Three questions on flat spins

[Roboslob]

1) How do you enter them? (So I know how to avoid one)
2) How do you recover from them? (Would you just apply the rudder in the opposite direction?)
3) Has anyone ever come out of one backwards? (This one is kind of a joke)

[Lexandro]

1.) Any time you stall you should enter a spin, as the plane drops a wing.
2.) Yup
3.) Actually yes kinda. I went in to a stall spin my frist time playing Sim, I did as the game commanded to recovered and ended up catching it and then going in to another spin in the opposite direction. :rolleyes: I eventually caught it and ended up having to go NAP over the cliffs of dover to avoid hitting the deck.

[Ancient Seraph]

1.) Any time you stall you should enter a spin, as the plane drops a wing.
2.) Yup
3.) Actually yes kinda. I went in to a stall spin my frist time playing Sim, I did as the game commanded to recovered and ended up catching it and then going in to another spin in the opposite direction. :rolleyes: I eventually caught it and ended up having to go NAP over the cliffs of dover to avoid hitting the deck.

Actually, I think you're talking about the normal nose-diving spin. Those are easier to recover, and get in to I believe. Haven't experienced much flat spins, so wouldn't really know how to get into one. To get out of it it's probably rudder and nose down, to gain airspeed.
As for getting out of a spin backwards.. not very likely. The Center of Gravity is in the front of the plane, so it tends to go nose-down whithout external forces. So it's not really possible to go down tail-first, at least not for longer than a couple of seconds.

[Roboslob]

Thanks, I got into 2 on the demo so far in the middle of a dogfight, not sure how though. After fighting it for long as I could I bailed and watched the plane crash. Then I could tell it was a flat spin and not a normal one. I remember getting out, but then fell into another stall with about 200 meters alt, so I bailed.

[Tudorp15]

Flat spin and a wing stall is not the same thing. You enter into a flat spin in many cases by loosing all air speed and having no wing lift on both wings. Then, you simply start to fall right out of the sky. if you are turning or in a roll, and loose lift on one wing before the other completely, then you simply go into a stall spin. and start to spiral down. A flat spin, bottom line is, you need to get your air speed back however you can. Full power (after you get your nose down), and get the nose down so you can get the air flowing back over the wing foils to create lift again. If you can rudder to get your plane into a roll, it will cause your nose to drop too. Aileron won't work at all for the roll, simply because they will do nothing if you do not have air movement across the wings. Elevator down, and full rudder will in most cases will give you some roll, and nose down. Sometimes, I shut my motor to zero percent at first, because power to the props will natually try to pull your nose up. So, cutting it to zero at first, full rudder and elevator down will get your nose down. Once you have nose down, get back on the power and drive to the ground until your airspeed is up again, and you have your aileron control back.. Hopefully, you don't hit the ground before that happens though.. lol..

[Crispus222]

Regular spins are easy to get out of (Although the game has you use ailerons with rudder and you should never touch ailerons in a spin in a real plane). A flat bed spin though, from the theory of it would be impossible to get out of. "Recovery from the flatter of the two modes was usually less reliable or impossible. The further aft that the center of gravity was located the flatter the spin and the less reliable the recovery." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_%28flight%29. (also, I know that wiki isn't the best source...). This is a reason though that when we are practicing spins in real life, we do it in the utility C of G category which give an appropriate forward C of G so as to make recover possible.

[Roboslob]

Well recovery is possible, as demonstarted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvbS-oHi9ro
But like you mentioned his CoG was clearly to the front as his nose is already point down slightly. What I experianced was much the same, but without the happy ending. (Or recovery the first time)

[xX-SiLeNcE-Xx]

:O omg that would be scary...

[Panzergranate]

The problem is that the instructions given, in game, to pill out of a spin are not the correct way flying manuals tell you to do it.

The quickest way is to push the hose down, leave the controls alone and the aircraft will correct itself a lot quicker and all by itself.... usually.

In a left hand spin, throttling up the engine will break the spin of a single engined aircraft due to engine/propellor torque. On a right hand spin, it will make it worst.

All single engined propellor aircraft can turn tighter to the left than the right because of this. You are also more likely to spin on a tight right turn, especially if throttling up, than on a left turn.

Turning tightly on aerolons only without using negative rudder is another way of causing a spin.

[Crispus222]

The problem is that the instructions given, in game, to pill out of a spin are not the correct way flying manuals tell you to do it.

The quickest way is to push the hose down, leave the controls alone and the aircraft will correct itself a lot quicker and all by itself.... usually.

In a left hand spin, throttling up the engine will break the spin of a single engined aircraft due to engine/propellor torque. On a right hand spin, it will make it worst.

All single engined propellor aircraft can turn tighter to the left than the right because of this. You are also more likely to spin on a tight right turn, especially if throttling up, than on a left turn.

Turning tightly on aerolons only without using negative rudder is another way of causing a spin.

No, no no! That is not the quickest way, especially if the plane is not as stable as say a cessna 172! You must make every attempt to avoid the spin and if enter, the quickest way out is this: Pull power, opposite rudder of spin and then pull out of it. Do not let the plane recover on it's own because A) It might not! B) It's far quicker to get out using proper technique, C) Once the plane recovers itself, it could have sped up so much that you are close to, at or exceeding the Vne (NEVER EXCEED SPEED) and cannot recover now anyways. During training me and my instructor were in a 172 and tested the planes self recovery because the 172 is sooo freaking stable you actually have to push it to get it into a spin. Anyways, before it recovered itself, it was approaching dangerously high speeds and my instructor recovered it himself.

Next, turning with opposite rudder is called slipping, which slows your turn, and is used to reduce airspeed or lose altitude faster with an increase in airspeed.

So I pose this question, where are you getting this information?!

[Crispus222]

Well recovery is possible, as demonstarted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvbS-oHi9ro
But like you mentioned his CoG was clearly to the front as his nose is already point down slightly. What I experianced was much the same, but without the happy ending. (Or recovery the first time)

You know what he did... I can see how this would recover but it is still by pure luck... He cut the engine completely in hopes that without the power the nose would drop, which it did, and just in time to. Sadly, because the altitude which it finally recovered was so low, he could not execute a proper forced approach and the plane crashed. This was a lucky recovery! The problem with a completely flat spin is that there are no aerodynamic forces working on any control surfaces, making any control inputs useless... Good find though!

[gbtstr]

So I pose this question, where are you getting this information?!

Wondering this myself. There seems to be some bad gouge floating around the forums.

[Roboslob]

Sadly, because the altitude which it finally recovered was so low, he could not execute a proper forced approach and the plane crashed.

Another big factor would be the intense disorientation he was experiancing. He stated (either in the info or comments) that he could not read his instruments and when he was "level and steady" the plane realy was rocking and at an angle.

[Ancient Seraph]

(...)

In a left hand spin, throttling up the engine will break the spin of a single engined aircraft due to engine/propellor torque. On a right hand spin, it will make it worst.
(...)

Not necesarilly.. depends on the direction of rotation of the propellor. There are aircraft which have props that rotate counter-clockwise.

[Crispus222]

Another big factor would be the intense disorientation he was experiancing. He stated (either in the info or comments) that he could not read his instruments and when he was "level and steady" the plane realy was rocking and at an angle.

Yep, that's very true! Although instruments are not as important if you have outside visual. It's called VFR which is visual flight rules. This means your flying the plane with reference to outside and not the instruments (although you do check them from time to time). It would suck to get into spins or spiral dives on an IFR flight although you do learn to recognize them from the instruments. The big factor here which comes from what your saying is the human factors of being able to handle those forces and disorientation that your body is experiencing. But yes, very good point thank you!