Friday 2009-10-23 Screenshots Update discussion thread

[*Buzzsaw*]

Hello Oleg

We on the West Coast of N America always seem to miss your online times, our posts get lost I think.

I am reposting something, I had on the other thread, hope you can answer.

Hello Oleg

Everything is superb. Absolutely wonderful.

Congratulations to you and your team. This game will be a revolution.

One question: Are there any plans for Force Feedback which focuses on the effects of flight?

By that I mean force feedback which is tuned to highlight the Buffeting, turbulence and other effects which can allow a player in front of a computer to get a sense of how well his aircraft is flying. Effects from firing the guns, or from being hit are not as important.

With this very obviously complex flight model, a system of feedback which can allow the player to get a 'seat of the pants' feel for how well he is flying and whether or not he is coming close to his stall point, etc. would be helpful.

I am sure you will make the trim status of an aircraft a real issue in this game.

There are now some mechanical devices which can be bought and which can translate sound into vibration feedback, but when they are sent a sound signal which includes engine noise, and other less important sounds, they are not very useful. Ideally they need to be sent a signal which focuses on the sounds which tell the player how well the aircraft is being flown. If your team can isolate the buffeting, turbulence, and other sounds relating to the aerodynamic status of the aircraft this would be helpful.

Here is one of the companies which manufacture these feedback devices:

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gaming/index.htm

And of course, there are the normal force feedback joysticks.

Thanks again for your excellent work, everyone who has watched you for the last 12 years knows that you will produce in SOW, a brilliant game which will make even your masterpiece IL-2 take a step back into the shadows.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell

Most modern fighter aircraft have the trim on the joystick's head

Who said they were going for modern? Or indeed fighter aircraft? Trim wheels are more realistic for many more applications than trim on a hat. Calling something realistic because it doesn't apply to a small proportion of aircraft is just odd. You may as well say that trim is unrealistic because ultra-modern aircraft trim themselves. Besides, there's nothing stopping you from using a hat on the G940 for trim, is there? Looks to me like they just covered all the bases.

f

Originally Posted by flyingblind

It all looks superb. One thing does trouble me slightly though. In the views looking down on the landscape there are some very prominant and distinctive tracks in the fields. These could only have been made by modern tractors using wide crop spraying booms. These would not have existed in the 1940's when there were still more horses than tractors working the land and the chemicals had not been invented so no crops would have been sprayed. This is a silly point perhaps or maybe important considering the incredible amount of detail and historical accuracy you are striving for and achieving in other areas. Historically its a bit like including a six lane motorway in the maps. I understand it's taken from a satilite shot so maybe its there as a mockup and won't be in the final game.

I know exactly where your coming from mate, Imagine the dissappointment of finding yourself being involved in a high speed low altitude bare knuckle dogfight with a wonderfully modeled and detailed 109 thats being handled by a rather skilled pilot, eventually you get the better of him having seen parts of his aircraft fall away and fuel leaking from his tanks, you break off knowing he wont make it back, then as you glance down to get your bearings you notice that Oleg has modeled in some tracks that could only be made from modern wide boom crop spraying farm machinery. This would ruin the experience for me completely and make me reconsider my purchase of this sim.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Who said they were going for modern? Or indeed fighter aircraft? Trim wheels are more realistic for many more applications than trim on a hat. Calling something realistic because it doesn't apply to a small proportion of aircraft is just odd. You may as well say that trim is unrealistic because ultra-modern aircraft trim themselves. Besides, there's nothing stopping you from using a hat on the G940 for trim, is there? Looks to me like they just covered all the bases.

Grunch, well, I've saw Mark's interview. He says that if we look at an aircraft (not mentioning the type), it would have trimming dials...

And, well, I don't recall seing any aircraft with such sort of dials.

[robtek]

A cessna 172 i.e. has a vertikal wheel for elevator, a rotating knob for rudder for shure and i think a horizontal wheel for aileron trim.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell

Grunch, well, I've saw Mark's interview. He says that if we look at an aircraft (not mentioning the type), it would have trimming dials...

And, well, I don't recall seing any aircraft with such sort of dials.

Well, they're on a much larger scale, of course. Hard to fit a full size trim-wheel on a HOTAS. I believe Mark Starrett is very into civilian simming, so I guess he's likely to mean in a civilian prop plane. Even in IL-2, though, have a look in the Spitfire, P-51 or P-40 cockpit for good examples.
From a Cessna 172:

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Originally Posted by crazyivan1970

Bah! need a napkin?

He's baaaa-aaaak

[TooCool]

about trim... using a switch means using and electric motor to move the trim tabs... back in WWII, I seriously doubt you had even ONE aircraft using switches for trim, rather than a wheel one...

[MudMarine]

Before people open their mouths and spout off random bovine scatology about this and that, they should donate a $1 to Oleg's son's college fund. Until then, they haven't earned the right to be critical of anything but themselves.

My take.

Mud

Originally Posted by krz9000

the attentionspan in this forum seems to be even shorter then on youtube, doh.

first: oleg tells us that the colors are to be tweaked...and then i see one post after another that the colors are ALL WRONG. why so many people these days need to open their mouth if they have nothing to say.

this update is clearly an engine demo and not to show off the recreation of britian in its true colors.

you should point your attention to:

- normalmaped landscape and game objects
- hdri lighting
- (hardware) geometry instances (trees, grass)
- lots of cloud particles
- great attention to details from the modelling team
- curved roads (based on projected splines?)
- landclasses for terrain?
- realtime shadows with self-shadowing even on alphatextured geo (grass)
- great view-distance
- clever LODs (e.g. grass only visible when it makes sense)

hdri lighting alows for great lighting changes and affects the complete scene. at sunset everything gets a orange hue, at noon a more blueish look.

seems like there are also post-fx like object-based motion-blur. (camera motion-blur too?)
add in some vignetting and a DOF and things will look very good.

dont let youself be fooled by the crazy colors you see here. the features that make a great render are all there it seems...and this is much more important then to show a landscape that looks like britain. (content can be done by the comunity if it might suck,...the core engine not)

so lets be happy and not fall for pointless topics/wishes like vegetation grow based on weather data...doh, its nice to see olegs creation inspire people but wishes should stay reasonable i think. the holodeck is not around the corner...and oleg is not trying to build it anyway.

my questions:

- do clouds cast realtime shadows
- will there be volumetric effects? (sunbeams through clouds,...)
- do you plan to show lots of situationbased post fx e.g. wounds that cause blurred/darker/reddish vision or stronger vignetting, stronger blurring of the vignette with higher speeds?
- are instanced geometries collisionobjects (trees)


ps: i created a google wave for STORM OF WAR you can find it by searching for "group:storm-of-war@googlegroups.com"

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by MudMarine

Before people open their mouths and spout off random bovine scatology about this and that, they should donate a $1 to Oleg's son's college fund. Until then, they haven't earned the right to be critical of anything but themselves.

Bah, let people make their criticisms. It'll be all the more satisfying when they have to eat their words. Not that anyone will remember any of them, since they'll be playing the sim.
Besides, I doubt there are many people on this forum who neither own IL-2 or any of its expansions nor intend to buy SoW.