Question on kill Steals

[jkerr419]

I appologize for the rant but last night this was really getting on my nerves and I wanted to air it out and see if we can come to some kind of middle ground. So here is the story... (and it's not what most would think)

So last night I was playing a few Team Dogfights. Normally I'm not the strongest player in the room but in my last game the video game gods had lit a fire under me. The match has gone on about 5 mins and I had just respawned 5000 ft above the fur ball. A quick snap roll and I'm diving into the fight. Half way into my dive I see an enemy plane on the deck with his throttle firewalled. I adjust my angle (he was running perpendicular to me) and pull off one of the best timed turns in my life. It puts me less than a 100 yards on his six and I blast him. All of a sudden someone screams over the mic that I stole their kill. I appologized and explained that I didn't see him chasing him and let it go.

A few mins later I get locked in a very long figure 8 with another guy. We are making head on passes at high speed and then looping back into each other and repeating the process. On my third pass I get him and the same guy starts screaming that I stole his kill again. Now this time I did see him attacking the guy i was in a battle with but ignored him as HE had jumped into the fight well after we had started.

I few mins latter I forget that I'm flying the 109 and jump right into the furball and am in a rolling scissors with a spit. I'm in my third roll (hoping the forth roll spits that spit in front of me) and a Yak over shoots. Holding my roll i kick the rudder and finish the Yak with one quick burst. This time another guy comes yelling over the mic that I stole his kill. Now I realize he may have been chasing the Yak but what am i supposed to do when a plane fills my gun sights....

This repeats the entire game. I do not want to be known as the kill stealer. I'm not shooting over anyones shoulder and I am not going after smokers. The planes I go after have full health. My question is does this fit the bill for kill stealing? And does it still count if you watch your team amte shoot at someone for ten mins and not hit anything and you swoop in for the assist?

Now after giving the game some thought I have come to the conclusion that it's my tactics that may be giving this impression. For the most part I refuse to turnfight. I like my 109 and while it can hang in for one or two quick turns...anything after that gets dicey. I ZnB and that's it. I see a target or the fur ball, dive on it, pick my target, make a pass and get out. If I see someone latched onto someone I will not go after them. I will even peal off a target if I swoop in and someone calls him.


So in the end dows this count as kill stealing and is there anything that I could do differnt to avoid this?

[Ancient Seraph]

Technically.. I'd say yes, it can be considered as kill stealing. However, if I'm flying my La after some guy for a minute, and some B&Z'er comes in and shoots him I wouldn't blame him. I'd probably be a bit pissed, but that's how B&Z works, and I should've just shot him earlier.
Kill stealing in BoP is something that just happens, and nobody can blame someone for killstealing unless it's shouldershooting or shooting at smoking/spinning planes. Ignore everyone who says differently.

[mattmanB182]

Dude, dont worry about it. If a plane gets in front of me, I shoot it.

If its obvious to me that someone has a target almost down, I will not fire, but its not usually easy to tell.

You are not a mind reader, and you cant see your team mates screens.

They will get over it and if not then they are poor sports.

[Ju-87]

This is why I really would like that this game had a point/assist system similar to COD (or was it Battlefield?). Anyway.

10 points for who ever gets the kill. The rest gets points based on % of damage inflicted divided by 10, rounded down... Or something like that.
(So if someone deals 90% of damage to an enemy but doesn't get the kill he would still get 9 assist points.)

This would of course be trickier to implement in a game like this where the damage model is more complex than simple "health", but I'm sure something could be worked out. Maybe for a sequel?

[mattd27]

I wouldn't worry so much about it. If I see a plane I chase it and shoot it down. Half the time it was that guy who probably didn't see that you were already there.

Now like others have said, this doesn't apply if your waiting behind someone waiting for them to do the meat of the fighting then swooping in to take the kill. But I think if you know your playing cleanly, don't worry about it.

[DoraNine]

Dude,
First of all -- there's no such thing as "kill stealing", if they can't finish the job -- it's your obligation to do so for them:grin:

There are alot of guys who choose to fly the "nibblers", like Hurricanes, I-16s, etc -- because they like to turn-fight. Like you, I fly the 109s and have my hands full getting a shot on these guys -- but when I do hit something (in the G6 and K-4) it usually dies. It's not your fault that it takes them 10,000 rounds to bring a plane down -- they need to fly something with more firepower if they're worried about someone finishing a plane that they've been nibbling on.

At the end of the day -- its just a video game anyway -- for relaxing and having fun. Anybody who yells at you for any reason is a tool. Either yell back at them -- or just switch off your mic. I usually just laugh into the mic when someone says something stupid:-P

[TRC Subaru]

J, you also have to remember the Team Battles I believe you are talking about contained a full 16 player room…which was total madness…I didn’t know who was shooting who! There were tracers flying everywhere! You can’t expect to not accidentally target someone else’s “kill” in a battle like that…:confused:

[mdbuehler]

Dude,
First of all -- there's no such thing as "kill stealing", if they can't finish the job -- it's your obligation to do so for them:grin:


What he said! Either shoot the guy down, or get out of my way and let me finish the job! ;)

I'm sure back in the war guys weren't getting mad that somebody else put rounds into a plane that was trying to kill you both anyway :) Folks go on about 'kill stealing' in most of the FPS I play too, and I just ignore them. First to finish the job wins in my book! Letting an enemy stay alive and a threat just so somebody else can get points doesn't make sense, and from a team playing perspective its quite selfish on there part. I've gotten several kills while being chased and shot apart by somebody on my tail.

I'd feel like a bit of a jerk if another of my teammates was shot down by my quarry because I refused to let anybody else who had a shot finish him off before I could.

[Tudorp15]

It happens to me all the time. Mainly because I am not that great at dog fighting. It is common knowlege for the most part that my game is CTA, and strike. I hit grounded aircraft pretty good and pretty lethal in that game. But air to air, I am sure it is pretty painful for some of the better air fighters to watch me beat on someone for a couple minutes, and still not get a kill. It irritates me when a hot rod swoops down and takes my kill, especially when they are smoking. But, if they are not, I think they are not smoking I think they can be considered fair game. I see some smokers, and if I don't notice someone in pursuit of them, I will go for that easy kill, but if I see someone in battle with them already, I will move on to someone else. But sometimes, in the "Fog Of War" it will happen and simply not intesional. I try not to get too upset if a kill is taken from me, unless it was so obvious there was no way they could think it was a fair snatch..

As in another thread I had started, it happens in Strikes too.. I don't want to re go over what I posted in the other thread, but, banging the hell out of a ground target, for someone to swoop in and drop one bomb and getting the credit for a destroyed ground target does get to me..

[Hrok81]

It happens sometimes I chase a plane for a while and a teammate comes, scores a kill and goes away.
Honestly speaking, it doesn't bother me too much. Of course I'd like to be the one who shoots down the enemy plane and gets the score (I agree 100% about rewarded assist kills), but then it's my skills that have to be improved, I can't blame a pilot just because he's better than me at shooting.
"Next time kill will be mine" that's all I think. To me team comes first.

Still, if I see a smoking plane, I usually don't try to finish it off (I think i did once or twice tho, in the rage of battle might happen).

My two cents:)

Ps. if you all are using headsets, what's better than communicate during dogfight in order to coordinate action and prevent such situations?

[Tudorp15]

Sometimes, the headsets are used just to yell at each other either justified or not. Fortunatly, the bunch of guys I fly with, tend to go into a party chat, and have a blast. Yeah, we yell at each other sometimes, but it is in jest, and taken as such. Many times, we are on separate teams, but still remain in the same party chat, so we get to banter each other as well. It is loads of fun if you get a bunch of guys that don't take the game too seriously, and have allot of fun with each other...

[Ancient Seraph]

(...)
Ps. if you all are using headsets, what's better than communicate during dogfight in order to coordinate action and prevent such situations?
Quite impossible in sim :P. 'I'm chasing the Spit, don't shoot it!' 'Which of the five?' 'The one with the red paint on it's wing!' 'Right..'

Off-topic: Nice sig Tudorp, you made it? (New part ;))

[dazz1971]

kill stealing? bull**** mate if a plane is filling your gun sight shoot that mofo down after all its one step closer to victory for your team and thats what counts just unplug your mic if ppl start yelling anyway having no comms = less lag :grin:

[Tudorp15]

yeah, I made them... I made a couple and couldn't decide which to put on my sig, so I just combined two of them.. lol..

Thanks..

[Lexandro]

Kill stealing is frankly nonsense.

If a pilot can't take an aircraft down in the first 30 seconds of gunfire then he has a crap aim, and doesnt deserve the kill. The planes are fragile, they were called crates for a good reason.

If someones shooting at me and I make a move and take them out and a team member bitches about a kill "theft" I ignore them totally, because they are a fraking liability. Wingmen should be taking them out BEFORE they can get on your 6.

And if an enemy is trailing smoke and has a friendly on his 6, then its my job to GAURD that friendly to ensure a kill. That is, up until the 30 second mark I mentioned earlier.

These are the "rules" I fly by and it holds me in good stead.

[baldwin8]

First off, if someone is really worried about someone else stealing kills, then let them go setup their own match with just two people, settled.

I actual combat, this went on regularly, it's called shared kills, it's in all the history books, read about it.

Not all players are on the same skill level, and like me struggle just to achieve the few kills we have, it's just a game.

[InfiniteStates]

Kill stealing doesn't really bother me anymore. It used to when I was a noob or was going for unlocks involving kill counts, but not anymore.

These days I realise you're much better serving the team (and ironically much more likely to get a lot more kills) if, when you see a team mate chasing the enemy, you sit above and behind him ready to clean up anyone going after your team mate.

Two planes chasing the same target are likely to attempt to occupy the same space at the same time. Physics, in game or not, tends to not allow this :)

[Ancient Seraph]

Kill stealing doesn't really bother me anymore. It used to when I was a noob or was going for unlocks involving kill counts, but not anymore.

These days I realise you're much better serving the team (and ironically much more likely to get a lot more kills) if, when you see a team mate chasing the enemy, you sit above and behind him ready to clean up anyone going after your team mate.

Two planes chasing the same target are likely to attempt to occupy the same space at the same time. Physics, in game or not, tends to not allow this :)

Unless we go with one of guilty's suggestions and make planes able to fly through eachother :D. That would not encourage shouldershooting at all :rolleyes:.

[beaker126]

I think it's just a fact of life with this game. It happens, and I think to a certain extent we all give and recieve with this. Doesn't piss me off, I know I'm not gonna get the unlocks done before the Update's out anyway:oops:

[Hrok81]

...

These days I realise you're much better serving the team (and ironically much more likely to get a lot more kills) if, when you see a team mate chasing the enemy, you sit above and behind him ready to clean up anyone going after your team mate.

...



100% true.
Infinite has saved my a** countless times by checking my six while I was chasing other planes, doing good for the team and scoring kills too.

Good point Seraph (about the mic), it would probably be quite messy. Still I think it might be possible in small games (I tried once and worked quite good, but maybe was just good luck :))

[ChankyChank]

If you're talking about team matches (everything except dogfight) it shouldn't matter who gets the kill, the team still gets the victory. At the end of the match it doesn't matter which player has the most kills as long as your team is the winning team. Whoever is whining about kill stealing should've finished the job themselves if they're that concerned with it. And besides, it doesn't matter anyway, theres no leaderboards on player match (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that ever plays ranked sim matches) so who cares who gets credit.

[jkerr419]

Thanks guys! I really wasn't complaining....but wanted to get an idea of your guys' opinion on the issue. Thanks again.

[TURBOTIM007]

I don't think what you did would be considered as a kill stealer. I guess what can be done in the future is call out your target. My experiance that I have is the guys I fly with will ask me if I'm having difficulty finishing the job if I need help. One night I said yes, I put a factory of bullets at my target and was taking fire from enemy plane on my six making it hard for me to finish taking out my target, it was respect they showed by asking. In your case this guy didn't call out his target, or he should have said something before you started in. With so many planes flying just be happy your shooting them down.

[FOZ_1983]

How can you steal his kill if he's not yet dead?

Ignore it, i would. If they were that good or even half decent or had any understanding what so ever then they would -

a) of killed the target quicker (based on what you say)
b) be glad the enemy has been destroyed by someone and gained the "team" a kill


You'll notice that this is a pretty mature forum and the majority of players are decent and dont shout their mouths off. They know what they are talking about and help out where they can. Just sounds like you got the shitty end of the stick and got stuck with the kids unfortunately.

[Robotic Pope]

I don't mind people taking my kills in team battle, I might say something like "Awww you steal my kill" but I only say it jokingly.
What does piss me off is the numpties on my team that try to shoot the guy that i'm behind while they are behind me. I get a big dose of friendly fire and can't fly anymore and then my so called "team mate" moves in on my kill.