Ta-152c

[Brain32]

Still, not even calculated data for 13lbs, probably because both Sabre engines couldn't handle 150 grade fuel as it's well documented in every book dealing with Tempests.
Sure they did tests with it, but engines couldn't deal with it, that's why full 11lbs came for SabreIIb which did not need 150 grade fuel for 11lbs.

[Al Schlageter]

Oh Brain, W/Cdr Roland Beamont had his Wing (3, 56, 486 Sqns) using 150 grade fuel and 11lb boost in July 1944.

Codex, nice chart but no Ta152 flew with the DB603L engine. The V 6, 7 and 8 used DB603E engines. Calculated numbers, they are.

[Brain32]

If that is from the same book I think it is, you will also notice that was only emergency period during V1 threat and that after that due to numerous problems they reverted back to 9lbs until ofcourse they got IIb engine upgrades which allowed 11lbs without use of 150 grade fuel...

[Codex]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

Codex, nice chart but no Ta152 flew with the DB603L engine. The V 6, 7 and 8 used DB603E engines. Calculated numbers, they are.

Which source are you quoting? Here is my reference (apologies for the shots, I don't have a scanner)

[Brain32]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

The Tempest should be the fastest aircraft by far at low altitude, but the game does not model the +11 and +13 boost models, only the lesser produced early model.

As far as the TA-152C is concerned, only a TINY number flew, (compared to the thousands of Tempests) so any complaints about it should be taken with a LARGE grain of salt.

First TA-152C is not more rare than Tempest +13, actually atleast for the TA-152C you can find some real data instead of anegdotal data for the Tempest+13, talking about grains of salt lol.
Also please do not make me laugh with "thousands of Tempests" statement, all Tempests together ever produced don't even reach 1500 and that's throughout the poduction including all models MkV and MkII and MkVI as later variants. Not to mention that if my memory serves me correctly there was about 800 MkV's produced ever, note - EVER, not just during the war. For comparision there was 1805 FW190D9's produced before the war ended.

[Al Schlageter]

You mean that calculated data for the DB603LA powered Ta152C?

Four prototypes of the Ta152C is a lot of a/c, be sure.

[Brain32]

Where did I say that's a lot?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Brain32

First TA-152C is not more rare than Tempest +13, actually atleast for the TA-152C you can find some real data instead of anegdotal data for the Tempest+13, talking about grains of salt lol.
Also please do not make me laugh with "thousands of Tempests" statement, all Tempests together ever produced don't even reach 1500 and that's throughout the poduction including all models MkV and MkII and MkVI as later variants. Not to mention that if my memory serves me correctly there was about 800 MkV's produced ever, note - EVER, not just during the war. For comparision there was 1805 FW190D9's produced before the war ended.

Actually there were over 1700 Tempests built, including the Tempest II's. Of course, only the Tempest V flew in combat, (801 built) but then, the TA-152C never saw combat either. 452 Tempest II's were finished prior to the end of WWII, compared to 4 TA-152C. They could have been rushed into combat, but the Allies were already well in control of the war in the air, so these aircraft were kept back for more comprehensive testing.

And who mentioned 190D9's? Certainly not me. Although by the way, many of those 1800+ D9's ended up stuck on factory floors and never made it to the Staffel, because of lack of transportation and fuel to get them to the airfields.

As far as real data for the higher boosted Tempest, does this look like 'anecdotal' data?:



394 mph at sea level. And that is a Sabre IIA engine at 3700 rpm. The game's Tempest barely does 376 mph.

The Sabre IIB with only +11 boost reved to 3850 rpm and produced more hp.



410 mph at 4500 ft. The game's Tempest does 381 mph, 29 mph (46kph) slower.

Even the +11 boost Tempest would wipe the floor at low and medium alts with the TA's, or D9's.

Charts courtesy of Mike William's site.

[Al Schlageter]

Actually there were over 1700 Tempests built, including the Tempest II's.

Not according to Thomas and Shores in their book 'The Typhoon and Tempest Story'. They have 1399 Tempests built.

Contract B12148/39 - 300 built - Tempest Mk V
Contract ACTF/1640/C.23(a) - 2 built - prototypes
Contract ACTF/1876/C.23(a) - 100 built - Tempest Mk V
Contract ACTF/1986/C.23(a) - 2 built - prototypes
Contract ACTF/2439/C.23(a) - 50 built - Tempest I, built as Tempest II
Contract ACTF/2438/C.23(a) - 100 built - Tempest II
Contract ACTF/1876/C.23(a) - 200 built - Tempest Mk V
Contract ACTF/1876/C.23(a) - 142 built - Tempest Mk VI
Contract ACTF/2438/C.23(a) - 302 built - Tempest Mk II
Contract ACTF/1876/C.23(a) - 201 built - Tempest Mk V

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

As far as the TA-152C is concerned, only a TINY number flew, (compared to the thousands of Tempests) so any complaints about it should be taken with a LARGE grain of salt.

As of December 1944, I see 84 Tempest with the 2nd Tactical Air Force, and 20 in Britain, 64/16 were servicable at the time, this including Squadron reserves (ie. RAF Sqns were issued 20 aircraft, but of these 12 flew missions, the rest were reserves).

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ov44-may45.jpg

Regarding +11 lbs boost on the Tempest, the transcript of an August 1944 RAF report has to say the following:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...g/rae1501.html

4. Description of Aircraft and Modifications

4.1 Tempest V (Sabre II.)

Considerable difficulty was experienced on this type of aircraft due to unserviceability. Three aircraft were received from Squadron.

The effect of improving the condition of the paintwork was measured on Tempest JN.783. This was a standard series I fighter aircraft (four 20 m.m. cannon projecting from the leading edge of the wing). The gun muzzles were sealed. There were blisters on top of the wings over each gun. A debris guard was fitted in the air intake.

The paintwork was in fairly poor condition. It was badly chipped along the leading edge of the wing. The wing surface was stripped for a distance of about 2 ft. back from the leading edge and repainted. The rest of the wing and aircraft surfaces were rubbed down only. The aircraft could have been maintained in this final condition without any great difficulty under squadron conditions.

During the test, the engine in this aircraft was giving only +7 ˝ lb./sq.in. boost and as a defect was subsequently found, J.N.738 was rejected for further tests at higher boost.

This aircraft was replaced by Tempest J.N.735 but, during the first flight, the engine caught fire and the aircraft had to be abandoned.

The effect of increasing the boost pressure was measured on Tempest J.N.763. This aircraft was a standard series I fighter aircraft, similar in quality of finish and in external equipment to J.N.738, described above, except that it did not possess a debris guard.

A new boost cam and capsule were fitted allowing an increase in boost pressure to +11 lb./sq.in. The 150 octane fuel was used.

Flights were made at +9, +10 and +10 ˝ lb./sq.in. boost respectively (3,700 r.p.m.) One flight at +11 lb./sq.in. boost was made but engine trouble was experienced and in the subsequent inspection, parts of the pistons and piston rings were found in the oil filters.

This documentation mentioned above

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/1.../appendixa.pdf

notes that at the end of the V-1 manace (September 1944) Tempest Squadrons reverted back to +9 lbs boost and 130 grade fuel.