced the wire i used silicone. think i may screw around with the old AV8R and pull the rudder pot out and fashion rudder pedals...that is if madcatz doesnt ofer to give me a new one...:grin: but back in the air...just have to figure what is up with my mic...too much echo.

[hurricane]

i revived this post after reading about drivins problem with his flight stick.i know see "evangaluse" is out of town and didnt know if you ever read this.wonder why xbox il2 users never stickied flight stick tests like the ps3 guys did.

[bobbysocks]

mine crapped out again a couple days after i fixed it. sent it in but havent gotten it back yet. same deal....wire came off rudder pot.

[Robotic Pope]

i revived this post after reading about drivins problem with his flight stick.i know see "evangaluse" is out of town and didnt know if you ever read this.wonder why xbox il2 users never stickied flight stick tests like the ps3 guys did.

Yeah, I think Angelo has given up with the fly 9 now. He said he was going to gut it and put in the inards of an AV8R with its wired conection to the 360.

AV8R = Bad quality plastics and design, but with ok wiring.

Fly 9 = Better design and plastics that are less likly to snap from use, but very unreliable wiring.

[Drvn1]

Yeah, i am actually very dissapointed as this stick only lasted me 3 days.. I will most likely stick with the controller and trade this thing in on some turtle beach headsets ;)

[SEE]

Very dissappointing to hear that all of these sticks have failed but even more concerned that all had identical problems. Mine recently became very unstable in flight, first with intermittent throttle and shortly after with the other flight controls. I like the stick itself but at the moment the only model worth geting in terms of reliability is the ACE EDGE. I have had to revert back to my PC SAITEK Cyborg 3D Gold (modified for Xbox) while I either find the cause of the problem with the FLY or modify it using the AV8R PCB (kindly donated by MadMaxfury) and revert back to the USB which was more reliable.

[hurricane]

Yeah, i am actually very dissapointed as this stick only lasted me 3 days.. I will most likely stick with the controller and trade this thing in on some turtle beach headsets ;)

never heard of a turtle beach headset until now ,i'll have to google that.

[bobbysocks]

i have one but get a lot of echo. i bought a new wire to see if that is the problem but havent had the chance to try it yet. all in all its a pretty decent head set...comfortable and such.

[hurricane]

Very dissappointing to hear that all of these sticks have failed but even more concerned that all had identical problems. Mine recently became very unstable in flight, first with intermittent throttle and shortly after with the other flight controls. I like the stick itself but at the moment the only model worth geting in terms of reliability is the ACE EDGE. I have had to revert back to my PC SAITEK Cyborg 3D Gold (modified for Xbox) while I either find the cause of the problem with the FLY or modify it using the AV8R PCB (kindly donated by MadMaxfury) and revert back to the USB which was more reliable.

modified how?

[bobbysocks]

and is anyone using this ace edge on xbox?? how is it working for you. i found a couple at a fair price...would like to know the scoop before i shell out for another stick.

[SEE]

Modified by transplanting the PCB, Analogue POV and flight potentiometers from my broken AV8R into the PC stick. Every one who I have spoken to rates the Ace EDge very highly. I saw SgtMadmax's and have to say its well engineered piece of kit. Unfortunately it would not suit me as it is in two parts with a lever type rudder throttle on the left module. I tend to have the stick on my lap as there is no room to have a desktop mounted flight system but if one came along cheap enough I would buy it!

[hurricane]

Modified by transplanting the PCB, Analogue POV and flight potentiometers from my broken AV8R into the PC stick. Every one who I have spoken to rates the Ace EDge very highly. I saw SgtMadmax's and have to say its well engineered piece of kit. Unfortunately it would not suit me as it is in two parts with a lever type rudder throttle on the left module. I tend to have the stick on my lap as there is no room to have a desktop mounted flight system but if one came along cheap enough I would buy it!

the ace edge is 2 peices side by side so you cant put it on your lap but you don't have to mount it.i set mine on a cheap tv tray.having been through 2 aviators and now using an ace edge i can tell you the ace edge is much stronger but i would fly an av8r now if i had an endless supply.

[bobbysocks]

how far apart can you place the 2 pieces?? do they have to be right next to each other or can you have them say..18 inches apart?

[SEE]

You can have them either side of you, I think there was a pic (some time ago!) with an Ace edge set up on a armchair with one module on the right arm and the other on the left arm.

[SEE]

In the process of converting my FLY 9 to USB operation by installing the PCB from a defunct AV8R I was able to investigate the problem with the failure of the wiring to the rudder potentiometer. It’s no coincidence that this failure has happened in a short space of time to three members who purchased this flightstick. The rudder potentiometer is mounted on the base of the yoke assembly and thus moves in a three dimensional arc. The wires attached to it also have to follow this movement and after a short period of time the wires will suffer fatigue and one or more will eventually part company at the soldered joint. In production hot melt glue is used to prevent this happening but unfortunately it can only be applied directly over the soldered joint which isn’t going to work as the wires need to be anchored at least 10mm away from their soldered joint. In its present production version this cannot be done as the potentiometer is the same size as the diameter of the yoke base. In addition, the wires to the potentiometer have their movement restricted by their proximity to the battery compartment and the base cover. It’s a recipe for continual failure. I have resolved the problem but only because mine is now USB wired rather than wireless and the battery compartment has been removed allowing me to modify the base of the yoke so that an anchor point for the wiring could be included. Fitting the AV8R PCB is a complicated process but it solved all the problems I had been experiencing (and I will be able to use it on my PC!). As I said, I like the design of this stick and have stuck with it but, unfortunately for most, these reliability issues will be a major drawback.

The situation for Xbox owners wanting a decent flightstick is grim to say the least!

1. The Ace Edge is well engineered but not readily available.

2. The FLY 9 is ergonomically well designed with good quality materials but reliability is an issue.

3. This leaves us with the AV8R which is cheap and cheerful and IMO best suited for occasional use. Anything more than that and many of us have found the yoke assembly to be a weak point with failure of the rudder shaft and yoke buttons. For the DIY enthusiast modifying the AV8R with an improved yoke assembly is possible. The one below has the Yoke assembly from a Cyborg 3D gold which is substantially better and works extremely well.

In a nutshell, for Xbox flyers - learn to fly with a controller or hunt for an Ace Edge. I have left the review intact but inserted a cautionary note at the beginning for anyone reading this thread for the first time.

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/AVRmod.jpg

[bobbysocks]

lately ebay (us) has had some decent deals on ace edge from $40 up... might be worth snagging one.

[hurricane]

like bobby said you can usually find ace edge sticks on usa ebay for less than 100$ "used of course".whats the status in the uk?

[SEE]

Status in the UK is 'hens teeth'! Only one used Hori Ace Edge shows up on a google search - EBAY $150, located in the US.

[bobbysocks]

wow....maybe we can mail them to you! i'd be willing. i just got one for $46. plus shipping. there were no less then 5 over the last week and i believe they all went less than $70...except the bundled one with a game and extras NIB. presently, i just checked there are 4 available.

[hurricane]

only trouble is the shipping cost

[hurricane]

In the process of converting my FLY 9 to USB operation by installing the PCB from a defunct AV8R I was able to investigate the problem with the failure of the wiring to the rudder potentiometer. It’s no coincidence that this failure has happened in a short space of time to three members who purchased this flightstick. The rudder potentiometer is mounted on the base of the yoke assembly and thus moves in a three dimensional arc. The wires attached to it also have to follow this movement and after a short period of time the wires will suffer fatigue and one or more will eventually part company at the soldered joint. In production hot melt glue is used to prevent this happening but unfortunately it can only be applied directly over the soldered joint which isn’t going to work as the wires need to be anchored at least 10mm away from their soldered joint. In its present production version this cannot be done as the potentiometer is the same size as the diameter of the yoke base. In addition, the wires to the potentiometer have their movement restricted by their proximity to the battery compartment and the base cover. It’s a recipe for continual failure. I have resolved the problem but only because mine is now USB wired rather than wireless and the battery compartment has been removed allowing me to modify the base of the yoke so that an anchor point for the wiring could be included. Fitting the AV8R PCB is a complicated process but it solved all the problems I had been experiencing (and I will be able to use it on my PC!). As I said, I like the design of this stick and have stuck with it but, unfortunately for most, these reliability issues will be a major drawback.

The situation for Xbox owners wanting a decent flightstick is grim to say the least!

1. The Ace Edge is well engineered but not readily available.

2. The FLY 9 is ergonomically well designed with good quality materials but reliability is an issue.

3. This leaves us with the AV8R which is cheap and cheerful and IMO best suited for occasional use. Anything more than that and many of us have found the yoke assembly to be a weak point with failure of the rudder shaft and yoke buttons. For the DIY enthusiast modifying the AV8R with an improved yoke assembly is possible. The one below has the Yoke assembly from a Cyborg 3D gold which is substantially better and works extremely well.

In a nutshell, for Xbox flyers - learn to fly with a controller or hunt for an Ace Edge. I have left the review intact but inserted a cautionary note at the beginning for anyone reading this thread for the first time.

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/AVRmod.jpg

aaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

[Robotic Pope]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? :P

[markyboyacebassist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdvTGTZMj8Q


I received the package from Hong Kong within 10 working days, which is amazing considering it was ordered just before Xmas.
Well packaged & protected, my first impression was the solid construction & excellent build quality. (after using the AV8R which I think is excellent value!)
So I guess you get what you pay for!
There are two controls,the left being the throttle(which you can adjust for tension.) also on the throttle control you have the LB button,a D pad, rudder control & back button(lowers under carriage on IL2)
Microphone settings are also here.
The right control is the flight stick, standard set up,the top houses a D pad, a coolie hat control which has a twin control feature, view cam when moved & camera setting when depressed (3rd person,gunner, cockpit view.)
A start button is located on the top leading edge of the stick.
Y,B & X buttons complete the top controls.
There are two trigger controls, the top one being the A button & the lower acts as your camera target lock.
On the base the microphone socket & Xbox button are located.
This flight stick is perfect for IL2 BOP!
All the settings function & work perfectly, once you get used to the two handed set up, you will not want to stop flying!
I highly recommend this flight stick & I know they are getting scarce as they were produced as a limited edition.
It also looks very cool in black as opposed to the green & cream Ace Combat 6 model!

[SEE]

Bucketmanroc said that the rudder control on his Ace Edge was the only aspect he disliked as it could only be full or nothing. Is that correct MarkeyBoyB?

With the Saitek and FLY9 twist rudder you can have any degree of rudder.

[markyboyacebassist]

Bucketmanroc said that the rudder control on his Ace Edge was the only aspect he disliked as it could only be full or nothing. Is that correct MarkeyBoyB?

With the Saitek and FLY9 twist rudder you can have any degree of rudder.

The rudder works on a paddle system & is touch sensitive, a gentle touch results in fine rudder movement, a quicker touch, speedier movement.:grin:

[Kirki]

I only had my flight stick for two weeks before the rudder controls broke and the rudder was locked in the right twist position, after getting it replaced and using it again after an hours use the same problem happened again. After looking on the internet it looks like a design fault.
I'm gutted, the flight stick has been awesome for the few hours I have used it and I just hope that when its replaced this time it doesnt break again.

:-x

[SEE]

It is a design fault and, unless Madcatz modify the method to secure the leads that connect to the floating rudder potentiometer, it will keep happening! It's a simple mod they need to carry out in manufacture that involves a small piece of plastic being added to the base of the yoke to provide a better anchor point for the wires but they also need to mount the potentiometer 180 degrees off-set from the current position due to the proximity of the battery housing as it interferes with the natural movement of the wires. The rudder problem has been cured since carrying out the mod on my stick.

[markyboyacebassist]

It is a design fault and, unless Madcatz modify the method to secure the leads that connect to the floating rudder potentiometer, it will keep happening! It's a simple mod they need to carry out in manufacture that involves a small piece of plastic being added to the base of the yoke to provide a better anchor point for the wires but they also need to mount the potentiometer 180 degrees off-set from the current position due to the proximity of the battery housing as it interferes with the natural movement of the wires. The rudder problem has been cured since carrying out the mod on my stick.


Sounds to me like they need Angelo on their design team! :-P:-P

[bobbysocks]

i second that...or as a PAID consultant or tester!

[Kirki]

Any detailed advice on how to fix my flight stick myself? I would rather try and fix it if its fairly straightforward.

[bobbysocks]

yes you can do it. BUT call madcatz ahead of time!! and get the reps name. he will get your info and the ok so you dont void your warranty. he will give you instructions which basically are" take the bottom off. there are screws under the rubber anti skid pads. once in, there are 3 wires on the rudder pot. one (or more) has disconnected. they are soldered and then covered in hot glue. getting through the glob of glue to them is a royal pain in the @$$. solder the wire back on the pot.. rehot glue it...i used clear silicone. and reassemble. if that is too much for you you can send it in...if you fix it and it doesnt work you can do the same. but like i said have the reps name and phone extension...just in case.

[SEE]

Re-applying hot melt glue after the wire(s) have been re-soldered will not solve the problem, if it did then they wouldn't break away in the first place! The base of the yoke is the same size as the potentiometer and the glue can only be applied directly onto the soldered joint. Too compound the problem you must not get any glue on the outer circumference of the yoke base otherwise it will stop the rudder from twisting. The wires will simply break away again after a short period of time so forget re-applying hot melt glue over the soldered joints.

With the base removed you will see that hot melt glue is also used to secure the rudder pot to the base of the yoke (it doesn't need this as the rudder pot clips into place). You could remove the hot melt glue from one side of the potentiometer and run your newly soldered wires along the side of the pot and then apply hot melt glue to secure the wires and the pot (killing two birds with one stone so to speak!). The wires are now secured away from the soldered joint but to the base of the yoke and well away from the outer circumference (which must be free to rotate). The wires are now feeding from the opposite direction and will no longer be fouling the the battery housing (which was also part of the problem).

They (Madcatz) should have sorted this by now - its not exactly rocket science!

[hurricane]

:-Pi second that...or as a PAID consultant or tester!

thats all we need angelo testing flight sticks online.i can here it now.my stick is knackered,oh bloody hell iv'e been got.i hate this bloody map ican't see a thing.or if the mic is screwed up aaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy?

[SEE]

Not many to test for Xbox, I would be redundant after 10 minutes....:grin:

Fortunately, the days of knackered 'out of the box' flight sticks doing my head in has long past and, yep!, I hate those horrid, murky grey, can't see sweet F/A furball maps where it all happens at 25 ft above the deck...........I really hate them!

[Kirki]

Thanks for the advice, I will speak to Madcats and see if they will go for it. Funnily enough after sending an email to Madcats and telling them this is my second stick they offered to collect it and fix it free of charge, which is how it should be really.

[SEE]

The Cyborg X (for PC) has exactly the same rudder set up but the wires never fall off. The only difference is that there is no battery housing to interfere with the movement of the wires attached to the rudder pot. They offered to pick mine up when it failed three days after purchase and sent me a new one. They said that they wanted to keep it and evaluate why it failed - they obviousley didn't come with a solution!

All the best with the repair/replacement.

[hurricane]

:-P

thats all we need angelo testing flight sticks online.i can here it now.my stick is knackered,oh bloody hell iv'e been got.i hate this bloody map ican't see a thing.or if the mic is screwed up aaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy?

most of the time its me saying nice shot angelo what stick you using?damn angelo you got me again!shit! go shoot someone else!!

[Robotic Pope]

most of the time its me saying nice shot angelo what stick you using?damn angelo you got me again!shit! go shoot someone else!!

If it makes you happy Bucket, I will shoot at you more so Angelo doesn't get the chance 'cos you'll be already dead. ;):grin:

[bobbysocks]

The Cyborg X (for PC) has exactly the same rudder set up but the wires never fall off. The only difference is that there is no battery housing to interfere with the movement of the wires attached to the rudder pot. They offered to pick mine up when it failed three days after purchase and sent me a new one. They said that they wanted to keep it and evaluate why it failed - they obviousley didn't come with a solution!

All the best with the repair/replacement.

so you think if i cut out the battery box and put an adapter to the correct voltage it might work??? other than that i am sticking with my ace combat and dumping the fly9 on ebay,......when they send it back. so far i have had to relearn to fly on 3 different sticks...its like being a cadet! i wish kit carson was still running clobber college. HEY i just got an idea!

[SEE]

If you are happy with the Ace Edge then sell the FLY 9 as, quite frankly, it's an expensive stick to have as a 'back-up'. I wouldn't remove the battery housing but try re-routing the wires to the potentiometer from the opposite direction. Remove the glue on one side of the potentiometer and run the wires along the edge of the potentiometer now free of glue and, holding the wires next to the side of the potentiometer just drop a small amount of hot melt glue to hold them in place. You might need to lengthen the pot wires - waggle the yoke around and check that the wires have enough slack to move freely.

You may find that removing the battery housing will affect any future sale but if you are intent on keeping it (and fed up with changing batteries) then I guess you could carefully hack the housing away. Problem is that 3V adaptors are not very common. I removed the housing on mine but only because I installed an AV8R PCB (which is USB powered) and the battery compartment was not needed.

[Kirki]

I ended up sending my Saitek FLY 9 back to madcatz or I should say they sent a courier to collect it, after three days I had the stick back fixed and its been working fine ever since. I have purchased a wireless gaming receiver for the PC and so am very happy now with this purchase. A wireless flight stick that works on the 360 and PC (with adaptor) for £70 is great in my book.

[SEE]

I don't want to spoil your excitement about using the FLY9 on a PC but be aware that you cannot get full deviation of the X and Y axis on a PC based flight sim using any controller designed for Xbox. I was hoping to use mine with IL1946 and discovered that I could only get 80% deviation. Its a limitation of the stick when used with a PC interface.

[Kirki]

I havnt tried IL2 for the PC with this new stick so I dont know how it plays with FLY 9, I couldnt stop stalling the plane when I tried with the Sidewinder Force Feedback and so its put me off, I have only tried Lock on Flaming Cliffs 2 and DLC Black Shark and they seem to be ok with the FLY 9. I take it deviation means the sensitivity of the controls.

[SEE]

In IL2, set your pitch profile to around 80 or 85 on the last slider bar (in the hardware setup menu) when using PC flightsticks. That will stop you stalling on planes like the Spit. When flying other ac (e.g. the LA's) set the sensiitivity to max. If you use the fLY 9 or any Xbox flightstick on a PC you won't get full pitch anyway and find all the ac easier to handle but the ac handling will be compromised in turning fights.