Trading skill - gone?

[BB Shockwave]

Just noticed after starting to play the russian version - the Trading skill is missing from the skill tree. Is it gone for good? That's a bummer, it means we can only sell stuff at 1/3 price...

Btw, I'll start collecting info about the changes to creatures/spells, even some low level creatures have gotten interesting new abilities (Lake Dragonflies can paralyze enemies for example)

[Elwin]

btw i wrote almost all changes long time ago :P i could missed something of course since i only translated manual .

[Zhuangzi]

Yep I've played the Russian version too and there's no Trading. I was a bit confused about this because it was always my practice to max Trading and sell items for full value. I even used to upgrade items I didn't want to keep for their sale value. But the Trading skill is gone and I don't think it's been replaced by anything, which means we get something crappy like 1/3 resale value. :(

[Metroplex]

Zhuangzi, I guess you couldn't wait and imported the Rusky version, I should have done the same thinking in retrospect because the English mod had been available for quite sometime now, but no matter, just under a fortnight to go till it is released! (Hopefully):evil:
How much did you pay for it?
Do you plan on getting the English version seeing you have already played the game?

[Elwin]

he said already its 500r = around 19$

[BB Shockwave]

btw i wrote almost all changes long time ago :P i could missed something of course since i only translated manual .

Yeah I remember - but frankly I wanted to do a big unit guide: why to use/not use the unit, strenghts, weaknesses (IE what to do when you are facing it). With screenshots of the unit in action, etc. I once did a similar guide for HOMMIII, our hungarian gaming magazine even put it on their bonus CD once. :)

Graphical changes are cool too, I like the new colors on shamans, but there are more drastic changes: for example Marauders, unlike robbers, wield dual daggers, not flails! (they still use "biting strike" though).

But the funniest are Decaying Zombies - the old green decaying zombie skin is now the regular zombie, the upgraded version has a red shirt and has lost the hood - because of the missing hood, the zombie's idle animation where he shakes his head to remove the hood that slipped over his face looks hilarious, as if he had cold and would shake to avoid freezing. :)

[Zhuangzi]

Zhuangzi, I guess you couldn't wait and imported the Rusky version, I should have done the same thinking in retrospect because the English mod had been available for quite sometime now, but no matter, just under a fortnight to go till it is released! (Hopefully):evil:
How much did you pay for it?
Do you plan on getting the English version seeing you have already played the game?

Yes I will get it from Gamersgate anyway because the translation is pretty dodgy. I think I mentioned somewhere that 'Dodge!' is translated as 'Boner!' which is just hilarious. There was another item that is translated as Onion Shower, and the text mentions a shard of onions or something. It's pretty screwed, but playable if you don't mind not knowing what you are supposed to be doing.

I love the KB games more than I've loved anything for maybe 10 years. I still want boxed versions of both games at some point, in case Gamersgate ever goes bust in the future.

As for the Mind tree in general, I felt that Katauri had spent a lot of time and thought on improving the skills here. The Mind tree was weak in KB:TL, even though I liked a few things like Trading, but now the Paladin seems like a more genuine third class than it did in TL.

[Elwin]

btw from english translation i have read that first medal is for no loses battles, i have played polish demo and its says its 10 fights without loss at all .. so how is it at real?

[travelingoz]

At level 2, after 30 fights no loss, increases to a total of +500 leadership and level 3 is 50 fights no loss +1000 leadership.

The fights need nor be consecutive either. :)

[Dargor]

Yep I've played the Russian version too and there's no Trading. I was a bit confused about this because it was always my practice to max Trading and sell items for full value. I even used to upgrade items I didn't want to keep for their sale value. But the Trading skill is gone and I don't think it's been replaced by anything, which means we get something crappy like 1/3 resale value. :(

I think there is no problem in dissapearing of this skill because there is no money deficit in the game. At normal difficulty you can "collect" up to 5000000 of gold easily.

[jake21]

Well that is disappointing; in the first game money was an important factor at higher difficulties. It sounds like they removed the the money factor from the add on :(

I wish they would do another space ranger :)


I think there is no problem in dissapearing of this skill because there is no money deficit in the game. At normal difficulty you can "collect" up to 5000000 of gold easily.

[BB Shockwave]

Well money is still a necessity - artifacts and spells cost a lot more. In my first game, the starting castle already had the Dragon Slayer sword for sale, but for 45.000 gold - that takes a while to accumulate.

On the other hand, magic crystals are more numerous - plus, any class now can take Alchemy so upgrading spells is less costly.

[Zhuangzi]

From my limited experience with AP (on Hard) I found that I had to be much more discerning about which items to buy. I also had to try harder to minimise losses, which can usually be done quite easily if you really want to. There is a new spell that is basically like Reaper's Time Back rage skill and I was using this a LOT. In fact it made the game pretty easy toward the end. I would just cast Mass Haste and buff my Horsemen, who would then charge right into the nest of enemies and take a load of damage. On Turn 2, I would wait something that wasn't too important, then cast the Time Back skill before the end of the turn. :cool:

[Dargor]

I do not develop Alchemy because most of spells are near useless for certain Hero with certain army. Money can make your victories more comfortable in the start of the game. And probably you can feel their deficit if you like to experiment with different new units (it is realy interesting :) ).

[Zhuangzi]

Dargor, some of the new units are just incredibly fun to play with. I especially loved the Paladin with his mass resurrection, the Pangolin race (not so much the T-rex, but especially the raptor thing that lays eggs) and of course the Royal Griffin. Need I say more? :-P

[BB Shockwave]

Dargor, some of the new units are just incredibly fun to play with. I especially loved the Paladin with his mass resurrection, the Pangolin race (not so much the T-rex, but especially the raptor thing that lays eggs) and of course the Royal Griffin. Need I say more? :-P

Where do you first get Pangolins? I haven't even met them as enemies yet, but I really want to use them in my army. This is my first play-through and I want to test all the new units as well the changes to the old ones.

I just got to Verona and bought myself some 13 Royal Griffins, can't wait to try them. Too bad they don't mix well with Dragons (-2 morale) so I guess my Emeralds will take a backseat from now.

My current army composition was until now (Level 9): Droid Guards, Droid Engineers, Polar Bears, Emerald Green Dragon and the last unit I swapped between Inquisitors or Royal Thorns, depending on the need for resurrection.

Droids are really fun units, they can take a pounding due to high resistances and defense. Guards are a tad slow, but they can grab and pull enemy shooters/mages from across the screen to your slower units, which is great. Shock is a bit bugged - doesn't work as often as 30% chance would let you think. Damage is always max for them (12-12) which is nice. Engineers have ultra-powerfull resurrection skill for droids, it works much better then regular resurrection, so you can let your droid guards run ahead and take the beating. Plus, it's rechargable. They are also the most mobile shooters in the game with 4 speed and flying, it's impossible to block them.

Little hint: if your engineers are getting killed - since they can't resurrect themselves - use Phantom on them and heal them with the phantoms.

From the new units, Demonologists are also great, but I found only 4 so far. Their summoning (it always brings Demons, Executioners or Cerberi) is great for blocking/occupying enemies, thanks to the new demon skill that lets Demons/Executioners act again if they are hit (50% chance). A pity you cannot control these summons, though. Their other skill is like sacrifice cast on enemy units - good, but not as powerfull as resurrection, of course.

[Zhuangzi]

Where do you first get Pangolins? I haven't even met them as enemies yet, but I really want to use them in my army. This is my first play-through and I want to test all the new units as well the changes to the old ones.

I just got to Verona and bought myself some 13 Royal Griffins, can't wait to try them. Too bad they don't mix well with Dragons (-2 morale) so I guess my Emeralds will take a backseat from now.

My current army composition was until now (Level 9): Droid Guards, Droid Engineers, Polar Bears, Emerald Green Dragon and the last unit I swapped between Inquisitors or Royal Thorns, depending on the need for resurrection.

Droids are really fun units, they can take a pounding due to high resistances and defense. Guards are a tad slow, but they can grab and pull enemy shooters/mages from across the screen to your slower units, which is great. Shock is a bit bugged - doesn't work as often as 30% chance would let you think. Damage is always max for them (12-12) which is nice. Engineers have ultra-powerfull resurrection skill for droids, it works much better then regular resurrection, so you can let your droid guards run ahead and take the beating. Plus, it's rechargable. They are also the most mobile shooters in the game with 4 speed and flying, it's impossible to block them.

Little hint: if your engineers are getting killed - since they can't resurrect themselves - use Phantom on them and heal them with the phantoms.

From the new units, Demonologists are also great, but I found only 4 so far. Their summoning (it always brings Demons, Executioners or Cerberi) is great for blocking/occupying enemies, thanks to the new demon skill that lets Demons/Executioners act again if they are hit (50% chance). A pity you cannot control these summons, though. Their other skill is like sacrifice cast on enemy units - good, but not as powerfull as resurrection, of course.

Well I played through the whole game (only about 30 hours) and I don't think I found the Pangolins in any great quantity until the Pangolin continent. I forget what it's called right now, but it's where one of the last quest thingys is. One of my general strategies is to try to get all the 'new island' cards as quickly as possible. The fights aren't usually as hard as they seem (Overpowering etc) and you can use the special spells before the fights. When you first get to the Pangolin continent, you can pick up about 10 T-Rex eggs from the ground all over the island, which will make a really nasty tank for the mid-game (very high leadership though). The egg laying ones are the best IMO though, because each one lays an egg that will have 50% of the original's leadership, and that one can lay an egg for 25% of the original's leadership, etc, etc. Lots of cannon fodder. So my advice is to open up new continents and search for cool units and combos of units. This will mean you take more days to complete the game of course. :rolleyes:

But the Pangolins can wait until later otherwise. You can't go wrong with Paladins, Royal Griffins, Royal Thorns and Inquisitors, plus a random grunt like maybe Guardsmen. This is geared more for the Warrior class. All of these should be available in Verona. I liked using the droids too in the early stages of the game, especially on the island where you buy from the specific droid-seller.

I could only find about 12 Demonologists in my whole game too, so I didn't really get to use them. Those Executioners look pretty awesome too, but I didn't use them. It's really hard to go past the Paladin, I think. That mass resurrect is pretty sweet. :cool:

EDIT: back onto the topic of this thread, another thing that is gone is the Reserve skill. Now you get two reserve slots from the beginning, which I think is fine.

[travelingoz]

Yes, the availability of Demonologists can be very scarce. Likewise, necromancers can be hard to find too, especially early game!

I haven't tried the warrior or paladin yet but have played through mage on hard and as Zhungzi suspected in another thread, it wasn't too difficult. I'm trying to play through on impossible now with no losses and find that using a combination of Paladins, Royal Griffins, Red Dragons, Dryads, Beholders, Necromancers and Demonologists works well. However i'm level 48 now and trying to defeat some of the bosses on the lizzard island is proving quite lengthy!

Back on topic, i havent missed the trading skill at all. Early game, playing on impossible, cash is a bit of a worry but if you get some marauders, split them and use your pet dragon's find treasure ability, money can be accumulated just as quickly as in KB with the trading ability.

Later game, you'll have oodles of the stuff! There is a cool new artifact that gives you +5 intellect but -30% money from battles. I've been wearing that since level 15 and i still have over 1 million and a truckload of artifacts that can be converted to crystals if they're needed. :-P

[DGDobrev]

Actually, as Calinda suggested, you don't really need big tanks... All you need is a full stack of paladins and the phantom spell. Each phantom image can resurrect the orginal stack, so you will hardly ever come to some problems.

Paladins can be found very early in the game. The island should be called Scarlet wind. There is a Camp, guarded by a tough army, which is easy to kite away from it.

To get back on topic myself, I second the opinion that trading isn't that important. Money is plentiful in this game :)

[Zhuangzi]

For some reason I didn't get Phantom at all in my completed AP game, but I can see that using it on Paladins would be devastatingly effective. In fact, for a Warrior who doesn't really have the Mana to cast Resurrect a lot, Paladins and the Time Back spell more than compensate.

I agree that money is plentiful, at least on Hard. At the end of my game I still had pretty much every item I'd picked up, because I was loathe to sell them for such a miserable price. Still had plenty of money without selling them. That's a good idea about the Marauders finding money - I was using the Baby Dragon's treasure finding a lot in the early/mid game, until I realised it wasn't necessary anymore.

But it is a little disappointing to hear that no losses on Impossible is relatively doable. I think we all hoped that AP would be a little harder than TL, but I see no evidence of that. For me the fun is not in trying to complete the game in the quickest possible way, or with zero losses (although I may try this at some point), but simply to relax and have fun with the game, trying out different combinations of artifacts, spells and units. :)

[Dargor]

Paladins as most kinds of units are distributed in random manner so the camp referred by DGDobrev may do not have them. And they usually appear in the tower near the pier on first island when Hero get second quest stone.

[BB Shockwave]

Actually, as Calinda suggested, you don't really need big tanks... All you need is a full stack of paladins and the phantom spell. Each phantom image can resurrect the orginal stack, so you will hardly ever come to some problems.

Paladins can be found very early in the game. The island should be called Scarlet wind. There is a Camp, guarded by a tough army, which is easy to kite away from it.

To get back on topic myself, I second the opinion that trading isn't that important. Money is plentiful in this game :)

Behind Recruiter Norbu? I had Knights there.

Frankly if there is one thing I don't like in AP, is that you can easily get Level 4-5 units very early. I'm on level 10 only and I my army is composed of Trolls, Royal Griffins, Assassins, Guard and Engineer Droids. It's nice but makes you use low level units less often. For example, even on the first continent I found Royal Thorns...

Even if you want a full-undead army, the abandoned castle in the first Island (the hero guarding it can be defeated on level 5-6 already) sells Cursed Ghosts and Vampires. The abandoned chapel (an even easier fight) on Scarlet Wind sells Necromancers too (for me at least).

I think I will follow Zhuangzi's advice and kill the map-guarding units to get to the new continents early - want to try out the Pangolins. I think the spear-wielding lizardmen are awesome, especially their ability to attack two spaces and to get a new turn after killing a stack.

One bit of advice - the Journey Magic scroll "Birth of a Giant" gives you random 5 level units, as many as your leadership can hold. Even if you reload, it always gives you the same unit type - BUT! If you travel to a new continent and use it there, you will get a different unit - again, reloading won't change this. This might wary per each scroll - I only got one - but this was the list for me:

-Starting island: Emerald Green Dragons
-Scarlet Wind: Ogres
-Bolo: Trolls
-Rusty Anchor: Ancient Ents
-Verona: Red Dragons

One other thing to note - the enemy heroes are much more difficult then in Legend. Even a measily level 5-8 Pirate or Robber hero has like 70 mana (while as a Warrior, I only have 29) - granted, they have 1-2 intellect, but they will summon Phoenixes and Evil Books every round, or use Fit of Energy and God Armor...

My only big gripe about AP is the story. Frankly, it's less interesting then Legend was. You are thrust into the middle of things, and the main quest is very straight-lined. The headhunts are a nice nod to the original 1989 game (there is even a similar conspiracy against a king like in the old game), but this means most quests are "kill that guy over there" types, you don't even have to report back after the deed is done, you get the money and XP automatically (quick postal service! ;) ). Even if you go back to the questgiver, you cannot talk with them about the quests. I miss that aspect of the game.



I agree that money is plentiful, at least on Hard. At the end of my game I still had pretty much every item I'd picked up, because I was loathe to sell them for such a miserable price. Still had plenty of money without selling them. That's a good idea about the Marauders finding money - I was using the Baby Dragon's treasure finding a lot in the early/mid game, until I realised it wasn't necessary anymore.

I use that skill because the chests have a pretty good probability of containing runes, spells, even Journey Magic spells.

Btw, Trolls are a bit over-powered, they are almost unstoppable at night where they regenerate (with 780 HP that's a huge bonus). "Malignant" is also a great ability, meaning if a unit dies (not killed by spells but other units or your Dragon) the Troll gets +5 attack. Combined with Frenzy, my Trolls often have 80-90 attack by the end of the battle. The Boots of the Ogre are a necessary tool for them, though - it increases their speed too (4 at night, 3 at day). At day, they are slower but have 30% Fire and Physical resistance. Combined with a +15% Physical artifact, they take almost no damage from enemies...

[Zhuangzi]

About the story, I know I had the dodgy Google translation, but it was so boring that I usually didn't bother to read it at all. Just enough to not make a stupid decision in the actual conversation. This was the weakest part of KB:TL as well, so when you think they've been talking 10 months or so to translate it, well.... :rolleyes:

[DGDobrev]

Well, the Royal thorns are always there on the start island. I think they are supposed to be there. The number you get varies, but I have never seen less than 3 or more than 5. As for recruiter Norbu, the units in the camp vary. I have seen knights, paladins, bowmen, swordsmen... It depends. So I guess if someone wants a decent tank early on, saving the game right at the start and going over to the Scarlet Wind island to check what's in the camp doesn't hurt at all - oh, and while you're at it, you can check the tower in the graveyard and see if there are some Archmagi there. Archmagi + Paladins = easy no-loss victories early on :) That is especially useful if you're trying to beat the game with as few losses as possible or you're going for the leadership upgrade medals quickly (like in the first 50 battles). Generally, if you get enough leadership and make a dash to the camp and then to the tower you can get a nice amount of strong units that will shrug off most the enemy attacks in the early battles.

Still, I think this counts the most on Impossible :) The other difficulties will present easier going.

[Metroplex]

Zhuangzi, did you buy your copy of the Russian version at the IC store or another store? Can you post a link if so?
Most Russian new release games are very cheap and some come with both English and Russian translations, so you save a lot compared to if you bought it from the overpriced bricks and mortar stores.:)

There's only a week to go till release yet no sign of KB:AP anywhere...:(

[Zhuangzi]

Zhuangzi, did you buy your copy of the Russian version at the IC store or another store? Can you post a link if so?
Most Russian new release games are very cheap and some come with both English and Russian translations, so you save a lot compared to if you bought it from the overpriced bricks and mortar stores.:)

There's only a week to go till release yet no sign of KB:AP anywhere...:(

From the 1C store:

http://online.1c.ru/games/game/4030514/

For some reason, when I tried to access this again now, the whole online.1c site is listed as an attack site! But I ignored it. I used Google translate to navigate these pages. The game is 400 rubles, about $15 Aus :-P

About the release date, I think my prediction of Nov 11 may come into play after all, but that may be an optimistic date. I haven't seen anything about it anywhere either, but that doesn't mean it's vaporware. The thing that I find confusing now is that 1C said it was simply a matter of translation/localisation, but this process has taken longer for AP (a shorter game) than it did for TL. And as you know, the actual words in these games are the least important part. I still believe that the release has been deliberately held over to the holiday season to increase sales, which makes perfect sense, but I wish we had been told that 6+ months ago. :rolleyes:

EDIT: If that sounds like I'm complaining about blown release dates, I'm not. Of course I'm familiar with release dates slipping, but it does seem different when it's simply a matter of translation/localisation AND the exact same process has already been done for TL which is 90% the same game. So this situation isn't comparable with a normal game release (Diablo 3 etc) at all.

[DGDobrev]

You are very right to say these words, and they are completely true. The only thing that comes to mind is that 1C is working on other projects as well - and maybe this takes some of the time that should be allocated in KBAP and this is why the translation and fixes stall a bit.

*Discontent all around the forum because of this post*
**Yeah, easy for you to say, since you played it through a couple of times**
:)

[jake21]

1c is the publisher not the developer. What you say *might* be true; but it would apply to the developer :)

(unless it is the publisher who is doing the translation)

You are very right to say these words, and they are completely true. The only thing that comes to mind is that 1C is working on other projects as well - and maybe this takes some of the time that should be allocated in KBAP and this is why the translation and fixes stall a bit.

*Discontent all around the forum because of this post*
**Yeah, easy for you to say, since you played it through a couple of times**
:)

[Elwin]

I still believe in 30th october. Polish version releases today, i dont wanna be far behind mates bacause i choose english version :p

[Metroplex]

5 days to go!:grin:

[Elwin]

Not really