Best level 5 units

[pavned]

I know that if you surf trough the entire forum you might get all the answers you are looking for but I'd like to put it all in one thread. So here it is:

What is the best level 5 units? Is the black dragon so much better then the rest? Personnaly I can'T wait to upgrade my level 2 Phenix spell to a level 3!

I tought the Cyclops was pretty good, but I went on a journey that cost me 4!

[DGDobrev]

In my eyes, the Bone Dragons are the best for single-stack army and Red Dragons for 5-troop army, even though I used a single Black Dragon stack throughout most of my Mage games.

Black Dragons are good if you want to stop the enemy hero's spellcasting, do item upgrades and suppressions (since black dragons can't be hit by spells) or deal with enemies who inflict mainly magic or fire damage. The downside is that they can't be ressed and there is no way to boost them with Stone Skin.

Red Dragons have slightly lower resistances and health, but they can hit a number of enemies in an indefinite straight line and can be resurrected by the Inquisitors. They can also act as tanks with Stone Skin and an occasional Heal.

Trolls must not be underestimated as well because of their overpowered regeneration ability, but their usefulness usually ends when the player gets a good army and puts his feet on the ground as he/she should. Another usefulness lies when fighting some underground bosses (Spider, Driller, K'Tahu), because with Stone skin on they can shrug off the damage and regen in the very same turn.

Bone Dragons are quite cool too. They inflict poison damage, which is great - few enemies other than undead have resistance against it, and can also cut through Dragon lines in record time with their poison cloud ability. The other positive is that they can be resurrected with Elvin, while the other dragons (besides black and bone) can only be ressed by Inquisitors.

[jake21]

I believe that timeback works on red/green dragons.

In my eyes, the Bone Dragons are the best for single-stack army and Red Dragons for 5-troop army, even though I used a single Black Dragon stack throughout most of my Mage games.

Black Dragons are good if you want to stop the enemy hero's spellcasting, do item upgrades and suppressions (since black dragons can't be hit by spells) or deal with enemies who inflict mainly magic or fire damage. The downside is that they can't be ressed and there is no way to boost them with Stone Skin.

Red Dragons have slightly lower resistances and health, but they can hit a number of enemies in an indefinite straight line and can be resurrected by the Inquisitors. They can also act as tanks with Stone Skin and an occasional Heal.

Trolls must not be underestimated as well because of their overpowered regeneration ability, but their usefulness usually ends when the player gets a good army and puts his feet on the ground as he/she should. Another usefulness lies when fighting some underground bosses (Spider, Driller, K'Tahu), because with Stone skin on they can shrug off the damage and regen in the very same turn.

Bone Dragons are quite cool too. They inflict poison damage, which is great - few enemies other than undead have resistance against it, and can also cut through Dragon lines in record time with their poison cloud ability. The other positive is that they can be resurrected with Elvin, while the other dragons (besides black and bone) can only be ressed by Inquisitors.

[Zechnophobe]

For me, Red Dragons are the best all around. They do amazing damage, and have significantly better health/leadership and damage/leadership than black dragons. Getting red dragons early on in the game is the single best boost you can get (Yummy shield of rekross!)

Bone Dragons however have their share of tricks. Eviln obviously, but also the target/timeback combo:

Step 1: Move bone dragons into middle of group of bad guys
Step 2: Cast target on them, and wait until end of turn
Step 3: At end of turn (Surrounded by attackers) use poison breath to damage many many stacks at once.
Step 4: Wait with bone dragons turn 2
Step 5: At end of turn, cast time back, to return them to full health, and fly into center of old spot, and use Poison Breath again to once gain hit a whole lot of stacks.

42 mana, second round of combat and you are at full health, and have done a whole lot of poison damage to a whole lot of units. Works just as well with allies. Take a bunch of archers to go in with bone dragon to help pick of baddies, works pretty good.

[DGDobrev]

You're absolutely right. It works, but it's a whopping 30 mana and requires lvl 3 Distortion magic, which the fighter classes can't afford so easily in the beginning. As a mage, you won't have much trouble.

Bone Dragons provide greater efficiency, because even a lvl 1 Evlin for 15 mana (1/10 of the stack recovered) can save you from getting any losses. Lvl 2 is 25 mana and replenishes 1/5 of the stack, while for a fighter class Time Back is 30 and is a one-time miracle until you manage to save up 30 mana again (mana accelerator works, but why spending it on recovering mana when you can spend it on something offensive).

That's the thing... KBTL and KBAP are games that really like efficiency :)

[pavned]

Is it me or the Ancient Ent is ridiculously uneffective? Aside the fact that it's pratically undestroyable "against non fire based attacking units" can you really use it?

I think it would make it the worst level 5 unit kinda like the Assassin for all level 4 units!
:)

[dashcunning]

Ancient Ents are actually an excellent ranged unit. The damage they do is only surpassed by the extremely fragile thorn hunters and skeleton archers. As you noted, Ents are stupidly tough. That said, ranged units aren't all that great in general. Being among the best of a mediocre bunch isn't anything to get excited about. Similar to cyclops, more damage and health but less mobility and damage resistance. Neither have any tricks that the really good lvl 5 units do.

I would say Ogres are the worst lvl 5 unit, poor damage and the lowest health and damage resistance of the lvl 5s. The drain ability is nifty but only usable once.

[DGDobrev]

+1 vote for the Ogres being the worst lvl 5 unit. Although their steal AP ability is nice, it is not as useful as other lvl 5 units' abilities and he doesn't get the utility of the rest lvl 5 units. Besides, orcs plain suck on impossible (low resistances - baaad, very baaaad!), with the exception of the shamans, who are a decent utility unit.

So far I've discovered that the Orcs is the only race that can't beat up a tougher boss (Zilgadis or K'Tahu) properly on impossible without suffering complete and utter destruction. Even the dwarves with Cannoneers, Alchemists/Foremen, Giants and Droids do better than them.

[Petwin]

The tank of choice is of course the Troll. When you take the cost of leadership into account, Ancient Ents are suprisingly acceptable for a tank role, as long as they're not the target of fire based damage. in that case Archdemons are the tank of choice, closely followed by Black dragons. Another surprise: Red and Emerald Dragons are poor choices (low HP/leadership ratio, relatively low defence).
Be that as it may, my vote for the worst lvl5 unit goes to the giant: just to little bang for my leadership-buck.

In the role of damage dealer, Ancient Ents seem all right. In practice, the no retaliation attacks of the dragons give better results. The Cyclops, Orge and Troll are unfit to serve as damage dealer.

[pavned]

Great job for the comparison chart Petwin. But there'S a thing you can't understimate with level 5 unit is the mobility. Aside the Dragons, those units are all very slow. The Dragons are giving players so much options, that'S why they cause so much in terms of leadership.

[Zechnophobe]

Ogre's may be the worst per unit, but the AP steal ability makes them a lot better than Trolls as actual damage dealers. On the first turn they can take out the opponents strongest stack, as well as move into damage range.

I think the worst really are the Ancient Ents. Any Level 5 with -100 resistance of ANY kind is not something I go in for. My List is probably something like:


Red
Bone

Black-Troll
Green-Archdemons
Cyclops -Tirex
Ogres
Giants
Ancient Ents

Blacks and Trolls are both very good, depending on your strategic options. A mage can love himself suicide black dragons due to them not actually taking damage from spells he casts. Trolls solo stacking is well known as an awesome strategy... but as part of a full army... trolls aren't that great.

Greens are amazing late game for mana generation, But Archdemons are the fastest unit in the game (Both init and speed) and also can be cripplingly powerful against other level 5 units of similar size, and good resistences.

And then... Tirexes and Cyclops, only good because hey... they are level 5. Tirexes are like more mobile, less consistent trolls.

Ogres are cool early on when they are still tanky, but later on their one-off trick just isn't as useful as the dominatingly powerful abilities of the others.

Giants and Ents are just... bad.