Gun Convergance?

[swiss]

Originally Posted by SEE

Switch off 'Engine Overheating' in SP?
I would then be faced with that problem in MP and would not know how to deal with it.

Ok, then I suggest you handle it the way I do - don't fly offline at all.

[SEE]

LOL! I tried going on line far too soon and soon realised I was great 'cannon fodder' and a crap fighter pilot.....

I take your point though, you do learn a hell of lot in MP if you are prepared to be patient and tag onto the more experienced flyers and follow them. I balance my MP experience with lots of SP.

[klem]

SEE,

Virtually all the guys will tell you that 400-500m is way to much. Many of us use 200m, some 150, some 250. Those videos are really useful and well worth taking in but there's nothing like putting it into practice.

For online play try joining a Squad. They will help you out, train you and give you that all important cameraderie.

You can find Squads on the Ubisoft IL-2 forums (I don't think there's one here on 1C-Maddox but have a look). I haven't posted there for quite a while as we have a fairly strong squad already but we now have a few places available so you could visit our website if it interests you but I don't want to turn this into a Recruitment thread. For other Squads look at that Ubisoft IL-2 forum.

Our website is at
http://firebirds.2ndtaf.org.uk/

[kimosabi]

Originally Posted by SEE

LOL! I tried going on line far too soon and soon realised I was great 'cannon fodder' and a crap fighter pilot.....

That's what each and everyone of us went through when we started playing the game. It's a game where training, learning and skill/tactics really enhances your abilities in this game.

Just like klem said in his recruitment post, you won't be able to fly/kill efficiently without all the knowledge that is out there. Don't get too comfortable in SP though, AI cannot compare with a human pilot and they get very predictable after a while.

[SEE]

After 6 months of intense work my MP kill to death ratio has improved but not enough at around 2 to 8. I try not to make the same number of basic errors as I did when first going on MP and now fall victim in less 'humiliating' ways .

I hit the track record button and later analyze where I went wrong or how the guy in front evaded my guns - am I taking this too far I wonder?

Joining an on-line squadron and having the opportunity to further improve my skills sounds like a great idea. How do you communicate though - using a mic or by typing text? At the moment I am flying 'pit view servers' on MP with no comms as there is no one to actually talk to.

I currently have my MG's at around 200ft and cannons at 300ft and getting in closer but everyone is absolutely spot on regards chasing AI compared to MP.

[Splitter]

Talking about offline:

I really don't shoot at 400M, but the effects of different MG rounds at that range vary. A .50 cal still packs some punch at that range (that's about 440 yards). A rifle caliber like a .303 has already lost a lot of energy by then. Closer is always better.

I set MG's under 250M usually. With .303's, I set it at 200M.

I set cannon even closer around 150M for "kill shots". The muzzle velocity of cannon tends to be lower than that of MG's PLUS the projectile itself is heavier. Therefore, the "drop" on cannon is higher at a given range. So if you set everything at 400M, MG's and cannon, and fire both at the same time and if both are set at the same "height", the cannon shell should go under the target if the MG's are hitting. (note that I think IL-2 takes elevation into account when setting convergence, however)

Also remember that convergence is your optimum range. At double your convergence distance, the width of the "cone of fire" is the same as the distance between the MG's on your plane. The bullets have already converged and are now spreading out....think of the cone of fire as sort of an "X" if viewed from above. So, effectively, the spread of bullets is still reasonable at double your convergence.

The opposite is also true. If you set your convergence too far out, say 400M, when you get closer to a target your bullet streams will not have converged. You might have to fire at a near target with only one wing's worth of machine guns. At the right angle, a near plane can fly right between your bullet streams.

I am not sure that IL-2 takes "elevation" of guns into account, but I think it does. If I am flying aircraft that fire through the prop where convergence is not really much of a factor, I will set cannons at about twice the distance of MG's. Doing this, it "appears" that the extra drop of cannon rounds is compensated for. In other words, the trajectory of the cannon round is higher than the MG rounds. So if I set MG's to 250M and cannon to 500M, the rounds from both "merge" in height at about 250M. Seems that way at least.

I hope in SoW convergence can be set for each pair of guns. As an example, on a plane with 6 MG's in the wings, you could set the inside pair to converge at 150M, the middle pair at 200M, and the outer pair at 250M (or maybe vice versa). I know in some branches of service the pilot had some options.

I heard a P-51 pilot talking about his preference being for all bullets to pass through one small point at a given distance. He said other pilots liked more of a "spread", but one of his strengths was being a good marksman. In contrast, Richard Bong thought himself to be a poor marksman even though he flew a P-38 and so only opened fire at very close range where he "could not miss". More control over convergence would allow players to tune the cone of fire to their own style.

I have seen youtube videos of IL-2 pilots getting kills on deflection shots at distances approaching 500M. How they do it? I don't know

EDIT: I always fly with overheat "ON" now. It takes a lot more work and I know the AI is cheating, but managing the engine temp is a skill unto itself and, hopefully, will be modeled better in SoW.

Splitter

[Daniël]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Talking about offline:

I have seen youtube videos of IL-2 pilots getting kills on deflection shots at distances approaching 500M. How they do it? I don't know

Splitter

They just show us their lucky shots

Deflection shooting is learning, learning and learning. It isn't easy so you will need experience to make good deflection shots. It can be very usefull, but if you aren't good at it, it's a waste of ammo.

[kimosabi]

Originally Posted by SEE

After 6 months of intense work my MP kill to death ratio has improved but not enough at around 2 to 8. I try not to make the same number of basic errors as I did when first going on MP and now fall victim in less 'humiliating' ways .

I hit the track record button and later analyze where I went wrong or how the guy in front evaded my guns - am I taking this too far I wonder?

Joining an on-line squadron and having the opportunity to further improve my skills sounds like a great idea. How do you communicate though - using a mic or by typing text? At the moment I am flying 'pit view servers' on MP with no comms as there is no one to actually talk to.

I currently have my MG's at around 200ft and cannons at 300ft and getting in closer but everyone is absolutely spot on regards chasing AI compared to MP.

If I said there's actually a Virtual Combat School you can join that teaches you not only combat flight/maneuvers/tactics but takes you all the way from basic and pretty much teaches you all you need to learn, would you be interested?

All comms in IL-2 is mostly via TeamSpeak (TS2&TS3), using a mic. You can use the chatbar online as well but that's just too bodgy and can't compare to spoken communication at all.

No, you're not taking it too far BTW.

[klem]

Most Squads use Teamspeak 2 or Teamspeak 3 as do the Hyperlobby servers (many have their own TS)

Track analysis is a very usful way to see your errors if you can understand what you are seeing

Originally Posted by Splitter

Talking about offline:

....................

I set MG's under 250M usually. With .303's, I set it at 200M.

I set cannon even closer around 150M for "kill shots". The muzzle velocity of cannon tends to be lower than that of MG's PLUS the projectile itself is heavier. Therefore, the "drop" on cannon is higher at a given range. So if you set everything at 400M, MG's and cannon, and fire both at the same time and if both are set at the same "height", the cannon shell should go under the target if the MG's are hitting. (note that I think IL-2 takes elevation into account when setting convergence, however)

Splitter

No offence Splitter but both MG and Cannons merge at the same point if set. IL-2 caters for MG and Cannon convergence separately so if you set them both to 200m (~ yds) they both hit the same spot at convergence (apart drom some divergence/scatter that may be programmed in).

Settings like 200m are good for +/- 50m as the scatter before and after 200m isn't too much so absolute precision is best for maximum damage but give-or-take a little is fairly good too (you know, you start to fire just as getting into range and stop just beyond it).

With 200m conv, I also use the trick on a runaway target of firing at the top of the canopy at up to 400m if I want to get a few strikes to scare him into turning.

And I can hit something with a few rounds at up to 600m+ even in a turn by aiming a little higher and up to 5 fuselage lengths ahead on a crossing target. You get lots of scatter and you'll be surprised how often you do engine damage. It's not really "spray and pray", you are aiming for the result.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by klem

Most Squads use Teamspeak 2 or Teamspeak 3 as do the Hyperlobby servers (many have their own TS)

Track analysis is a very usful way to see your errors if you can understand what you are seeing



No offence Splitter but both MG and Cannons merge at the same point if set. IL-2 caters for MG and Cannon convergence separately so if you set them both to 200m (~ yds) they both hit the same spot at convergence (apart drom some divergence/scatter that may be programmed in).

Settings like 200m are good for +/- 50m as the scatter before and after 200m isn't too much so absolute precision is best for maximum damage but give-or-take a little is fairly good too (you know, you start to fire just as getting into range and stop just beyond it).

With 200m conv, I also use the trick on a runaway target of firing at the top of the canopy at up to 400m if I want to get a few strikes to scare him into turning.

And I can hit something with a few rounds at up to 600m+ even in a turn by aiming a little higher and up to 5 fuselage lengths ahead on a crossing target. You get lots of scatter and you'll be surprised how often you do engine damage. It's not really "spray and pray", you are aiming for the result.

So from what you are saying, convergence in IL-2 takes "elevation" into account. In other words, there is a vertical component as well as the obvious horizontal. Good to know.

Yeah, I've gotten long range hits but usually not much more effect than slowing the other plane down. I usually only try this in planes like the 109 where there is plenty of MG ammo and a squirt or two won't leave me short.

Splitter