P-51 Combat Tips and Tricks ( Dogfight Guide )

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

Are you saying that the FM does not model fuel usage properly - Come to think of it, it doesn't.. otherwise we'll have people stalling out of the sky second to none

Actually, there have been multiple posts and comments on various forums about this subject. You can go search ubi forum for instance or even google search. Even the game designer admitted that IL-2, being a 10yr old game, took a very primitive approach towards fuel management modeling. In the case of P-51, the game only models one big fuel tank; it does not distinguish between wing tanks and fuelsalage tank. As you fly and fuel drains, all the game does is subtract overall weight and prolly do a bit parallel shifting to aircraft's performance curves. But the matter of fact is that's far from accurate for a real life mustang. As I said before, two exactly same mustangs, one with 50gal in fuelsalage tank and another with 25gal each in wing tanks. Although they weigh the same their performances are vast different. But based on this particular game's modeling logics, their in-game performance will be exactly the same. If you own A2A Accu-sim p-51, which is a much more accurate portrait of real life pony than IL-2, you can do the test (just make sure you load more than 20gal in fuesalage tank; anything more than 20 will shift COG significantly). I believe DCS P-51 (FM is very similar to A2A one) can do the same although I am not 100% sure. Back in WWII, the standard procedure for P-51s on long range escort missions was to drain fuelsalage tank first, then drop tanks and wing tanks last. By the time they crossed the channel into France, their fuelsalage tank will be way below 20gal or even empty. And if they are engaged by LW at this moment onwards, they can simply dump the drop tanks and leave a clean and very manuverable plane to dogfight with enemy.

[K_Freddie]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Actually, there have been multiple posts and comments on various forums about this subject. You can go search ubi forum for instance or even google search. Even the game designer admitted that IL-2, being a 10yr old game, took a very primitive approach towards fuel management modeling. In the case of P-51, the game only models one big fuel tank; it does not distinguish between wing tanks and fuelsalage tank. As you fly and fuel drains, all the game does is subtract overall weight and prolly do a bit parallel shifting to aircraft's performance curves. But the matter of fact is that's far from accurate for a real life mustang. As I said before, two exactly same mustangs, one with 50gal in fuelsalage tank and another with 25gal each in wing tanks. Although they weigh the same their performances are vast different. But based on this particular game's modeling logics, their in-game performance will be exactly the same. If you own A2A Accu-sim p-51, which is a much more accurate portrait of real life pony than IL-2, you can do the test (just make sure you load more than 20gal in fuesalage tank; anything more than 20 will shift COG significantly). I believe DCS P-51 (FM is very similar to A2A one) can do the same although I am not 100% sure. Back in WWII, the standard procedure for P-51s on long range escort missions was to drain fuelsalage tank first, then drop tanks and wing tanks last. By the time they crossed the channel into France, their fuelsalage tank will be way below 20gal or even empty. And if they are engaged by LW at this moment onwards, they can simply dump the drop tanks and leave a clean and very manuverable plane to dogfight with enemy.

Yeah, I have DCS+P51, and am trying it out now. It looks like DCS is taking pointers from A2A, and the manual's much the same.
What I can say is that DCS is very good and IL2 good (especially for 10+yrs).
I'm a bit skeptical about the DCS P51 stall characteristics, but maybe I'm wrong as I don't own or fly a real one.

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

Yeah, I have DCS+P51, and am trying it out now. It looks like DCS is taking pointers from A2A, and the manual's much the same.
What I can say is that DCS is very good and IL2 good (especially for 10+yrs).
I'm a bit skeptical about the DCS P51 stall characteristics, but maybe I'm wrong as I don't own or fly a real one.

Is the DCS stall characteristics better or worse than that of IL-2? Just curious, cuz I don't own one.

[K_Freddie]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Is the DCS stall characteristics better or worse than that of IL-2? Just curious, cuz I don't own one.

P51- It's too mild for my liking.. you really have to be dumb to put it into a spin.
When you stall, centralising controls, it literally recovers by itself.. for a HP WW2 aircraft this doesn't seem right.There's a big margin of shaking before it finally stalls.. fluttering away like crazy. If you're gentle with it it flies like a dream and is fast. In DCS you really have to fly it fast to get the best out of it.
The AI is impossible, but I hear it uses the same FM as the user ... and it doesn't make unforced errors. . It's a real challenge to even get near it - you learn fast.

Maybe my stick setup is not right (I'm not sure where to set it up yet).
Still working on it.

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

P51- It's too mild for my liking.. you really have to be dumb to put it into a spin.
When you stall, centralising controls, it literally recovers by itself.. for a HP WW2 aircraft this doesn't seem right.There's a big margin of shaking before it finally stalls.. fluttering away like crazy. If you're gentle with it it flies like a dream and is fast. In DCS you really have to fly it fast to get the best out of it.
The AI is impossible, but I hear it uses the same FM as the user ... and it doesn't make unforced errors. . It's a real challenge to even get near it - you learn fast.

Maybe my stick setup is not right (I'm not sure where to set it up yet).
Still working on it.

Man, it sounds like my plane. Too bad DCS p-51 is just a one-plane show. If it had been something with a decent campagin with other non-flyable WWII planes, I would not have hesitated to buy it. I really wish they set up a differnt world (call it DCS WWII world or something) for WWII planes instead of stuffing it in modern era.

[K_Freddie]

Put it to you this way..
I (and many others) have put 10 years into IL2.. with DCS I feel like a noob... having to learn to fly sims all again.

- You have to know all your dials, bells and switches.
- You have to know your engine (you'll blow the engine anywhere between startup.. and 10 minutes). EM is crucial here, especially in a DF.
- and of course how to fly the thing to it's advantage

This P51 has little quirks of maneuvering - it not a matter of pointing the nose and shoot at the target as in IL2.. everytime you turn, roll etc.. RL secondary forces are real here and your nose bobs all over the sky. I don't have rudders or a decent input system yet, so cannot control these forces... but its a plane that feels loose in the sky - you have to let it fly itself.

I'll make a vid.