The silence is deafening...

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

sums up my feelings very well . thanks

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by orpheus

that would be a terrible loss in my opinion, and frankly the dev team need to grow a much thicker skin if that really is the case. The raging we've seen on this forum is nothing compared to the great majority of other game forums, where opinions tend to be even more polarised and antagonistic, often outright insulting. If you can't take the heat, you shouldn't be in the kitchen - they must have known what kind of response the game would receive in the early stages and prepared themselves for that. To drop communication now because a few idiots have been a bit nasty to them would be childish, irresponsible and insulting to the people who've paid for the game.

And, as another poster mentioned, not communicating because your players are angry just makes them even more angry, so it becomes a vicious circle that will only end when you grow some balls and take the criticism - which, had you communicated in the first place, probably wouldn't be as bad.


Another point - yes, 1c are the russian publisher, and we know ubi are responsible for international publishing and distribution.

However - we come here because it is the best way of getting information straight from the people making the game, and because sukhoi.ru is inaccessible for many of us due to the language barrier. If luthier & the team posted on the ubi forums, i expect most of us would be there instead. The only beta patch links posted on the ubi forums that i can see have been users linking to this forum, not dev posts - so for now the ubi forums are 'useful' only for user chat about the game, not finding out actual info on progress or other technical issues. If the dev team stop posting here too, the game will die off completely - as very few will be willing to wait in the dark for the myriad technical bugs and problems to be fixed, not knowing if a fix will even happen.

When/if the us release hits this weekend, we're going to see the moaning increase tenfold as they go through all the same crap we've had since release. If the dev team couldn't cope with the 'negativity' before now, come monday it'll be ten times worse.

From a personal standpoint, if the devs do act like children and refuse to provide at least some information on their progress, i for one will never play clod again - because to release a game in this state, followed by several patches that in most cases break as much as they fix (if user reports are accurate), and then to just clam up because people are angry is the very height of stupidity and arrogance. I'll have no dealings with a company that refuses to communicate with its customers, or one that slinks off and hides when the going gets tough - especially when the problems are almost entirely of their own making.

+1000

[JG52Uther]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

Post of the month (at least) Luthier take note.

[furbs]

post of the last 4 months, should be a sticky in case Luthier misses it.

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

Wonderful post, Luthier, read this post and then read it again, then make your staff read it.



Also, Luthier, please tell us that you arn't going to release CLOD in America with broken MP sound and no cooperative play? Surely you wont make this dumb move will you?

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

As many people here know, I've always been a defender of Oleg and his team and I was convinced CloD would be the next step into a new dimension of flightsims.

I'm very sorry to admit, that I was totally wrong. And saying so, I'm not sorry I held such high stakes on MG, but because our favorite game died in a matter of days. And our faith, even mine, died in the following weeks of total silence.

So what do we have now? A nice screenshot-generator, if at all.

IMHO worst-case-scenario are the 2 addons mentioned already. If these will be pay-for-addon that are needed to make CloD playworth, than this is probably seen as the worst ripp-off in the gaming history and the definite end of a legend. Please don't make this mistake.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

It's a bunch of crap that 1C is so busy that they do not have time to post something on these boards at least once a week----total lies

I too am completely and utterly disappointed about CoD and how it looks for its future This one is just going to fade away I am afraid.

Its not going to fade away but even I, who usually see these kind of threads as yet another "whine parade", is starting to think its a tad wierd that not a single word is posted, especially so close to the supposed US release. Its even more weird since we all KNOW they are working on it.

If nothing else, until CoD is fixed, and it will be, it creates unnecessary negative vibes. Last update with "meet the team" shows that MOST people don't ask for much.

Just to be extra clear, its not gonnna fade away but the absence of communication until its fixed cause unnecessary hohaw. Im sure that in a year or so all this will be "forgotten" (believe it or not) because we will all be busy reading updates of comming new stuff and play the game. . If the same kind of communication is uphold however, well, then its a completely different matter.

A few words goes a long way.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

Even though i can stop and disagree and debate with words or comparisons made in your post (what would be the point though) i get what u are saying, and sadly, i agree. Your last part, i think, kind of explains why people are so disappointed as it stands now.

I know we will all look back at this and remember it as a bad dream, but until then i feel we are forced to sleep and dream much, much more than we should have to. (makes no sence, i know)

[addman]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

Wow, thank you Grunch. Now I don't need to post anything here until the game is in good shape because you just summed everything I feel and think up in a nice little package. I could feel my guts turning whilst reading it. Stellar post, unfortunately.

[RocketDog]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't played for months simply because there are too many and too frequent niggles, large and small, that make this game unfit for purpose to me. I've put down my money for a collectors' edition and a standard copy, and I'll be waiting for the occasion when it's more functional, stable and playable, but until Cliffs of Dover is up to scratch and they have proved they can release a game in a worthy state, it's safe to say I won't be buying any further releases from the company.

IL-2 is still a thousand times more fun to play than this game at the moment. The AI is less retarded (which disappointingly REALLY isn't saying anything at all if you look at one of my posts in the bug thread), the graphics are less glitchy if also marginally (and I mean marginally) less pretty, the aircraft seem to have been reasonably well researched in performance for the theatres that they are intended to depict, the radio works and the multiplayer is not only usable *at all* but also extremely functional. The flight model is more challenging, particularly where landings are concerned. In fact, even the ballistics seem more challenging. .303s in CloD are pretty much lasers. It's hard to miss. There is also an excellent third-party dynamic campaign engine that can be used not only offline but online, making the whole concept of "online offline" that Oleg was pitching for CloD fairly old and unsurprising to be honest. The MDS also offers far better options for dogfight servers. Most of all, Daidalos Team are continuing to support the game with a great deal of success and while introducing some FAR reaching changes and gigantic revisions to the game managed to introduce NO severe bugs at all, and the remaining minor solvable problems on both occasions were fixed in bugfix patches that not only actually fixed the initial problem, as CloD's bugfix patches often failed to do, but ALSO introduced no additional problems.

At the moment there is simply no reason for me to play CloD over IL-2 other than a tiny bit of eye-candy - higher poly models, a scant few shaders and better view distances - and even that has often been tainted by weird glitches. To be honest I have never played through the campaign because the last time I played it you couldn't save your progress, you had to play the whole campaign in a single sitting. There simply hasn't been anything that has kept me playing through a whole mission without any sense of purpose or control or interaction with my wingmen or ground controllers and the impossibility of playing large raids on medium-level specs (at least the last time I played), which is why I purchased this game in the first place, because the Battle of Britain is the very epitome of such an exercise of large-scale teamwork from the perspective of both sides.
The things that attracted me to this game were not the graphical overhaul but the promise of increased depth and functionality which has simply not emerged, except in the case of the extremely flaky complex engine management, which seems extremely temperamental, alternating between bouts of being far too forgiving and bouts of the opposite, and the DM, which is honestly very impressive and clever as you might expect from Il-2's successor. That and being able to click on some switches now and then, which I honestly never really cared about anyway.

Likewise, I don't think my dad (who got me into flightsims when I was a kid) has bothered either for a month or so, silently preferring to stick with BoBII:WoV and its various updates as a Battle of Britain simulation.

The danger for this game is not so much the negative feedback, it's all the people like me that are so disappointed that we don't even feel the need to throw effort after bad money and are gradually ceasing to care about the distant possibility that the game will become as functional as Il-2 was in even 2003, let alone the desire to buy any further products.

In fact the only reason I bothered to visit the forum tonight was to see whether there has been an update released in the past few weeks since my last check that even fixes something so basic as radio commands.

Not to mention the fact that my visits to the forum are now so rare that I probably won't see all of the over-protective indignation that will continue to fill this thread after and perhaps even in response to my post.

Bottom line is, it's just so disappointing. You fire the game up and play and you see this shining promise of brilliance showing through EVERYWHERE, and I mean EVERYWHERE! Look at the detail of the cockpits, the minutely adjustable gunsights, the fantastically detailed engine systems management, the glass reflections, the flapping scraps of canvas, the beautiful models that capture the aircraft so well, from the 109's promise of calculating, patient menace and the steady, solid charm and grit of the Hurricane, even just the way the sky actually looks and the fact that the LOD transitions are less abrupt, and the increasingly promising and stable terrain and ground objects. But then you actually try to play the game for any length of time and it just becomes a chore dealing with all of the bugs and omissions and the fact that when it comes to actually simulating aerial combat the game has only the basic mechanics of controlling the aircraft modelled to any degree and beyond that there really isn't anything else.

That's my take on it anyway, more wistful and disappointed than rage and vitriol, I'm afraid.

Exactly.