Discrepancies to point out

[DGDobrev]

Maybe we should make a tread for those...

First it was the Paladin's improper prayer description, stating the paladin can ress plants and mechs. That is not true.
Then it was the Trapper medal improper description, stating that any unit that is killed by the trap increases the counter. It doesn't. Only enemy and friendly units improve it. No summonings.
Now I see a problem with the Foreman, the dwarven unit. The Miners can go on a strike. So far so good. However, the "Foreman" ability is improperly described.

- The presence of a Foreman alongside the miners (both units in the army) does improve the attack and defense of all miners by 100%.
- When the miners go on a strike (there is such ability), the Foreman gets "infuriated" and improves HIS speed and initiative by 1. In addition to that HIS critical chance temporarily becomes 100% - not the Miners's crit as the Foreman ability improperly describes.

If anyone notices something else, we can make a small compendium that will help other players from getting fooled by the translation.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

It's night from 12am to 3 am. At 3am it becomes morning again, thus you lose the night-time:confused: benefits. For christ sake how could that have been missed? A night that last 3 hours.....:confused:

[supersonu1]

Also 1 more thing with Trapper Medal. It states that killing units increases the counter. It doesn't, only when you kill entire enemy stack the counter increases by 1.

I recommend increasing the requirement for Trapper medal (100,300,700) and count killing(in other words Trapping) any no. of units in a stack. As the main purpose of traps are not to kill enemy units but make them stop in their tracks.

[Elwin]

yeah i killed many many iwth traps bet rarely uts finish blow

[DGDobrev]

Also 1 more thing with Trapper Medal. It states that killing units increases the counter. It doesn't, only when you kill entire enemy stack the counter increases by 1.

I recommend increasing the requirement for Trapper medal (100,300,700) and count killing(in other words Trapping) any no. of units in a stack. As the main purpose of traps are not to kill enemy units but make them stop in their tracks.

That will not be a good idea :) I can kill 350+ gobots with one trap easily, and I'm still in the early game.

The trap medal is great as it is. Besides, it's so easy to lure the enemy into a trap.

Option 1: Use archmagi's telekinesis ability to put a unit on a trap.
Option 2: Use Emerald dragons' bite ability to draw a unit directly on the trap.
Option 3: Use a weak unit to have a higher level unit attack it, thinking it is an easy kill.
Option 4: Since the AI attacks the nearest unit, make sure there is only one way for the enemy to approach your unit and set a trap there.
Option 5: Use hypnosis and put the enemy into a trap.

Use the spell only when you're certain that the trap will kill the enemy.

There are more ways to trap enemies, but these are the easiest available.

[supersonu1]

That will not be a good idea :) I can kill 350+ gobots with one trap easily, and I'm still in the early game.


Regardless, what we are talking about purpose of traps. And their primary purpose is to stop enemies, not kill them. Here we have discrepancy in their medal requirement.
I have personally used traps hundreds of times till mid game but Only managed to kill 53 complete stacks so far. Also it is becoming increasingly difficult to kill units through traps as the game progress and Units become more powerful.

I just thought of better requirement. Instead of counting how many units killed through traps, we should count how many time we were able to stop units through traps.

For eg. Your trap spell does 150-200 damage and you encounter a Level 5 unit with 800 health. So you start trapping it and you were able to trap it successfully 3 times before killing it. So the trap medal counter should increase by 3 now.

And perhaps we should also slightly increase the trap medal requirement from (10/50/100) to (25/100/250).

[Infiltrator]

Regardless, what we are talking about purpose of traps. And their primary purpose is to stop enemies, not kill them. Here we have discrepancy in their medal requirement.
I have personally used traps hundreds of times till mid game but Only managed to kill 53 complete stacks so far. Also it is becoming increasingly difficult to kill units through traps as the game progress and Units become more powerful.

I just thought of better requirement. Instead of counting how many units killed through traps, we should count how many time we were able to stop units through traps.

For eg. Your trap spell does 150-200 damage and you encounter a Level 5 unit with 800 health. So you start trapping it and you were able to trap it successfully 3 times before killing it. So the trap medal counter should increase by 3 now.

And perhaps we should also slightly increase the trap medal requirement from (10/50/100) to (25/100/250).

Agreed completely with the above, I mentioned this as well before. Let's try and not go in the mentality "it's easy to kill with traps". It's easy, yes, but the PURPOSE of the traps is not to kill, but to stop the enemy.

If you put your traps in order to KILL stacks, then you're DOING IT WRONG on a strategical level, and the game REWARDS you for this. It doesn't make sense, there's no going around it.

[Elwin]

Agree. . i put traps to stop enemy is well i am in verona i used hundred of traps but have 4 kils in it only ....

[DGDobrev]

I am well aware that it will be much easier that way, but in my opinion it will also be unreasonable. The trap medal is doing a superb job and is a very serious tactical asset. As such it must require some dedication to achieve it. Your way is much easier, I grant that. However, if we all get what we want the easy way, we may as well ask the developers to have the game give us no-loss victories every time and have all medals start at lvl 3 right from the start.

On a side note, I found out something funny. If a bronthor gets trapped or is hit by lightning, his spiked armor comes into play, since he cannot directly counter the attack. If there is no unit nearby, nothing happens. If there is en enemy unit, IT will be hit by the bronthor's armor. The same happens to a friendly unit. It was fun seeing the enemy bronthors get trapped and killing 7 enemy foremen who were right beside the trap :)

[Infiltrator]

I am well aware that it will be much easier that way, but in my opinion it will also be unreasonable. The trap medal is doing a superb job and is a very serious tactical asset. As such it must require some dedication to achieve it. Your way is much easier, I grant that.

It's not about easy vs hard. It's about logical vs illogical. Using traps to stop the enemy is the logical thing to do. Killing is not.

The trap medal IS a very serious tactical asset, and nobody is disputing that, however the way to achieve it is not tactical at all, it's completely counter-intuitive and strategically ridiculous.

The easy way can be fixed/balanced easily by making you require to trap more units. For example not 250 like he mentioned, but 750 (or any other higher number). There, it's not easy any more, and it complements the actual logic behind using the trap spell.

[Zhuangzi]

It's not about easy vs hard. It's about logical vs illogical. Using traps to stop the enemy is the logical thing to do. Killing is not.

The trap medal IS a very serious tactical asset, and nobody is disputing that, however the way to achieve it is not tactical at all, it's completely counter-intuitive and strategically ridiculous.

The easy way can be fixed/balanced easily by making you require to trap more units. For example not 250 like he mentioned, but 750 (or any other higher number). There, it's not easy any more, and it complements the actual logic behind using the trap spell.

Yep, I agree. The value of Trap for me (low intellect) is more in slowing the enemy. In fact I don't see the point of upgrading it past level 1, because it does pitiful damage for me. But I am using Trap 1 every time, and I'm not getting a medal for it. :(

[DGDobrev]

Guys, the medals have NO EFFECT on the final scoreline. So you can go without them. I, for one, never get the Battle Alchemy and the Trapper medals with a Warrior or a Paladin. You can easily see that on my screens in the high score thread. As a Mage, I always go for it, since it's a good tool, and the mage is seriously underpowered.

I know it's pretty cool to have all the medals mastered, but some classes are just not that fit for doing it. For example, the mage will have a pretty tough time mastering the Blind Rage medal, since she's low on rage throughout the game and cannot use the high-rage consuming dragon abilities.

[DGDobrev]

I agree that what you guys are proposing is logical, but do you really expect that they will make a patch with your proposal for all the versions (English, Russian, etc.) that have gone out by now?

[supersonu1]

I agree that what you guys are proposing is logical, but do you really expect that they will make a patch with your proposal for all the versions (English, Russian, etc.) that have gone out by now?

Well they are going to make a patch sooner or later to fix all the text discrepancies and bugs(although this game has extremely few bugs. In fact i hadn't encountered any myself) in the game so why not correct the trap medal with that patch also. Nobody is saying that developer should get out a patch asap just to correct the trap medal problem.

[Elwin]

Well in PL version there was many localisation bugs and patch fixing that was released few days after release

[travelingoz]

In all fairness to the DEV's, the Trapper Medal makes complete sense to me. I don't see why you're all calling for a patch :confused:
If you are a "skilled" trapper and are able to "lure" enemies onto the trap, you are duly rewarded for your efforts! I can't see how earning a medal just for using the spell is either fair or fits in with the general theme.
So, if you can't be bothered grafting early game and getting it up a couple of levels when it's dead easy to do, that's your own laziness or lack of cunning. Nothing wrong with the game!

[supersonu1]

If you are a "skilled" trapper and are able to "lure" enemies onto the trap, you are duly rewarded for your efforts!

That just it we are NOT being rewarded for being just luring the enemy to trap. We have to kill the entire stack. You have completely missed the point of the entire thread and I will suggest you should read the posts from beginning.

[Zechnophobe]

Maybe we should make a tread for those...


There are some drums you can get that say "+1 morale to all troops" but only effects human troops.

I'm not sure if it belongs here, but one change between KB:TL and KB:AP is that the circle of light spell (AoE heal) no longer heals black dragons. So that's also a discrepancy, as it were.

[DGDobrev]

Well they are going to make a patch sooner or later to fix all the text discrepancies and bugs(although this game has extremely few bugs. In fact i hadn't encountered any myself) in the game so why not correct the trap medal with that patch also. Nobody is saying that developer should get out a patch asap just to correct the trap medal problem.

Fair enough. But why do you think that this is a problem? It is completely acceptable and conceivable that the designers simply made it like this.

In any case, only time will tell.

[travelingoz]

No Supersonu it is you who can't read! Hover your mouse over the hero display and see what the description of the medal says! "lure the enemy to its fate". I may agree if the battlefield was much larger and had no obstacles on it, however it's not! So the changes you're proposing will require little or no skill at all.
Along with the Grand Strategy Medal, it's one of the only other ones that require any degree of skill to achieve and thus is very satisfying when one does.
What we should be complaining about to the DEV's is the fact that the other 5 or 6 medals require little skill or imagination. Not trying to dumb down one of the ones that do.

[supersonu1]

travelingoz, yes i am well aware of the medal's description and its meaning. But we are talking about the logic behind trap spell. It's main purpose is to stop enemy units not to kill them completely. To kill enemy units we have many many different(and often better) offensive spells. So why would i want to use an inferior(in damage) spell to kill enemy stacks?

So we use trap
- To stop a fast moving unit so that it cannot reach us.
- Or towards end of battle to delay the last enemy stack by a turn or two so we get enough time to heal/resurrect our unit, Dig up the treasures etc.

If you are using traps primarily to kill enemy stacks then you are doing it wrong. In fact we all are doing it wrong becuase it is the only way to get that medal.

[DGDobrev]

In any case, the trap can be used to stop the enemies' advance, so you lose nothing this way. Use it for that and be happy :)

Oh, wait. in addition to stopping them, you want a medal for that. Well, in my opinion, that is a bit selfish. If you want the medal, do it the proper way. There are 300 battles in the game. Successfully trap 1 unit each 3 battles (and that doesn't cost a lot of nerves) and you will get the medal.

And with all due respect, nobody forces you to get that medal. It doesn't do anything to improve the score. In fact, as a warrior and paladin, where you need to take the fight to the enemy, those traps on the battlefield will simply hinder your tactical options. As such, I fail to see what is the problem and why are you unhappy.

[travelingoz]

"It's main purpose is to stop enemy units not to kill them completely"

That may well be the way you find most useful for the trap spell but that has nothing to do with the idea of achieving the trap medal. The medal and it's bonuses are a reward for using the spell creatively! The idea that you're proposing requires little creativity and is unfairly biased towards mages.

If that's the way you want to use it then fine don't worry about the medal. If you're prepared to use it creatively then the medal rewards you for that. Pure and simple.

IMHO, the Grand Strategy and Trap Medal's feel great every time you level them up because you had to work hard to get there. On the other hand, the others are nice when they level but there's just not that same satisfaction.

BTW The Trap Spell for a mage with high intellect can deliver well over 8000 damage and poison! That certainly is more than just a friendly grab around the ankle! :-P

EDIT: Damm DGD got me again!

[DGDobrev]

Sorry mate :P I just type quickly :) I totally agree with your assessment of the trap medal though. I personally find it a fun medal - putting a trap and watching the AI rushing towards my weak stack, steps on it... Bang! Dead. Sorry, Johnny, no cookies for you today!

:D

[travelingoz]

Me too! :grin: Especially at lower levels when the trap doesn't do a lot of damage so your trying to figure out how to weaken the stack without killing it and placing the spell so it gets stepped on.

Also it's great fun ambushing those pesky assassins with a trap placed in the right place too! ;-)

[supersonu1]

"It's main purpose is to stop enemy units not to kill them completely"

That may well be the way you find most useful for the trap spell but that has nothing to do with the idea of achieving the trap medal. The medal and it's bonuses are a reward for using the spell creatively! The idea that you're proposing requires little creativity and is unfairly biased towards mages.


In fact I find the idea of using trap spell against their logical purpose no fun at all. It's not that i cannot achieve the medal requirements, i have trapped 50 units successfully and just completed Bolo(3rd) island, but its their medal requirement flying away in the face of logic that's getting me.

Also this game(KBAP) is seriously biased towards Warriors so a little help with mages is a welcome respite.

Oh, wait. in addition to stopping them, you want a medal for that. Well, in my opinion, that is a bit selfish. If you want the medal, do it the proper way.

I think we are discussing what the proper way should be for medal requirements. And nobody is proposing to make requirements easy that is why in earlier posted somebody pointed out we should increase the requirements to a high no. like 700 and something and make the counter count whenever the trap is sprung.

[DGDobrev]

Indeed. However, if you master the sneaking tactic, you will find the game as a mage much more rewarding. Now I'm halfway through the game on impossible as a mage, no losses whatsoever and I doubt I spent more than 60-70k on troops for 31 levels. Sacrifice, target, Traps and Stone skin for the win!

At least for now.

[Ryastar]

I had my first encounter with executioners today, and I discovered, to my dismay, that their ability text has an error. They have an ability called terrify, which, according to the description text (sorry, I don't remember the exact wording) works something like a similar ability belonging to devilfish, namely that they have a chance of casting fear on the enemy when they attack. However, I discovered that what it actually means is that when an enemy attacks the executioner, there is a chance that they will have fear cast on them, which doesn't seem to make a difference, but it does, since that means that your ranged troops on the other side of the battlefield can get fear cast on them just by attacking the executioner.

The wording was something like "On attacking, there is a 30% chance that enemies of level 1-4 will become terrified etc etc", which is terribly ambiguous, since it is not clear who is doing the attacking; and the existence of devilfish would tend to make one assume that it is the executioner's attacks that cause this effect.

[Zechnophobe]

Oh yeah, this is true. Demologists occasionally summon executioners... and it's like BAM time when they do. Infinite retal, awesome support abilities... they are amazingly good units. They often get attacked a lot, retaliate a lot, and due to their fear ability, weaken an opposing armies ability to fight back. Fear most anything, and your dragons are free to swoop about.

[Mandea]

Oh, wait. in addition to stopping them, you want a medal for that. Well, in my opinion, that is a bit selfish. If you want the medal, do it the proper way. There are 300 battles in the game. Successfully trap 1 unit each 3 battles (and that doesn't cost a lot of nerves) and you will get the medal.

And with all due respect, nobody forces you to get that medal. It doesn't do anything to improve the score. In fact, as a warrior and paladin, where you need to take the fight to the enemy, those traps on the battlefield will simply hinder your tactical options. As such, I fail to see what is the problem and why are you unhappy.

no it's not selfish. those ways you suggested in the first page of the topic are impossible to use in the beginning due to lack of those troops and abilities. and in the late game I can see no reason to use trap.

not to mention that you have to use trap in the first round of the fight because in round 2 you are already engaged in hand-to-hand combat and it's pretty useless to use traps. and you can't kill anything with it. and you can't have another spell that round. it's probably more usable with the mage who can cast more spells per round and maybe in 2 rounds you can have manny traps placed.

i'd rather have trap medal without killing, but with more uses.
I want to get all medals, that's what I want, no matter warrior, mage or palladin. it's about self-respect :D
but the way it's been designed is rather akward.

I hope to see it changed in a patch.

[DGDobrev]

Weird. Now why do I managed to get the trap medal to lvl 3 by fight No. 97? Because I'm a mage? Good. Fine, good point. Now why did I manage to get the trap medal to lvl 3 on my 142nd fight as a paladin with only 14 intellect?

After I'm done with the mage on impossible, I'll do an impossible playthrough as a warrior and see by what point I can get that medal to lvl 3. Calinda already did it. Check the high score thread. I know he's a hardcore player, but this also means that everyone can do it.

However, I still do not understand why you people are so displeased with that medal. It is hard to get. Get over it and start devising tactics that can utilize it fully. Also keep in mind that as soon as you get 1-2 traps on the field, the medal pretty much improves itself, as many enemy troops would step on it and die.

Also, suffice it to sat that this game can be played in various ways - not only by using Target + Magic shield.

[Mandea]

I dont know how you managed but let me tell you how manny things I have to try to achieve in every single fight, especially in the beginning:
- no loss
- chest hunt
- poison or burning (arrows etc)
- trap
- use as much rage as possible.
- use bless/resurection/sotne skin or any other spell for a medal
so I feel like I'm being used, like being kept in a tight leash.

maybe I try to achieve too manny things at once. but if I succeed, the rest of the game is much easier.

[Urbz]

I dont know how you managed but let me tell you how manny things I have to try to achieve in every single fight, especially in the beginning:
- no loss
- chest hunt
- poison or burning (arrows etc)
- trap
- use as much rage as possible.
- use bless/resurection/sotne skin or any other spell for a medal
so I feel like I'm being used, like being kept in a tight leash.

maybe I try to achieve too manny things at once. but if I succeed, the rest of the game is much easier.

I think alot of players do this to a certain extent ( myself included ) because achievemnts are just simply a great way to enhance a game.
No one is telling us how to play though, you dont get extra score for the medals ( gladly I guess ) so you can play how you want, which is great! :grin:


@ DGDobrev: it's simple, most people are just hard/impossible to please. I'd personally love more harder medals/achievements, anyhow I love the feature which is all that matters, fun counts is my motto!

[Mandea]

yeah, ok, but when you add into ecuation a tough difficulty level every fight seems like chess, and I'm sorry, had I wanted to play chess, I would have played chess.
a lot of time is save/load.

to me it doesn't have logic with trap being used for final blow. but that's just me :)

[DGDobrev]

Well, I managed to do it in pretty much every single battle, even on impossible. There were a few tough battles where I didn't manage to do it fully, but that is to be expected.

Here's my battle stats. I'm sorry for the sloppy cutting and pasting in Paint, but that was the fastest I can do on such short notice :)

NOTE: 150 battles is what I did so far. I'm just getting to the orc lands, so my +int medal is about to rise.

[Mandea]

well, those stats don't say anything about type of play, and most of all it doesn't mean we can all do that easily. my point is: in the beginning because I strive too much to get the medals, I have no fun while playing (and that's the whole ideea). later on, yes, it's fun, but right now I don't like it.

[Meow]

Yeah somehow these medals aren't working out to be much fun for me either.

I'd agree with the sentiments that traps should be for units killed, or number of groups stopped, or something sensible.

But something is just not right with the whole process. My games consist of walling of a unit and berzerking him 10x in a row each battle. I then move on to stone skin 10x in a row. I use inquisitors and phantom to summon endless rage to level my dragon. And I dig three chests every battle. And I wall off, sleep, whatever the enemy each battle until I get that done. I've used 3000 rage now in 9 battles. I wouldn't call that fun... but the game heavily rewards such play.

I head into each battle not with the intention to decimate the enemy as best I can, but rather to tick off as many medal check boxes as I can, and to lvl my dragon as much as possible.

In an ideal game I shouldn't have to choose between fun or making the most out of my character. That's what mmorpgs are for.

[DGDobrev]

well, those stats don't say anything about type of play, and most of all it doesn't mean we can all do that easily. my point is: in the beginning because I strive too much to get the medals, I have no fun while playing (and that's the whole ideea). later on, yes, it's fun, but right now I don't like it.

Well, to be blunt, in the beginning this type of play didn't suit me either. I was close to shelving the game a couple of times, I was close to bashing my PC on other occasions. However, in the end, I didn't give up, and I adapted my new play style to the one that KBAP requires.

By that I mean:
- not necessarily going for all medals
- if I'm going for the medals, I make an army + skill + spell setup that will help me achieve them
- considering units that complement each other
- considering various lineups for the different battles
- based on the enemy composition, using different tactics
- getting used to spending less money and sticking with my original lineup as much as I can
- if I can't win a battle, I look for various alternatives

You should also be aware that the game is not linear. Nobody forces you to go from the first island, then the second, then the third. Kiting away the map guards and opening the entire world is a big asset. If you even manage to do a few quests, you will have the easiest game start ever.

For a reference, in KBTL I could simply get magic spring, resurrection and poison cloud then simply make a 140 turn battle to recover all my troops. KBAP presents various new options and possibilities. Use them. Do not limit yourselves. This is KBAP, not KBTL.

[Mandea]

I already realised it's not linear. that's why I choose my targets extremely careful and travel a lot between islands. and yes, I try to stick as much as possible with my original troops. too bad you can't sell troops or get somthing in return, when you don't need them. although you can trade runes, and change kinghts in dark knights etc

for me a 140 turn battle has nothing to do with playing a game. it's a waste of time. it's chess.

[travelingoz]

Well i guess it's kinda like the old saying "no pain, no gain". Yes it is constricting early game and certainly hard graft, however if you put the work in early, by mid game you will have achieved level 3 on most of the medals and you can sit back, relax and enjoy the fruits of your labours! :grin:

[Elwin]

There is second point of non lenear thing .. basicaly on eaxh island there are weaker and stronger stacks .. after clearing a weaker its good to move to next one, not to try kil the strongest ... unless you are realy strong and even invinvcibles are not a problem

[DGDobrev]

I already realised it's not linear. that's why I choose my targets extremely careful and travel a lot between islands. and yes, I try to stick as much as possible with my original troops. too bad you can't sell troops or get somthing in return, when you don't need them. although you can trade runes, and change kinghts in dark knights etc

for me a 140 turn battle has nothing to do with playing a game. it's a waste of time. it's chess.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in chess one the best things you can do is to lure the opponent into a trap (by misleading him he'll gain something, he'll capture your piece, by giving him a false sense of security, and so on). If the opponent bites, you usually win a piece at least. So the trap worked in this case, didn't it... Or should I throw my real-life gold and bronze chess medals away.

Well, so you simply do the same thing here. You show the AI a false opportunity, set a trap, the AI bites it, it dies, the trapper medal counter improves. Rather than winning a piece, you kill one here. It is different from using the trap to slow the enemy advancement, because slowing it means like you're using something like a pin in chess terms - you pin the enemy piece for a turn and that is it, with the small difference that this unit ends its turn while the pinned chess piece may still move (regardless of the consequences).

On the other hand, sometimes your opponent is smarter than that and he may avoid the trap - or he may not see it, but be lucky enough to avoid it by playing another move.

The same happens here. Either the AI bites, or not. At least in this game you can "help" the AI to bite using dragon abilities, unit abilities and spells.

[Infiltrator]

I think it's unfair to compare the opponent AI here to a chess game. He'll ALWAYS bite the trap which isn't challenging at all.

[DGDobrev]

Well, if he'll always bite, in that case the medal shouldn't be so hard to get and we shouldn't be having this little debate :)

Well, actually the AI sometimes doesn't bite and sometimes you're unlucky and the trap doesn't kill the troop, leaving it to a few HP, and leaving you to swear at your misfortune. So what? The next trap will kill it :)

[travelingoz]

"Well, if he'll always bite. in that case the medal shouldn't be so hard to get and we shouldn't be having this little debate"


Classic DGD! :grin: I spat my coffee all over my keyboard when i read this!:grin: Checkmate then is it?

[DGDobrev]

Well, I am not the one with the authority to make a checkmate. I am certain that the game developers have made the game as they should. It has been running for over 6 months in Russian, and nobody changed a thing. So it is highly unlikely that things will start changing now, simply because some players think that there are other ways that some parts of the game should look like.

[Urbz]

Yeah somehow these medals aren't working out to be much fun for me either.

I'd agree with the sentiments that traps should be for units killed, or number of groups stopped, or something sensible.

But something is just not right with the whole process. My games consist of walling of a unit and berzerking him 10x in a row each battle. I then move on to stone skin 10x in a row. I use inquisitors and phantom to summon endless rage to level my dragon. And I dig three chests every battle. And I wall off, sleep, whatever the enemy each battle until I get that done. I've used 3000 rage now in 9 battles. I wouldn't call that fun... but the game heavily rewards such play.

I head into each battle not with the intention to decimate the enemy as best I can, but rather to tick off as many medal check boxes as I can, and to lvl my dragon as much as possible.

In an ideal game I shouldn't have to choose between fun or making the most out of my character. That's what mmorpgs are for.

I do actually agree to a certain extent, also after kiting pretty die-hard in my impossible paladin without losses game I just wish kiting chart guardians wasnt an option.
It's simply too tempting to do if you cba with it, especially if you want to play without losses, either for the medal or the whole game.
I'm now back at debir without having killed anything there ( think ive had like 4 battles ) on a lvl 16 paladin with 54xx leadership and 3 archdemon, 2 tirex, 24 paladins etc. and fully stuffed with items, just spamming spells and such to gain more medals pretty much like your said, can't say it's much fun really.

[DGDobrev]

It is normal to feel like that in the beginning - I did too in my current game. Wait will you get to the boss battles, castle sieges, and the tougher heroes that spam geyser like crazy. It is in those battles where a no-loss game is decided.

[supersonu1]

Well, if he'll always bite, in that case the medal shouldn't be so hard to get and we shouldn't be having this little debate :)


But DGD we are NOT I repeat NOT discussing toughness of the trap medal. We are discussing the medal requirement for trap medal doesn't make an iota of sense with the purpose of trap spell.

Yeah somehow these medals aren't working out to be much fun for me either.

I'd agree with the sentiments that traps should be for units killed, or number of groups stopped, or something sensible.

But something is just not right with the whole process. My games consist of walling of a unit and berzerking him 10x in a row each battle. I then move on to stone skin 10x in a row. I use inquisitors and phantom to summon endless rage to level my dragon. And I dig three chests every battle. And I wall off, sleep, whatever the enemy each battle until I get that done. I've used 3000 rage now in 9 battles. I wouldn't call that fun... but the game heavily rewards such play.

I head into each battle not with the intention to decimate the enemy as best I can, but rather to tick off as many medal check boxes as I can, and to lvl my dragon as much as possible.

In an ideal game I shouldn't have to choose between fun or making the most out of my character. That's what mmorpgs are for.

You have absolutely nailed the point!
In most fight by the end of 3rd turn i have completely destroyed the most enemy stacks save for one melee unit. Then I cast slow on the unit and use my dragon' push ability to keep knocking that unit back to starting point while i cast as much as stone-skin spell, fire spell, shield spell and inquisitor's holy rage ability and what not for 3-4 mind bogglingly boring turns to level up my medals.

Let me tell you when i was playing KBTL a year ago i was giving that game 5+ hrs sitting in one session. Here in KBAP i get bored after a single hour of uselessly leveling up medal and decide to play after some time.

[DGDobrev]

Well, as the saying goes, to each one his own :) I, for one, love to level up the medals. Gives me something else to do, and to strive for.

[Infiltrator]

Don't know if it's intended or not, but can you not sacrifice units that you charm with the demoness on others than the demoness? I can't fill up anyone else apart from her and I tried it twice. Am I doing something wrong or what?

[DGDobrev]

Hmm, maybe demoness' charm works in a different way than Hypnosis, because the unit goes under HER control. Since you couldn't resurrect anyone else than the demoness, that would be the only assumption.

[Infiltrator]

Yes that was my initial assumption as well, but that is not how the spell used to work.

[DGDobrev]

Well, with the difference that this is not a spell but an ability. Even the description says that the unit will fight for HER for 2 turns. This is why it looks plausible. The only thing that I can add is that if that was a bug, the russian players would have already said something about that and it would have been fixed.

[Infiltrator]

Perhaps. I did say how I abused the charm+sacrifice combo in KBTL so I won't complain. I won't even put points into destruction now that I know that I can't utilize it to the fullest.

[travelingoz]

I'm not sure about Demonesses, however i can confirm that Dryads charmed units can be sacrificed. But as this has a fairly low trigger rate, Druids animal charm is much better as it always works! Just wait until after the animal takes it's turn if you are a warrior, use the Druids charm then immediately cast Sacrifice. Next turn use your dragons mana ball and cast again. If you still have enough mana, you can actually get 3 Sacrifices b4 the 2 turn charm wears off. ;)

[Infiltrator]

Succubus units CAN be sacrificed.. but the resulting sacrifice revival can only be applied to the succubi themselves. Again not sure if I was just doing something wrong.. You can sacrifice above your leadership level in KBAP right?

[DGDobrev]

Yes, you can, but it's not desirable, as you'll have to kill the extra units afterwards so that the troops can go back in your ranks :)

[Infiltrator]

I know, I did that all the time in KBTL, sacrifice it before the end of the battle, then put the surplus in reserve. With that I never had to buy troops any longer, just sacrifice stacks that lacked numbers to fill up leadership.

[DGDobrev]

Well, back to the trap problem.

You guys think the medal's great, isn't it? Well, let me tell you a story.

Right now I'm facing Demenion and if I am to keep up that no-loss spree on impossible I have to beat him up without losing a unit. However, as a Mage, I have only 21k leadership. Demenion has a big Archdemon stack that halves everything it hits. In addition to that, he has 2 stacks of emerald green dragons. To make matters worse, the game spawns 2 traps just in front of my troops. So what happens?

Archdemon teleports to the free spot (not on a trap, of course) and halves the Gorguanas. The first emeral green dragon flies to a spot behind the trap, takes one of my units and drags it. The unit takes damage from the bite and from the trap. The second emerald green dragon does the same over the other trap. Now this is what I call starting with a severe handicap.

Well... Time to get back to figuring how to beat up demenion even through those difficulties.

[Urbz]

Well, back to the trap problem.

You guys think the medal's great, isn't it? Well, let me tell you a story.

Right now I'm facing Demenion and if I am to keep up that no-loss spree on impossible I have to beat him up without losing a unit. However, as a Mage, I have only 21k leadership. Demenion has a big Archdemon stack that halves everything it hits. In addition to that, he has 2 stacks of emerald green dragons. To make matters worse, the game spawns 2 traps just in front of my troops. So what happens?

Archdemon teleports to the free spot (not on a trap, of course) and halves the Gorguanas. The first emeral green dragon flies to a spot behind the trap, takes one of my units and drags it. The unit takes damage from the bite and from the trap. The second emerald green dragon does the same over the other trap. Now this is what I call starting with a severe handicap.

Well... Time to get back to figuring how to beat up demenion even through those difficulties.



Ouch DG !

[DGDobrev]

Well, I managed to do it. From the 4th attempt that is... I was simply trying to make a point. People talk about medals being illogical, hard to get and so on. The trap medal can be both a boon and a curse. In this case, it was a curse. Since I'm a mage, I can't get the tactics skill to rearrange my troops and have to physically move them in order for the stronger troops to defend the weaker ones. If I move them, they go on a square next to a trap, begging for the emerald dragons to have some fun. If I don't I leave the weaker units unprotected, and the dragons simply go and have some fun with them.

It is a very irritating situation, but as usual, there is a way out of it. You just have to look for it :)

[Tibster]

Since u fought eficienlty to this point , cant u aford to buy runes in Montera ?
( I play hard so i have more money )

[DGDobrev]

I buy runes only from lvl 50 upwards. From lvl 50 you start gaining only half the runes on a usual levelup and you may need the extra.

I cannot buy that many might runes to get all the way down to the bottom of the might tree where tactics is. The mage is doomed to play without tactics because runes cost a lot. Although I have close to 2 mil, that will be sufficient to get 1-2 skills in the might tree at most. Let's not forget that in the magic tree, there are skills that require might runes as well.

So if you play warrior or paladin, tactics is viable option. The mage simply can't get there, unless you trade all the mind and magic runes you get with her, which is extremely inefficient. This is why from the might tree, I fully developed only Rage Control and Anger.

[Elwin]

yeah from might tree i go only for onslaught III rage control, exp for dragon .. second line max ... Demenion .. when i see his army it makes me think i will fight him later :p MArquise was a breeze when i got phantom and timeback .. arnold was pretty much tougher with his nasty teleport but still beat him .. oh and i had loss .. i didnt notice i have 1 demonologist lost .. as i am not going for no loss i do not bother to reload such long battle .... but i lost only due to fact i was sure its full stack ..

[Infiltrator]

Ok it seems our succubus theory is flawed.

I just HYPNOTIZED (not charmed) some units, and I wanted to cast sacrifice with my hero, when AGAIN I can't rez anyone else but the succubi. WTF?

edit: I tried again with no succubi in my army, and again I can't reinforce anything.

[DGDobrev]

Well, that is weird. Unless they did something to stop the hypnotize/sacrifice tactic, I can't think of anything else. Hypno/Sacricife was a big deal in KBTL.

Still, this doesn't look at all proper, since you can resurrect something. There is something amiss. I should have tried that tactic with the russian version. I may do so sometime, when I reinstall it.

[Infiltrator]

Well, you can ressurect, but you can't go past what you had, which you can with sacrifice - only it works just on succubi :/

[travelingoz]

Infiltrator;
What units are you calling Succubi? What are the other units in your army and what level and damage is your Sacrifice spell at?

[Elwin]

Succub = demoness in every other game crreature looking like that is called succub ;p

[Infiltrator]

travelingoz - I've resolved my issue yesterday, and it's as you anticipated - my succubi were the lowest HP unit I had. I had wrongly assumed Demonologists were lower HP being casters and all, so I disregarded the fact that it might have been a too weak spell issue, when in fact it was it.

[TemjinGold]

Okay either something is screwy with Sacrifice or I'm doing something really wrong. My L14 mage has 1 troll, 1 green dragon and 36 inquisitors. My Level 2 Sacrifice deals 1575 damage, which kills just over 18 inquisitors, and reinforces 50%. With the inquisitors in 1 stack, I can't even cast the spell on them (only on the troll or dragon.) With them in two equal stacks, I can sacrifice one of them but can only reinforce the other stack of inquisitors. I cannot reinforce the dragon (too weak I guess) OR the troll (shouldn't be too weak as troll has 780 HP, which is less than 50% of 1575.) Is there some kind of limitation I'm not aware of (such as L2 Sacrifice not working on L5 creatures)? I can sacrifice both the troll and the dragon btw, just can't reinforce them. Is the 50% a mistranslation maybe?

[DGDobrev]

Hmmm... Are you sure the damage is 1575? That's 300% over the basic lvl 2 Sacrifice 500 damage. 300% boost for 14 levels looks quite a lot. Destruction adds 50% at best, so you must have 250% from intellect and items. That means you either have over 22 intellect by lvl 14, or something is amiss - keeping in mind that you had the runes to afford lvl 3 destruction. I am aware that both of those are manageable by that level though.

As for the mistranslation, there isn't one. It is 50% increase.

Well, let me see the game mechanics of Sacrifice.

The basic formula is:

Number of creatures = Damage/Target HP => rounded down
Damage is astral - no resistance against it.
Damage = Damage*(1+0.05*Int)*(1+0.01*(Destruction+items))
Where the damage inside the formula is 500 - the basic lvl 2 sacrifice damage.

Maybe that rounding down plays a small problem here, or the damage you inflict isn't 1575. It looks quite high for me for lvl 2 sacrifice cast by a lvl 14 Mage. As far as I know, the only restriction concerning sacrifice is when the damage isn't enough to raise a unit, or that it can't be cast on magic immune creatures. It also looks like you're not killing the entire stack, as 36x70=2520.

However, if you sacrifice only 18 (meaning you split the stacks), that is less than 1575 - 18x70=1260 total, which is 1260/2=630 HP, which is not enough for a troll.

[TemjinGold]

I am certain of the damage numbers. With items (Ring of Mind, Ancient Amulet, that weird twisty thingy that you can fight keepers for Hypnosis scroll, Novice Dress), skills, and Elenhel, my mage has 25 intellect and L2 Destruction.

Edit: Forgot to mention, killing Skip gave me Staff of Insanity, which adds 10% to attacking spells (Sacrifice counts apparently as the numbers went up in my spellbook.)

Edit2: OOPS! I messed up. My math was wrong--I only had 18 inquisitors in the stack I sacrificed, which is far less than 1575 hp worth (even tho the spell can do that much.) Sorry!

Edit3: Should also mention in my original post, when I had all 36 in 1 stack, I didn't put on that Staff of Insanity yet. I also didn't get Destruct L2 and that first Mind skill that also gives +1 Int, so it was only doing 1260 at the time. I did my calculations from that number and forgot to adjust it after I boosted my damage to 1575.

[DGDobrev]

Interesting. In that case, you should be able to sacrifice around 20/36 Inquisitors and get 1 troll (1575/2=787.5 is the result). It is not enough for a dragon, but you should be able to get one troll. The math checks out in this case.

There seems to be something wrong with the formula. It either doesn't factor the 3x15% bonuses (for the stacking 15% bonus for every 7 points of intellect), or my calculations are incorrect:

500*(1+0.05*25)*(1+0.01*(30+0))=500*2.25*1.3=1462. 5

I'm missing something that adds 10% to damage of attacking spells, then the damage is exactly 1575.

[TemjinGold]

Your math is good. I forgot to mention the Staff of Insanity in my original post (+10% to attacking spells.)

[DGDobrev]

Hmm. In that case I wonder why can't you cast the spell on the full inquisitor stack. If it is split, it will be insufficient.

[TemjinGold]

Already explained in my original post. Was my mistake. Just added Grinskin and Zag-Zag to the list of kills with just 1 troll at night. The unit is way too powerful...

[Infiltrator]

I think this is a bug and not a feature:

Everyone knows that once you reach 0 rage, your mana starts regenerating rapidly.

The problem is, once you get Bloodlust (which makes you always have a minimum rage amount based on your max rage) you lose the ability to regenerate mana quickly since you're never at 0 rage in adventure mode.

I think that in the next patch, they should allow mana to regen quickly once you reach your minimum rage threshold to reduce the tedious amounts of time you have to sit out and wait for your mana to regenerate.

[DGDobrev]

Hmm, in my opinion that would imbalance the game even further in favor of the warrior. Having 40% rage and full mana available all the time? That would be way too uber.

[Infiltrator]

Hmm, in my opinion that would imbalance the game even further in favor of the warrior. Having 40% rage and full mana available all the time? That would be way too uber.

Well, you CAN have that, it's just a mater of patience, you need to wait it out. That's why I'm saying it's just a tedious/annoying process.

Also, another discrepancy - apparently units that receive damage buffs don't carry over those bonuses to their special abilities.

For example. The axe which grants +20% damage on axe-wielding units. It increases the damage of the Executioners properly. BUT, when you try to execute someone, the damage of the special ability is LOWER then the damage with their base attack, because the item bonus doesn't carry over to it.

[DGDobrev]

Well, the execultioners' ability states a specific amount of damage. I'm not cetrain that it can be boosted. I also noticed same things happening when using the Drill, the Silver Rapier, Elf bow, and a few other items that don't come to mind right now.

[TemjinGold]

The Ball Lightning ability doesn't show the Rage and Rest amounts. Instead it just says {rage}{rest}. The coding probably missed a syntax somewhere.

[Zechnophobe]

Well, the execultioners' ability states a specific amount of damage. I'm not cetrain that it can be boosted. I also noticed same things happening when using the Drill, the Silver Rapier, Elf bow, and a few other items that don't come to mind right now.

The ability is still boosted by attack however. At least, I know most damage abilities are. The most obvious one is the drain life effect from demonologists, that you get more health from if you use on a weaker unit.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Army drum +1 morale to all troops but mine does nothing :confused:

My mistake I have a Demon in my army.

EDIT haha

Took the Demon out and only Mages get the boost.

[DGDobrev]

Well, in the russian version, the drum gives +1 morale to all human troops - and indeed, it does, I've just checked it. What is your army composition?

EDIT: Ok, I've tested it. It does give +1 morale to all humans, but it won't give a morale bonus to any other race. That is a discrepancy all right... +1 morale all troops is EXTREMELY misleading.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Well, in the russian version, the drum gives +1 morale to all human troops - and indeed, it does, I've just checked it. What is your army composition?

EDIT: Ok, I've tested it. It does give +1 morale to all humans, but it won't give a morale bonus to any other race. That is a discrepancy all right... +1 morale all troops is EXTREMELY misleading.

Aye lad :-P

[TemjinGold]

The AI's priorities are borked. My mystic egg should be on the TOP of their priority list to attack but it seems like the AI only attacks it if:

1) It's a multihex attack that would kill something else.
2) He's spamming something like Geyser.
3) I've cast Fear on his last unit and there's literally nothing else he can hit.

Otherwise, I can lay my eggs and pretty much be assured they will hatch.

[DGDobrev]

In that case, I fail to see why you are unhappy :P I totally confirm your observations and totally agree with them - especially if the egg hatches something like... 20 red dragons?!

[Metathron]

In that case, I fail to see why you are unhappy :P I totally confirm your observations and totally agree with them - especially if the egg hatches something like... 20 red dragons?!

That can happen?? :eek: I'm an instant gratification kinda guy, never had the patience to wait for the egg to hatch, prefer to use direct damage dragon abilities. But in my next game, I'm bound to invest in the egg more!

[DGDobrev]

The Egg, when maxed, can spawn any animal, neutral or dragon (pretty much anything that CAN hatch from an egg) lvl 2-5 troop with leadership x+ up to 90% of your own :) The warrior will enjoy that for sure... Still it is an egg that dies in 1 hit, so you'd better be careful with its placement :)

[Zechnophobe]

Discrepency: I Put a berserking Barbarian to sleep (With a dryad, not paralyzing ray), even though the tooltip for the berserk activated ability says they are immune to mind effects.

[TemjinGold]

In that case, I fail to see why you are unhappy :P I totally confirm your observations and totally agree with them - especially if the egg hatches something like... 20 red dragons?!

Well, I'm unhappy because the AI shouldn't be so sloppy especially on impossible. It feels really cheesy right now because the drawback to balance such a strong dragon skill was supposed to be the egg's vulnerability, which the AI never takes advantage of. It's kind of like playing chess against a CPU that always falls for a certain trap.

[Zechnophobe]

It also takes an extra turn before it happens, and has an additional +1 rest over most dragon abilities. It is a good ability, but not that good. And the 1 hp is still relevant, since it CAN die. AoE kills them pretty easy for instance.

[RYTEDR]

"Night Sight" doesn't seem to work for the miners or foremen.

Bleeding: The description of the debuff isn't general enough. It mentions the werewolf's blades in the tooltip when Bleeding is also possible with the gorgul's circle attack.

EDIT: I've looked at the coding on the miners and foremen and it appears like they are actually supposed to have the "underground" ability like the beholders/cave spiders. Indeed, the ability only activates when in caves, so the tooltip is definitely misleading.