Red Baron Flight & Combat Training Manual.

[Panzergranate]

Well I said that I'd post this up and I'm not the only Red Baron veteran in the top 5 in ranked team battle on the 360.... am I "Pilechef"??

Notice that the manual teached the reader basics of flying a real aircraft and air combat, not how to play the game.

Red Baron was the original flight combat simulator, back in 1990, and ran on minimal system of at least an AT 286 - 12.5 or NEAT (New Extended AT) 286 -20 or 386 SX 16..... on a 486 DX 66 it was brilliant.

All flight simulators derive from this original Dynamix game by Damon Slye.

Red Baron II was the same engine with vastly improved graphics for the Win 95 era and Red Baron III featured online 60 player dogfights, missions, etc.

In all versions the damage model was by far superior to the IL-2 titles currently available..... for instance an bullet damaged wing strut could fail many minutes after being hit. Players in burning aircraft were given the option of baling out though only German pilots had parachutes, Allied players just plummeted to their doom.

Also customising and personalising of player aircraft was allowed once serious "Ace" status was attained. My SPAD 7 and later SPAD 13 had a white fuselage, black wings and tail.

I've included the light simulator settings page just to show how much more detail it had over the current IL-2 titles..... fancy landing in gale force cross winds anyone?? Changing weather, day / nigh cycle, player navigation by compass, paper maps, storms, etc. were part of the fun (??) of flying outside of combat.

Ground target opportunities varied from moving trains, balloons, factories, rail yards, artillery batteries, etc.

Carrying bombs or "Maroon" rockets not only screwed up aircraft flight characterisics, speed, etc. but also made already dubious structural integrety of some aircraft, dropping each bomb seperately, from each wing rack, altered the balance of the aircraft..... unless one bacame hung up!!

On top of this the AI was deviously clever and in one instance my son blasted away at a Hun 2 seater, watched it apparently spin out control down into a cloud, dived through the cloud to watch the crash and it had disappeared..... on the post mission video playback the AI had pulled a ruse, corrected the spin, once in the cloud, and eluded him.

So read up and learn the black arts of air combat.

[Panzergranate]

More pages....

[Panzergranate]

And more pages....

[Panzergranate]

And this is the last of it.....

The actual manual is more of book on WW1 air combat attacched to a computer game and over a hundred pages in size. The fflight instruction parts are just these pages.

The tactics and aerobatics show work not only in Red Baron, but in real life and any air combat simulation current or yet to be created.

It also explains, in priciples of flight, why some folks spin out in BOP simulator mode despite travelling at speed......they're "bellying out" their plane by pulling back on the stick too sharply and screwing with the wing's angle of attack. (Push the stick forward to correct).

[philabong2]

good read - short n sweet -thx m8

for a more thorough look a combat flyind I'd recommend checking out In pursuit. This was posted in another thread that's now sitting on the 10th page of the forum...

downloadable link
http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/inpursuit.pdf

very good stuff in there too
enjoy

[Panzergranate]

Anything that improves my "edge".

[Panzergranate]

There isn't a maneuver mentioned in that link I haven't pulled in BOP arcade mode (most are impossible in the other modes).

I liked the psychology part...... I always start a game with a high, wide, rolling sweeping banking arc, in the direction of the player who is coming in for a head on pass. I do this because I want him to be concerned that he is being set up as a sucker (he is) and chicken out and pull low, so that I can stall turn onto his ass. It hasn't failed so far in the past many dozen goes.

In Battle Stations Pacific (BSP), which has excelent flight models, a friend challenged my teenaged son to a one on one dogfight. My son picked the Brewster F-2A3 Buffalo, the friend went for Zeroes.

To quote the friend, on seeing my son's choice of fighter, remarked, "Why the hell do you want to fly that useless, overweight heap of s**t??"

My son shot him down 7 games to 0, thus proving that overconfidence, coupled with a false belief that the enemy hasn't a chance and not knowing the capabilities of an opposing aircraft is a fatal combination.

My son knew only too well that the Buffalo, despite being underpowered and over weight, is famous for having a higher role rate than and being able to turn inside the Japanese Zero and Oscar. BSP faithfully has the flight model correct for all the aircraft in the game.

I do prefer to fly the "underdogs" in dogfights, whether historically or because of bad flight models, and experiment to see where they could possibly have some advantage.

The Fw-190 A5 isn't that bad and I still manage to make a few kills and survive BOP team and dogfight games without being shot down in arcade since I figured how the German pilots made it turn inside the Allied fighters. Its just adopting tactics that suit a particular aircraft to advantage and steering clear of those that don't.

I've found that both the Fw-190 and the P-51 turn quite nicely in a slip turn, as opposed to a conventional aerolon turn.

[miatar]

have you tried out your tactics in realistic or sim mode?

[Sandylowlead]

good read - short n sweet -thx m8

for a more thorough look a combat flyind I'd recommend checking out In pursuit. This was posted in another thread that's now sitting on the 10th page of the forum...

downloadable link
http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/inpursuit.pdf

very good stuff in there too
enjoy

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll48/Ragenbeef/CatMouse2-1.jpg

[philabong2]

have you tried out your tactics in realistic or sim mode?

dont kno if ur question is directed to me but here I go ;)

yes i have been able to pull evry manoeuver in sim mode. Dont kno if im doin them right but i guess they're close enough. Just remember that all of these arent bulletproof and timing is evrything. For example, the books teaches a series of evasive manouvers. My fav is the one where the enemy is on ur 6: start with a hard 90 deg turn, then pull up steeply, turn into wide barrel rolls, and then into rolling scisors if the guy isnt already in ur sights. So this, if done well will work evrytime. Thing is that if u start doin it a bit too soon, ur givin the enemy a fairly easy target, so again timing, seeing ur opponent, distance and speed judgment is what counts.

Cheers guys

PS: lol @ Sandy

[Panzergranate]

Some (or most) are impossible in sim mode due to the fact that the pilot needs to have an eye on the prey and operate the rudder. Also the flight physics engine freaks the plane out in sim and realistic modes during some rudder / elevator / aerolons combinations no matter how carefully the controls are handled.

For instance, pulling a "Retournment" on a victim requires that the pilot keeps an eye on the victim in order to modify his plane's trajectory so as to end up with a good shooting solution. The true "Immelmann Turn" or "Stall Turn" requires the use of the rudder and elevators plus some opposite aerolon application whilst also watching the prey.

As in simulator mode players cannot operate the rudder and watch victims, and in aircraft without cockpit models, have a reference frame as the the relative orientation of their own plane in relation to the prey's flight path, both these are impossible to pull off, even without the hastles of going into a spin.

In realistic mode, I've managed to pull off a "Retournment", though not as sharply as in arcade mode or in IL-2 games on the PC.

Basically all are easily accomplished in arcade mode, some are doable in realistic mode, though in such a careful and leisurely manner as to make the point of executing them tactically dubious, and in simulator mode, the player is flying with blinkers, most of the time, so hasn't much of a clues as to what is happening.

Most crashes with me, in sim mode, are when I attempt to pull a modest aerobatic stunt and come up against the flight physics in BOP.

I always prefer to fly fighters with a high roll rate, when compared to others, as it comes in really useful for evading incoming fire.

Some aircraft also flat turn better than others, despite having poor turning circles conventionally. The Fw-190 A5 is a lot more responsive on the aerolons and rudder than any of the Spitfires, which is a great advantage in arcade mode but a real headache in realistic and simulator modes until players become used to it.

If playing with the control sensitivity set at 100%, which is what I fly with, the Fw has a 360 Degree roll rate of 2.8 seconds compared to any of the Spitfires best of 4 seconds. Test with Widar Thule have proven that reducing one's control response to 50% increases the Spitfire's roll rate to 5 seconds.

It also flat turns tighter than a Spitfire.

It is far better to practice a steady hand on the controls then to handicap one's aircraft with reduced control sensitivity.

In dogfights it is more important to master the skill of dodging incoming fire first and then learning how to shoot things down second.

[philabong2]

Some (or most) are impossible in sim mode due to the fact that the pilot needs to have an eye on the prey and operate the rudder...



using the aviator layout will prob solve ur problem. Maybe a bit of a hasle to get used to it (not for me tho, i use to play Aeroelite combat academy on PS2 which had almost the exact same layout) but its the best imo cause u can operate all controls seperatly while looking around... no landing brake and zoom for now tho :(


If playing with the control sensitivity set at 100%, ...
It is far better to practice a steady hand on the controls then to handicap one's aircraft with reduced control sensitivity.


totally agree with u there, but the cp is way too sensible too play all aircraft at 100% for me (kudos to u if ur able to do it) so I always tune down the sensivity levels between 50% and 75% for almost evryplane. But when i'll b able to use the flight stick it will be 100% sensivity all the way 4 sure because of the reason u mentionned

[Panzergranate]

Following the prey's movements so as to judge and fine tune a move is key to success, even when attacking a ground target.

In BSM and BSP, players have to hold in the right bumper to follow a target, which they have to first find and lock onto first. This is a real pain when also trying to take a shot.

Some aircraft pull certain maneuvers than others, in all air combat games, and as flight models for a certain type are usually consistant from game to game, players know what to expect.

The Hurricane in BOP flies about the same as the ones in IL-2 and BSP and I can pull the same aerobatics with it in BSP as I do in BOP and IL-2.

Training mode is there to practice in to hone skills and familiarise players with how differently each aircraft flies in arcade, realistic and simulator.

[InfiniteStates]

If playing with the control sensitivity set at 100%, which is what I fly with, the Fw has a 360 Degree roll rate of 2.8 seconds compared to any of the Spitfires best of 4 seconds. Test with Widar Thule have proven that reducing one's control response to 50% increases the Spitfire's roll rate to 5 seconds.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I only adjust elevator sensitivity - not ailerons (sp?). That surely won't affect my roll rate much, if at all?

[philabong2]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I only adjust elevator sensitivity - not ailerons (sp?). That surely won't affect my roll rate much, if at all?

doin the same thing here, some planes I take a notch down but thats it

... and again aviator layout is the best way to go with the control pad imho... pretty much all the best players in sim on psn use it

[Panzergranate]

It is the sharpness of the handling of some aircraft in sim and realistic modes that gives them an edge.

Anything that blunts this compromises its potential.

[InfiniteStates]

I find what compromises potential is constant stalling because I moved the stick 0.5 degrees more than I meant to in the heat of battle. I'll stick to my reduced control pad elevator sensitivity thanks :-P

[Panzergranate]

Perhaps I just have steadier hands than average players. Working with high voltage, in past jobs, so having a steady hand is a matter of survival.

Perhaps riding motorcycles gives me the speed of reactions to fly with everything at 100% maybe. Dodging the tinned vegetable life in rush hour makes a large intence dogfight look pretty mild.

I've notice that a few players also fly RC aircraft, which I used to do, which seems to also encourage fast reactions.

[InfiniteStates]

Dodging the tinned vegetable life in rush hour...
LOL nice phrase... :)

You really do take your life out of your hands doing that, because "vegetable" is wholly apt to probably 80% of drivers :o

[biophil12]

There isn't a maneuver mentioned in that link I haven't pulled in BOP arcade mode (most are impossible in the other modes).

Maybe try using the Russian I-153. I've used it on Realistic and it can handle alot more before it stalls.

Besides, It IS a WWI plane. :P

Anyway, some of these tactics look useful...