BF109 K4 vs P-51 D 5

[siteseeker]

been playing a lot of CTA to get the upgraded P-51 D with 10 HVAR rockets and finally got it last night.... needless to say that it takes a lot of missions to score 50 kills in a P-51 playing with better players than myself :) so i've been playing CTA and S using the P-51 almost exclusively for several days now.

later in the evening, i joined a TB and used the 109 K4 which i have flown with great success however, i couldn't fly it for nothing... it wouldn't turn to get out of it's own way... must have been shot down 15 times and didn't even score a single kill :confused:

before i got the upgraded P-51, the K4 was my favorite plane... but now it's not worth flying.

i know that it could be me being used to one plane...

[dkwookie]

I can't fly any of those bf 109s. In arcade they are deathtraps. Is the k4 the tripple cannon one? That's not a bad anti bomber interceptor but if you get fighter cover with spitfires in the game you can forget it

[siteseeker]

2 machine guns... 2 20 mm cannons... 1 30 mm cannon... i can't survive in Sim or Realistic so i stick with arcade... i was doing good with any of the 109's but now, i can't fly it... it's like the pre patch P-51

[dkwookie]

The only one I would go near is the e3. It's the bog stanadard one but only one I feel has any kind of turning power. Those yellow tips are like red flag to a bull with spit pilots though

[siteseeker]

the odd thing is that other 109's easily outturn and out climb me and shoot me out of the sky... no clue what gives.

[F14 TOMCAT 204]

too bad the P51 only works on arcade (sorta) turns like a flying brick in realistic >_<

[xX-SiLeNcE-Xx]

I love the K4, but it doesn't work very well for 1v1. More of a suprise the enemy before they seee you type of plane.

[lost cause]

The K4 works a hell of a lot better in sim than arcade, and the 51 works a hell of a lot better in arcade than sim. I use the K-4 frequently and can fly it rather well. It's fast and turns good if at the right speed and you use flaps and rudder. Of course, too much rudder and you stall. It's not good 1 v 1 because it's not the best turning plane. But it definately turns good enough to get a squirt in on an ususpecting player who is involved in a fight already, and with it's excellent guns, that's all you need. I've gotten three triple kills with it. Bang, bang, bang on a snake train!!!!! Just make sure you have the sensitivitys all the way up. This thing will turn with full elevator.

And I agree you should stick to a plane or two. Common sense dictates that countinually switching aircraft is like a jack of all trades, but master of none.

[FOZ_1983]

too bad the P51 only works on arcade (sorta) turns like a flying brick in realistic >_<

Mate it turns like a flying freight train on arcade to!! its crap :(

Though in free flight she's great to fly.

[AV 1611]

Indeed :(

[Robotic Pope]

too bad the P51 only works on arcade (sorta) turns like a flying brick in realistic >_<

Foz is right. The P-51D actually flies best in sim thanks to the use of combat flaps. People keep going on though about how bad it turns, sure its should be better, but know where near a La or spitfires turn ability. I think its the overall lack of speed that is the far bigger problem for the mustang. It looses speed faaaar to easily, even after a dive to pick up momentum it will dissapear in no time at all once you level out. Makes BnZ with it much more difficult than it should be.

[siteseeker]

well i didn't know until last night that it was me... kind of. i had been playing with the sensitivity settings and thought that it affected the movement of the controller... wrong. it seems to only affect the plane... so now i'm back to full settings and can get these planes to turn like they should.. i know, i know... but i'm still a noob =)

[STINGERSIX78]

use the engine-power of the K-4.
the best bnz-fighter in sim games.

[gbtstr]

I've noticed in arcade games, if you stand on the rudder, it will help you get around a turn much faster. You can't stall or spin anyway, so just play on those rudder pedals all day and swing the nose around faster. Planes all turn like crap in arcade, so the rudder is key.

The K-4 does alright in realistic. It is the fastest of the piston-engined birds, only the La-7 can catch it down low. Perfect for BnZ, it turns well enough, too. BnZ won't get you a lot of kills until you get good at shooting, but it will keep you around longer. I had a K/D 3:1 last night - and that one was only because I hit my victim's burning wreckage after a head-on pass. I did very little turning, unless I was well away from the furball, or chasing someone hell-bent on another target. If a Spit was engaging me, I would go head-to-head, and then blow through while he turned behind me. By the time he got around, I'd be well out of range.

Mustang, unfortunately, is garbage in any fighter vs fighter combat because you have no strengths to make up for your multitude of weaknesses.

[F14 TOMCAT 204]

Mustang looks reeeeally pretty though lol XD i wish the B-17 had a chrome finish like they did in the pacific, they would look great in formation :D

[FOZ_1983]

Mustang looks reeeeally pretty though lol XD i wish the B-17 had a chrome finish like they did in the pacific, they would look great in formation :D

The B17's also had the chrome finish over here in Europe :D only the later models though. I prefer the green though, looks more rough etc which is suitable for the B17 :D

[F14 TOMCAT 204]

true it makes it look a little cooler with the OD green camo, after all chrome finishes in sim would be like shining a mirror into the other pilots eyes :P

[Panzergranate]

The Bf-109 K-4 is the up armoured and therefore heavier version built for the sole purpose of attacking the "Vier Mots" (B-17 and B-24 bombers). It isn't a dogfighter.

The Bf-109 F-4, G-2 and G-10 are purpose bulit dogfighters, with the G-10 being the best as it is the lightest, fastest and most maneuverable of the bunch. Also a stable gun platform. It would have been nice if they'd given us the 30mm. cannon armed version or the 30mm. and 20mm. armed version.

The G-6 is the all rounder, having the 3 x 30mm. cannons and 2 x 13mm. HMGs.

The G-10 can also out turn the Spitfire.

The only serious choices are the G-6 and the G-10 for simulator mode with the G-10 being even easier to fly without freaking out than the La-5 or La-7.

All the things that the G-6 has problems doing the G-10 does easily and has a faster roll rate.

The P-51 isn't that easy a kill if in the right hands. I've had easy kills of Spitfires, I-16s, I-153s and Hurricanes flown by rookies and novices in all modes, so it is the player that can make an aircraft a deathtrap or not.

Being an easy kill for a Bf-110 C-4 in a Team Battle doesn't really say much for an I-16 player does it??

[FOZ_1983]

The Bf-109 K-4 is the up armoured and therefore heavier version built for the sole purpose of attacking the "Vier Mots" (B-17 and B-24 bombers). It isn't a dogfighter.

The Bf-109 F-4, G-2 and G-10 are purpose bulit dogfighters, with the G-10 being the best as it is the lightest, fastest and most maneuverable of the bunch. Also a stable gun platform. It would have been nice if they'd given us the 30mm. cannon armed version or the 30mm. and 20mm. armed version.

The G-6 is the all rounder, having the 3 x 30mm. cannons and 2 x 13mm. HMGs.

The G-10 can also out turn the Spitfire.

The only serious choices are the G-6 and the G-10 for simulator mode with the G-10 being even easier to fly without freaking out than the La-5 or La-7.

All the things that the G-6 has problems doing the G-10 does easily and has a faster roll rate.

The P-51 isn't that easy a kill if in the right hands. I've had easy kills of Spitfires, I-16s, I-153s and Hurricanes flown by rookies and novices in all modes, so it is the player that can make an aircraft a deathtrap or not.

Being an easy kill for a Bf-110 C-4 in a Team Battle doesn't really say much for an I-16 player does it??

In arcade is doesnt really matter. I was playing with a few guys from here in free flight last night and it was on arcade which i never ever play. I admit that once on the tarmac the planes would negotiate the taxi way etc with ease turning so well on the ground, it was great to be able to do that without a struggle like on realistic/sim.

But in the air?

A JOKE!!!

My Hurricane was pushing 650MPH!! that is absolutely rediculous. With WEP enabled it was just going into warp speed and whizzing past one of the other players who was in a 109G.

I honestly dont know how anyone can come on here and say that planes in arcade perform as well as they would be expected to. It just doesnt happen.

Granted though i hold my hand up and say at least a couple of the planes in arcade must act extremely well and how they should, but only because the whole playing field has been set to their level.

The stats for the aircraft in arcade are not to be listened to because they are to far from the truth, the yare ridiculous as i've said.


NOW BEFORE any of you arcade players flame me i did not once say your game mode was bad and its shit etc and you should try sim etc, im just saying the planes dont peform how they should. So lay off my back with that one please :) lol. Cheers fella's

And to the arcade guys i was having the free flight with last night - great few games cheers, it was good fun. Hopefully catch some of you online again soon.

[lost cause]

I played with someone from this forum a couple weeks ago, I forgot who it was, and they were using the 51D in dogfight and did really well with it. In my experience with it, you gotta stay off the rudder or it will stall out badly and you gotta keep up the speed.

I'm going to try out the 109G-10 tonight. I used it in arcade when I played arcade and it did well. I haven't tried it in sim yet but have used the F-4, G-6, and K-4. The F is very manuverable and pretty good, but is weak in the guns. The G-6 is heavy and pretty much flies like a tank to me, but has great guns. The K-4 I like to fly. It is very stable, fast, and has great guns. But it is not the best turner. Every plane has a weakness.

A lot of planes act similiar in arcade as they do in sim, but everything is more exaggerated. The 51 stalls out in arcade too, but it just hangs there in the sky and doesn't respond for a few seconds, whereas in sim it goes into a spin. Same with lots of other planes. Fast planes (K-4, all the FW's, LA7) are fast in arcade as well. The Hurri might go 650, but faster planes go way off the scale and still easily outrun it.

The arcade in this game is still tons better than any other arcade I've played.
I don't think it's degrading to a pilot or reflects on his ability. Sim just takes practise that some pilots are unwilling to put in, for whatever reason.

[f1rebrand]

The arcade in this game is still tons better than any other arcade I've played.
I don't think it's degrading to a pilot or reflects on his ability. Sim just takes practise that some pilots are unwilling to put in, for whatever reason.

Well said.

[condorz38]

I'm sorry but the G-10 just doesn't get it. The G-6 flies better, and hits harder. The G-2 flies, but doesn't hit as hard as the 6, I can smoke planes but not kill them. I have done several unscientific tests in the training missions, using A H#-111 with a rookie pilot (1 only) and flown all the aircraft against him. The fastest shoot down was with a K-4 (21 seconds) that was repeatable time and again. The second best was the g-6 (23 seconds). The G-10 doesn't turn well enough, or hit hard enough to justify using it.

[kozzm0]

later in the evening, i joined a TB and used the 109 K4 which i have flown with great success however, i couldn't fly it for nothing... it wouldn't turn to get out of it's own way... must have been shot down 15 times and didn't even score a single kill :confused:

before i got the upgraded P-51, the K4 was my favorite plane... but now it's not worth flying.

i know that it could be me being used to one plane...

A lot of the best German aces would agree with you about the later 109's. Some of them preferred the F4 all the way through the war, and when the Luftwaffe upgraded their planes, they would keep an f4 or two in the hangar just in case they needed it. The K4 doesn't turn cause it's meant more as an interceptor. To fly fast and knock down bombers.

The p51 is designed as an escort and attack plane, so they're pretty similar. Their air-to-air mode is mostly running battles centered around moving bombers, instead of fixed dogfights. Both are pretty fast.

Sometimes when I want to get a bunch of kills in a team battle I'll use an f4 and set the elevator to 3 1/2 notches under. It turns almost like a lavochkin, and the aiming is extremely smooth, it doesn't jump around every time you move the stick. Only one cannon, but you don't need more than one when it aims good. Light plane, not very fast though.

You could also use the g6 which is as well-armed as the k4 but can turn. Unfortunately its aim is terrible when it's turning.

[STINGERSIX78]

last night ive many success with the k-4 again and a great k/d-ratio. why i should outturn a spit, if i can hit them for one time hard, get enough distance to prevent a counter-attack and bring me in position for the next bnz ?
if i doing that right, their only chance is a nose-to-nose situation.
and then the k-4 has the advantage of firepower.

but sometimes, i try to outturn a spit,la,hurri, etc., in hope, that the enemy makes a mistake.
bad choice...
^^
some rules for using the BF109 k-4 :

1. take your time
2. be yourself
3. choose your target while bnz wisely
4. prevent climbing if there is another another enemy near u
5. no more than 90° while a bnz attack to prevent a lack of speed
6. dont waste wep, after useing it for 10min, u will loose ca.50km/h
7. aim steady
8. shoot in burst