Problems with turrets

[Tiwatz]

Ok- straight to the point. The Ball turret in the B17G doesn't work, or at least cannot cover the bottom hemisphere of the plane like it should. The Dorsal turret doesn't rotate 360 degrees like it should either. Neither do the dorsal turrets on the Blenheim and and A20... will this be fixed so that we have realistic defensive gunnery coverage?

[iannik]

I hope will be fixed, like I hope we will see cockpits for A-20, H-111 and all the small bombers.

However , I am semi-OT but I noticed gunners cannot be killed, aren't you? I treid a training mission P-51 vs h-111 trying to kill only the dorsal gunner but he continued to fire...

[Tiwatz]

However , I am semi-OT but I noticed gunners cannot be killed, aren't you? I treid a training mission P-51 vs h-111 trying to kill only the dorsal gunner but he continued to fire...

yeah I noticed that too... the only crew that seem to be mortal are the pilots themselves.:confused:

[Lexandro]

If the B-17 had full turret coverage in the game it would make it 50x harder to kill it or even get near it. The devs have limited the turrets abilities to make the game more balanced.

[Tiwatz]

If the B-17 had full turret coverage in the game it would make it 50x harder to kill it or even get near it. The devs have limited the turrets abilities to make the game more balanced.

if they simply made the gunners killable then they would need to screw up the planes.

[Lexandro]

if they simply made the gunners killable then they would need to screw up the planes.

Ok so your a master coder then? You know exactly how to code it so that there are gunners and they can die? Thought not. Dont make dispariging remarks about the devs when you cant do the job yourself. Its not exactly easy to model in that kind of thing. Plus it gives the game a huge balance issue when bomber gunner positions are no longer functional.

[iannik]

Ok so your a master coder then? You know exactly how to code it so that there are gunners and they can die? Thought not. Dont make dispariging remarks about the devs when you cant do the job yourself. Its not exactly easy to model in that kind of thing. Plus it gives the game a huge balance issue when bomber gunner positions are no longer functional.

I think anyone is free to speak here even remark if in disappoint. If not, this community will never grow up like this game will never grow up.

[P-51]

Ok so your a master coder then? You know exactly how to code it so that there are gunners and they can die? Thought not. Dont make dispariging remarks about the devs when you cant do the job yourself. Its not exactly easy to model in that kind of thing. Plus it gives the game a huge balance issue when bomber gunner positions are no longer functional.

Cant they just copy and paste the code for the pilots?

[Lexandro]

Cant they just copy and paste the code for the pilots?

No, its a seperate function iirc. Its not as simple as that, it never is im afraid.

[P-51]

No, its a seperate function iirc. Its not as simple as that, it never is im afraid.

ohh ok lol im no master of coding lol - far from it

[Lexandro]

ohh ok lol im no master of coding lol - far from it

Neither am I bud, but Ive done some coding in the past and I know how tricky certain aspects can be, especially when it comse to things like hit locations and hit boxes in a MP game.

[Tiwatz]

Ok so your a master coder then? You know exactly how to code it so that there are gunners and they can die? Thought not. Dont make dispariging remarks about the devs when you cant do the job yourself. Its not exactly easy to model in that kind of thing. Plus it gives the game a huge balance issue when bomber gunner positions are no longer functional.

Hmmm, really? Seems to work pretty well in all the other IL-2 games... and no- I don't know how to code- but I do know that the entire rest of the series has killable gunners.

[Lexandro]

Hmmm, really? Seems to work pretty well in all the other IL-2 games... and no- I don't know how to code- but I do know that the entire rest of the series has killable gunners.

Those titles are all PC games. Consoles are a totally different ball game, which many a dev house has found out to its demise. As I said, unless you yourself know how to code them in to the console game, make it balanced, and bug free then your free to make dispariging remarks on how the game was developed and released.

[Lexandro]

Also I would also like to point out that currently the B-17 is (ingame) a tough nut to crack, due to its huge firepower. Many pilots are having issues taking them on in games as it is, and you want them to be further "improved" over the current setup. This would create major issues for any pilot playing in MP, as the gunners positions auto-fire at targets in there proximity. With full coverage that the real B-17 has, ingame this would make it almost impossible to attack from a blind spot as there really would not be any.

It would be far to powerful a tool online, and one that would really upset the balance of the game as it is.

[Tiwatz]

Also I would also like to point out that currently the B-17 is (ingame) a tough nut to crack, due to its huge firepower. Many pilots are having issues taking them on in games as it is, and you want them to be further "improved" over the current setup. This would create major issues for any pilot playing in MP, as the gunners positions auto-fire at targets in there proximity. With full coverage that the real B-17 has, ingame this would make it almost impossible to attack from a blind spot as there really would not be any.

It would be far to powerful a tool online, and one that would really upset the balance of the game as it is.

pardon me for saying this- but 'many' pilots online suck. I've had no issues downing B17s. The pathetic turrets for all bombers in game are of no help to most people. The gunners (though accurate they are) fire far to little and don't open up soon enough. The B17's defensive coverage is a joke in game. I frequently kill them with only a few rounds (the damage systems for the B17 are not very good either) and have no answer from it's myriad of heavy machine guns whatsoever. They generally don't fire until I'm within 300 meters. By then it's too late.

[Lexandro]

Yup many pilots do suck, I myself already noted this and made mention of the fact a while ago. However what you have to bear in mind is the "general level" as it were, of the playerbase.

As anyone here will point out, most of the online gaming is Arcade or Realistic levels. "Flight Sim" is a Niche genre and always has been, where as arcade based flight games have a much larger audience. Don't get me wrong, Ive no problems myself taking out B-17's, or any aircraft in the game to be frank. I also play flight sim games on my PC, so I have plenty of experience in that respect. However, BoP is now a console title so allowances have to be made.

What it basically boils down to is that console developers have to cater to the widest audience, and that includes all the crap players you get on a console. And they outnumber us good pilots. Now the current amount of players online is such that people are having problems getting to play a game. As it is now, many players will simply quit a game with a B-17 in it because they feel it is far superior and extremely difficult for them to take on. Making it anymore effective in firepower could force many more out of the game making the airfract effectively pointless to choose.

*EDIT* would also like to note that when I mentioned the autofire of the turrets it wasnt about how they can actually take you out. It was rather in the respect that when playing online players try to sneak up on an enemy before getting a killshot. Due to the current blind spots of the B-17 this is possible to do. With full turrent coverage this would be next to impossible.

[dazz1971]

Also I would also like to point out that currently the B-17 is (ingame) a tough nut to crack, due to its huge firepower. Many pilots are having issues taking them on in games as it is,

really?? i shot one down in a strike mission with a bf110 from the gunners seat at quite a distance too, also ive shot down afew in my la-7 too its not that hard really just go head on with them aim for an engine and watch the fireworks :)

[Lexandro]

As I said in my later post, I myself have no problems with them (B-17) or any other aircraft in the game. Personally I favour a rising inverted attack from the side, so that I can rake across the wings and thereby take out the engines. If I get shot at, I can simply pull on the stick and go back in to a dive and break off.

That said though, remember that the B-17 is getting its damaged model tweaked. So that in conjuction with a turret tweak could make it overpowered for many other players.

[Tiwatz]

What it basically boils down to is that console developers have to cater to the widest audience, and that includes all the crap players you get on a console. And they outnumber us good pilots. Now the current amount of players online is such that people are having problems getting to play a game. As it is now, many players will simply quit a game with a B-17 in it because they feel it is far superior and extremely difficult for them to take on. Making it anymore effective in firepower could force many more out of the game making the airfract effectively pointless to choose.

Touche'. Well then- I think the best multiplayer game would be the hardest to produce for this title then.... Perhaps one large room per gametype? When you join an online game you can join while it is already in session... i think a persistent server for each gametype would solve a lot of multiplayer issues. One should be able to start their own game still- but imagine if you could just go online and join a dogfight that was running all the time, or perhaps reset every couple hours or so. that would fix the issues with some of the planes then too... If you had a persistent world and a larger number of max players, people in B17s wouldn't be so overpowering... though they could, theoretically, fly in formations- the likelyhood of a bunch of console gamers cooperating like that is slim to none.

Anyways- making the B17 realistically effective without burning out the hopes and dreams of the vast craptastic console gaming community basically revolves around a larger number of aircraft in each multiplayer game... then the strengths and weaknesses of each individual aircraft wouldn't be so apparent. It doesn't suck that a B17 can kill 200 tickets in a single bombing run unless your on the other team and don't have the ability to score more than one point a time. So, to solve that issue, make the strike missions have WAY more targets... including trucks and tanks- things that even fighters can kill with their guns. Make point value for aircraft depend on the class of aircraft. For instance a heavy bomber can cost 5 tickets or something.

I guess I'm getting a bit off-topic now so I'll stop. It just pisses me off that the entire gaming community has to dumb itself down for the masses- I understand it... I just don't like.

[Tiwatz]

You know come to think of it- It doesn't seem like it should be hard to make gunners killable...
Once you hit other parts of the planes they have certain effects like smoke or engine failure or what have you- and the model changes to reflect this. why can't they just do the same thing- you hit a certain spot on the plane and the result is that the gunner behind that spot dies... the model could even change to reflect it- ie. big holes appear in the dorsal turret and it sticks in one direction... or perhaps even the ball turret could simply be ripped apart if it were hit... imagine the B17's tail gunner's model change to reflect a hit- it is the closest to the camera in game, so it would be the easiest to see.

[beaker126]

What might be easier, and would still be a HUGE step up, would be if they could patch the turret guns so they'd overheat, same as a fighters. That I think, would even things up a bit. And it'd be realistic, gotta change ammo belts sometime.