What units to use as games goes on

[rollems]

hi all.

i am new to game but getting hang of it and really enjoying it. i was curious what units do you guys get or suggest to get while the game goes on.

i am currently having.
2 Archmages , 34 royal snakes , 1 royal throne , 15 polar bear , 15 droids.
8 black nights ( cant get more currently )
just unlocked Rusty anchor.

so what army would you suggest me to get.

is there a list which says what to get/drop while games progresses ?

[TemjinGold]

Hey there, what difficulty are you playing? Do you care about losses? If you are playing fairly low difficulties and/or don't care about losing units, you can really play almost anything. The great thing about this game this that there isn't one unit you HAVE to use to win.

[DGDobrev]

There is no such list, and everything is up to your own judgment. I can't help much but here's the guidelines I conform to when I'm selecting what kind of army to use:

1. The More HP, The Better.
2. Army must be balanced:
- 1 or 2 tank(s)
- 2 or 3 Damage dealers
- 1 or 2 Support units (healing, resurrection, damage dampening, etc.)
3. Ensure meatshields if possible:
- Units like Royal Thorns, Royal Griffins and Demonologists can become available very early on, and they spawn meatshield that reduce the damage your main tank(s) take.
4. Ensure good spell support:
- stoneskin, a must-have all the time on the tank
- slow - when the enemy stacks are huge, slow them down
- trap - equivalent to slow
- if you're a mage, ensure good damage on your spells (flaming arrow, poison skull, fireball)

That usually does it for me.

[rollems]

sorry for incomplete information.

i am playing Paladin. on normal difficulty.
i took lot of casualities early cause i was learning... i can go back and do better.. but i dont feel like repeating.

what are damage dealer ? how you identify them ?

how does Royal Thorn spawn meatshield that reduce the damage your main tank(s) take. ???

is stone skin spell limited? if yes from where i get them

thanx.

[DGDobrev]

1) Damage dealer is any unit with decent damage per leadership ratio and is usually a unit that will not take damage in the fight unless it has to. Such units are (in my opinion):
the Horsemen when having enough space to charge
the tough units, who can also act as tanks if need be (Paladins, Knights, Black Knights, lvl 5 units)
the units with "No Retaliation" ability (Royal Snakes, Imps, Fairies, Dryads)
the ranged units when there's a good tank with the spell Target on (elves, hunters, skel archers, etc.)

Those are the ones I usually choose to mop up the enemy.

2) That was a figure of speech... The Royal Thorns and other summoners simply spawn units that can be lost without worrying about them. So if your tank remains behind and your expendable units charge, they will draw the attacks of the enemy troops, leaving your tanking stack safe for a while while your ranged units take care of the enemy or you cast spells to buff up your tank. Having your Knights or Paladins start tanking with stone skin on while all other enemies are burning or otherwise with reduced capabilities or numbers is much better than having your tank soak up the damage right from the start.

3) Get distortion magic skill in the mage tree. It will allow you to scribe the spell into your book and use it whenever you wish. The scrolls are limited by their total number in your spellbook, so if you want to use a scroll permanently, do not use the last one! You'll need to copy it into your book later.

[Zechnophobe]

Another good tip, it is hard to go wrong with Dragons.

[tetleytea]

If you're in the Rusty Anchor part of the game, I swear by Marauders. They really help turn up a surplus of gold. They're fast, no retaliate every other turn, they Bless well, they Resurrect at level 1, and your first companion gives them +1 Morale and lets you train them for cheap. I also like pirates/sea dogs at that part of the game, and for a lot of the same reasons; I just don't swear by them like I do Marauders. But they sure do help when you're out fighting on your boat. Later on in Verona/Montero I switch them out for Knights. Basically I trade Sea Dogs' cerberus-style attack for Knights' circular attack.

I'm not going for no-loss--what I do is I'll take a few casualties, but the extra gold I grab more than makes up for it. If, by my Marauders scavenging, the AI knocks off a couple of my Guardsmen, so what--I just got 2500 gold.

[Elias_Maluco]

Another good tip, it is hard to go wrong with Dragons.

Truth. And Cyclops. Get Cyclops: good damage, high defense and HP, ranged but also excellent melee fighters when the battle gets to then.

[rollems]

where / when do u get dragon ?

[DGDobrev]

If you get a Call Collosus scroll, you can get a dragon through it. Otherwise, unless you have a favorable setup (red dragons were known to spawn in Rusty anchor tavern), it will be quite some time before you get them, because the first avaiable dragon (green on rusty) is relatively hard to get and involves some kiting.

[rollems]

ok i just got Call Collosus on BOLO. but when i used the spell it gave me just 3 ogrs. am i doing some thing wrong??? how to get the dragon ????

got it if i goto debir and use the spell i get Ent. if i use in scarlet/rusty i get green dragon. if i goto verona and use it i get a giant. if i use it in Bolo i get Orgs
so now which one u suggest
my current situation is in screen shot. i just unloacked verona/rusty. stole few flags here and there from those islands. have killed all on scarlet and almost all on bolo.
so what army shall i get/drop now ???


also when i play i notice every one tries to attack the repair driod going around gaurd droid. and attack it while i have wasted stone skin on gaurd droid.

[Zechnophobe]

Long story short, call colossus will make different units depending on which island you are on, it is somewhat random in nature. There are a few other tricks, but that's the first and foremost.

[Hento]

- 1 or 2 tank(s)
- 2 or 3 Damage dealers

Usually tanks are the damage dealers, I always go for knights as warrior and buff them so they have 22-26 damage.

[DGDobrev]

Fairies and Dryads are typical damage dealers. They outweigh the damage your tank will do seriously (and as a warrior you can have way over 4k of each), and they have no retaliation. Besides, their damage is Magic-based, and few enemies have a decent protection against it. Squishy against bosses and Dragons, but in such battles one usually changes the lineup to compensate.

[rollems]

1) Is Royal Snake ok to use as Damage Dealers. Fairies and Dyrads as you said are only Lvl 1/2.
if you see in the screen shot i provided above. what unit shall i replace. i can get 1 green dragon right now.

2) Is there a place where i can add more archmages. i got only 3 from scarlet lost 1. so where do i get more.

3) Is it ok if i stick with this for a while. or shall i change my army. i just got Rusty and Verons opened but all the enemy there says lethal/invincible/very stong.
2 Archmage
1 Green dragon
40 royal snakes (guess i can get more)
25 repair Doids
25 Gaurd Droids

4) when i visit equipments most of them say Race: Human shall i buy them ? my army is mentioned above. will the equipment saying Human help Nuetral ones too ???

[Zechnophobe]

Fairies with Whip and Poisoned dagger are DOOM.

Other good damage dealers are Red Dragons, Royal Snakes and Thorns. (though thorns aren't resurrectable, an almost unnavigable problem.

[DGDobrev]

The race of the item plays no part. It simply shows which race created the item, kinda spicing it up :)

However, regardless of the race, make sure you buy every item in the game and get Neatness lvl 3. For the price of 27 mind runes and 6 magic runes you will lay your hands on a ton of crystals and runes (I've reached results of more than 20 of each in my last mage game). Items of lvl 4 and 5 usually provide a lot of crystals and runes, so be on the lookout for such items later on. Items lvl 1-3 provide only crystals, but those will help you scribe a lot of spells in the spellbook regardless of the class.

[rollems]

How many Green dragon can i get from call colossus. it says depends on leadership so meaning leadership i have left apart from the army i already have?

can call colossus also give Red / black dragon ???

plus i have so many eggs whats the best use i can get from them.

thanks guys for helping so much... and sorry for bothering so much

[DGDobrev]

1) Up to your max leadership, and only if you have a free spot in your army. For example: you have 5000 leadership. 1 green dragon needs 1900 leadership, so you can have 2.

2) Yes. Any lvl 5 unit.

3) Use them to modify what Call Collosus will give you. Save the game and use it. If the troop doesn't meet your criteria, reload, use 1 egg or something and use the scroll again. The output will be different. You can use this trick as many times you wish.

[loreangelicus]

Below is the post on how to get different units from the Call Colossus scroll using eggs:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=11516&page=2&highlight=call+colossus

As for the number of units you get, as the definition states, it depends on your leadership. For example, red dragons require a leadership of 2,000 each. So if you have a leadership score of 6,359 then you could generate 3 red dragons from your Call Colossus scroll. If you happen to have 2,001 leadership then you could only get 1 red dragon from the said scroll. If you have less than 2,000 leadership then you have no chance at all of getting a red dragon from the CC scroll.

[rollems]

Well thanks to all the advise above i have been able to understand game little better. so now i am trying No loss. (did not restart the game but trying from where i was). i assumed it was possible as i am playing Paladin character on normal.
Right now i am stuck at Verona... kitting for map is just not happening for me even with that trick of save pause etc...
i will try to summarize my game. if you guys can point out what to do next to avoid losses or use units better. (i have killed all units/heroes in Debir/Scarlet/Bolo including Hero gaurding treasure in cave.) things left on Rusty are ZagZag and one Archmage gaurding Map. Verona have stolen Debir's wife. killed some enemy saying strong/very strong. Mostly with No losses after 1 Black dragon from Bolo (call of coll..).

My Stats.
Amelie Lvl 16, Leadership 4975
Attack 11 , Def 26 , Intelect 7
Gold: 150K
Rage 26 , Mana 30
Scrolls: Lvl2 Trap/Stone/OilMist/Pain Mirror/Slow
Lvl1 Healing/Helpnessness/Phantom/Avenging Angel/Bless

Units.
1 Black Dragon
1 Green Dragon
22 Paladins
24 Archmages
50 Inquisitors
3 Cyclopes
i swap Cyclopes with Green Dragon. based on situation.

Other Units in castle are Gaurd Droids/Repair Droids/royal snakes/polar bear.
and lots spider/snake/thorns eggs


so basically what way to proceed? what tech to focus and how to use the units i have even better.? what area i am lacking? how to kill those lethal units gaurding maps.

Edit: i am also running short on Ruins (Mind specially). though i have neatness Lvl1

[DGDobrev]

Neatness level 1 will not help you get runes. You need lvl 3 to effectively break the lvl 4-5 items.

[Metathron]

Neatness level 1 will not help you get runes. You need lvl 3 to effectively break the lvl 4-5 items.

Do you get runes by breaking level 4? I think I recall getting only crystals. Or if you do get runes, perhaps it's rare.

[rollems]

well i dont think i can get Lvl3 neatness now. can you also provide tips on Units and what next to focus. like i was thinking updgrading Heal to Lvl2. or go another path?
am i ok with these units for a while?

[DGDobrev]

@metathron

You get runes by breaking lvl 4 and 5 items only. That requires lvl 2 neatness to break lvl 4 items and lvl 3 for lvl 5 items. However, although it doesn't seem entirely plausible, I found that having lvl 3 increases the number of runes you get from lvl 4-5 items (rather than getting 2, I got 3 of a kind from certain items).

You should also be aware that items that are subject to upgrading usually provide only crystals even if they end up on lvl 4 or 5. Same goes for the new compound items we get from the gift bag.

@rollems

Well, I don't think you're lacking anything right now. You have inquisitors to ress your lvl 5 units (save for the cyclops), paladins to ress your inquisitors and tank. Getting a target spell will help greatly, as it will allow you to use your tanking stack (the paladins) more often as a pure tank (since you have both them and the inquisitors for resurrection).

If you feel like you can improve something or that any of your dragons is a serious subject to multiple attacks and is close to dying or dies somewhat often, swap it with royal snakes and you will be just fine.

As for the healing, I'd upgrade distortion before order magic. Soon, as the game progresses, you will find better lvl 1-4 units, and you may want to drop the lvl 5 units.

[tetleytea]

I tried the Neatness 3, and I never made the runes back. And I did buy most of the magic items I saw. I think what I'm doing going forward (if I keep playing) is to stick to Neatness 1 (for the prerequisite), don't bother with Alchemy, and just destroy the crap items for a few extra crystals.

[DGDobrev]

Weird. I always found more than 20 runes of each type thanks to neatness by buying every item in the game (and concentrating on the 4-5 lvl ones). This is why I am so biased towards it. It always worked perfectly for me.

[Zechnophobe]

I didn't get 20 runes of each type, but definitely a large number of them. 2 or 3 from almost every level 4 or 5 item there is. And you also get 4 mana, so it isn't a complete waste even if all you got was your starting runes back.

[rollems]

my Inquisitors are getting targeted the most. even though they are ranged and i keep them far. i am forced to do stone skin at the very start on them. also when my paladin is standing right next to enemy they will walk by it and go attack the Inquisitors.
Mostly it is the bosses(magic)/ griffens ... mmm actually all the ranged and high initiative units.
my army is Cyclopes/paladins/black dragon/archmage/Inquisitors.

so how do i avoid that. i do use traps/wall.. but some times it just becomes impossible.

Tips ??

[tetleytea]

One thing I do is use Inquisitors' res on themselves early on. Once their effectiveness reaches 100%, it's not going to get any better from there. Might as well resurrect now, while they're still alive. Then maybe later the paladins can res the balance. If your paladins are getting slammed, you can similarly res the paladins first, before the paladins do their res. More paladins alive in the first place means more resurrection power for everybody.

If your inqs got so slammed that you have to resort to Phantom, often I will Phantom the Inqs intead of the pals, so I can get the rage bonus. That's one res + ~12 rage per phantom. If you convert that rage to mana (via Rage Eater, your pet dragon, etc.), you can keep casting Phantom all day.

[Zechnophobe]

my Inquisitors are getting targeted the most. even though they are ranged and i keep them far. i am forced to do stone skin at the very start on them. also when my paladin is standing right next to enemy they will walk by it and go attack the Inquisitors.
Mostly it is the bosses(magic)/ griffens ... mmm actually all the ranged and high initiative units.
my army is Cyclopes/paladins/black dragon/archmage/Inquisitors.

so how do i avoid that. i do use traps/wall.. but some times it just becomes impossible.

Tips ??
For that lineup have you considered... putting your inquisitors in your reserve?

One of the things you learn when you try doing a No Loss run through is that if a unit is constantly dying maybe you should just not use it anymore. If the inquisitors are using their rezz ability, mainly on themselves... maybe it is time to switch them out for Green Dragons or something.

[DGDobrev]

Good advice. Or at least, swap them for Demonologists. They can ress as well and have twice as much health. Inquisitors have only 70, which is kinda low for a no-loss run.

[rollems]

^^Yes i have.
i have 1 green dragon too to use. the problem is then my archmage gets targetted by all.
i guess i should have asked the question. like what strategy to use when all enemy is always focussing on your weakest unit. (and there will always be one weakest guy)

hmm.. Demonologists... well i have not found them yet :(

[Zechnophobe]

Well, a few thoughts. If all your units have 600+ HP, then you don't have a 'weakest' unit for them to pile on (per se).

Target spell is about the best answer, but any flying tank (that can fly in the face of enemy archers) can also help.

If you have Summon phoenix, that can lock down magic damage dealing stacks(or fire ones) quite effectively (like priests, beholders, etc).

Put your weak archer against a wall, and wall of stone away all the spaces next to it. This is another good way to keep a stack alive.

Summon a phantom of a stack to harass an opponent. phantoms are considered 'weak' by the AI a lot of the time, and will often draw a lot of fire.

Hope that helps a bit.

[rollems]

hmmm yeah it helps. will try using the tips you provided.

[rollems]

my current army is
2 black , 4 green dragons , 6 Trolls , pack of paladins and archmages.
the problem is my paladin do not see lot of fight though they are most buffed due to some items i have. but still want to use them.
thinking of droping trolls and use horesman as damage dealers. or shall i use knights.
if not horseman or knight what other damage dealer you would suggest.

[rollems]

Which companion to use with Paladin character. my army is mainly humans with some Lvl5 neutral characters like B/G dragon and troll. i swap dragons out for inquisitor and knights depending on enemy units. my human units are positive or good morale right now. lvl28 right now.
i currently have Moro-dark. for attack bonus. or you suggest something else?

[rollems]

^^ anyone on companion ?

[Metathron]

Well, what are you looking for? The companions are very different from one another and cater to different builds. Have you checked out the KBAP Info thread? There's rather detailed info on each there.

[rollems]

yes i have seen the KBap info.
i have have access to all companion except Gaudi.
my character is paladin hero, my current army is all human with drgaon support. little griffin/troll use also. so i am kinda confused which one to go with, as none of them help me. so as of now went for moro dark for +3 attack.
so am i ok doing this ? shall i later switch to gaudi ? will all human army fail later game making me move to black night stuff, where moro dark will help better ?

[ckdamascus]

I worried about the same thing when I played my impossible no-loss (or low loss :) ) games.

Good news is, I was able to go no-loss until baal (bleh, 52 casualties) using NO undead as a Warrior Class. I'm trying to avoid using the usual "boring" Black Knight combo to beat bosses. :)

Paladins, Elves, Hunters, Royal Griffins (for show), and Bowmen. Yes, bowmen. The little guys in blue suits.

The irony is, they weren't part of the 52 casualties. :) I only lost 2 royal griffins and 49 hunters. :(

However, I specifically went for a 100% critical hit build for all the archers, which required me to use Trigger and quite a few specific bow items. It also required the gift mod's black bandage.

You can actually buy a lot of human army guys right before the last battle. It almost seems like the game was supposedly designed to allow for a human army to win since they have a lot of physical resistances.

[rollems]

hmm bowmen/hunters sounds interesting.. probabaly will try it in my next run.
right now i am owning everything using. all dragon army supported by inquisitor , paladins , black knights. with Moro dark. focusing on high morale for all. with level 3 onslaught and morale 2/3 on dragons i just start hitting every thing on first move itself. use haste to move paladins/black nights forward. second round use special abilities of dragons and start hitting with stone skin paladins/black knights. almost all battles are over in 3/4 rounds.
vs demon/undead based army phantom my high morale inquisitor, and watch the fun.
game is almost over. :D