4.13 development update discussion and feedback - Page 5

Royzewic · #1 06-16-2014, 07:33 PM

Hi everyone and the Team! I experienced the Lavochkins are so... bugged or something, when they climbing vertical they still getting energy for 1-2 seconds, or don't lose any at least.
I'm playing IL-2 1946 since 3 years, told to myself -No, it cannot be- and other vulgar words in my language, but it's very annoying. So, please fix this flight model if is there a way.

Best Regards:
Royzewic

Treetop64 · #2 06-17-2014, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royzewic

Hi everyone and the Team! I experienced the Lavochkins are so... bugged or something, when they climbing vertical they still getting energy for 1-2 seconds, or don't lose any at least.
I'm playing IL-2 1946 since 3 years, told to myself -No, it cannot be- and other vulgar words in my language, but it's very annoying. So, please fix this flight model if is there a way.

Best Regards:
Royzewic

Lol...

This is an old, old, OLD issue. Like, about a decade old. It's a legacy of one of Oleg's super-mega-ultra-uber-performing Lavochkin FMs. The La-7s in particular were all but unstoppable. It was normal for AI (and even a live player in cases) to sustain high-speed bat turns and steep climbs without losing much energy at all. In addition, they were nearly indestructible. I can't count how many jokes were made about "Soviet Stronkest Delta Wood is Bestest!" in the old Ubi forums.

Believe it or not, what we have now is actually a toned-down version of the old Lavochkin's FM; it's not nearly as OP now as it used to be, though it is still quite formidable. In reality, the La-7 was a very strong and dynamic aircraft, more than a match in a dogfight against even the FW-190s. Not sure how well the relative performance between the two is represented in the sim, but now it is generally considered acceptable by many in the community (either that, or we simply got tired of making noise about it over the years lol), considering what Luftwaffles had to contend with before...

Sorry if that doesn't help your concerns, but I just thought it was a funny topic that brought up a lot of interesting memories and topics.

gaunt1 · #3 06-17-2014, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royzewic

Hi everyone and the Team! I experienced the Lavochkins are so... bugged or something, when they climbing vertical they still getting energy for 1-2 seconds, or don't lose any at least.
I'm playing IL-2 1946 since 3 years, told to myself -No, it cannot be- and other vulgar words in my language, but it's very annoying. So, please fix this flight model if is there a way.

Best Regards:
Royzewic

Also, it is impossible to stall/spin with La-5FN. It really looks like there is a strong bias towards Lavochkins, they are the only aircrafts in the game that still have that exaggerated flight models. From the russian side, Yaks are very well modeled (except Yak-9U, a little bit too fast), so Lavochkins should be fixed to match historical accuracy. There are quite detailed test reports available from NII VVS, these should be used as reference.

IceFire · #4 06-17-2014, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treetop64

Lol...

This is an old, old, OLD issue. Like, about a decade old. It's a legacy of one of Oleg's super-mega-ultra-uber-performing Lavochkin FMs. The La-7s in particular were all but unstoppable. It was normal for AI (and even a live player in cases) to sustain high-speed bat turns and steep climbs without losing much energy at all. In addition, they were nearly indestructible. I can't count how many jokes were made about "Soviet Stronkest Delta Wood is Bestest!" in the old Ubi forums.

Believe it or not, what we have now is actually a toned-down version of the old Lavochkin's FM; it's not nearly as OP now as it used to be, though it is still quite formidable. In reality, the La-7 was a very strong and dynamic aircraft, more than a match in a dogfight against even the FW-190s. Not sure how well the relative performance between the two is represented in the sim, but now it is generally considered acceptable by many in the community (either that, or we simply got tired of making noise about it over the years lol), considering what Luftwaffles had to contend with before...

Sorry if that doesn't help your concerns, but I just thought it was a funny topic that brought up a lot of interesting memories and topics.

Indeed, the situation was much worse and got quite a bit better. I think the G limit modelling implemented by TD had the largest effect on the aircraft as it can still technically perform the bat turn but it will break the airframe doing it. Also the German planes got some much needed love as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaunt1

Also, it is impossible to stall/spin with La-5FN. It really looks like there is a strong bias towards Lavochkins, they are the only aircrafts in the game that still have that exaggerated flight models. From the russian side, Yaks are very well modeled (except Yak-9U, a little bit too fast), so Lavochkins should be fixed to match historical accuracy. There are quite detailed test reports available from NII VVS, these should be used as reference.

I wouldn't mind a look at the La-5/7 series FM again. The problem with the La-5FN not stalling I believe is to do with elevator authority. Every other La-5/7 can pull quite a bit harder but also stall... so in some ways the La-5FN is a bit handicapped although in some ways its a benefit as it artificially prevents the pilot from stalling it seriously. It also reduces its peak ability.

gaunt1 · #5 06-18-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFire

I wouldn't mind a look at the La-5/7 series FM again. The problem with the La-5FN not stalling I believe is to do with elevator authority. Every other La-5/7 can pull quite a bit harder but also stall... so in some ways the La-5FN is a bit handicapped although in some ways its a benefit as it artificially prevents the pilot from stalling it seriously. It also reduces its peak ability.

Well, maybe you are right, but still, when I tested the maneuverability of the La-5FN, versus an ace AI A6M2, I couldnt outturn the Zero, but I definitely could keep up with it. In a red vs red test, Yaks had no chance in a turning fight vs La series. The Yak-3 was close, but still not enough. The La-5 was good, that cannot be denied, but not THAT good.

IceFire · #6 06-18-2014, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaunt1

Well, maybe you are right, but still, when I tested the maneuverability of the La-5FN, versus an ace AI A6M2, I couldnt outturn the Zero, but I definitely could keep up with it. In a red vs red test, Yaks had no chance in a turning fight vs La series. The Yak-3 was close, but still not enough. The La-5 was good, that cannot be denied, but not THAT good.

Somewhat unrelated may be the turn times being a little too low.

The trick with the Yak is that although it's a good turner (and generally gets better as the series goes on) the best turn speed is at a medium speed around 300 or 350kph. Keep it at that speed and you can out turn any opponent that the Yak is likely to face in a historic battle.

The La-5FN seems to turn well at more speeds... which may be an error. I'm not sure. It is a top performer which I wouldn't want to take away from it. But it would probably benefit from a close look.