Why do we need the patch?

[condorz38]

I have played this game in all three modes since it came out, and eagerly await the patch. But, it is fun to play as is; sure a lot of kills do not register and upset me, but a lot of kills I don't think are mine register also. Yes, it would be nice if many things were fixed, but even without a fix, you can have a lot of fun playing. Moaning that it will only be fun after the patch cheats you of the fun you can have now. Sure, some kills are lost and you feel cheated, but others are awarded and you feel good about it. Enjoy the game for what it is, and consider the patch a bonus. Of course, I am somewhat biased, since I do not use the cockpit mode, since I cannot see too well in that version. I think if you play honorably, no kamikaze and try to accomplish the objective, blow up targets in strike, capture the airfield in CTA, and shoot down planes in DM and TDM you can have a lot of fun without the patch. Personally, I love the game (the only one I play online much) and feel it is one of the best games I have played.

[FOZ_1983]

The patch addresses alot of the issues thats why we want it :( yes the games fun and i can understand what your saying.

But when i purchased the game, their was a huge sticker on the cover that said "works excellently with the saitek av8r joystick" or words to that effect. So i buy this joystick that works so great because i really enjoy landing/take off and enjoying the flying.

I get this joystick and find that theirs no brakes. So when im on the runway.....i cant stop unless i have 2 miles of runway and alot of ammo to spare to help me stop.

Now do you se why the patch is needed?? lol


Also the P51 - One of he most iconic aircraft of WW2 (Hurricane akes top spot ;) ) famous for escorting bombers deep into enemy territory and fending off enemy fighters, and for its fast speed.......

in this game it couldnt escort a squadron of sopwith camels!! the P51 NEEDS THE ESCORT!! hahaha. This is another thing the patch fixes, because so many enjoy this plane, she's a beauty.


I've just amed two things....

i think they warrant the urgent need for the patch.


:D

[Robotic Pope]

Oh good, another patch thread. I must apologise first for my rant here, flying competetive games tonight wasn't fun and has angered me again. Me, Droux and Foz had to switch to just free flighting again to cool off.

I guess it could be fun if you like flying endless circle fights. Flying the Komet in free flight tonight reminded me of what a blackout really is like in this game, and how much of a difference it would make to the online play. I also hate getting fake kills almost just as much as not getting given one when I have clearly shot someone down. Tonight I had two cases of I had just died and hadn't fired a single bullet in minutes. While i'm waiting to respawn I get given a kill for shooting down someone I was not even close to on the map. How the F... does that happen? And I just feel so embaresed when I have had a guy chasing me for 3 minutes plus and he finaly gets me going down, with two black wings, bright red fusalage and no engine. He is still hitting me as I go in, seconds later, guess what "Robotic Pope has Crashed". I'm sick of apologising to people for this games incompetance and the developers silence.

[gbtstr]

I'm ok with the scoring system as-is. It ain't perfect, but I don't think I'd rather have the new and improved version in the patch. I'd rather have overly strict kill criteria than overly lenient.

My biggest hope for the patch is for it to fix performance issues of the aircraft.

The oft-mentioned Mustang is not unflyable, but it's lacking in performance to the point of relegating it to bomber-interceptor, or ground-attack duty in the online arena. (I know a few brave souls fly the Stang regularly, but they are a definite minority.) What a waste for one of the best fighters of the war. Also, I really like the Jug (I'd prefer the Razorbacks for looks, but oh well). It is not Mustang-bad, but suffers from poor turning and, most inaccurately, has piss-poor acceleration, so-so roll rate, and a lousy top speed.

Basically, some of the flight models leave you no outs in combat if you don't go up against a bomber, or a fighter with little or no SA. Therefore, they are relatively useless online. The P-47 can't turn like a Spitfire - no problems there. But, if I lower the nose, I ought to dive like a brick in afterburner and leave that Spit (or anybody except maybe a 262 or Komet) comfortably behind. This happens not so much.

A little while back, I barely outran an La-5 in a Dora-9. After attacking the La-5 in a dive and laying on the WEP the entire time (little to no turning on my part, so I bled little speed) I was barely increasing separation between us in the ensuing climb-out. Finally, he gave up the chase. But, I had to hold a particular climb attitude to have a meager speed advantage - slightly higher or lower and the La-5 closed the distance rather quickly. Now, I don't know how the La-5 should perform, but I'm pretty sure a D-9 should leave almost any pursuer in the dust with great speed, acceleration and climb performance. So, why was the La-5 chewing on my elevators on the way out?

That's the stuff I'd most like to see fixed in the patch.

[lost cause]

The game is nowhere near perfect and never will be. It's a game!! The patch has merely corrected some of the problems the game had and does make it more enjoyable. The aircraft physics leave a lot to be desired in either case. The two things the patch has REALLY fixed is the ability to get a platinum trophy and the dead zone. From what I read, I don't know if it will fix the dead zone on the 360. But with the MUCH reduced requirements for unlocks, it gives the player a reachable goal. A lot more fun!! At least for me.

[Riceball]

American planes. The others are just boring to me. Sorry.

[InfiniteStates]

Great OP - we're signing from the same hymn sheet :)

A lot of the issues mentioned in this thread aren't going to be fixed by the patch anyway... Sorry :(

[FOZ_1983]

Great OP - we're signing from the same hymn sheet :)

A lot of the issues mentioned in this thread aren't going to be fixed by the patch anyway... Sorry :(

The scoring being FUBAR i can handle, i've found just filling them with lead helps. Though i must admit i dont fly in combat anymore due to many of the issues just runing it for me slightly. I now only fly "free flight" with a few of the other forum regulars.

As long as the joystick braking issue and the P51/47 and FW190 are fixed then im happy. Even if the above planes are not fixed i dont mind to much (though others will) but its the joystick thats my main concern because i forked out alot of money on it because they told me it worked fine when clearly it does not.

Fix the brake - im happy :D

[InfiniteStates]

You should be happy then :) I think the P51 reverts to broken if you use a custom layout, and I gather MS is the opposing force to deadzone configuration, but other than that, you should be enjoying it. If...and when...

But some people sound like they're setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Houndstone Hawk]

American planes. The others are just boring to me. Sorry.

What did you expect from a Russian developed WWII flight game based around the IL-2 Sturmovik & focusing largely on the battles over Britain & Stalingrad??? :rolleyes:

[FOZ_1983]

What did you expect from a Russian developed WWII flight game based around the IL-2 Sturmovik & focusing largely on the battles over Britain & Stalingrad??? :rolleyes:

A bit of proffesionalism would of been nice? Ok dont make the P51 historically accurate, and if your russian and want to make the russian planes better then fine so be it...but at least give the P51 a fighting chance! As it is the LA5/7 are superoir in dogfights. High up, low down, medium, you name it they are good.

Im not saying they should of made the P51 the best fighter in the game, but they should of at least made it as good as the spit.

I can appreciate it takes alot of work to do these things, so for the sake of time why not just give all the spitfire MkXVI's abilities to the P51. Granted its not accurate but its got the basics - speed, merlin engine, sound, ability to turn, rather than the abysmal stats it has at the mo.

IL2 series thrives on accuracy supposedly, yet this game which is blessed with the name....is full of innacuracies.


The patch would just put alot of minds at rest and let us enjoy the game more :D

This was not a rant or complaint btw, just me sharing my opinion.

[markyboyacebassist]

the scoring being fubar i can handle, i've found just filling them with lead helps. Though i must admit i dont fly in combat anymore due to many of the issues just runing it for me slightly. I now only fly "free flight" with a few of the other forum regulars.

As long as the joystick braking issue and the p51/47 and fw190 are fixed then im happy. Even if the above planes are not fixed i dont mind to much (though others will) but its the joystick thats my main concern because i forked out alot of money on it because they told me it worked fine when clearly it does not.

Fix the brake - im happy :d

happy days!

[FOZ_1983]

Awesome pic :D

The mighty hurricane at its best :)

[Yakoff]

Even more important to me than the lack of brakes, is the AV8R dead zone. Trying to get the aircraft steady so you can hit the trim button is brutal.

[IiI GUNNY IiI]

If maybe WE ALL BITCHED without having the ez to please people running into brag on the game we might have our update already,but maybe not I don`t think anyone cares if we are happy or not.Heres the thing its not the game its the promise .The game is a good game but,it has problems and we were told MONTHS ago there would be a patch in just weeks.So for all of you that don`t mind being lie too good for you but for the rest of us WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN PATCH.

[FOZ_1983]

Gunny why do we all need to bitch? Anton isnt here to see the bitching so its just falling on deaf ears. The patch was done/finished/complete and went to MS for certification, this much we know 100% its the following parts that were unsure about. Whether MS still have it or they sent it back..we dont know, and we ant find out.

If you want to go to MS HQ and ask then by all means be my guest, but im pretty sure they'll just laugh at you.

Stop complaining about the lack of a patch (everyone) and just carry on playing the game as you did. Your all forum regulars so will know straight away as soon as any news becomes avaliable.

Sorry if the above paragraph seems harsh or straight to the point but enoughs enough with the bitching. We'll all know soon enough about whats going on, one way or another.

[stealth finger]

Even more important to me than the lack of brakes, is the AV8R dead zone. Trying to get the aircraft steady so you can hit the trim button is brutal.

Unfortunatly thats coded into the xbox itself. No amount of patches can fix it unless MS do.

[FOZ_1983]

Unfortunatly thats coded into the xbox itself. No amount of patches can fix it unless MS do.

Your absolutely right. It sucks really. Pretty shitty on MS part

[Sandylowlead]

I have played this game in all three modes since it came out, and eagerly await the patch. But, it is fun to play as is; sure a lot of kills do not register and upset me, but a lot of kills I don't think are mine register also. Yes, it would be nice if many things were fixed, but even without a fix, you can have a lot of fun playing. Moaning that it will only be fun after the patch cheats you of the fun you can have now. Sure, some kills are lost and you feel cheated, but others are awarded and you feel good about it. Enjoy the game for what it is, and consider the patch a bonus. Of course, I am somewhat biased, since I do not use the cockpit mode, since I cannot see too well in that version. I think if you play honorably, no kamikaze and try to accomplish the objective, blow up targets in strike, capture the airfield in CTA, and shoot down planes in DM and TDM you can have a lot of fun without the patch. Personally, I love the game (the only one I play online much) and feel it is one of the best games I have played.

You are a insult to the intelligence of man. Please never post again

[FOZ_1983]

You are a insult to the intelligence of man. Please never post again

Bit harsh? He was only venting his opinion of the game etc. Cut him a little slack haha, he's not been here as long as the rest of us so he's not had the ups and downs we've all had prior to release. :rolleyes:




Show me the way to go home...... coz im tired and i want to go to bed...... i had a little drink about an hour ago and its gone straight to my head......


No idea where that came from :P

[InfiniteStates]

So for all of you that don`t mind being lie too good for you but for the rest of us WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN PATCH.
Dude, we're all lied to all the time by businesses and marketing. And this is no different. All we can do is make do with what's available, and if it gets better - bonus. Your alpha-male go get 'em attitude, while great in other walks of life, is just causing you frustration and disappointment in this situation.

It's not the first time, and it won't be the last. But I fully sympathise with the XBox community - especially as you had the potential to be the much bigger community.

[Houndstone Hawk]

You are a insult to the intelligence of man. Please never post again


LOL!!!!! From the words of someone who was banned for childishly starting a thread stating the xbox patch was out.

Little boy; your quote; gift-wrapped & right back at you, after grammar correction !!! :!:

[FOZ_1983]

LOL!!!!! From the words of someone who was banned for childishly starting a thread stating the xbox patch was out.

Little boy; your quote; gift-wrapped & right back at you!!! :!:

lol i wasn't going to go their.

[SEE]

The Xbox community is quite small and everyone has the right to express their opinions on this furum. I would like the patch purely to get more people playing on-line but can live with the game despite its flaws. The fact that so many people still express their views and opinions indicates that the interest in this title remains - I can at least take small comfort in that!

[TRC Subaru]

The Xbox community is quite small and everyone has the right to express their opinions on this furum. I would like the patch purely to get more people playing on-line but can live with the game despite its flaws. The fact that so many people still express their views and opinions indicates that the interest in this title remains - I can at least take small comfort in that!

Good point - :!:
.

[Sandylowlead]

LOL!!!!! From the words of someone who was banned for childishly starting a thread stating the xbox patch was out.

Little boy; your quote; gift-wrapped & right back at you, after grammar correction !!! :!:

you clearly are one dumb nigger

[FOZ_1983]

i am clearly are one dumb piece of trash who enjoys the ban hammer..... c'mon give it to me



Fixed for you.


Enjoy your time away from the forums. Ciao

[House MD 221B]

you clearly are one dumb n****r

Wow, if you're THAT desperate to get banned, why do you sign up in the first place? :) lol

[TRC Subaru]

you clearly are one dumb ******

I believe this is grounds for a permanent ban.

[Houndstone Hawk]

you clearly are one dumb nigger

LMAO!!! :grin::grin: The irony of that is fantastic. Enjoy the ban buddy.

[gbtstr]

Wtfo?

[trk29]

you clearly are one dumb nigger

Third time is a charm.

[lost cause]

If Sandylowlead is allowed back an this forum I'm not comin back. Take it to the bank.

Which leads me to a question. All the man has to do is change his handle and he's right back here and nobody knows. Is that right or wrong?

[SEE]

Abusive comments achieve little other than to discredit the poster!

[Ameriken05]

Gentlemen,
As you can see I am brand new member to this forum, but please allow me to vent my own frustrations on the game. None of this will be new to you veterans, but please allow a man to vent. I greatly anticipated this title because I saw it as finally bringing an accurate, beautiful simulator to a high-performance, multiplayer accessible medium. What do I get? No German cockpits... NO GERMAN COCKPITS!!! I am an American and the P-51 is one of the worst planes in the game. ONE OF THE WORST!!! I go online and can only find a game once every 3 days... ONCE EVERY 3 DAYS!!! So basically once a week I waste time finally finding a simulator dogfight and watch as every plane in the Soviet arsenal out turns, out guns, out climbs, and out dives my country's beloved Mustang, and the EPIC models of the Spitfire... Oh and it makes sense that there aren't ever any German planes, right?

[Ameriken05]

Russian planes are best in world... We make game and show glory to world... American planes like donkeys in sky... look how glorious Soviet planes shoot down all other inferior planes... Spitfire like old woman in cold... German cockpits not worth time... We make many ruble and then pretend internet not work in Russia... Next game be about how we really win Cold War... UL-2 CTYRMABUK GREATEST GAME EVER MADE FOR GLORY OF MAMA RYCCUA!!!

It may not be a significant threat, but I will never buy another game from 1C or 505... unless they make a patch... otherwise amazing game guys!;)

[juz1]

maybe KFC might work on this thread?
________
Easy vape reviews (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/easy-vape)

[FOZ_1983]

Something fishy going on here!! This guy sounds familiar..........

[juz1]

Something fishy going on here!! This guy sounds familiar..........

you mean there's something similar to all the other whining posts that infect 99% of current threads?
________
Vaporgenie vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

[Ameriken05]

Don't get me wrong, I know I am repeating the same things that I have been reading on this forum for the past 6 months waiting for news on a patch. And I know by writing something it will in no shape or form change the facts. But like my original post explained, I just needed to vent. European Air War that was made 15 years ago is better than this game... P-51s could hold their own against MIG-15s!!! If the developers had chosen to put the P-39 Cobra in the game they would have still made it superior to American and British planes even though the model was deemed obsolete by the US in the pre-war era! AHHHHHHH!!!

[gbtstr]

Russian planes are best in world... We make game and show glory to world... American planes like donkeys in sky... look how glorious Soviet planes shoot down all other inferior planes... Spitfire like old woman in cold... German cockpits not worth time... We make many ruble and then pretend internet not work in Russia... Next game be about how we really win Cold War... UL-2 CTYRMABUK GREATEST GAME EVER MADE FOR GLORY OF MAMA RYCCUA!!!

That was pretty good.

[juz1]

blatant racism...



;)
________
SUBARU VIVIO SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Subaru_Vivio)

[Ameriken05]

Can't a guy have a little fun referencing a past era? Besides, Americans are allowed to make these kind of jokes about Europeans because we have a little bit of every country in our blood. What if I said I have Russian friends? No...?

[juz1]

Can't a guy have a little fun referencing a past era? Besides, Americans are allowed to make these kind of jokes about Europeans because we have a little bit of every country in our blood. What if I said I have Russian friends? No...?


its as racist as the kfc ad...your choice
________
How to roll a blunt (http://howtorollablunt.net/)

[Ameriken05]

Yes, making a reference to Cold War Russia rhetoric is just like the KFC comment... Got verbot I start talking like ze Germans... Make the P-51 competitive...

An American Who Feels Left Out of the Fun

[juz1]

in the words of the song "I thought it was gold but it was bronze"

here's hoping for better luck next time...or are the Russki planes uber-sexed on the PC sims?
________
Dodge intrepid esx (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_Intrepid_ESX)

[SEE]

I doubt that the developers intended BOP for consoles to be a title for dedicated Flight SIM fans. Firstly, the game relies on the Raalistic and SIM levels to be unlocked from Arcade level which I suspect was the main target market for consoles. A dedicated flight SIM title would not require SIM or Realistic to be 'unlocked' as these options would be available from boot up. I see this title as an introductoin to flight Sims and, in that respect, it does a pretty good job. The problem is that many of us are SIM enthusiasts and the compromised thinking about the target market has caused a lot of disatisfaction. May be the developers saw BOP for Consoles as a means to extend the SIM market for the PC title and encourage console owners into that market for serious Simming. The devs tried to give everyone a reasonable console game for a wide spectrum of players rather than a serious SIM title for a smaller market. In that respect they succeeded.

[Yakoff]

Russian planes are best in world... We make game and show glory to world... American planes like donkeys in sky... look how glorious Soviet planes shoot down all other inferior planes... Spitfire like old woman in cold... German cockpits not worth time... We make many ruble and then pretend internet not work in Russia... Next game be about how we really win Cold War... UL-2 CTYRMABUK GREATEST GAME EVER MADE FOR GLORY OF MAMA RYCCUA!!!

It may not be a significant threat, but I will never buy another game from 1C or 505... unless they make a patch... otherwise amazing game guys!;)

:lol: That Ruskie shtick was great.....But the picture accompanying it was just wrong, Now if you had posted a pic of two Russian WOMEN kissing, welllll......

[danscirocco]

I doubt that the developers intended BOP for consoles to be a title for dedicated Flight SIM fans. Firstly, the game relies on the Raalistic and SIM leveles to be unlocked from Arcade level which I suspect was the main target market for consoles. A dedicated flight SIM title would not require SIM or Realistic to be 'unlocked' as these options would be available from boot up. I see this title as an introductoin to flight Sims and, in that respect, it does a pretty good job. The problem is that many of us are SIM enthusiasts and the compromised thinking about the target market has caused a lot of disatisfaction. May be the developers saw BOP for Consoles as a means to extend the SIM market for the PC title and encourage console owners into that market for serious Simming. The devs tried to give everyone a reasonable console game for a wide spectrum of players rather than a serious SIM title for a smaller market. In that respect they succeeded.


No disrespect, but if people want to go and play a true simulator, you cant beat the PCs in that area. I dont think theres a need for devs/companys on consoles to compete in that area. I doubt you could even reproduce the pcs simulators on console anyhow. But you look at this and race pro (simbin makers of gtr fame) i have these both and they arent entirely the same as the pc, i would be the first person to say that i would love racepro to be the same as gtr on pcs. Handling and physics i think its compares okay, but in race formats and qualifying and a lot more customisation u just havent got on the consoles.

So yeah they are dumbed down but also cos they want to attract the more casual gamer. I wouldnt go near a flight sim on a pc , i think they are dull and boring cos maybe they are too hard and realistic. After all if i wanted to fly a plane i would go get a license. But i enjoy ww2 air combat games and im enjoying il2 it just seems more emmersive, playable and i can fly it ( i play realistic, sim too hard on a pad) I cant stand ace combat too arcadey, but i appreciate IL2 acting like a semi-sim and thats what keeps me playing it. Its feels authentic yet its pick up n play sort of. Just like race pro!
Okay if i wanted it any more sim like, i would buy a stick and play on sim, but i dont. Not to mention theres just to many good games out on the console to sit hours learning to just take off or press another hundred buttons. Its difficult for devs to not fully satisfy hardcore simmers, but i think its for the best in success for the game.

Suppose my bottomline is i would like Race pro to be a sim like the pc, but for il2 im happy for the sim like experience they have given and its not like the pc. You can obviously see where my interests lie, so devs need to please, or at least try to please both ends of the scale. Dont get me wrong im no arcade game lover, i just like the game to be as authentic as possible without boring the pants off me hence why i like: nba 2k10 over nba live / race pro over forza 3 / il2 over ace combat
Regards

[markyboyacebassist]

No disrespect, but if people want to go and play a true simulator, you cant beat the PCs in that area. I dont think theres a need for devs/companys on consoles to compete in that area. I doubt you could even reproduce the pcs simulators on console anyhow. But you look at this and race pro (simbin makers of gtr fame) i have these both and they arent entirely the same as the pc, i would be the first person to say that i would love racepro to be the same as gtr on pcs. Handling and physics i think its compares okay, but in race formats and qualifying and a lot more customisation u just havent got on the consoles.

So yeah they are dumbed down but also cos they want to attract the more casual gamer. I wouldnt go near a flight sim on a pc , i think they are dull and boring cos maybe they are too hard and realistic. After all if i wanted to fly a plane i would go get a license. But i enjoy ww2 air combat games and im enjoying il2 it just seems more emmersive, playable and i can fly it ( i play realistic, sim too hard on a pad) I cant stand ace combat too arcadey, but i appreciate IL2 acting like a semi-sim and thats what keeps me playing it. Its feels authentic yet its pick up n play sort of. Just like race pro!
Okay if i wanted it any more sim like, i would buy a stick and play on sim, but i dont. Not to mention theres just to many good games out on the console to sit hours learning to just take off or press another hundred buttons. Its difficult for devs to not fully satisfy hardcore simmers, but i think its for the best in success for the game.

Suppose my bottomline is i would like Race pro to be a sim like the pc, but for il2 im happy for the sim like experience they have given and its not like the pc. You can obviously see where my interests lie, so devs need to please, or at least try to please both ends of the scale. Dont get me wrong im no arcade game lover, i just like the game to be as authentic as possible without boring the pants off me hence why i like: nba 2k10 over nba live / race pro over forza 3 / il2 over ace combat
Regards

Thank you for taking the time to post this!!
You have surmised exactly how I feel about the gaming of IL2 BOP on the XBOX 360 ! (it just needs the patch to make it the finished article!)8)8)8)8)8)8)

[Houndstone Hawk]

No disrespect, but if people want to go and play a true simulator, you cant beat the PCs in that area. I dont think theres a need for devs/companys on consoles to compete in that area. I doubt you could even reproduce the pcs simulators on console anyhow. But you look at this and race pro (simbin makers of gtr fame) i have these both and they arent entirely the same as the pc, i would be the first person to say that i would love racepro to be the same as gtr on pcs. Handling and physics i think its compares okay, but in race formats and qualifying and a lot more customisation u just havent got on the consoles.

So yeah they are dumbed down but also cos they want to attract the more casual gamer. I wouldnt go near a flight sim on a pc , i think they are dull and boring cos maybe they are too hard and realistic. After all if i wanted to fly a plane i would go get a license. But i enjoy ww2 air combat games and im enjoying il2 it just seems more emmersive, playable and i can fly it ( i play realistic, sim too hard on a pad) I cant stand ace combat too arcadey, but i appreciate IL2 acting like a semi-sim and thats what keeps me playing it. Its feels authentic yet its pick up n play sort of. Just like race pro!
Okay if i wanted it any more sim like, i would buy a stick and play on sim, but i dont. Not to mention theres just to many good games out on the console to sit hours learning to just take off or press another hundred buttons. Its difficult for devs to not fully satisfy hardcore simmers, but i think its for the best in success for the game.

Suppose my bottomline is i would like Race pro to be a sim like the pc, but for il2 im happy for the sim like experience they have given and its not like the pc. You can obviously see where my interests lie, so devs need to please, or at least try to please both ends of the scale. Dont get me wrong im no arcade game lover, i just like the game to be as authentic as possible without boring the pants off me hence why i like: nba 2k10 over nba live / race pro over forza 3 / il2 over ace combat
Regards

Total disagreement to your views of BOP being 'immersive' & PC flight sims as being largely dull & boring but respect your points & the way you put them across.

IL-2 (proper IL-2), Lock On, Rise of Flight, Battle of Britain etc are titles you would have to include in your description & each one has immersion by the bucket load & as much customizeable playability to suit any aviation enthusiast or indeed gamer. Wanna just taxi around, take off, freefly then land again? you can do that with all the above mentioned PC sims. (Hell, BOP even takes away the landing OPTION by about a few missions in & landings in the single player game are as rare as easter eggs). Tailor each encounter with a simplistic quick mission builder, giving total longevity to the title & finish it all off with the option of a replay facility to view your action? it's all there in all the titles but completely non-present in BOP.
Then there's the gameplay of the above mentioned PC titles. They can all be tuned down to almost blatant arcade shoot em ups with auto this & auto that.
I think the stigma given off by PC flight titles being dull & boring is derived from the microsoft flight sim series (which you would have a good case but I personally find FSX, together with great addons, photoreal scenery of your area & your local airbase in 3D etc, one of the best virtual flight experiences going).
I'm afraid I have never been able to associate BOP with any form of immersion but it's finding a fan base & that's good news. The PC version Wings of Prey is where I'm at now with this series & that is finding it's own fanbase. Everyone's happy.
Before last October though, I was convinced that Birds of Prey was going to steal the title "most realistic & immersive console flight experience" from Over G Fighters but I was very wrong. It's sure pretty & the arcade fun of blasting endless Heinkel after Heinkel outta the sky in seconds flat finds a market but when you mention immersion, that's where we are in healthy disagreement.

I'm also a race fan & have been since the early colin mcrae titles & so GTR series was great fun with total immersive race experiences but IMO Race Pro was a graphical & gameplay disaster with horrendous ai damage detection issues (you could overtake THROUGH the sides of opponents etc). It had the atmosphere of a wake & I think it, along with FORZA 2 & 3, fell long short in realism & feel, of even the TOCA Race Driver series on the last gen machines. :)

[Ameriken05]

I think some of you hit the nail on the head with this. I don't think anyone is debating that flight SIMs on the PC are more in depth and offer more realistic flight models. But in order to run these games anymore you need to invest in a high performance computer which in turn dwindles the market. I think a lot of us had the unrealistic expectation that BOP might somehow bring depth and high performance to the console and thus make it available to a much larger market. Unfortunately they fell somewhat short of this mark, and so despite BOP being an impressive and entertaining game in its own right, one cannot help but notice that it fell far short of its potential. Some of it is limitations of the console but I still believe a lot of it comes from rushing the game to production and skipping corners on design. It seems to be the trend with a lot of games nowadays...

Whatever happened to games like Red Baron, European Air War, Air Warrior, and Luftwaffe commander?

RUSSIAN BUSINESS MODEL: FIRST, STEAL ALL WORLD'S UNDERPANTS, THIRD, PROFIT...

[House MD 221B]

I think some of you hit the nail on the head with this. I don't think anyone is debating that flight SIMs on the PC are more in depth and offer more realistic flight models. But in order to run these games anymore you need to invest in a high performance computer which in turn dwindles the market. I think a lot of us had the unrealistic expectation that BOP might somehow bring depth and high performance to the console and thus make it available to a much larger market. Unfortunately they fell somewhat short of this mark, and so despite BOP being an impressive and entertaining game in its own right, one cannot help but notice that it fell far short of its potential. Some of it is limitations of the console but I still believe a lot of it comes from rushing the game to production and skipping corners on design. It seems to be the trend with a lot of games nowadays...

Whatever happened to games like Red Baron, European Air War, Air Warrior, and Luftwaffe commander?

RUSSIAN BUSINESS MODEL: FIRST, STEAL ALL WORLD'S UNDERPANTS, THIRD, PROFIT...

I'm not gonna get involved in the rest of the thread because I've said my piece more than once. But just wanted to say, bang on the money, I miss the Air Warrior Days :( it wouldn't cut the mustard by today's standards, but by god it was amazing at the time. And no mentally long lists of keys just all done using commands in the escape key :)

[FOZ_1983]

European Air War :D

now that was a game, i loved it! heres a clip i made when i used to play it, naturally in my hurricane lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS92fKZyntk

[Ameriken05]

Of course the graphics are dated on both of these games but what flawless design! 50+ flyable aircraft in the Air Warrior series to include COCKPIT views on ALL planes, even the heavy bombers! On top of this it had an incredible online setting in the form of taking part in historical missions or the amazing free-for-all war mode in which a campaign was ongoing constantly online with players from all over the world! Fighters of all types, bombers of all types, paratroopers, and even tanks! This was over 10 years ago! EAW had breakthrough graphics for the time and a great career interface. BOP reminded me a lot of EAW when it first came out, but again, the older game had the better design, setup, and realism. If anything they should have borrowed the 256 color German cockpits from those games... No excuse...

[House MD 221B]

lets not forget multiple gunners and gunner views, plus bombsights, independant engine management, and an intricate capture system, plus 200+ multiplayer... not even modern PC games can do that these days.

accept for Aces High which is still going I Believe.

[Ameriken05]

It almost makes me cry to think about it... We need to pull some developers out of retirement I think...

[juz1]

could anyone put a ball park monetary figure on the sort of PC one would need to run a decent sim these days...something that would make the most of , say, storm of war, if it ever gets here...leave the multiple monitor set up out of your equation ...just doing some sums for this year;)
________
Grape Ape (http://trichomes.org/marijuana-strains/grape-ape)

[SEE]

It's been a while since I owned a PC but most of the budget PC's will have adequate RAM and Processor speeds but may not be well suited to be upgraded or have adequate graphics chipsets. The fly in the ointment for me has always been the Graphics card. Every time a new and better game comes out you can bet its written for optimum performance using a later Graphics card of a particular type and you end up having to continually replace it or download some sort of bloody 'Patch' (that word again!...) or 'driver'. That's why I bought a console, all games are coded for the same graphics chipset. Best to check the recommended spec for the game you want and make sure your PC meets it or can be upgraded to meet it. Should be fine for 6 months........(eternal pessemist me!) which is why I bought a console...........no worries about 'drivers' and 'patches' or games that don't work........oops! ......I'm out of here before I get shot and dismembered....:rolleyes:

[f1rebrand]

Gotta laugh at the radio chatter. The pilots were terribly proper English gents in those days.

[SEE]

Gotta laugh at the radio chatter. The pilots were terribly proper English gents in those days.


"I say old bean" of course they were proper gents.......most of the pilots were Oxbridge University 'chappies'.......

[FOZ_1983]

EAW was the best flying game i've played by far. Nothing comes close! The campaign was fun and enjoyable, and extremely in depth to! your wingmen grew on you and you tried your best to keep them alive. Then when you return to base from a mission and see the debrief.... :( your wingman is MIA gutted!! He's been with you since 43, and now he's missing. Nobody else to blame but yourself....... THEN!!! 2 months down the line you get a telegram to say he's either been foudn by resistance and is on his way back to the squadron :D or he's a POW :( but still alive :D

A truley superb game. Working up the ranks from a lowly pilot officer....ah the good old days. And co op online to might i add!!!

[Spitfire23]

EAW was the best flying game i've played by far. Nothing comes close! The campaign was fun and enjoyable, and extremely in depth to! your wingmen grew on you and you tried your best to keep them alive. Then when you return to base from a mission and see the debrief.... :( your wingman is MIA gutted!! He's been with you since 43, and now he's missing. Nobody else to blame but yourself....... THEN!!! 2 months down the line you get a telegram to say he's either been foudn by resistance and is on his way back to the squadron :D or he's a POW :( but still alive :D

A truley superb game. Working up the ranks from a lowly pilot officer....ah the good old days. And co op online to might i add!!!

I am extremely ashamed to say i never actually owned that game. from what you have said right there seems like such an in depth experience, which is a hard to come by trait in most videogames today, let alone flight sims. :(

[Houndstone Hawk]

I am extremely ashamed to say i never actually owned that game. from what you have said right there seems like such an in depth experience, which is a hard to come by trait in most videogames today, let alone flight sims. :(


+1!
I keep banging on about the incredible immersion of the BoB & IL-2 Sturmovik titles whilst FOZ's description of EAW sounds bloody incredible & it was onr title that slipped the net for me too. :(

[FOZ_1983]

Honestly mate it was THE flying game back then, it had everything! online you could fly RAF v Luftwaffe.

Its a straight forward fighter sweep for the RAF over france.


So...

you and your guys go for the "full real seting"

You take off rom a base in england and head for france. No time skipping etc, limited fuel - the works its full real. At the same time the other team are taking off from their bases in france and have no idea where your supposed to eb gonig they just have a rough area marked on the map. Anyway as the RAF flying the spits we all take off, and being eager to get into the fight you go full WEP all the way.....

Then just as you get close to where you need to go (a fair bit of time later) theirs this horrible sound and everyhting dies!! You've blown the engine beause of the constant WEP and high speed :(

Your not getting into anyfight. You have to do what you can to crawl how back over the channel :(

Or.....

You make it to the fight and locate a 109, you get on his six and follow him into a turn all guns balzing knwoing that you can out turn him you think he's yours!! BUT... because of the tight turn your pulling you manage to jam every single gun while your firing :( effectively knocking you out of the fight.

[Spitfire23]

Honestly mate it was THE flying game back then, it had everything! online you could fly RAF v Luftwaffe.

Its a straight forward fighter sweep for the RAF over france.


So...

you and your guys go for the "full real seting"

You take off rom a base in england and head for france. No time skipping etc, limited fuel - the works its full real. At the same time the other team are taking off from their bases in france and have no idea where your supposed to eb gonig they just have a rough area marked on the map. Anyway as the RAF flying the spits we all take off, and being eager to get into the fight you go full WEP all the way.....

Then just as you get close to where you need to go (a fair bit of time later) theirs this horrible sound and everyhting dies!! You've blown the engine beause of the constant WEP and high speed :(

Your not getting into anyfight. You have to do what you can to crawl how back over the channel :(

Or.....

You make it to the fight and locate a 109, you get on his six and follow him into a turn all guns balzing knwoing that you can out turn him you think he's yours!! BUT... because of the tight turn your pulling you manage to jam every single gun while your firing :( effectively knocking you out of the fight.

Haha great! Felt like i was in the seat :grin:

[Houndstone Hawk]

Honestly mate it was THE flying game back then, it had everything! online you could fly RAF v Luftwaffe.

Its a straight forward fighter sweep for the RAF over france.


So...

you and your guys go for the "full real seting"

You take off rom a base in england and head for france. No time skipping etc, limited fuel - the works its full real. At the same time the other team are taking off from their bases in france and have no idea where your supposed to eb gonig they just have a rough area marked on the map. Anyway as the RAF flying the spits we all take off, and being eager to get into the fight you go full WEP all the way.....

Then just as you get close to where you need to go (a fair bit of time later) theirs this horrible sound and everyhting dies!! You've blown the engine beause of the constant WEP and high speed :(

Your not getting into anyfight. You have to do what you can to crawl how back over the channel :(

Or.....

You make it to the fight and locate a 109, you get on his six and follow him into a turn all guns balzing knwoing that you can out turn him you think he's yours!! BUT... because of the tight turn your pulling you manage to jam every single gun while your firing :( effectively knocking you out of the fight.

We both have scarily similar wants & desires outta flightsims. I remember thinking that back in the Over G thread ;)

[danscirocco]

i remember EAW played a little i think. Anyone remember "knights of the sky"
i had this on my commodore amiga (before when consoles really took off) i loved it. Suppose i lost interest when they got more realistic (complicated) and when consoles started appearing like the megadrive.

I think my PC sims comment was a little harsh in retrospect, as they can be very immersive like you guys mentioning above, just wouldnt of fancied flying to france (virtually) to then get shot down, when there was no time acceleration lol

Suppose thats why i like IL2, it rekindles those days on my amiga for me, without going for the full works
Dan:)

[Ameriken05]

Yes, an incredible game. I remember how long it took to escort B-17s deep into Germany over various targets. You would get hit by swarm after swarm of Messerschmits or FW-190s and watch helplessly as long smoke trails would spit out of more and more of your bombers' engines. Sometimes they would fall slowly out of formation and you would do your best to protect them until you could do no more. The ultimate moment came when all bombs were released in the midst of a flak storm and you watched your target get carpeted with explosions. The Battle of Britain campaign was simply amazing, taking off and encountering swarms of German bombers. I remember getting into some pretty intense dogfights with their escorts. You only had so much ammo, but with the firepower of that Spitfire... WHAMMO! The radio chatter was amazing, the realism unrivaled (ammo, fuel, wind sheer), the career progression addicting. THAT was a game gentlemen, that was a game...

[AV 1611]

Performance boosts, improved enemy AI... etc: :)

[AV 1611]

I hear you, I am hooked! :)

[FOZ_1983]

What was also good in EAW was the fact you had a very simple command interface and could issue orders quickly and easily. If you were the squadron commander then you could give the whole squadron orders. If you were just a group leader then you could only command your wingmen (red section, geen section etc) or if you were the wingman... you couldnt command anyone. If you were the defending (sometimes attacking) side also like the RAF in the batle of britain or the Luftwaffe in the 43-45 campaign and things were getting heated up you could bring up the command interface and request help.

Depending on where you were sometimes a friendly squadron would come to help. Nothing better than escorting a group of B24's to a target then you get bounced by upto three squadrons (staffle) of 109'2 or 190's and they cause alot of problems. You ask for friendly fighter assistance if any friendlies are in the area on a sweep etc..... then the radio operator replies with "roger, sending more assistance your way now rabbit leader"

As the fight goes on and thnigs are getting crazy.... out of nowhere a squadron of P51's come screaming out of nowhere into the fight and start mixing it up wth the 109's and 190's and help out all they can. EPIC!! a beautiful sight :D They will then stick with you until they get destroyed (unlikely) or they need to break off because of fuel/ammo issues.

Without a doubt the greatest flying game ever.